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arcanist fatecarver needs a nerf or other classes need a boost for better competition
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LordTareq✭✭✭✭✭I'm quite disappointed that the arcanist is not really powerful. Sure in PvE it does nice damage but for PvP its a subpar class that get's eaten up by any of the meta classes and sucks in 1vsX situations.0 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭my guess as to why arcanist is showing up more in logs is because its still a relatively new class, its only been out for 2 months roughly and everyone wants to play with the new toysplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities3 -
SandandStars✭✭✭✭✭Imo, Arcanist is really easy to PvE with. Ceph’s Flail & Fate Carver clear rooms fast, all the while being tanky with little effort. I tend to out-dps non Arcanists and I’m a PvPer.
PvP, a different story. The DW/Vatesh metachasers are doing very well on ARC in pvp, but not many other builds are. At least in the BGs I’m in. It’s the old Spam Rending Slashes with Vateshran going while theyre in their Sea Abyss bubble, popping those killer ARC shields if needed.
I think ARC would be below DK & NB, and maybe tied with Warden, if you eliminated DW & Vatesh. The class’s inherent/easy tankiness complements this crud-sucking meta very well.
I do like the class overall, and am enjoying theorycrafting some off meta builds for pvp.
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merpins✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭These high numbers you're seeing on Arcanist are a combination of 3 things.
1. The ease of play. Arcanist is easy to play and to gear, it doesn't need trial sets to hit the end game numbers, and can hit slightly higher with them. Due to its rotation, it also doesn't require a lot of practice to master, so people can pull off really high scores despite the class being relatively new.
2. Lack of competition. Right now, how many end-game players are score pushing? I'd argue it's less than half of what was here pre-U35, which was half of what was here a year before THAT, and those that are left boil down to two types: the hype train followers and the class devotees. I'd even wager the majority of people that are left are hype train followers. This means the game is overflowing with people playing the new hotness, Arcanist, and getting high ranks. Why? Because the hardcore DK, Templar, and NB players aren't here. So it's inflated.
3. It's new. People gravitate to the new options, so people are stress testing the class. It hits some good numbers, but it's not higher than other classes. Maybe in some perfect situations with the right support classes in your group to buff you, but every class has its niche.
Regardless, I'd wager we'll see Arcanist support/tanking/healing get a decent nerf. It might also see a sustain nerf as well. I wouldn't be surprised if it got a damage nerf since that's something Zos is prone to doing as a knee-jerk reaction, but I'd hope not because it will just kill the class.Edited by merpins on August 20, 2023 5:35AM3 -
Daoin✭✭✭its like when a new person comes on the scene thats witty, charming strong and intelligent and the person who was top gun before is no longer getting that attention (you know the look on the face) so creates a hate campaign agenda. arcanist is just a good class to play and in my opinion way more popular because its a new class but i am one of those for sure think just leave this build alone. at the moment i feel like i get what i paid for and being always not keen for weaving and ani cancels, i can pop on the amulet and solely enjoy the skills and the days of needed to la are history.Edited by Daoin on August 20, 2023 9:07AM3
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CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nerfing Fatecarver in just about any way would kill the class, full stop. As a DPS, it has literally nothing else in its kit to prop it up.Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on August 21, 2023 12:15PM6 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Quethrosar wrote: »i hate how there's almost no possible way to out dps an arcanist fatecarver now. doesn't even seem skill based.
if an arcanist is in the trial, you can pretty much guarantee everyone will be lower dps.
Fatecarver sucks for PVP though. It's so easy to just move out of the way, then they wasted 3 crux for nothing.
It doesn't suck, it's just an ability that you have to actually aim.
Also, you probably shouldn't be using it when the opponent has the ability to just move out of the way. Set it up and let it rip.
It's too situational.
Yeah I have to aim Lethal arrow and poison injection too. It's not about aiming.
It's a channeled skill that can be interrupted and needs 3 crux to do good damage...the same 3 crux you need for the heal from Impervious runeward.
Just my opinion, but I reserve all crux for impervious runeward.
All offense in PvP is weapon skills and flail, no fatecarver.0 -
NVNNN2Soul ShrivenLittlePinkDot wrote: »Quethrosar wrote: »i hate how there's almost no possible way to out dps an arcanist fatecarver now. doesn't even seem skill based.
if an arcanist is in the trial, you can pretty much guarantee everyone will be lower dps.
Fatecarver sucks for PVP though. It's so easy to just move out of the way, then they wasted 3 crux for nothing.
this comment would've been legit if there was PvP in teso0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Don't you worry. Arcanist won't just get a minor nerf when they decide they have sold enough of the chapter. It will get the nerf sledge hammer, and if everyone doesn't stop playing it immediately then it will get nerfed again the next 3 patches too just in case...
Seriously though, Arcanist is just taking the spot of Oakensorc builds. It is about as easy to run, you can have 2 bars, and it will continue to do good AoE even after they nerf shock staff (unlike Oakensorcs).
If I was going to give constructive feedback to the developers I would say the shield on Fatecarver is a bit much. When it gets stacked with other shields it can get to a stupid high number of shield "health" while you are Fatecarving. Also the range might be a bit too far given the amount of damage it does. It allows you to do a lot of AoE damage on a big area while avoiding mechanics, and if you do happen to step in the wrong place you have a big shield.Edited by kojou on August 20, 2023 7:41PMPlaying since beta...0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Quethrosar wrote: »i hate how there's almost no possible way to out dps an arcanist fatecarver now. doesn't even seem skill based.
if an arcanist is in the trial, you can pretty much guarantee everyone will be lower dps.
Fatecarver sucks for PVP though. It's so easy to just move out of the way, then they wasted 3 crux for nothing.
It doesn't suck, it's just an ability that you have to actually aim.
Also, you probably shouldn't be using it when the opponent has the ability to just move out of the way. Set it up and let it rip.
It's too situational.
Yeah I have to aim Lethal arrow and poison injection too. It's not about aiming.
It's a channeled skill that can be interrupted and needs 3 crux to do good damage...the same 3 crux you need for the heal from Impervious runeward.
Just my opinion, but I reserve all crux for impervious runeward.
All offense in PvP is weapon skills and flail, no fatecarver.
You don't have to aim Lethal Arrow or Poison Injection though - you just move your cursor over/near the enemy and it auto aims. Not sure why you brought up those two abilities and not something more akin to Dawnbreaker or Jabs.
People saying "oh but it's interruptable" are missing my exact point - you shouldn't be using it willy-nilly without CC immunity.1 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Quethrosar wrote: »i hate how there's almost no possible way to out dps an arcanist fatecarver now. doesn't even seem skill based.
if an arcanist is in the trial, you can pretty much guarantee everyone will be lower dps.
Fatecarver sucks for PVP though. It's so easy to just move out of the way, then they wasted 3 crux for nothing.
It doesn't suck, it's just an ability that you have to actually aim.
Also, you probably shouldn't be using it when the opponent has the ability to just move out of the way. Set it up and let it rip.
It's too situational.
Yeah I have to aim Lethal arrow and poison injection too. It's not about aiming.
It's a channeled skill that can be interrupted and needs 3 crux to do good damage...the same 3 crux you need for the heal from Impervious runeward.
Just my opinion, but I reserve all crux for impervious runeward.
All offense in PvP is weapon skills and flail, no fatecarver.
You don't have to aim Lethal Arrow or Poison Injection though - you just move your cursor over/near the enemy and it auto aims. Not sure why you brought up those two abilities and not something more akin to Dawnbreaker or Jabs.
People saying "oh but it's interruptable" are missing my exact point - you shouldn't be using it willy-nilly without CC immunity.
No my PLAYSTATION CONSOLE does not auto aim. I free aim everything.
Same way I would in a game like Call of Duty.
And fatecarver is ridiculously easy to aim with a controller.
My Arcanist uses Lethal arrow and poison injection, that's why I said it.
It's my opinion that anything that requires me to jump through a bunch of hoops just to be effective, isn't worth slotting. I just won't use fatecarver in PvP.
I don't slot the stun and I don't slot Race against Time or anything that provides CC immunity on demand.
Not going to waste 2 bar slots just to try to make fatecarver function decently.
It's a PVE skill.
There's a reason the majority of Arcanists in PVP use masters dual wield with rending slashes.Edited by LittlePinkDot on August 21, 2023 7:47PM0 -
notsojuicy✭✭arcanist is not overtuned in terms of single target dmg output, the issue lies in cleave/aoe...
Flail and fatecarver (generator and spender) are all AOE skills.... on top of that you have languid eye as ulti, which doesn't cost too much and adds a ton of burst...
considering a lot of content, trash pulls or bosses with adds need cleave, no wonder arcanist outparses everything...
I've been in vDSR today and hit 340k on a trashpull on Arc.... Balanced? not at all, sorry to say....
On other classes you have to run specific trash setups, specific skills, need to have a lot of knowledge what you spend your GCD's on....
On Arcanist, you can just run through content on the same setup and beam...
Oh and should we talk about 4-man?
Right, Arc can run over 7k penetration in 6 Medium thanks to class passives and ansuul....
I don't care too much as i have 20 toons, every class and it is what it is... i'm used to adapting...
But if someone is stating arcanist is not overtuned in pve at this stage then i need to ask myself if we really play the same game.... sorry to say...
Just considering the "effort" you have to put in on every other class to barely come close
However, just seems like the direction the game is going to be more appealing to casuals (considering of how easy arcanist is to play) and of course, zeni as always wants to sell the chapter... After all it's a re-occuring cycle we already know....
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LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭
Maybe it's just because I'm almost exclusively a Pvp'er.notsojuicy wrote: »arcanist is not overtuned in terms of single target dmg output, the issue lies in cleave/aoe...
Flail and fatecarver (generator and spender) are all AOE skills.... on top of that you have languid eye as ulti, which doesn't cost too much and adds a ton of burst...
considering a lot of content, trash pulls or bosses with adds need cleave, no wonder arcanist outparses everything...
I've been in vDSR today and hit 340k on a trashpull on Arc.... Balanced? not at all, sorry to say....
On other classes you have to run specific trash setups, specific skills, need to have a lot of knowledge what you spend your GCD's on....
On Arcanist, you can just run through content on the same setup and beam...
Oh and should we talk about 4-man?
Right, Arc can run over 7k penetration in 6 Medium thanks to class passives and ansuul....
I don't care too much as i have 20 toons, every class and it is what it is... i'm used to adapting...
But if someone is stating arcanist is not overtuned in pve at this stage then i need to ask myself if we really play the same game.... sorry to say...
Just considering the "effort" you have to put in on every other class to barely come close
However, just seems like the direction the game is going to be more appealing to casuals (considering of how easy arcanist is to play) and of course, zeni as always wants to sell the chapter... After all it's a re-occuring cycle we already know....
But honestly though... I don't get the whole competitiveness of PVE. It's not even enjoyable the way elite groups play. Changing gear between bosses. Etc.
I see no enjoyment in vet hard mode. Requires too much coordination. Won't touch it with a 10 foot pole.
I'm making a Magicka tank Arcanist for pugs. Maybe I can get the monster helmets I want.
If the class ends up helping me find more casual enjoyment of something I'm not normally a fan of, then it's a win to me.
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ixthUA✭✭✭✭✭Arcanists fatecarver single target dps is low, and on top he gets no ultimate due to no weaving. I would suggest to nerf aoe and boost single target damage of the fatecarver. Maybe make it a lock skill with 50% damage splash effect.0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Quethrosar wrote: »i hate how there's almost no possible way to out dps an arcanist fatecarver now. doesn't even seem skill based.
if an arcanist is in the trial, you can pretty much guarantee everyone will be lower dps.
Fatecarver sucks for PVP though. It's so easy to just move out of the way, then they wasted 3 crux for nothing.
It doesn't suck, it's just an ability that you have to actually aim.
Also, you probably shouldn't be using it when the opponent has the ability to just move out of the way. Set it up and let it rip.
It's too situational.
Yeah I have to aim Lethal arrow and poison injection too. It's not about aiming.
It's a channeled skill that can be interrupted and needs 3 crux to do good damage...the same 3 crux you need for the heal from Impervious runeward.
Just my opinion, but I reserve all crux for impervious runeward.
All offense in PvP is weapon skills and flail, no fatecarver.
You don't have to aim Lethal Arrow or Poison Injection though - you just move your cursor over/near the enemy and it auto aims. Not sure why you brought up those two abilities and not something more akin to Dawnbreaker or Jabs.
People saying "oh but it's interruptable" are missing my exact point - you shouldn't be using it willy-nilly without CC immunity.
No my PLAYSTATION CONSOLE does not auto aim. I free aim everything.
Same way I would in a game like Call of Duty.
And fatecarver is ridiculously easy to aim with a controller.
My Arcanist uses Lethal arrow and poison injection, that's why I said it.
It's my opinion that anything that requires me to jump through a bunch of hoops just to be effective, isn't worth slotting. I just won't use fatecarver in PvP.
I don't slot the stun and I don't slot Race against Time or anything that provides CC immunity on demand.
Not going to waste 2 bar slots just to try to make fatecarver function decently.
It's a PVE skill.
There's a reason the majority of Arcanists in PVP use masters dual wield with rending slashes.
No, you DON'T free aim. There is no free aim in ESO outside of channeled AoE abilities (Jabs, Beam, and Curative Surge). You move your crosshairs near the player and your abilities "snap" to the player. Even on a Playstation or with a controller, you are not aiming your Lethal Arrow. You cannot "miss" a Lethal Arrow - if you activate the ability it will hit unless they dodge.
It's certainly not like in Call of Duty - that would be a system like New World has, where you can actually miss abilities.Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on August 22, 2023 1:28PM2 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Arcanists fatecarver single target dps is low, and on top he gets no ultimate due to no weaving. I would suggest to nerf aoe and boost single target damage of the fatecarver. Maybe make it a lock skill with 50% damage splash effect.
the hidden buff for the ult gain from light or heavy attack lasts for like 9 solid seconds, even if you weave between the fatecarvers you can still maintain that for ult gainplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭I play two Arcanists and I can say they are not OP. It may seem that way to you if you are not playing one but hop on one and see. The only decent dps is from Fatecarver. Some dps from the Flail but it's more to soften the targets. It takes time to build up Crux and when you get 3 you fire off Fatecarver. In dungeon runs I get interrupted a lot by NPC's and don't get the beam off entirely.
On top of that if you want to push Fatecarver damage you pretty much have to get specific gear sets equipped and put certain CP slottables on in the CP tree. If you are running an Arcanist you probably already know which ones work best.
And run a Mythic to boost damage as well. With certain gear sets and a Mythic equipped Fatecarver does great damage. But then again I can do the same kind of build with specific sets and a Mythic on other classes.
I think atm we just see so many people running Arcanist and are blinded by the green light. LOL2 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »I feel that after reading these comments about arc, more and more of you top, hitting hard, high end dps are upset that newer players or players who weren’t hitting numbers high as you are NOW hitting them or closer to it, and that makes you upset? The class is easy and hits. It doesn’t hit the hardest but man it makes group content so much easier and fun. It’s the new class. Ofcourse you will see more of them at present. But it is not the top dps class. It just feels like they’re maybe a little jealously 🤷♂️ for arc. I really feel like when they made this class, they were at the table and the boss said “How do we make a class that a brand new player can use, and be able to do great (not the best) but Great damage with almost no rotation.?”
Arc is phenomenal. It is my favorite tank to play. It is my favorite dps to play both pve and pvp. And it is my favorite healer. Which is crazy bc I thought I would hate the class when it came out haha.
Agree. Me too. I hated it on the PTS but finally leveled it on Live and am having a lot of fun with it. I don't weave much so this class works well for me.2 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Quethrosar wrote: »i hate how there's almost no possible way to out dps an arcanist fatecarver now. doesn't even seem skill based.
if an arcanist is in the trial, you can pretty much guarantee everyone will be lower dps.
Fatecarver sucks for PVP though. It's so easy to just move out of the way, then they wasted 3 crux for nothing.
It doesn't suck, it's just an ability that you have to actually aim.
Also, you probably shouldn't be using it when the opponent has the ability to just move out of the way. Set it up and let it rip.
You have to aim all abilities except point blank AOEs like impulse. Fatecarver is actually easier than Warden shalks. Shalks you cast and then have to make sure you are pointed in the right direction 3s later. Fatecarver gives you a nice green line so at least you know where it is going, and can visually correct your aim.
That said, I find it rare to take fatecarver damage in open world pvp, and in the last week or so I've seen fewer and fewer Arcanists even using it.
Personally I think conserving crux for impervious ward is a better call. You can get more reliable damage from proc sets.
PVE, fatecarver is a class version of a heavy attack build (HA lightning staves got hella-nerfed to make it even more attractive).0 -
I really enjoy the builder / spender mechanics of Arc.
I do not enjoy the buff stacks of DK and NB.
I like that in order to get effective dps you do need to build Crux. As much as it is irritating to get interrupted. Frequently. That's the trade off of building a class around it's one spender.
I particularly like that I can effectively play the class using its own skill lines without needing to worry about the same generic guild skill lines for buffs, which I do for every other class in my roster.
As I am here to have fun. I am thankful for this class, and also it's wonderful visuals.1 -
deejayvee✭✭✭✭OtarTheMad wrote: »I would hope that when it comes to class balance ZOS takes more than one part of the game into consideration.
New here, huh?PC - NA2 -
OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OtarTheMad wrote: »I would hope that when it comes to class balance ZOS takes more than one part of the game into consideration.
New here, huh?
Nope. Beta.
Just saying that I hope that they do from now on because just taking data from one part of the game has led them to make some bad decisions and I would hope they'd learn. If they don't then that's on them honestly. Necromancer is a joke and it's because they took information from only one part of the game and one side of the story and nerfed them to the bottom without revamping broken skills or buffing ones that are way below average.
Right now Arcanist is just the new shiny tool, things will calm and then we will have a good picture of what Arcanist really is.2 -
boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭notsojuicy wrote: »arcanist is not overtuned in terms of single target dmg output, the issue lies in cleave/aoe...
Flail and fatecarver (generator and spender) are all AOE skills.... on top of that you have languid eye as ulti, which doesn't cost too much and adds a ton of burst...
considering a lot of content, trash pulls or bosses with adds need cleave, no wonder arcanist outparses everything...
I've been in vDSR today and hit 340k on a trashpull on Arc.... Balanced? not at all, sorry to say....
On other classes you have to run specific trash setups, specific skills, need to have a lot of knowledge what you spend your GCD's on....
On Arcanist, you can just run through content on the same setup and beam...
Oh and should we talk about 4-man?
Right, Arc can run over 7k penetration in 6 Medium thanks to class passives and ansuul....
I don't care too much as i have 20 toons, every class and it is what it is... i'm used to adapting...
But if someone is stating arcanist is not overtuned in pve at this stage then i need to ask myself if we really play the same game.... sorry to say...
Just considering the "effort" you have to put in on every other class to barely come close
However, just seems like the direction the game is going to be more appealing to casuals (considering of how easy arcanist is to play) and of course, zeni as always wants to sell the chapter... After all it's a re-occuring cycle we already know....
Welp considering pc players can swap mid trial with an add on im not concerned about them having to swap gear. Thats a none issue.
Lets talk damage at the top end for a second:
As of u39 the highest parses on youtube sit at:
templars 133.5k
Nightblade 133.8k
Sorcs 139.8k
Arcs 132k
So no i do not see the damage as an issue. They are just competitive with other classes.
The issue ultimately lies with shields and some cc's.
Heres what i see happening long term for nerfs:
Impervious: will likely get a nerf to the heal and possibly the strength of the shield
Pragmatic fatecarver: slight nerf to shields, keep in mind in pve the class is effectively a sitting duck while beaming which is its main form of damage so i doubt they will remove it completely
Flail: removal of the immobilize
Nerf to penetration passive.
Gibbering shield: might see a nerf to strength and length.
Something to consider: the class has higher aoe bacause it has significantly less mobility so while i can run around smashing things with dots on another class and then execute them from range with a single target attack quickly arcs do not have that ability. They got fatecarver which is slow, easily interruptedby mech and you pretty much always need celarity to make it work. Its the entire skill upon which the class is built. If it is interrupted the damage is in the toilet and they need to rebuild stacks. They also have zero utility as a support dps which is why you will see a few on a raid team but never a team entirely comprised of them as with dk. If damage was the sole indicator of class strength everyone would run stam sorcs. They are by a wide margin the hardest hitting class.
One final point:
The class is easy to parse on, yes, however from a content perspective they arent quite as easy to play as people are saying. We are comparing logs from people who know how to play. Top end. These guys know mechs inside and out. They can time their beams to avoid mechs and interrupts. Newer players that try harder content with the class tend to find themselves floored or not hitting well at all because they get hit by everything or they have to cancel beam to not die because moving out of an aoe while using it is basically like permanently holding block and moving. Everyone compares it to the ha sorc but that combined very high mobility, infinite resource, exceptional damage mitigation (like olms can jump on your head and your good), permanent dots, cheap, massive burst heals, huge group damage buff for its hardest hitting ulti and insane splash damage with essentially no rotation whatsoever. I mean crit surge with bound ageis made you basically invincible in solo and 4 man.
Flail is basically swollow soul with no heal over time. You got rune mend which is average and will potentially go to another player on your team. You have cruxweaver which gives you longterm buff but its nothing compared to sorcs ageis and considering that blades will have a better one with dark cloak that is a double bar passive in 39 i find it to be a none issue.
And by the way: i am and end game player and my builds are completely different based on content so frankly that isnt true at all.Edited by boi_anachronism_ on August 28, 2023 2:16PM1 -
INM✭✭✭✭People that are talking about novelty or personal preferences don't understand endgame on the highest level. You don't pick whatever you want, you pick what is the most efficient. Wardens weren't played in PvE on release much because they weren't good.1
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boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People that are talking about novelty or personal preferences don't understand endgame on the highest level. You don't pick whatever you want, you pick what is the most efficient. Wardens weren't played in PvE on release much because they weren't good.
As i mentioned dps and utility are not the same which is why dk are still used predominantly in end game. They synergize with many required buff sets while putting out decent damage. Arcs can not so you will normally have one or two as dps to offset that.They can be used as straight dps or as a complete support class but not hybrid. They also are not as viable in some content like Vse or kynes because of the sheer amount of interrupts and blocking required.1