Vampire Question

Akisohida · October 2023

Is Vampire worth doing as an Arcanist?
It looks almost like a melee class, same as Werewolf. Granted, it, at least, has skills that scale off Magika.

...Which raises another question; if Stamina raises the damage of any Stamina-costing skill, and Majika raises the damage of Magika-costing skills...Does Health raise the damage of vampire skills the cost Health?

virtus753 · October 2023

Akisohida wrote: »

...Which raises another question; if Stamina raises the damage of any Stamina-costing skill, and Majika raises the damage of Magika-costing skills...Does Health raise the damage of vampire skills the cost Health?

Stamina and magicka do not raise the damage of different skills based on cost.

Your max offensive resource is used to calculate the damage of offensive skills, regardless of cost, along with the higher of your weapon or spell damage. Your max health is used to calculate the power of certain other skills (all marked in the tooltip - it will say “scales with Max Health”).

So on a stamina templar my Radiant Glory scales with my max stamina because that is higher than my max magicka, even though the skill always costs mag. For a magplar it would scale off magicka.

Tyrant_Tim · October 2023

For being a Vampire, it depends…

If you enjoy PvP, that Undeath passive is extremely strong.
If you enjoy PvE, it doesn’t have any strengths right now, outside of being a tool for skipping adds at Stage 4, and your sustain as an Arcanist is pretty bad so it’s not generally a good trade-off.

Unfortunately, in regards to the Vampire skills, raising your health will increase the effectiveness of the tether’s heal, and will allow you to stay at a lower health threshold for longer before dying, to increase the damage of Arterial Burst… not much else.

Although, Vampire as a whole needs a revamp to make it truly an option worth picking if you want to do anything competitive PvE related, but if you plan to just mess around in Overland, or roleplay, feel free, as it’s fun to try to theorycraft with it.

Akisohida · October 2023

virtus753 wrote: »

Akisohida wrote: »

...Which raises another question; if Stamina raises the damage of any Stamina-costing skill, and Majika raises the damage of Magika-costing skills...Does Health raise the damage of vampire skills the cost Health?

Stamina and magicka do not raise the damage of different skills based on cost.

Your max offensive resource is used to calculate the damage of offensive skills, regardless of cost, along with the higher of your weapon or spell damage. Your max health is used to calculate the power of certain other skills (all marked in the tooltip - it will say “scales with Max Health”).

So on a stamina templar my Radiant Glory scales with my max stamina because that is higher than my max magicka, even though the skill always costs mag. For a magplar it would scale off magicka.

Wait...So if my Runeblades is cast off Majika, but if Stamina and Weapon damage were higher than Majika & Spell Damage; It would calculate based on Weapon+Stam?

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

For being a Vampire, it depends…
If you enjoy PvP, that Undeath passive is extremely strong.

If you enjoy PvE, it doesn’t have any strengths right now, outside of being a tool for skipping adds at Stage 4, and your sustain as an Arcanist is pretty bad so it’s not generally a good trade-off.

Unfortunately, in regards to the Vampire skills, raising your health will increase the effectiveness of the tether’s heal, and will allow you to stay at a lower health threshold for longer before dying, to increase the damage of Arterial Burst… not much else.

Although, Vampire as a whole needs a revamp to make it truly an option worth picking if you want to do anything competitive PvE related, but if you plan to just mess around in Overland, or roleplay, feel free, as it’s fun to try to theorycraft with it.

Well dang. I hope it gets reworked. Would be neat if it were caster-like, as Werewolf is Melee-like.

EdjeSwift · October 2023

The one nice thing about Vampire is that you don't need to do anything special to level up the skill line, as long as you're a vampire it just passively levels without needing to put anything on your bar. The only negative is a little less health regen and a slight increase in skill cost.

For most major content PvE wise it's not worth running, but if you're just out to have fun there's a lot to be had.

Plus with two armoury slots, you can always tuck away the bite in your extra slot in case a friend needs/wants a bite.

virtus753 · October 2023

Akisohida wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Akisohida wrote: »

...Which raises another question; if Stamina raises the damage of any Stamina-costing skill, and Majika raises the damage of Magika-costing skills...Does Health raise the damage of vampire skills the cost Health?

Stamina and magicka do not raise the damage of different skills based on cost.

Your max offensive resource is used to calculate the damage of offensive skills, regardless of cost, along with the higher of your weapon or spell damage. Your max health is used to calculate the power of certain other skills (all marked in the tooltip - it will say “scales with Max Health”).

So on a stamina templar my Radiant Glory scales with my max stamina because that is higher than my max magicka, even though the skill always costs mag. For a magplar it would scale off magicka.

Wait...So if my Runeblades is cast off Majika, but if Stamina and Weapon damage were higher than Majika & Spell Damage; It would calculate based on Weapon+Stam?

Yes. That is what the devs call hybridization. They converted the vast majority of skills to do this with Ascending Tide/Update 33:

“Player abilities that scale with your offensive stats, such as Weapon Damage and Max Stamina, will now dynamically scale with the highest of your offensive stats.”

It also takes the higher of your weapon or spell critical chance (except bash, which takes only your weapon critical chance - likely bugged).

Akisohida · October 2023

virtus753 wrote: »

Akisohida wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Akisohida wrote: »

...Which raises another question; if Stamina raises the damage of any Stamina-costing skill, and Majika raises the damage of Magika-costing skills...Does Health raise the damage of vampire skills the cost Health?

Stamina and magicka do not raise the damage of different skills based on cost.

Your max offensive resource is used to calculate the damage of offensive skills, regardless of cost, along with the higher of your weapon or spell damage. Your max health is used to calculate the power of certain other skills (all marked in the tooltip - it will say “scales with Max Health”).

So on a stamina templar my Radiant Glory scales with my max stamina because that is higher than my max magicka, even though the skill always costs mag. For a magplar it would scale off magicka.

Wait...So if my Runeblades is cast off Majika, but if Stamina and Weapon damage were higher than Majika & Spell Damage; It would calculate based on Weapon+Stam?

Yes. That is what the devs call hybridization. They converted the vast majority of skills to do this with Ascending Tide/Update 33:

“Player abilities that scale with your offensive stats, such as Weapon Damage and Max Stamina, will now dynamically scale with the highest of your offensive stats.”

It also takes the higher of your weapon or spell critical chance (except bash, which takes only your weapon critical chance - likely bugged).

Thank you for the info.

Vulkunne · October 2023

I think perhaps a better question here is which class is best for WW?

WW Is not in the best place atm. Generally speaking DK or Sorc is pretty solid for WW because their class passives support it best. Maybe DK more than anything else but I digress.

For me at least if there is not a specific readily identifiable opportunity to go WW I simply go Vamp and make it work. As others have said, Vamp undeath passive is great and fits in well with Arcanist passives also.

Shagreth · October 2023

No, vampirism sucks. Only useful for Undeath in PvP, and that is the only objective truth. Feel free to play for flavor, but you're basically gimping yourself for free.

Erickson9610 · October 2023

Vulkunne wrote: »

I think perhaps a better question here is which class is best for WW?

WW Is not in the best place atm. Generally speaking DK or Sorc is pretty solid for WW because their class passives support it best. Maybe DK more than anything else but I digress.

For me at least if there is not a specific readily identifiable opportunity to go WW I simply go Vamp and make it work. As others have said, Vamp undeath passive is great and fits in well with Arcanist passives also.

For Werewolf, I'd recommend Templar and Sorcerer. Those two classes will net you the best DPS on the trial dummy compared to any other class, with Templar pulling ahead slightly more than Sorcerer on longer parses, while Sorcerer is more powerful for shorter parses.

You can make the other Class Werewolves work, but most of the other classes don't have many passives which carry over into form. Dragonknight Werewolves are pretty unique because they get immense sustain when built for dealing flame and poison damage (such as on dual wield glyphs), and Necromancer Werewolves have increased DoT damage, which synergizes well with Werewolf's toolkit.

The only Class Werewolf I wouldn't recommend is Warden, due to how few of their passives work in-form. Though, if you're playing solo, keep in mind that Warden Werewolves are the only ones able to proc their own class buff. Arcanist Werewolves have some recovery buffs, but if you're going for a recovery-focused Werewolf build, you're better off going with a Nightblade Werewolf instead to take advantage of some of their other useful passives.

Trejgon · October 2023

Akisohida wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Wait...So if my Runeblades is cast off Majika, but if Stamina and Weapon damage were higher than Majika & Spell Damage; It would calculate based on Weapon+Stam?

I will use a moment to point out, that runeblades always use your highest resource as a cost, so if your stamina is higher than your magicka, runeblades will both scale off of stamina, and cost stamina.

But wether it will use spell power or weapon power ontop of your top resource, will depend on which one is higher.

So if your highest offensive stats are stamina and spell power, runeblades will use stamina and spell power.

On a side note, ability to gain either spell power or weapon power, without getting equivalent amount of the other stat is being consistently patched out, so in general, both of these numbers should be equal.

Vevvev · October 2023

If sustain is ever an issue vampire's Blood for Blood ability (morphed from Eviscerate) is a pretty decent ability. Just be aware it requires self healing, cuts off outside healing for 3 seconds after each cast, and only really starts being better than other options when you're low health.
So it's something you'll most likely slot if A: You're fine fighting in melee, and B: you're comfortable with the downsides to using health as a resource and making your healer's life a little harder.

El_Borracho · October 2023

@Vevvev I remember that brief moment when Blood for Blood was a semi-viable damage skill in PVE. Never liked it, the downsides to being a vampire outweighed the damage, and healers HATED trying to heal a bunch of vampires in vet trials.

Other than PVP, I don't think there is a place for vampires in PVE right now. At all. You'd be better off with a regen glyph than vampirism.

ZOS_Hadeostry · October 2023

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's asking the community for assistance.

Thank you for your understanding

Vevvev · October 2023

El_Borracho wrote: »

@Vevvev I remember that brief moment when Blood for Blood was a semi-viable damage skill in PVE. Never liked it, the downsides to being a vampire outweighed the damage, and healers HATED trying to heal a bunch of vampires in vet trials.

Other than PVP, I don't think there is a place for vampires in PVE right now. At all. You'd be better off with a regen glyph than vampirism.

Maybe, but granted my perceptions are skewed as I'm typically the group healer, and I mostly focused on solo content. So the builds I tended to go with were self sufficient or were designed around group buffs and healing with a side dosage of DPS.

Blood for Blood on a healer is actually surprisingly very good as it is something you can do to hurt your opponents while your heals are ticking and your set effects are going. Only issue is it's melee ranged as it has gotten me in trouble on more than one occasion, but the fact it helps with magicka sustain is pretty nice.

El_Borracho · October 2023

@Vevvev I was talking about the time when BFB was "good" on a Mag DK DD. Never tried it as a healer

Necrotech_Master · October 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

For being a Vampire, it depends…
If you enjoy PvP, that Undeath passive is extremely strong.

If you enjoy PvE, it doesn’t have any strengths right now, outside of being a tool for skipping adds at Stage 4, and your sustain as an Arcanist is pretty bad so it’s not generally a good trade-off.

Unfortunately, in regards to the Vampire skills, raising your health will increase the effectiveness of the tether’s heal, and will allow you to stay at a lower health threshold for longer before dying, to increase the damage of Arterial Burst… not much else.

Although, Vampire as a whole needs a revamp to make it truly an option worth picking if you want to do anything competitive PvE related, but if you plan to just mess around in Overland, or roleplay, feel free, as it’s fun to try to theorycraft with it.

ive never really had issues with sustain on an arcanist lol

im primarily stam focused and using 2 cost reduction glyphs (to make the beam 0 cost) i rarely ever run out of stamina, i usually have a bit more issue with magicka as my pool is smaller and a lot of my buffs are mag cost

for the OP, vampire is kind of a niche gameplay right now, some of the skills are alright, but most of them are not really any better than anything else

pvp wise vampirism is popular purely for the undeath passive, not the skills lol