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LFG is crazy toxic. Why?
OgreLeg
Soul Shriven
I've been playing ESO off and on again for a long time now. I don't remember this being a thing a few years ago but it has definitely been a thing for at least 2 years now and it's only so noticeable because everyone outside of LFG dungeon finder seems friendly and helpful. Once you click "ready" on that random dungeon finder queue, though, you step into a totally different world.
I can't imagine what it must be like for new players. You zone in and everyone is already gone, running at a break-neck pace to blast past any trash mobs and just dive on boss after boss because god forbid a dungeon run take seven minutes when it can take five.
There's no one to help you if you haven't been able to learn the dungeon layouts because everyone keeps sprinting through as fast as possible. You will be left behind. You will lose out on the quest you were trying to complete. You will lose out on the loot you came looking for. You will lose out on any ability to test your builds. No time to read bookshelves for skill points. No time to check crates for mats. No time to pick locks on chests. Just go go go or risk getting rage-kicked from the group.
You zone into a dungeon and the tank asks "does everyone know the mechanics?" and you better not speak up. Tell the truth with a "first time here" and the tank leaves group, screwing over everyone else. Then you get to sit with a debuff because you had to leave a dead group.
You're running heals and everyone runs 100 yards ahead of you, dives into a fight immediately, and they die before you can even get in range to pop a heal. That's your fault. The speed-team rages out you, something about "fake heals", and you have to start an altercation to put them in their place as the idiot who ran ahead and stood in red carpet.
You're running heals and the tank is new and/or trying something new. The tank is squishy so they die but you finish the boss with zero wipes. No harm no foul. All's well that ends well. Or is it? No. Because half the group is screaming "I hate fake tanks" and popping rage-kick votes on the poor guy (in this example the tank is literally begging for forgiveness and trying to explain themselves). Then you have to be the one to tell everyone to stop being and you finish the dungeon just fine, zero wipes, but the angry kids rage out anyway. Everyone acts like they were never new.
You're grinding for a particular set piece and you've been at it for hours. You finally get the drop but your inventory is full. You quickly dig into your bag and junk something to make room. As you reach into the loot drop for your set piece the words "Joining Encounter in Progress" appear and you are whisked away from your loot to the next fight which happens to be over the edge of a dropoff so you can't get back to the loot you needed after the dungeon ends.
Mind you, these normal dungeons. I'm not even talking veteran. I can go on and on with more examples but I think you get the point.
Now, I know the argument... "people been playing forever and just want to grind". Frankly, I don't like that excuse but it's a legit argument and I can't lie and say it's not. Yet that doesn't explain the crappy attitude I keep encountering over and over. I think most people hide behind that argument when in reality they mean "Dude, shut up. I don't care about anyone else around me. Just me, me, me, mine, mine."
If we don't have to fight the trash mobs or navigate the dungeons then why are they there? Just develop a single dungeon comprised of room after room of boss fights and let the impatient people grind that over and over. As of right now, the LFG experience is really off-putting. If I were a new player, I wouldn't stick around. As it stands, I already have a lot of time and money invested so I'll continue to pop in and out.
Maybe someday I'll figure out how to not die in 2 hits in PvP and then I won't have to worry about LFG dungeons anymore.
I really hope someone at Bethesda sees this. Try it for yourself. Queue for like 3 or 4 dungeons back to back and tell me if you run one where any of this doesn't happen.
Edited by ZOS_Hadeostry on October 1, 2023 3:39AM I can't imagine what it must be like for new players. You zone in and everyone is already gone, running at a break-neck pace to blast past any trash mobs and just dive on boss after boss because god forbid a dungeon run take seven minutes when it can take five.
There's no one to help you if you haven't been able to learn the dungeon layouts because everyone keeps sprinting through as fast as possible. You will be left behind. You will lose out on the quest you were trying to complete. You will lose out on the loot you came looking for. You will lose out on any ability to test your builds. No time to read bookshelves for skill points. No time to check crates for mats. No time to pick locks on chests. Just go go go or risk getting rage-kicked from the group.
You zone into a dungeon and the tank asks "does everyone know the mechanics?" and you better not speak up. Tell the truth with a "first time here" and the tank leaves group, screwing over everyone else. Then you get to sit with a debuff because you had to leave a dead group.
You're running heals and everyone runs 100 yards ahead of you, dives into a fight immediately, and they die before you can even get in range to pop a heal. That's your fault. The speed-team rages out you, something about "fake heals", and you have to start an altercation to put them in their place as the idiot who ran ahead and stood in red carpet.
You're running heals and the tank is new and/or trying something new. The tank is squishy so they die but you finish the boss with zero wipes. No harm no foul. All's well that ends well. Or is it? No. Because half the group is screaming "I hate fake tanks" and popping rage-kick votes on the poor guy (in this example the tank is literally begging for forgiveness and trying to explain themselves). Then you have to be the one to tell everyone to stop being and you finish the dungeon just fine, zero wipes, but the angry kids rage out anyway. Everyone acts like they were never new.
You're grinding for a particular set piece and you've been at it for hours. You finally get the drop but your inventory is full. You quickly dig into your bag and junk something to make room. As you reach into the loot drop for your set piece the words "Joining Encounter in Progress" appear and you are whisked away from your loot to the next fight which happens to be over the edge of a dropoff so you can't get back to the loot you needed after the dungeon ends.
Mind you, these normal dungeons. I'm not even talking veteran. I can go on and on with more examples but I think you get the point.
Now, I know the argument... "people been playing forever and just want to grind". Frankly, I don't like that excuse but it's a legit argument and I can't lie and say it's not. Yet that doesn't explain the crappy attitude I keep encountering over and over. I think most people hide behind that argument when in reality they mean "Dude, shut up. I don't care about anyone else around me. Just me, me, me, mine, mine."
If we don't have to fight the trash mobs or navigate the dungeons then why are they there? Just develop a single dungeon comprised of room after room of boss fights and let the impatient people grind that over and over. As of right now, the LFG experience is really off-putting. If I were a new player, I wouldn't stick around. As it stands, I already have a lot of time and money invested so I'll continue to pop in and out.
Maybe someday I'll figure out how to not die in 2 hits in PvP and then I won't have to worry about LFG dungeons anymore.
I really hope someone at Bethesda sees this. Try it for yourself. Queue for like 3 or 4 dungeons back to back and tell me if you run one where any of this doesn't happen.
12
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Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This is mostly a thing in normal dungeons and it's because that's where people go to farm transmute and gear and they get away with it because the damage isn't high enough to kill them. I would rather do a vet DLC dungeon with 2 bad dps and a bad healer than do a random normal where people speedrun it. Hopefully the group finder helps with this problem.PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
- Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
- Trials: 9/12 HMs - 3/8 Tris
- Dungeons: 30/30 HMs - 24/24 Tris
- All Veterans completed!
View my builds!
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OgreLegSoul ShrivenThis is mostly a thing in normal dungeons and it's because that's where people go to farm transmute and gear and they get away with it because the damage isn't high enough to kill them. I would rather do a vet DLC dungeon with 2 bad dps and a bad healer than do a random normal where people speedrun it. Hopefully the group finder helps with this problem.
I've only done a couple Veteran dungeons so far. I'm not sure if my gear is up to snuff yet and I didn't want to drag anyone down. Maybe I'll try focusing on those if that's where the actual gameplay is at. It's really frustrating to pay monthly for a game I don't even get to play if you know what I mean. I would rather spend an hour fighting a hard battle than just running through stuff over and over.
I'll check it out. Thanks for the tip!2 -
MidniteOwl1913✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Speedrunners are killing normal dungeons. It only takes one to ruin it for the other 3. And since speed is all that matters to them they are also often fake healers and tank because the queue wait is shorter. Speed really is all that matters.
PS5/NA6 -
ZOS_HadeostrymodGreetings,
After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's related to LFG.
Thank you for your understanding1 -
wilykcat✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree with every single comment and the original post in this discussion. Here is my opinion.
I'm trying to level up a night blade alt and doing normal dungeons is the quickest way to do that. I've seen lots of people rushing to get the dungeon done and that makes it difficult to complete quest. I gave up on doing normal dungeons and went back to questing on my low level alt.
On my main I do veteran dungeons and I see less of that speed running nonsense but there is that one occasional group that manages to do that. In veteran dungeons if they do speed run I'll do it with them. I have lots of champion points in stamina, sprinting, and movement speed which helps a lot.
Speed running is only a problem when one person in the group is doing it but not the others. When everyone in the group is speed running then it's ok.Edited by wilykcat on October 1, 2023 1:01PM0 -
thorwyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's funny when people are calling other players selfish and "me me me me mine mine" and then come up with a list of stuff that other players are expected to do for you. LFG means looking for group, not looking for someone to teach or looking for someone to wait for until they finally sorted out their inventory. The difference between people being helpful in /region or guild chat and lfg is, that people in /region are responding if/when they have time and resources to do so. A PUG is a completely different story, because here, people are forced to interact. That creates tension.
That being said, yes, I agree, there are jerks out there and sometimes you'll get unlucky and run into some of them. However, If someone clearly states that they are doing the quest or don't know the mechanics, the vast majority of players will accept that and slow down. Without communication, you will never find common ground. And that is one big part of the puzzle. It is incredible how often I am running into a group that does not even type one single word, yet obviously expects everyone to wait for their quest.
I really hope that with the new addition to the group finder in U40, things will get easier for all sides.Edited by thorwyn on October 1, 2023 4:30PMAnd if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill
And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon8 -
Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Unannounced speed runs occur and one can tell right away that if group members sprint ahead past the first mob without killing them, then it probably is a speed run.
If you know that you cannot keep up and the mobs are already running back at you and you don't want to deal with the mess, you have options.
1. Leave: not the best option.
2. Go back to the entrance and wait for the blue portal: the portal appears once a boss has been killed. This is an okay option if the boss that was possibly killed matters not to your purpose for being there. Take the portal immediately because they will already be sprinting ahead.
3. Be prepared to speed run before queuing: the ole "if you can't beat'em, join'em". And if it's a legit "kill everything as a group run" ask for a minute to switch any gear back to your normal build, if necessary.Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--1 -
disintegr8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Unfortunately, group finder doesn't really cater for new players. Too many people either doing a daily random or daily undaunted who want to spend as little time as possible in there.
Like other content, if you want to learn mechanics or explore the place looking for chests, sacks, etc., you're best off finding some friends to run with.Australian on PS4 NA server.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.3 -
boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lol try being a tank in normals its a blast. If i get a chance to hold a boss (if i catch up) for 10 seconds its amazing 😆Edited by boi_anachronism_ on October 2, 2023 4:26PM1 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Aside from FG1, where I will never, ever fault someone for dungeon running, the only ways to combat it are (1) kicking the unannounced dungeon sprinter, or (2) post in group chat that you are on the quest.
As for learning mechanics in a normal dungeon, don't bother. You can't and won't as the mechanics either do not appear in a normal dungeon (i.e. Falkreath Hold), or do not punish enough in a normal dungeon for your to notice (i.e. Frostvault). Dungeons are not like trials, where you do learn mechanics. Normals are simply too easy.
Not accusing you of this @OgreLeg but the refrain of "how can I be expected to learn mechanics" has become a tired, worn out excuse used by some players who demand that everyone run a normal dungeon at their speed, do all side bosses because they want to, and do not care if the other 3 players in the group do not want to play that way. in other words, they are the problem, not the group.1 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭i usually play as a tank when queuing for dungeons because of the lower queue times
i dont usually ask if anyone needs mechanics before a fight unless i see one of 2 things: all of the players are low cp (under 200-300 usually) or we get to the boss and people are dying because they arent paying attention to important mechanics or we happen to wipe
as it really depends on the individual boss fight if the mechanics are important on normal
i also will chime in about mechanics and such if people do actually mention that it is their first time in the dungeonplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
Sync01✭✭✭✭
That says more about why you experience people being toxic than you think....and you have to start an altercation to put them in their place as the idiot who ran ahead and stood in red carpet.
I've recently levelled two alts and I honestly don't think lfg is toxic. For both characters I was able to do the quests in all dungeons without issue, and the only person in those runs I can recall being toxic was someone who started complaining about us not waiting instead of you know... saying they had the quest.
Thing is even if you have someone low lvl in the group the likelihood of them already having done the quest is pretty high, not to mention that in daily random a lot are alts just doing it to get transmutes. I and most other people are fine with waiting for someone to do the quest, but we have no way of knowing they're doing it unless they say something.3 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »Speedrunners are killing normal dungeons. It only takes one to ruin it for the other 3. And since speed is all that matters to them they are also often fake healers and tank because the queue wait is shorter. Speed really is all that matters.
And whenever anyone vents about this issue in the forums, everybody who is totally fine with speedrunning will jump in to say that speedrunning is what the majority want, and everyone who wants or needs to go slower for whatever reason is just being selfish and inconsiderate and toxic. o_O
Hopefully the new group finder will help to resolve some of these complaints, but until then-- or if it doesn't resolve the issue-- all you can do is try to form your own pre-made group.
Personally, I never use the current group finder, and never run random dungeons, although I did try them a few years ago. My own experiences were always non-toxic, thank goodness, but I quickly learned that trying to do the quest and actually read things and listen to the NPCs (instead of just click-click-click run) was not going to be possible unless I soloed the dungeon, so that's the only way I run dungeons now-- solo, at my own pace.
True, I don't get any daily rewards from completing a random dungeon.
True, I've never seen the inside of the vast majority of dungeons-- and all of those dungeon DLCs I've bought from the Crown Store are essentially wasted Crowns (although I don't mind that, because I want all of the content).
But at least I don't have to worry about encountering anyone who's going to rage at me, kick me at the very end of the dungeon out of spite so I can't get any rewards from the final boss, or anything else that would ruin my play session and upset me for the rest of the night and possibly into the next day. Not that that has ever happened to me (yet), but I've read enough of other players' bad experiences that it's put me off from ever wanting to do random dungeons.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!1 -
RodneyRegis✭✭✭✭✭I've been playing ESO off and on again for a long time now. I don't remember this being a thing a few years ago but it has definitely been a thing for at least 2 years now and it's only so noticeable because everyone outside of LFG dungeon finder seems friendly and helpful. Once you click "ready" on that random dungeon finder queue, though, you step into a totally different world.
I can't imagine what it must be like for new players. You zone in and everyone is already gone, running at a break-neck pace to blast past any trash mobs and just dive on boss after boss because god forbid a dungeon run take seven minutes when it can take five.
There's no one to help you if you haven't been able to learn the dungeon layouts because everyone keeps sprinting through as fast as possible. You will be left behind. You will lose out on the quest you were trying to complete. You will lose out on the loot you came looking for. You will lose out on any ability to test your builds. No time to read bookshelves for skill points. No time to check crates for mats. No time to pick locks on chests. Just go go go or risk getting rage-kicked from the group.
You zone into a dungeon and the tank asks "does everyone know the mechanics?" and you better not speak up. Tell the truth with a "first time here" and the tank leaves group, screwing over everyone else. Then you get to sit with a debuff because you had to leave a dead group.
You're running heals and everyone runs 100 yards ahead of you, dives into a fight immediately, and they die before you can even get in range to pop a heal. That's your fault. The speed-team rages out you, something about "fake heals", and you have to start an altercation to put them in their place as the idiot who ran ahead and stood in red carpet.
You're running heals and the tank is new and/or trying something new. The tank is squishy so they die but you finish the boss with zero wipes. No harm no foul. All's well that ends well. Or is it? No. Because half the group is screaming "I hate fake tanks" and popping rage-kick votes on the poor guy (in this example the tank is literally begging for forgiveness and trying to explain themselves). Then you have to be the one to tell everyone to stop being and you finish the dungeon just fine, zero wipes, but the angry kids rage out anyway. Everyone acts like they were never new.
You're grinding for a particular set piece and you've been at it for hours. You finally get the drop but your inventory is full. You quickly dig into your bag and junk something to make room. As you reach into the loot drop for your set piece the words "Joining Encounter in Progress" appear and you are whisked away from your loot to the next fight which happens to be over the edge of a dropoff so you can't get back to the loot you needed after the dungeon ends.
Mind you, these normal dungeons. I'm not even talking veteran. I can go on and on with more examples but I think you get the point.
Now, I know the argument... "people been playing forever and just want to grind". Frankly, I don't like that excuse but it's a legit argument and I can't lie and say it's not. Yet that doesn't explain the crappy attitude I keep encountering over and over. I think most people hide behind that argument when in reality they mean "Dude, shut up. I don't care about anyone else around me. Just me, me, me, mine, mine."
If we don't have to fight the trash mobs or navigate the dungeons then why are they there? Just develop a single dungeon comprised of room after room of boss fights and let the impatient people grind that over and over. As of right now, the LFG experience is really off-putting. If I were a new player, I wouldn't stick around. As it stands, I already have a lot of time and money invested so I'll continue to pop in and out.
Maybe someday I'll figure out how to not die in 2 hits in PvP and then I won't have to worry about LFG dungeons anymore.
I really hope someone at Bethesda sees this. Try it for yourself. Queue for like 3 or 4 dungeons back to back and tell me if you run one where any of this doesn't happen.
People are just me me me.
Meanwhile, I'd like everyone to wait while I loot bookshelves which I could find in a library.3 -
svendf✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »Aside from FG1, where I will never, ever fault someone for dungeon running, the only ways to combat it are (1) kicking the unannounced dungeon sprinter, or (2) post in group chat that you are on the quest.
As for learning mechanics in a normal dungeon, don't bother. You can't and won't as the mechanics either do not appear in a normal dungeon (i.e. Falkreath Hold), or do not punish enough in a normal dungeon for your to notice (i.e. Frostvault). Dungeons are not like trials, where you do learn mechanics. Normals are simply too easy.
Not accusing you of this @OgreLeg but the refrain of "how can I be expected to learn mechanics" has become a tired, worn out excuse used by some players who demand that everyone run a normal dungeon at their speed, do all side bosses because they want to, and do not care if the other 3 players in the group do not want to play that way. in other words, they are the problem, not the group.
I think the best you can do, is hop into some of the nDLC dungeons, and find out how wrong you are. Oh, use the dungeon finder.
Yes people do die alot in these dungeons - get real
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SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I broke down and used the Dungeon Finder to run a random normal dungeon with someone I'd grouped with last night. Aside from the fact that the other two players never said a word when spoken to, and apparently couldn't leave fast enough once the final boss died, it was an okay experience.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!0 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You zone into a dungeon and the tank asks "does everyone know the mechanics?" and you better not speak up. Tell the truth with a "first time here" and the tank leaves group, screwing over everyone else. Then you get to sit with a debuff because you had to leave a dead group.
Actually not speaking up is screwing the group: it's incredibly frustrating to keep wiping on a fight because it's obvious players don't know the mechanics, it's much faster to just say 'can someone let me know any need to know mechanics in this boss' before aggroing, because the explanation will take a couple of minutes, and it's much better than wiping for who knows how long. Everybody has been in a dungeon for the first time and had to learn the ropes, people won't hold that against you (especially if you are otherwise proficient at your role), so definitely be up front about it, it's a courtesy to the group and it's how you learn and improve.1 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is mostly a thing in normal dungeons and it's because that's where people go to farm transmute and gear and they get away with it because the damage isn't high enough to kill them. I would rather do a vet DLC dungeon with 2 bad dps and a bad healer than do a random normal where people speedrun it. Hopefully the group finder helps with this problem.
I've only done a couple Veteran dungeons so far. I'm not sure if my gear is up to snuff yet and I didn't want to drag anyone down. Maybe I'll try focusing on those if that's where the actual gameplay is at. It's really frustrating to pay monthly for a game I don't even get to play if you know what I mean. I would rather spend an hour fighting a hard battle than just running through stuff over and over.
I'll check it out. Thanks for the tip!
Yep. Looks like you are getting the "Normal dungeon random daily" group. You get 10 Transmute Crystals per character for one random dungeon run (vet or normal) per day. So most just do a random normal in group finder and go for it. I never play "Running simulator" in dungeon runs but most times that is what I see when I do a random dungeon run for crystals.
Try some Vet dungeons. Start with the non dlc pledges first and it should be a much more enjoyable experience.0 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »Aside from FG1, where I will never, ever fault someone for dungeon running, the only ways to combat it are (1) kicking the unannounced dungeon sprinter, or (2) post in group chat that you are on the quest.
As for learning mechanics in a normal dungeon, don't bother. You can't and won't as the mechanics either do not appear in a normal dungeon (i.e. Falkreath Hold), or do not punish enough in a normal dungeon for your to notice (i.e. Frostvault). Dungeons are not like trials, where you do learn mechanics. Normals are simply too easy.
Not accusing you of this @OgreLeg but the refrain of "how can I be expected to learn mechanics" has become a tired, worn out excuse used by some players who demand that everyone run a normal dungeon at their speed, do all side bosses because they want to, and do not care if the other 3 players in the group do not want to play that way. in other words, they are the problem, not the group.
I think the best you can do, is hop into some of the nDLC dungeons, and find out how wrong you are. Oh, use the dungeon finder.
Yes people do die alot in these dungeons - get real
Seriously? The two dungeons I used as examples, Frostvault and Falkreath, have mechanics and one-shots that do not appear on normal. The last 3 bosses in Falkreath have one-shot mechanics that you have to know how to beat or you wipe the group. Have you EVER seen anyone do the purify mechanic with Deathlord Bjarfrud Skjoralmor, on normal? Nope. Have you ever seen a group burn through all the pillars on Domihaus on normal? Nope.
In Frostvault, have you ever seen a group taunt Rizzuk to pull him away from Avalanche? Nope. Or wait to kill the centurions that pop up with each arm before burning Stonekeeper? Nope. Then they get into vet and wonder what they are doing wrong.
Why? Because the one-shot mechanic for these errors does not exist on normal. Sure, people can and do die in normal DLC dungeons, but that doesn't mean they are learning mechanics from it. And these two dungeons aren't really difficult DLC dungeons. Cradle of Shadows is still a nightmare on normal, and ever worse on vet. And even that one doesn't really teach you how to do two of the bosses, let alone the final boss.0 -
Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yeah as a tank and having fast access to dungeons I have stumbled into many speed runs. So, I have added speed cp to my tank so that, at least, there would be a chance I could keep up if Beep-Beep the Road Runner is a group member.
I kinda hate drawing Falkreath Hold because of the high chance that it'll be a speed run, so I will pause at the entrance to see whether or not the players run ahead. One time this year no one did. Anyway, my next question is: will this be a "drag and die" run. In Falkreath Hold that question is answered after killing the Siege Mammoth.
So after clearing the Seige Mammoth and going through the door Beep-Beep shot through the mobs like an arrow, all of the mobs, and the rest of us lumbered through the mess, the squishies dying on the way; their ghosts got up and jogged, one dying again. By the time I reached Cernunnon the Bone Colossus, I saw Beep-Beep sprawled flat, dead. Behind me the other two players managed to get to Cernunnon. Behind them minotaurs and reachmen were closing in, killing one of the players just as he reached the boss area.
So I had to decide if I wanted to die and allow this to be a "drag and die". The other player was about to get overwhelmed. Yeah..no. I aggroed a few things then rezzed Beep-Beep. Then rezzed the other player. They had to kill everything because I sure as hell wasn't going to die. Not this time.
They killed everything. I figured they could and it did not take long. Of course, Beep-Beep rushed ahead and skipped the minotaurs before the last boss. The rest of us were dragged into the final boss. The lesson with that is to wait next to Cernunnon's corpse if you have a Beep-Beep in the group.
Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--0 -
svendf✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »El_Borracho wrote: »Aside from FG1, where I will never, ever fault someone for dungeon running, the only ways to combat it are (1) kicking the unannounced dungeon sprinter, or (2) post in group chat that you are on the quest.
As for learning mechanics in a normal dungeon, don't bother. You can't and won't as the mechanics either do not appear in a normal dungeon (i.e. Falkreath Hold), or do not punish enough in a normal dungeon for your to notice (i.e. Frostvault). Dungeons are not like trials, where you do learn mechanics. Normals are simply too easy.
Not accusing you of this @OgreLeg but the refrain of "how can I be expected to learn mechanics" has become a tired, worn out excuse used by some players who demand that everyone run a normal dungeon at their speed, do all side bosses because they want to, and do not care if the other 3 players in the group do not want to play that way. in other words, they are the problem, not the group.
I think the best you can do, is hop into some of the nDLC dungeons, and find out how wrong you are. Oh, use the dungeon finder.
Yes people do die alot in these dungeons - get real
Seriously? The two dungeons I used as examples, Frostvault and Falkreath, have mechanics and one-shots that do not appear on normal. The last 3 bosses in Falkreath have one-shot mechanics that you have to know how to beat or you wipe the group. Have you EVER seen anyone do the purify mechanic with Deathlord Bjarfrud Skjoralmor, on normal? Nope. Have you ever seen a group burn through all the pillars on Domihaus on normal? Nope.
In Frostvault, have you ever seen a group taunt Rizzuk to pull him away from Avalanche? Nope. Or wait to kill the centurions that pop up with each arm before burning Stonekeeper? Nope. Then they get into vet and wonder what they are doing wrong.
Why? Because the one-shot mechanic for these errors does not exist on normal. Sure, people can and do die in normal DLC dungeons, but that doesn't mean they are learning mechanics from it. And these two dungeons aren't really difficult DLC dungeons. Cradle of Shadows is still a nightmare on normal, and ever worse on vet. And even that one doesn't really teach you how to do two of the bosses, let alone the final boss.
I have done both on vet. Now listen - people still die on normal, because the mechs kill. You mainly said - mechs aren´t deadly on normal, which is wrong. Get real.
That said. Use group finder and go into those two, or any DLC dungeon on normal, and test it for yourself and do the mechs (no burn).
You will see people die. Why ? Because some of them are first timers - running it for the first time, and others for whatever reason. why is it so hard for some to understand ? I know why, and willl not make any comment on it here
The allmighty bubble is hard to burst if you don´t try and try things outside it, to figure out, what is going on else, where in the game.
PS.
Sorry if I was too direct. We could have the same talk over coms and agree. It´s not aimed at you - more in the direction to people, who need to try some Group Finder action, to see, what is going on in the game.
Don´t take it the wrong way
Edited by svendf on October 4, 2023 11:11AM0 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@svendf I think we are on the same side of this. Of course you can die in normals, but a lot of the one shots in veteran are more like 90% shots on normal. And yeah, the ones dying are likely new to the dungeon, exploring. But I still think guides and videos are far more effective at learning dungeon mechs than normals.
My overall gripe are the players that say they are trying to learn mechanics while dragging a group through side bosses or looting everything or sightseeing while the rest of the group just wants to run the main dungeon. If someone wants to do side bosses, and the group says no, the group is not being rude. These are the players that invariably then complain "well how can I learn mechanics?"
In that case, its not learning mechanics, its loot running, and it is dragging the group. And, just to clarify, I am NOT lumping people on quest into this group.1 -
svendf✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »@svendf I think we are on the same side of this. Of course you can die in normals, but a lot of the one shots in veteran are more like 90% shots on normal. And yeah, the ones dying are likely new to the dungeon, exploring. But I still think guides and videos are far more effective at learning dungeon mechs than normals.
My overall gripe are the players that say they are trying to learn mechanics while dragging a group through side bosses or looting everything or sightseeing while the rest of the group just wants to run the main dungeon. If someone wants to do side bosses, and the group says no, the group is not being rude. These are the players that invariably then complain "well how can I learn mechanics?"
In that case, its not learning mechanics, its loot running, and it is dragging the group. And, just to clarify, I am NOT lumping people on quest into this group.
That´s why I said "don´t take it the wrong way". Maybe too direct from my side. So Im sorry about that didn´t mean to.1 -
Juju_beans✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've been playing ESO off and on again for a long time now. I don't remember this being a thing a few years ago but it has definitely been a thing for at least 2 years now and it's only so noticeable because everyone outside of LFG dungeon finder seems friendly and helpful. Once you click "ready" on that random dungeon finder queue, though, you step into a totally different world.
I can't imagine what it must be like for new players. You zone in and everyone is already gone, running at a break-neck pace to blast past any trash mobs and just dive on boss after boss because god forbid a dungeon run take seven minutes when it can take five.
I'll tell you how it is for new players..
You're finally high enough level to do dungeons. You enter the dungeon and tell the group right away that you are new.
And then get kicked.
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