Wrong again. People queue as fake tanks because it helps everyone (including them) to get into the dungeon faster, and real tanks aren't needed there anyway - not to absorb damage, not to taunt.VaranisArano wrote: »Have you tried just following them? You're a "full tank", you should be able to soak some sideswipes from mobs on your way to the boss.
And as I said, if you don't the experience of DDs rushing ahead, blame the people who taught them to disregard the tank in the first place: fake tanks.
Why wait on someone who's probably not going to taunt anyway? That's what the proliferation of fake tanks taught everyone.
In normal base game dungeons, i don't see a reason for tank to lead the group. Its usually the most agitated DD who rushes ahead to the first non-skippable boss and kills everything. And there is not much to do for pure tank during boss fight, which usually lasts for 5-10 sec.Tanks should be the one leading the group, anyone rushing ahead of the tank is breaching etiquette and actually making the dungeon a lot more painful than it needs to be (after all, the tank is the one chaining and debuffing the trash so it can be AoE'd down...). This happens a lot in non-dlc to the point that I have quit pugging non-dlc entirely, and often on normal too (which I don't do also for that reason). Vet DLC it doesn't happen as much and when it does you can laugh as you let them die over, and over, and over again.
A real healer can buff team weapon/spell damage by 1k for the duration of the run, but normal dungeons are so easy it makes no difference, so healer just deals damage.
Tried dedicated tanking today. Other than doing no damage and being unable to kill the weakest mob on my own, no difference.
Team rushed ahead, skipped a ton of adds that slowed me down when i was trying to catch up. Burned bosses in seconds, i barely had time to taunt them (which was pointless in the end). Whole run took less than 5 min.
Community-preferred tank: does nothing useful in a dungeons, just like a healer who only heals.
Just something to think about: random normal dungeon (no dlc) average queue time for tank is instant (lets say 1 sec), for DD same queue is 300-600 sec. And when DDs finally get into the dungeon - most of the time tank is fake (another DD). So waiting 5-10 minutes in queue is better than instant queue and 3-5 min long dungeon run? I wonder why.
Wrong again. People queue as fake tanks because it helps everyone (including them) to get into the dungeon faster, and real tanks aren't needed there anyway - not to absorb damage, not to taunt.VaranisArano wrote: »Have you tried just following them? You're a "full tank", you should be able to soak some sideswipes from mobs on your way to the boss.
And as I said, if you don't the experience of DDs rushing ahead, blame the people who taught them to disregard the tank in the first place: fake tanks.
Why wait on someone who's probably not going to taunt anyway? That's what the proliferation of fake tanks taught everyone.
Even with fake tanks/healers, there is a shortage of them, so if more people fake queued to normal dungeons - it would benefit everyone.
If fake roles were taken out of queue pool - DD queue would be not 5-10 minutes, but 20-40 minutes, does anyone want it?
VaranisArano wrote: »Wrong again. People queue as fake tanks because it helps everyone (including them) to get into the dungeon faster, and real tanks aren't needed there anyway - not to absorb damage, not to taunt.VaranisArano wrote: »Have you tried just following them? You're a "full tank", you should be able to soak some sideswipes from mobs on your way to the boss.
And as I said, if you don't the experience of DDs rushing ahead, blame the people who taught them to disregard the tank in the first place: fake tanks.
Why wait on someone who's probably not going to taunt anyway? That's what the proliferation of fake tanks taught everyone.
Even with fake tanks/healers, there is a shortage of them, so if more people fake queued to normal dungeons - it would benefit everyone.
If fake roles were taken out of queue pool - DD queue would be not 5-10 minutes, but 20-40 minutes, does anyone want it?
What does this have to do with what I said?
You complained about your real tank getting stuck on mobs. You're a tank. Take the hit and keep moving.
As for your complaints about how your DDs and Healers rushing ahead made your Real Tank feel useless, you do see how Fake Tanks contribute to the problem, right?
They don't wait on their real tank because you and every other fake tank in the queue have taught them that no one is going to hold boss aggro and that most people who queue up as tank are actually fakes. There's no point in waiting on a fake who's not gonna taunt anyway.
Like, really, you and all the other fake tanks in the queue have spent years teaching all the DDs and Healers bad habits. Fake tanks who rush teach everyone else to rush to keep up with the fake. Fake tanks teach everyone else to never expect basic tank support like taunting the boss. Its pretty rich to complain now that no one waited for your Real Tank to come and taunt the boss. What did you expect?
If you queue as tank, the least you could do is slot a taunt and stay alive. You can DPS parse the boss all you want so long as you do the basic role of a tank. If you won't taunt the boss, you've got no excuse for pointing accusing fingers at DDs and Healers for making other people's dungeon runs less enjoyable while you're expecting others to facetank the boss for you.
I got into a group, where at the end of the run (before final boss) fake healer (DD) complained there is no dedicated tank and group is in trouble, which was new for me. I did many runs of normal base dungeons as 4 DDs and they were fast and efficient.
VaranisArano wrote: »Wrong again. People queue as fake tanks because it helps everyone (including them) to get into the dungeon faster, and real tanks aren't needed there anyway - not to absorb damage, not to taunt.VaranisArano wrote: »Have you tried just following them? You're a "full tank", you should be able to soak some sideswipes from mobs on your way to the boss.
And as I said, if you don't the experience of DDs rushing ahead, blame the people who taught them to disregard the tank in the first place: fake tanks.
Why wait on someone who's probably not going to taunt anyway? That's what the proliferation of fake tanks taught everyone.
Even with fake tanks/healers, there is a shortage of them, so if more people fake queued to normal dungeons - it would benefit everyone.
If fake roles were taken out of queue pool - DD queue would be not 5-10 minutes, but 20-40 minutes, does anyone want it?
What does this have to do with what I said?
You complained about your real tank getting stuck on mobs. You're a tank. Take the hit and keep moving.
As for your complaints about how your DDs and Healers rushing ahead made your Real Tank feel useless, you do see how Fake Tanks contribute to the problem, right?
They don't wait on their real tank because you and every other fake tank in the queue have taught them that no one is going to hold boss aggro and that most people who queue up as tank are actually fakes. There's no point in waiting on a fake who's not gonna taunt anyway.
Like, really, you and all the other fake tanks in the queue have spent years teaching all the DDs and Healers bad habits. Fake tanks who rush teach everyone else to rush to keep up with the fake. Fake tanks teach everyone else to never expect basic tank support like taunting the boss. Its pretty rich to complain now that no one waited for your Real Tank to come and taunt the boss. What did you expect?
If you queue as tank, the least you could do is slot a taunt and stay alive. You can DPS parse the boss all you want so long as you do the basic role of a tank. If you won't taunt the boss, you've got no excuse for pointing accusing fingers at DDs and Healers for making other people's dungeon runs less enjoyable while you're expecting others to facetank the boss for you.
Sorry, but you put the cart before the horse here. While I definitely not intend to defend fake tanks or any other behaviour which is showing a lack of respect or politeness towards teammates, queuing for the wrong role is for sure not causing bad manners from dds or healers.
Instead the described behaviour is responsible for the lack of tanks willing to queue up for activities with randoms in the first place. DDs don't need a fake tank to learn, that there is no tank needed in normal dungeons, that is done by the dungeon itself due to lack of consequences. So a lot of them choose the fastest and most efficient way for themselves to achieve their personal goals. That is rushing through the dungeon and kill only the absolute minimum necessary. The consequences of this behaviour is bearing the tank, if present. Sure, he could just pant after the group, but that isn't fun. Being kicked for complaining is neither.
Fake tanks may have their share in further solidifying selfish behaviour in groups, I won't deny that. But they are definitely not the original cause, but a result of deeper lying issues with grouping mechanics. If you can solo any given specific content, there will be some people doing it, that's a statistical fact. If you encourage this people to play said content in group (keyword is transmutes here), while refraining to set consequences for selfish behaviour, they will continue to play solo and rush through as usual.
I mean, not letting players take their quest, lack of communication in general (even greeting is treated as "waste of time") or even starting to run through the dungeon before all teammates even arrived, all of that are common complaints in random normal dungeons. Are fake tanks responsible for this too? I don't think so. It's the despicable farming mentality which has a large portion of the playerbase under control.