It's one of the best pve damage mythics actually, in group content it's somewhat on a par with kilt, when solo it's only outclassed by sea serpent. It's fine. With addons you can collect all books in a day, you probably already have most of them.
Who uses monster sets anyway?

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think Mora’s Whispers could use a small buff. IMO Mythic items should give more than a standard 5 piece set bonus.

Look at Order’s Wrath for example, which gives 4.3% crit chance and 8% crit damage. Compare that to the Harpooner’s Kilt mythic, which gives 5% crit chance and 10% crit damage. That is a 16% and 25% increase to these stats.

Now look at Mora’s, which gives 7% crit chance max (after farming every book). This is the same as the Mother’s Sorrow or Leviathan 5 piece bonus, and equal to crafted Heartland Conquerer with Precise. If we want to be less generous, we could compare this 7% on MW with the Advancing Yokeda 5 piece of 11% crit chance. I don’t believe it needs to be that strong, but I’d like to see Mora’s buffed to 8.5% crit chance (21% stronger than Sorrow/Levi) to feel more like a mythic.

In its current state, Mora’s is rarely a good choice. Even in situations where Kilt is not useful, 2pc Zaan tends to beat Mora’s + 1 Slimecraw. And while there are some encounters that discourage both Zaan and Kilt, they are not common and it only gets used when better options fail. If we go through the Watcher grind and book grind, it should really be a more versatile option to compete (but not exceed) current meta sets, especially considering that it forces the user to wear light shoulders in a medium armor meta.

8-9% would be good, my vote is 8.5% crit chance to balance it.

Thing here is that harpooners can fall off in a lot of content pretty easy. This never does. I know lot of high level folks who use this and as for comparing it to a 5 piece well its a 1 piece. You can still choose two five piece sets and a one piece monster helm.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think Mora’s Whispers could use a small buff. IMO Mythic items should give more than a standard 5 piece set bonus.

Look at Order’s Wrath for example, which gives 4.3% crit chance and 8% crit damage. Compare that to the Harpooner’s Kilt mythic, which gives 5% crit chance and 10% crit damage. That is a 16% and 25% increase to these stats.

Now look at Mora’s, which gives 7% crit chance max (after farming every book). This is the same as the Mother’s Sorrow or Leviathan 5 piece bonus, and equal to crafted Heartland Conquerer with Precise. If we want to be less generous, we could compare this 7% on MW with the Advancing Yokeda 5 piece of 11% crit chance. I don’t believe it needs to be that strong, but I’d like to see Mora’s buffed to 8.5% crit chance (21% stronger than Sorrow/Levi) to feel more like a mythic.

In its current state, Mora’s is rarely a good choice. Even in situations where Kilt is not useful, 2pc Zaan tends to beat Mora’s + 1 Slimecraw. And while there are some encounters that discourage both Zaan and Kilt, they are not common and it only gets used when better options fail. If we go through the Watcher grind and book grind, it should really be a more versatile option to compete (but not exceed) current meta sets, especially considering that it forces the user to wear light shoulders in a medium armor meta.

8-9% would be good, my vote is 8.5% crit chance to balance it.

Thing here is that harpooners can fall off in a lot of content pretty easy. This never does. I know lot of high level folks who use this and as for comparing it to a 5 piece well its a 1 piece. You can still choose two five piece sets and a one piece monster helm.

this, moras is incredibly stat dense when its giving a 5 pc bonus for 1 pc

I think that is a strange way of looking at Mythics, they certainly are not intended to be balanced with the few 1pc sets in existence.

Their balance should be compared with a no-mythic 5-5-2 set setup. To add a mythic, you need to either break a 5-piece set, resulting in 5-4-2-1, or break a 2-piece set (monster helm or arena weapon), resulting in 5-5-1-1. This means that the mythic needs to be at least as strong as a 2pc monster helm or a 5pc set bonus to be useful. Mora’s Whispers falls slightly short of this goal.

It’s easy to see the intended strength of Mythics with various other examples. Look at Oakensoul, Velothi, or Sea-Serpent’s Coil for stat density. I mentioned Kilt above, with ~20% more stats than Order’s Wrath 5pc. Sure it is situational (and fine in the majority of boss fights), which is good design for a mythic, but Mora’s lacks a situation where it shines. Thrassian Stranglers are also situational, but they at least reward you with 1150 weapon damage when given the opportunity (3.8 times the 5pc bonus on Hundings/Julianos).

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think Mora’s Whispers could use a small buff. IMO Mythic items should give more than a standard 5 piece set bonus.

Look at Order’s Wrath for example, which gives 4.3% crit chance and 8% crit damage. Compare that to the Harpooner’s Kilt mythic, which gives 5% crit chance and 10% crit damage. That is a 16% and 25% increase to these stats.

Now look at Mora’s, which gives 7% crit chance max (after farming every book). This is the same as the Mother’s Sorrow or Leviathan 5 piece bonus, and equal to crafted Heartland Conquerer with Precise. If we want to be less generous, we could compare this 7% on MW with the Advancing Yokeda 5 piece of 11% crit chance. I don’t believe it needs to be that strong, but I’d like to see Mora’s buffed to 8.5% crit chance (21% stronger than Sorrow/Levi) to feel more like a mythic.

In its current state, Mora’s is rarely a good choice. Even in situations where Kilt is not useful, 2pc Zaan tends to beat Mora’s + 1 Slimecraw. And while there are some encounters that discourage both Zaan and Kilt, they are not common and it only gets used when better options fail. If we go through the Watcher grind and book grind, it should really be a more versatile option to compete (but not exceed) current meta sets, especially considering that it forces the user to wear light shoulders in a medium armor meta.

8-9% would be good, my vote is 8.5% crit chance to balance it.

Thing here is that harpooners can fall off in a lot of content pretty easy. This never does. I know lot of high level folks who use this and as for comparing it to a 5 piece well its a 1 piece. You can still choose two five piece sets and a one piece monster helm.

this, moras is incredibly stat dense when its giving a 5 pc bonus for 1 pc

I think that is a strange way of looking at Mythics, they certainly are not intended to be balanced with the few 1pc sets in existence.

Their balance should be compared with a no-mythic 5-5-2 set setup. To add a mythic, you need to either break a 5-piece set, resulting in 5-4-2-1, or break a 2-piece set (monster helm or arena weapon), resulting in 5-5-1-1. This means that the mythic needs to be at least as strong as a 2pc monster helm or a 5pc set bonus to be useful. Mora’s Whispers falls slightly short of this goal.

It’s easy to see the intended strength of Mythics with various other examples. Look at Oakensoul, Velothi, or Sea-Serpent’s Coil for stat density. I mentioned Kilt above, with ~20% more stats than Order’s Wrath 5pc. Sure it is situational (and fine in the majority of boss fights), which is good design for a mythic, but Mora’s lacks a situation where it shines. Thrassian Stranglers are also situational, but they at least reward you with 1150 weapon damage when given the opportunity (3.8 times the 5pc bonus on Hundings/Julianos).

if you compare a mythic with a 1pc monster, then its still twice as strong

apple to apple comparison would be slimecraw

slimecraw 1pc is 771 crit rating at gold quality

moras maxed bonus is basically double of that (1528 crit rating)

Yes, it is true that Mora’s is double a Slimecraw 1 piece bonus. However Slimecraw is unusually good for a 1 piece, and Mora’s is unusually bad for a mythic.

Look at another example: Baron Zaudrus 1 piece gives tri-stat resources, 1699 total. Death Dealers Fete also gives tri-stat resources, 7920 total. Does this mean that Mythics are balanced at 4.66 times a standard 1 piece bonus?

The standard 1-piece for crit is 3%, but Mora’s would be ridiculously overpowered if it gave 4.66x3%=14% crit chance.

It becomes more extreme with some dubious examples like Thrassians, giving 8.9 times a standard 129 weapon damage, but that set is hard to use and reduces survivability. It subtracts 5 standard health bonuses at full stacks, so maybe gives net benefit 8.9-5=3.9 times a 1-piece. Even that would still be too much for Mora’s, since 3.9x3%=11.7% crit (more than even AY’s 5-piece).

I don’t think there is an easy numerical answer here, every mythic is very different, and they often bring some type of condition or “curse” for balance.

In my experience, Mora’s falls a little short of the impact Mythics should have. It seems to be considering the experience boost in its combat effectiveness, which is a mistake IMO. It should not be overbuffed, bringing it up to 10% crit would be too much (that is Kilt level damage without worrying about incoming damage or crit damage cap. It would be reasonable to see Mora’s give 8% or 9% crit. Basically the Tzogvins 5-piece bonus without the Minor Force effect (10% crit damage).