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GM NEEDED ASAP!! SEND GM TO HOLLOW CITY IN COLDHARBOUR!!!
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Jenasy✭✭✭Is it just me who thinks the amount of bots in the game have been reduced? I run into these suspected bots on occasion in public D's and stuff but i see them less and less and i play this game alot more then id like to admit LOL.0 -
butthurtlocker wrote: »And I'm tired of hearing the same old thing: "Please just report them"
because we've been doing that. So many of us have been. Despite all the players out there who are willing to take time out of their game time to stop and report this kind of stuff when they see it, we don't have the power to catch all of the bots and report them, and not only that, I'm sure Zenimax doesn't have the time and the resources to sit there and manually look through every report and respond to it.
We've been listening to what we're told to do. We KNOW about the report system. We've used it, we know the procedure quite well. We've been listening. But when is somebody at this company going to start listening to us?
Let me ask you a straight forward question: at what point would you accept that they are listening?
1) Perhaps when you see a GM constantly running around?
Well in order for YOU to constantly see a GM running around they'd either have to be constantly spamming chat with announcements, or be in visual range of YOU. Either way, that's not going to happen. People would start to get pissed at seeing constant system message spam.
2) Perhaps when you see a notification in the system messages?
Well, that is already happening. Should it happen more often? Perhaps. But at what point is it considered "enough"?
3) Perhaps they could give daily updates on how many bots / accounts they banned? Well, that could be informative. But you'd always get people saying that the figures are made up and that its all lies because there's no actual proof.
4) Maybe perhaps you will *only* believe they are doing something when you see a drop in bots? That's understandable, if not a little naive. Remember, we as customers only see the results of their work. Likewise, just because something isn't in a patch notes, doesn't mean they aren't working on it.
All this comes down to whether or not YOU choose to believe that Zenimax are working on the issue. No one can persuade you, except you.Edited by rioinsigniab16_ESO on May 7, 2014 7:33PMHow can you soar with eagles.....when you work with turkeys?5 -
Moonraker✭✭✭✭Players often state that adding more GM would resolve this issue with bots. But realistically it will never do more than scratch the surface of automated bot farming lime this.
Consider that there are around 104 dungeons in Tamriel. Then, multiply this by several instanced versions of the same dungeon (Megaserver system). Then times that by two with two Megaservers. And that is just dungeons.
Consider the same issue for bots in zones, instances of these zones etc.
So, assuming a GM does come and ban 20 bots called xsshthth34md. Then the bot farmer simply generates a further 20, probably automated, within a matter of minutes.
The resources required to have staff employed to physically do this will be taking resources away from other systems that need to be in place to do this automatically, or identifying and fixing the exploits.
They are already putting in fixes like for dungeon bosses which appears to have reduced that exploit. The botters of course then move to the next exploit and ZOS move to fix those etc.
Take this problem of level 3 new characters automatically created and set on predetermined routes en masse. You could eliminate this particular exploit by putting in a level check which would stop all but a few fully levelled bots. To do that will require changes to code, QA checking to ensure it doesn't cause more problems etc. Things get prioritised so it all has to be considered with the other priorities on which to focus a finite resource.
It takes time but will get done. Frustration is understandable but posting specific locations etc. in the forum wont help as has been posted by staff.
Hopefully a simplified and more efficient report system can be implemented soon to help this. At least we don't get spammed with multiple emails now as we did before
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GossiTheDog✭✭✭✭✭I don't know if you guys understand the scale of the botting community (worth a google). For one thing, one of the ESO bot frameworks (yes, you can get frameworks where users can make their own addons for the bots!) they've already added code so if any Gamemaster* characters teleport in, they instantly teleport out. The bot frameworks can now turn off clipping, allowing them to travel underground, so they can collect items without being seen. In the last week support has been added by botters to fly. If you look up in the sky today, you'll occasionally see bots fly overhead. You can't report them as they're too far away to press F to interact.
Back in 2005 it was estimated 100,000 people were employed in China purely for botting World of Warcraft. That was 2005. 100,000 people eclipses Zenimax Online by a huge degree. There is a loooooooooot of money to be made in gold, as people actually buy it.
Here's a fun video of a bot flying through walls. This is the tip of the iceberg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyZ1EXF0AXg Edited by GossiTheDog on May 7, 2014 7:40PM2 -
nimbli✭✭✭I do not understand the scale. I do not understand code. I would like to know what an appropriate timeframe is for not seeing them run through en masse though. When is it feasible to say "this should have been fixed by now"?1 -
GossiTheDog✭✭✭✭✭I do not understand the scale. I do not understand code. I would like to know what an appropriate timeframe is for not seeing them run through en masse though. When is it feasible to say "this should have been fixed by now"?
They're still in World of Warcraft after 10 years. They're in Final Fantasy MMO. They're in Star Wars Online. Etc.0 -
Zyle✭✭✭✭✭Problem solved: Captcha codes for every resource xD
676 CP
Zyle - LVL50 Stamina Nightblade - Former Emp AS - VMA Clear (Flawless)
Joven - LVL50 Hybrid Templar
Adion - LVL50 Stamina DK
Radac - LVL50 Magicka Sorcerer
Vanikath - LVL50 Magicka DK4 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I do not understand the scale. I do not understand code. I would like to know what an appropriate timeframe is for not seeing them run through en masse though. When is it feasible to say "this should have been fixed by now"?
Its an ongoing war. It will most likely never end until the ingame gold is worthless.0 -
nimbli✭✭✭Thanks for the replies, disheartening though they are
Edited by nimbli on May 7, 2014 8:17PM0 -
YourNameHere✭✭✭Try this to help report them. Even if it's a few. Also, you can get something like FRAPS and make videos, and put the links in your tickets.
Here is an add-on that was suggested to me by another forum user.
I got it, and it works wonderfully.
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info181-FastReport.html
If you haven't already, get the addon client used Minion: http://minion.mmoui.com/
Then you can search there for FastReport by thelegendaryof
Once you install that in Minion, go into TESO then go to settings. You'll need to set up the report key (I used F5 in the key bindings).
So when you hover over someone, it will save the last name you captured, even if they disappear quickly. Hitting the key you chose for the report will bring up two windows, as shown in the screenshot http://cdn.eso.mmoui.com/preview/pvw554.jpg
Highlight and CTRL + C the information on the left hand window into the report window on the right hand side, then fill in the rest of what you saw, making sure to click from the drop down menu.
Hope this helps!NA Megaserver / RPer
Alinyssa Gaethar - AD || Raahni-do - AD || Wind-In-Tree's-Shadow - DC2 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭mark.coogan_ESO wrote: »mark.coogan_ESO wrote: »I would think this would be a pretty good money maker for ZOS, why don't you have a GM just run around looking for these bots in the game and ban the accounts right when you see them, that would force the botters to purchase the game again and create more accounts, the more accounts you ban the more games are purchased.
A single GM doing this would generate thousands of dollars a day if not tens of thousands.
Or is this not how it works?
Except that the botters are not using accounts bought using legitimate means. They are either using hacked accounts, accounts opened using random key generators or accounts bought using stolen CC info (which will be chargedback eventually).
Interesting. From where did you get that information?
It's been the standard well known modus operandi for botters/gold farmers in MMOs for years.
Not asserting you're wrong, but have you a link to a story done that revealed that kind of information?Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"1 -
LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The easiest way to stop the bots would be to lock down the add-on API further, even if it causes us to lose other add-ons. Personally, I would be in favor of that.
I hate bots as much as the next person; but I would much rather the developers spend their time fixing broken quests, skills and game mechanics first. Players can stop buying gold and goods which would also help as a lack of demand for their products will drive them from the game if there is no money in it for them.2 -
Ashlynne✭✭✭@Ashlynne, sure we can have a GM on every server every day in ever hot zone for bots... But well do u wanna pay a sub fee for a game that well policed. I dont think it would be 15 bucks LOL.
But i am sure there are multiple GM's in the game a day dealing with it. I have seen them alot recently in higher end zones.. I am sure i am not always lucky to be in the right place and the right time each time a GM comes on to deal with a bot.
And how accurate are u that they stay there for 15 mins? Do u have official info to support that?
I am more than willing to pay a high premium price for a game without botters, gold sellers, etc. So yes, please let me know where to insert my credit card.
The rest of your post is laughable. Do you have any official info to the contrary? lol0 -
Ashlynne✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »@Ashlynne, sure we can have a GM on every server every day in ever hot zone for bots... But well do u wanna pay a sub fee for a game that well policed. I dont think it would be 15 bucks LOL.
But i am sure there are multiple GM's in the game a day dealing with it. I have seen them alot recently in higher end zones.. I am sure i am not always lucky to be in the right place and the right time each time a GM comes on to deal with a bot.
And how accurate are u that they stay there for 15 mins? Do u have done official info to support that?
Not just that we would need one in every phase. You are talking 100s of people. There is no way on this earth they can afford to have 100s of GMs sitting there all day long. Just going to have to be patient. That or if they cannot handle it quit for a while come back after the kinks are worked out.
Let's use a little logic... if there were even just a couple GM's dedicating their full time job to this, that would be enough. How? Well, you could implement a /report channel or even a special report through the standard interface that gets immediate attention of the person "on-call". That GM with their mighty superpowers can fly in and save the day. Problem solved. They may get a little backlogged the first couple days, but account ban after account ban will clear that up in no time.
Try to think outside the box instead of just bashing and suggesting people "quit". Using some logic and reasoning skills can solve a problem like this.
- Ash
Edited by Ashlynne on May 7, 2014 8:07PM2 -
Keffertjes✭✭They should start making a reward system for people that are actually giving good reports.There prob allot of guys around more reporting then enjoying the game. I stopped reporting after the 10th bot (im sorry)0
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Blackhorne✭✭✭✭LonePirate wrote: »The easiest way to stop the bots would be to lock down the add-on API further, even if it causes us to lose other add-ons. Personally, I would be in favor of that.
No it wouldn't. Even the current API locks out character movement and world interaction commands. The bots are being run by code outside of the game injecting commands into the game's input stream. The only way to stop that is strict control of the operating environment. That's why WoW's Ts&Cs give them the right to scan your system and deny access if they find any suspicious process.
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GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pretty sure bots aren't even messing with add-ons. I know of no add-on that lets you wait underground, fly about in the sky, or speed-walk.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"0 -
mark.coogan_ESO wrote: »mark.coogan_ESO wrote: »I would think this would be a pretty good money maker for ZOS, why don't you have a GM just run around looking for these bots in the game and ban the accounts right when you see them, that would force the botters to purchase the game again and create more accounts, the more accounts you ban the more games are purchased.
A single GM doing this would generate thousands of dollars a day if not tens of thousands.
Or is this not how it works?
Except that the botters are not using accounts bought using legitimate means. They are either using hacked accounts, accounts opened using random key generators or accounts bought using stolen CC info (which will be chargedback eventually).
Interesting. From where did you get that information?
It's been the standard well known modus operandi for botters/gold farmers in MMOs for years.
Not asserting you're wrong, but have you a link to a story done that revealed that kind of information?
Here's two for just for a start from two knowledgeable insiders.
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/3740/Real-Money-Real-Problems.html
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/35999/
After that, well....just Google it.....
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Ashlynne✭✭✭Pretty sure bots aren't even messing with add-ons. I know of no add-on that lets you wait underground, fly about in the sky, or speed-walk.
Better think again! lol Not only have I seen their little heads pop up from under the game's surface... check this out. Caught in the act!
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/94408/hacks-are-getting-out-of-control-no-longer-need-to-be-on-ground-now-too-gather#latest
Sadly, I haven't gotten a screenshot. But this guy at least had a faster capture finger than I do. 0 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭mark.coogan_ESO wrote: »Here's two for just for a start from two knowledgeable insiders.
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/3740/Real-Money-Real-Problems.html
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/35999/
After that, well....just Google it.....
شكرا جزيلا لك!Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"0 -
mark.coogan_ESO wrote: »I would think this would be a pretty good money maker for ZOS, why don't you have a GM just run around looking for these bots in the game and ban the accounts right when you see them, that would force the botters to purchase the game again and create more accounts, the more accounts you ban the more games are purchased.
A single GM doing this would generate thousands of dollars a day if not tens of thousands.
Or is this not how it works?
Except that the botters are not using accounts bought using legitimate means. They are either using hacked accounts, accounts opened using random key generators or accounts bought using stolen CC info (which will be chargedback eventually).
Interesting. From where did you get that information?
That information is common knowledge. Gold farmers get people to buy gold from their websites, steal the CC details, use those CC's to create accounts on MMO's to generate more gold and advertise in them. Thus trying to generate more revenue.
And when someone finds their CC has been used without their authority, they inform the CC company who inform the company who received the money and do a "chargeback" on that company to reclaim the money.
Of course, the above isn't the only way that hackers / thieves / crooks get CC details. Hackers steal them from sites with poor security (see various news articles) and thieves place gadgets over the fronts of ATM's to capture CC details. Some crooked employees sometimes spoof POS machines to get them (again, see news articles).
THIS is precisely why you have to be careful and also NEVER buy gold from anywhere else but the company who is running the MMO (assuming they are reputable).Edited by rioinsigniab16_ESO on May 7, 2014 8:28PMHow can you soar with eagles.....when you work with turkeys?0 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭mark.coogan's commentary and links proved quite useful, thus my thanks in Arabic script.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"0 -
roflcopter✭✭✭
You have no idea, have you?ZOS_AmeliaR wrote: »We understand that bots can be very frustrating to encounter in-game, but please understand that we cannot assist with these types of issues on the forums. We have an in-game system in place that allows you to report violations of our Terms of Service, including bots and other forms of cheating.
If you haven't already done so, please make sure to use the reporting function to ensure these accounts are investigated by the appropriate team. Thank you!
You have no idea the scale of the problem.
You have no idea how totally inadequate your reporting mechanism is.
You have no idea how long it takes to report even one bot that isn't stationery.
You have no idea!
Why is this such a big deal? Let bots be bots and let Zen take care of them. I have never once in my entire life of playing MMO's ever let botting raise my blood pressure to the point of it ruining my gaming experience. Yeah, they are a nuisance but just play around it.
This game has a very friendly loot / exp system where it shouldn't effect you too much, unless your in cyradiil and see 1000 toons called x0x98dld running after you. THEN and only THEN would I poop myself.
I am not sure how I would handle a bot train in pvp.
Xbox One | NA | AD
GM - OK LOL
Warden Stuff
Ex - Trials Core 1 Runner - Left and couldn't be happier2 -
crush83✭✭✭✭The only way these bots will leave is if they aren't profiting. Banning the buyers is the only way to truly combat this. IF ZOS is banning gold buyers, they aren't banning nearly enough.
The problem is tracking who is buying gold. Gold sellers are clever at evading automatic detection systems. They do stuff like using uneven amounts, transferring a small amount at a time. Buying worthless items to make it look like a legit transfer, etc.1 -
ShinChuck✭✭✭They've been funneled into Coldharbor for a while now. Not sure the deal, but there are several topics about this with info and experiences on it. I've seen it myself."It's morally wrong to suggest gameplay changes for an MMO."
...seriously, someone told me that once here. The things people will do to win their internet arguments!0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I went to coldharbour today just to check things out. I was invited to the group who is farming there. Lots of people talking back and forth in the group chat. So I know you guys assume they are all bots but in my experence just now there are mainly regular people. Some speaking in chinese but they are still players. This is why you should report and move on.2 -
Jenasy✭✭✭@Ashlynne, sure we can have a GM on every server every day in ever hot zone for bots... But well do u wanna pay a sub fee for a game that well policed. I dont think it would be 15 bucks LOL.
But i am sure there are multiple GM's in the game a day dealing with it. I have seen them alot recently in higher end zones.. I am sure i am not always lucky to be in the right place and the right time each time a GM comes on to deal with a bot.
And how accurate are u that they stay there for 15 mins? Do u have official info to support that?
I am more than willing to pay a high premium price for a game without botters, gold sellers, etc. So yes, please let me know where to insert my credit card.
The rest of your post is laughable. Do you have any official info to the contrary? lol
no not official, but then again i was just commenting on my personal experience ingame with seeing gms. But if i am going to make a statement i will either have some 1st hand experience or have some facts to back it up. I have noticed an alarming amount of ppl posting inaccurate information like its fact in these forums.
I am glad u are willing to pay more for better GM coverage in game. Unfortunately i am not sure there are enough to support it. I on the other hand am happy paying 15 bucks a month and reporting bots as i see them
Oooo and im glad i made u laugh Edited by Jenasy on May 7, 2014 9:03PM0 -
Brakkar✭✭✭roflcopter wrote: »
You have no idea, have you?ZOS_AmeliaR wrote: »We understand that bots can be very frustrating to encounter in-game, but please understand that we cannot assist with these types of issues on the forums. We have an in-game system in place that allows you to report violations of our Terms of Service, including bots and other forms of cheating.
If you haven't already done so, please make sure to use the reporting function to ensure these accounts are investigated by the appropriate team. Thank you!
You have no idea the scale of the problem.
You have no idea how totally inadequate your reporting mechanism is.
You have no idea how long it takes to report even one bot that isn't stationery.
You have no idea!
Why is this such a big deal? Let bots be bots and let Zen take care of them. I have never once in my entire life of playing MMO's ever let botting raise my blood pressure to the point of it ruining my gaming experience. Yeah, they are a nuisance but just play around it.
This game has a very friendly loot / exp system where it shouldn't effect you too much, unless your in cyradiil and see 1000 toons called x0x98dld running after you. THEN and only THEN would I poop myself.
I am not sure how I would handle a bot train in pvp.
I wouldn't mind a thousand bots in AvA.
I'm a dk...
/throws banner in front of bots then picks the calculator to count alliance points gained.
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