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Do you think PvP should have role buffs & debuffs?
BenTSG
✭✭✭✭
Lets make this a poll for ZoS to see the numbers
(Although I have doubts they'll actually care, it'll be fun to see responses anyways)
So I had a thought, what if PvP played on roles a little more and gave them buffs and debuffs? Something like, when Battle Spirit is active, Tanks have uncapped HP and armour, capped damage, and can only self heal (maybe at a slight cap). DD's could have a cap on HP and armour, no damage cap, but can only self heal (maybe a little less then tank), and Healer's might have capped HP, uncapped armour, but have uncapped healing and can cross heal. Roles can be changed inside a unflagged keep or home base.
'Course, these are all hyperthetical ideas for what sort of buffs and debuffs each role could get and not at all a hard "This should be it", just something as an example for the concept. So, do you think PvP should include role based buffs and debuffs?
(Forgive any mistakes, I'm having to use the 'Full Site' on my phone so ce apparently polls don't work on mobile version of the site, and I'm bored at work)
(Although I have doubts they'll actually care, it'll be fun to see responses anyways)
So I had a thought, what if PvP played on roles a little more and gave them buffs and debuffs? Something like, when Battle Spirit is active, Tanks have uncapped HP and armour, capped damage, and can only self heal (maybe at a slight cap). DD's could have a cap on HP and armour, no damage cap, but can only self heal (maybe a little less then tank), and Healer's might have capped HP, uncapped armour, but have uncapped healing and can cross heal. Roles can be changed inside a unflagged keep or home base.
'Course, these are all hyperthetical ideas for what sort of buffs and debuffs each role could get and not at all a hard "This should be it", just something as an example for the concept. So, do you think PvP should include role based buffs and debuffs?
(Forgive any mistakes, I'm having to use the 'Full Site' on my phone so ce apparently polls don't work on mobile version of the site, and I'm bored at work)
Do you think PvP should have role buffs & debuffs? 41 votes
Yes, I agree with the concept
19%
8 votes
No, I disagree with the concept.
78%
32 votes
Other
2%
1 vote
1
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AstroST✭✭✭✭✭Have you been in Cyro recently?
Is just people usinge those proc sets.
Yesterday there was an entire group of sorcs with the cheesy build.
In my opinion PVP in ESO is just dead.5 -
BenTSG✭✭✭✭Have you been in Cyro recently?
Is just people usinge those proc sets.
Yesterday there was an entire group of sorcs with the cheesy build.
In my opinion PVP in ESO is just dead.
I have, and unfortunately I'd have to agree with you on that. PvP is a state. Ravenwatch is fun, though pretty quiet it seems which sucks. I don't trust ZoS to ever make a proper attempt at balance outside of skills and new sets that never fix the problem, but it's at least fun to see what people think about things, if nothing else0 -
Artim_X✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, I disagree with the concept.PvP is like solo arenas, you should build with all three roles in mind, while being mindful that going too far in any one direction can have negative consequences (ex: tanky without damage, high damage but made of paper, strong heals/utility but need a group to shine, etc.)(AD) Artim X/Xirtām/Måtrix |PC/NA| Casual staff wielding vampire sorcerer/templar/arcanistElectric-Stunhttps://media.giphy.com/media/Av0zcKH3i2BkaY1GXW/giphy.gif/https://c.tenor.com/jQHdFftrgwMAAAAC/tenor.gifElectric-Pets- Roleplay Damage Dealing Build.
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (infused/shock enchant), and Kinras's jewelry (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused/flame/weapon damage enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Boundless Storm, Mages' Wrath, Lightning Flood, Shocking Soul (Shock damage, Class Mastery Signature Script, and Empower), and Power Overload.
- Ability-Bar 2: Storm Pulsar, Streak, Shock Reach, Unstable Wall of Storms, Shocking Burst (Shock Damage, remove 1 negative effect, and interrupt) and Thunderous Rage.
Solo: Use Kinras's chest, replace Mora with Ring of the Pale Order, and use a heavy Slimcraw piece for max critical.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNHVjemwxZHI2ZmQ2bTg1ZG0xOTZ3b2QwajBzNGxmaHh6OXRpN3p6YSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/eBgWizk5dmZRS/giphy.gifElectric-Heal- Stress free one bar pet build .
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants. No chest piece), 1 medium Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, medium, Max Mag Enchants), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant ring and necklace (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant), Oakensoul ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)
- Ability-Bar: Daedric Prey, Summon Volatile Familiar, Bound Armaments, Unstable Wall of Storms, Summon Twilight Matriarch, and Greater storm Atronach.
https://media.giphy.com/media/5ibGIHneWS6ek/giphy.gifElectric-Ward- My Healer Build.
- Gear: 5 Spell Power Cure (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (Charged/shock enchant), and Infallible Aether jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/restoration staff (Powered with absorb magicka enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Blessing of Restoration, Energy Orb, Twilight Matriarch, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Dark Deal, Overflowing Altar, Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Twilight Matriarch, and Aggressive Horn.
https://media.giphy.com/media/Wa0TGmtDvwW3e/giphy.gifElectric-Vamp- My Meme Tank Build that uses high resistance and variety of wards.
- Gear: 5 Brands of Imperium (All body pieces except Head and Shoulders, with Divine trait, and with Prismatic Defense Enchants), full Iceheart (1 light and 1 medium. Divines and Prismatic Enchant), and Combat Physician jewelry (bloodthirsty with Prismatic Recovery Enchants), Combat Physician restoration staff (Infused with hardening enchant), and combat physician ice staff (Infused with crusher enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Bound Aegis, Deep Thoughts, Boundless Storm, Healing Ward, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Silver Leash (Elemental Drain if healer isn't running it), Bound Aegis, Frost Clench, Blockade of Frost, Empowered Ward, and Temporal Guard.
https://media.giphy.com/media/ukDQiYZzRAxMZKcK86/giphy.gifDawnfang- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (medium chest and body pieces light. All Impenetrable with Prismatic Enchants). Gaze of Sithis and 1 light Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton (light shoulders, and impenetrable with Prismtaic Enchants). Knight Slayer (Swift with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused with oblivion enchant)/restoration staff (infused with oblivion enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm, Soul Splitting Trap, Radiating Regeneration, Healing Ward, and Life Giver.
- Ability-Bar 2: Drain Vigor (Elemental Susceptibility), Race Against Time, Rune Cage, Radiant Magelight, Regenerative Ward, and Shatter Soul.
https://media.tenor.com/ogWfvDdsqBIAAAAd/anime-black-clover.gifDuskfang- My casual one bar heavy attack Templar build that primarily utilizes Aedric Spear abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Puncturing Sweep, Aurora Javelin, Toppling Charge, Blazing Spear, Radiant Ward/Breath of life, and Crescent Sweep.
https://media.tenor.com/Jo8aG_ouy_oAAAAd/ac-odyssey.gifEye of the Queen- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Radiant Oppression, Race Against Time, Aurora Javelin, Breath of Life, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/44/1c/fd441c8242af6ec35ada94496feb0901.gifEye of the King- My casual one bar heavy attack Arcanist build that primarily utilizes Herald of the Tome abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Pragmatic Fatecarver, Cephaliarch's Flail, Rune of Displacement, Inspired Scholarship/Evolving Runemend, and The Languid Eye.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExOTAzdjV1eTgwbDFmM3lrZmxuMXRqdDR3Y3h1ZDRpajR0M3VjZzQ3NSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/zXmbOaTpbY6mA/giphy.gifPvE Starter Gear- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Race Against Time, Rune of Uncanny Adoration, Evolving Runemend, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gifRace- Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
- Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gifMundus Stones- High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gifCurrent Champion Points- PvP: The Steed for speed. Gotta go fast!
- PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
- PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gifFavorite Foods and Potions- DPS: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
- PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- PvP Temp/Arcanist: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif- Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
- Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
- Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
- Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar/arcanist will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
1 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, I disagree with the concept.No, there doesn't need to be specific roles (and associated buffs/debuffs) applied to PvP.
What needs to happen is the classes be brought closer together in terms of power while keeping their strengths and weaknesses so that we have a true rock, paper, scissors meta like we used to have 6 years ago where 1 week sorc was king for its mobility until more nb logged in and outright burst the sorcs down, but then the following week people would log into dk to tank through nb burst then the week after that would be plars to out heal and counter the dks then the following week was sorcs again for their mobility to beat plars.
It kept the meta fresh and fun since you were always up against different classes and at times you would be ahead of the meta and wreck everyone then next minute you were behind and getting wrecked.
Now its just DK ahead of every other class except NB and every other class is just masters DW and vate destro since that specific proc combo is the only way the other classes can keep up.0 -
edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭No, I disagree with the concept.This goes against the core idea of the game.
Its been almost a decade since the game has been out and it has grown around the original core concept of play how you want rather than having strict roles and a class system.
Now is too late to be changing that for just about nothing to gain and a lot to lose.
There is already balance in the sense you have to make choices between defense, offense and sustain.Edited by edward_frigidhands on October 2, 2023 8:26AM0 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, I disagree with the concept.I don't want to have debuffs imposed, but the act of character creation should force choices that would emulate this request anyway. And it does not. I do agree that this is a problem.
Main culprit? Healing scaling with weapon damage. The person who does the most damage also heals for the most and that's pretty dumb in my opinion.2 -
DrNukenstein✭✭✭✭✭I think they can achieve the same results less intrusively by reducing base stats through battle spirit while leaving invested stats unadjusted.2
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edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭No, I disagree with the concept.DrNukenstein wrote: »I think they can achieve the same results less intrusively by reducing base stats through battle spirit while leaving invested stats unadjusted.
Adjusting stats differently for PvP and further dividing how PvP and PvE function is bad game design and will lead to 2 isolated games that continue to bend away from each other and are difficult to keep up with balancing.
ZOS does not have the resources to do this and neither should they because the results are not going to be conducive to having a complete connected game that people want to play.
If there is an issue, the best way to address it is through introduction of new sets or balancing of the ones that exist. The solutions need to be targeted rather than blanket bandage fixes that break more than they fix.1 -
Marcus684✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, I disagree with the concept.I'm not a fan of the strict DD/tank/healer roles and don't want to see it imposed on PvP. I'd rather ZOS do a better job designing around the idea that you have to sacrifice survivability to increase damage output and vice versa.2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, I disagree with the concept.It would not make sense because ESO does not have true roles in PvP. This is not that type of game.
I am so glad this game is not ridged like WoW and FF14.
Edited by Amottica on October 4, 2023 7:20PM1 -
DrNukenstein✭✭✭✭✭edward_frigidhands wrote: »
Adjusting stats differently for PvP and further dividing how PvP and PvE function is bad game design and will lead to 2 isolated games that continue to bend away from each other and are difficult to keep up with balancing.
ZOS does not have the resources to do this and neither should they because the results are not going to be conducive to having a complete connected game that people want to play.
If there is an issue, the best way to address it is through introduction of new sets or balancing of the ones that exist. The solutions need to be targeted rather than blanket bandage fixes that break more than they fix.
I'm gonna have to contend that point.
We get so many free stats. Which is great for PVE/single player purposes. Before making any exclusive build decisions, a levelled toon with unlocked passives and relevant cp has about 60% of a full damage dealers damage if they choose to do it. They also have comfortable pools for doing that damage. Since tool tip increases are linear, and scaling isn't great players in PVP are incentivized to push their damage to a particular margin then put everything else into anything else. If this isn't the root of the tank/do it all meta, then it's at least very close to it.
Now what if everyone's free 15k mag/stam, 1000 damage, and 500 sustain was cut in half? Well, everyone would have to specialize to do anything. You would need points in your pools and a sustain investment to not run out of juice after 6 seconds of fighting. You would need more than Markyn and Rallying Cry to do damage on any class. You could still be immortal, but you wouldn't have the oomph to turn tables on anyone. An adjustment like that could totally be tied to battle spirit, and would greatly increase the expression of build decisions which IMO is what PVP is all about.3 -
edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭No, I disagree with the concept.DrNukenstein wrote: »edward_frigidhands wrote: »
Adjusting stats differently for PvP and further dividing how PvP and PvE function is bad game design and will lead to 2 isolated games that continue to bend away from each other and are difficult to keep up with balancing.
ZOS does not have the resources to do this and neither should they because the results are not going to be conducive to having a complete connected game that people want to play.
If there is an issue, the best way to address it is through introduction of new sets or balancing of the ones that exist. The solutions need to be targeted rather than blanket bandage fixes that break more than they fix.
I'm gonna have to contend that point.
Stats need to be uniform across both PvP and PvE. If you feel that they need to be adjusted then alright that should be the discussion. Having entire different stat sheets for PvP and PvE is a pandora's box that ZOS devs and the players that remain are not prepared for.Edited by edward_frigidhands on October 17, 2023 8:28AM0
