Stealth and Night Blades

Samadhi · May 2014

cbrown15_ESO wrote: »

Considering stealth is the tool of everyone in this game and nightblade can be any role, I am often fascinated by posts that often make nightblades out to be the rogue only class, when that is hardly the case. So why should nightblades be the only ones that have these special considerations over any other class? After all there are things that buff stealth and sneak attacks not solely related to just nightblades.

I think most of the sentiment comes from the fact that Nightblades have a dedicated Stealth skill line, but only barely do stealth better than anyone else does.

Burrick wrote: »

Cmon guys it's not that bad surely?

Stealth heavy shot, poison arrow, siphon and silver bolts and a lot of enemies are dead or close to death, been having a blast on my bow NB lately.

Regards

Orcness Neverclean

Bow was really efficient and rinse and repeat, yes.
After maxing my Bow I swapped to a full Two Handed build though; having to actually engage and sustain a fight from Melee is far more interesting.
It's a shame that Nightblade's stealth skill line is not terribly efficient in increasing the capability to do so.

lao wrote: »

...

what bothers me is all the bugs with it making you randomly reappear for no reason. also why the *** does magelight work vs it. thats absolutely braindead design. magelight should only reveal sneaking ppl but should have ZERO chance of revealing a cloaked guy. infact NOTHING should reveal a cloaked guy. absoilutely nothing. the skill costs a ton of mana as it is and half the time it doesnt even work when it clearly should.

I like that the Mark Target morph works against it. Magelight has a short enough range that it's not terribly problematic, but I can still see the basis for your concern.

Milky · May 2014

I carry Stealth detection potions with me so that whenever I see a nightblade I can completely counter them by pressing Q.

Probably not balanced..... but I don't think the stealth system is perfectly balanced either. Being able to stealth an entire zerg for an infinite amount of time in the middle of an open field is silly. I've long felt that stealth (via crouch) should only work in shaded areas and near rocks/bushes etc. I feel that only nightblade should have the ability to stealth in open fields in the bright sun etc. I also feel that you shouldn't be able to stealth and be hidden indefinitely (again, via crouch).

On top of that the detection system is bonkers! I was in an engagement at an outpost last night, I then moved all the way back to a keep (that engagement was still ongoing, I was not being chased) I was never able to stealth again because the game was still saying I was detected from all the way back at the outpost. It all needs retweaking.

awkwarrd · May 2014

Burrick wrote: »

Cmon guys it's not that bad surely?

Stealth heavy shot, poison arrow, siphon and silver bolts and a lot of enemies are dead or close to death, been having a blast on my bow NB lately.

Regards

Orcness Neverclean

So every other build sux except the bow/siphon build?
Can you please give another example of a NB doing well?

Kypho wrote: »

Unblockable hits would be overpowered imo. But just block should remove stamina regen, maybe a little drain with shields, since shield holding needs stamina, or your arms getting very tired and you cant hold it up. but maybe that would be just too realistic. Holding anything up what has moderate weight, tires your arms. and heavy armor only is would be a pain to wear. but maybe this is offtopic too ...

Yeah yer right, we would end up being "as strong as a DK or Sorc", way too much power in a NB's hands.

awkwarrd · May 2014

Milky wrote: »

Probably not balanced..... but I don't think the stealth system is perfectly balanced either. Being able to stealth an entire zerg for an infinite amount of time in the middle of an open field is silly. I've long felt that stealth (via crouch) should only work in shaded areas and near rocks/bushes etc. I feel that only nightblade should have the ability to stealth in open fields in the bright sun etc. I also feel that you shouldn't be able to stealth and be hidden indefinitely (again, via crouch).

It's funny how you can hide an army by crouch.
Although there are so many bugs with it.
Like the radius of detection, it's broken with alot of passives.

Example1:
You may have passive abilities that reduce the radius of being detected, but it doesn't.
You may have passives that increase the radius to detect, but doesn't.

Example2:
It doesn't increase the radius of detection when you are beside another bunch of crouched players, so the more people crouched around you, the bigger the detection radius.
Entire armies can hide right under your nose.

Milky wrote: »

On top of that the detection system is bonkers! I was in an engagement at an outpost last night, I then moved all the way back to a keep (that engagement was still ongoing, I was not being chased) I was never able to stealth again because the game was still saying I was detected from all the way back at the outpost. It all needs retweaking.

Welcome to the NB dilemma, the class that is supposed to own the stealth, often can't because something says he can't.

Majority of the time it's that dead guy who won't release from his corpse.
Or that NPC guard who spotted you from a mile away even while you were crouched.

lao · May 2014

Milky wrote: »

I carry Stealth detection potions with me so that whenever I see a nightblade I can completely counter them by pressing Q.

Probably not balanced..... but I don't think the stealth system is perfectly balanced either. Being able to stealth an entire zerg for an infinite amount of time in the middle of an open field is silly. I've long felt that stealth (via crouch) should only work in shaded areas and near rocks/bushes etc. I feel that only nightblade should have the ability to stealth in open fields in the bright sun etc. I also feel that you shouldn't be able to stealth and be hidden indefinitely (again, via crouch).

On top of that the detection system is bonkers! I was in an engagement at an outpost last night, I then moved all the way back to a keep (that engagement was still ongoing, I was not being chased) I was never able to stealth again because the game was still saying I was detected from all the way back at the outpost. It all needs retweaking.

beeing able to stealth indefinitely is a must. the restriction that u lose stamina when u move is already bad but i can live with that. id instantly quit if they replaced that almost perfect version we got atm with something *** like warhammer stealth.

however u got a point with the zerg beeing able to hide anywhere. sneak should only be available to NB. the fact that everyone can stealth is again completely braindead game design.

and yea the detection system is completely broken. like when im trying to find other stealthers i can tell that they are there by the indicator opening to some extend. however i can remain there forever not moving right next to another guy and we will never spot each other.

also the restealth timer is completely broken. it should be a flat 10 secs out of combat timer. its blowing my mind how DAoC had it perfectly right 14 years ago and eso has the main guy behind DAoC as lead developer and still they seem incapable of just copying a perfect system.

it just feels like the only class that somewhat requires some talent didnt get any attention whatsoever during the game´s development. instead they focussed on making easymode classes like sorc and dk to please the retar......errr i mean zerglings.....wait no i mean lesser experienced players

Milky · May 2014

lao wrote: »

show previous quotes

Milky wrote: »

I carry Stealth detection potions with me so that whenever I see a nightblade I can completely counter them by pressing Q.

Probably not balanced..... but I don't think the stealth system is perfectly balanced either. Being able to stealth an entire zerg for an infinite amount of time in the middle of an open field is silly. I've long felt that stealth (via crouch) should only work in shaded areas and near rocks/bushes etc. I feel that only nightblade should have the ability to stealth in open fields in the bright sun etc. I also feel that you shouldn't be able to stealth and be hidden indefinitely (again, via crouch).

On top of that the detection system is bonkers! I was in an engagement at an outpost last night, I then moved all the way back to a keep (that engagement was still ongoing, I was not being chased) I was never able to stealth again because the game was still saying I was detected from all the way back at the outpost. It all needs retweaking.

beeing able to stealth indefinitely is a must. the restriction that u lose stamina when u move is already bad but i can live with that. id instantly quit if they replaced that almost perfect version we got atm with something *** like warhammer stealth.

however u got a point with the zerg beeing able to hide anywhere. sneak should only be available to NB. the fact that everyone can stealth is again completely braindead game design.

It needs to come at a higher cost then. Make it so stamina regens much slower in stealth as well. It seems silly that as a player in heavy armor, I can stealth an incredible distance, then just stop for 3 seconds and be fine on stamina again. The light armor move speed in stealth set bonus is pretty absurd too.

I don't think it should be available only to NB, but I think NB should have more ways of stealthing, and more advantages than someone playing one of the other 3 classes when it comes to stealth. Like sorcs, DKs and templars can only stealth outside of objectives, near rocks, trees, and bushes. Then nightblade would have stealthing in open fields and inside keeps etc reserved only for them.

Yasha · May 2014

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Teleport strike, vielled strike, and a heavy attack to knock down is devastating to open with as a sneak attack chain.

Personally I don't even use the 2.5 sec invisible ability as its magika cost would just be better used as another vielled strike imo.

I don't understand how this combo works- after TP strike you come out of stealth so veiled strike doesn't stun and heavy attack won't knock down please explain how it works.

Honfold · May 2014

Yasha wrote: »

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Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Teleport strike, vielled strike, and a heavy attack to knock down is devastating to open with as a sneak attack chain.

Personally I don't even use the 2.5 sec invisible ability as its magika cost would just be better used as another vielled strike imo.

I don't understand how this combo works- after TP strike you come out of stealth so veiled strike doesn't stun and heavy attack won't knock down please explain how it works.

Probably Means:
Ambush>Cloak>Veiled Strike> Heavy attack

However If this is against anyone paying attention, the enemy will be gone or have a strong anti CC up during the cloak phase.

lao · May 2014

Honfold wrote: »

show previous quotes

Yasha wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Teleport strike, vielled strike, and a heavy attack to knock down is devastating to open with as a sneak attack chain.

Personally I don't even use the 2.5 sec invisible ability as its magika cost would just be better used as another vielled strike imo.

I don't understand how this combo works- after TP strike you come out of stealth so veiled strike doesn't stun and heavy attack won't knock down please explain how it works.

Probably Means:
Ambush>Cloak>Veiled Strike> Heavy attack

However If this is against anyone paying attention, the enemy will be gone or have a strong anti CC up during the cloak phase.

its ambush>cloak>surprise attack>heavy attack+surprise attack+bash>light attack+soul harvest+bash>light attack+killers blade.

u cant use any defensive cd reliably during the cloak phase cos ambush stuns the target for 1.5secs which is more than enough to cloak+surprise attack if the lag gods are with you on that day.

PS: to that other guy who said he doesnt use cloak. well u havent understood the class mechanics then. the cloak is the most important move in that opener. it gives u an auto crit on surprise attack and also makes it stun. ambush if used from behind and from stealth is also an autocrit that can sometimes (extremely rarely) hit for 1400 dmg. not sure if thats a bug or intended. normal crit is around 600-800 depending on ur opponents spell resist.

NOTE JUST TO AVOID CONFUSION. if u use dark cloak over shadowy disguise it is very likely that u suffer from a severe case of down syndrome and i suggest medical treatment immediately.

if executed perfectly that combo is ~3.5-4k dmg with a 2h sword. and that is calculated with low crits. u can easily break 5k with a few lucky crits on a guy with bad gear.

however it is somewhat easily countered. all the guy needs to do is break the knockdown and throw some self heal and use one of the many spells that keep buggy cloak from working again. literally any aoe will do.

ChampionSheWolf · May 2014

Zubba wrote: »

[NightBlade class skills will pretty much only do damge from stealth/invisible rear attacks.

I must be doing somethign wrogn on my nightblade tankt hen because I don't need rear attacks to do damage. Darn me and my ability to actually play the game.

NakedSnake wrote: »

Why? for the same reason Templars are the only dedicated healers in this game.

Hrmm, I didn't know people could ahve spontaneous class changes in the middle of game play, because I had a DK healer the other night for my nightblade tank, and before that I had a nightblade healer with my nightblade tank.

lao · May 2014

cbrown15_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

Zubba wrote: »

[NightBlade class skills will pretty much only do damge from stealth/invisible rear attacks.

I must be doing somethign wrogn on my nightblade tankt hen because I don't need rear attacks to do damage. Darn me and my ability to actually play the game.
show previous quotes

NakedSnake wrote: »

Why? for the same reason Templars are the only dedicated healers in this game.

Hrmm, I didn't know people could ahve spontaneous class changes in the middle of game play, because I had a DK healer the other night for my nightblade tank, and before that I had a nightblade healer with my nightblade tank.

^the kind of ppl that should stick to pve.

the difference between ambush in the face and ambush in the back is 600-1100 dmg just fyi. u probably would take a while to figure that out.

your welcome.

awkwarrd · May 2014

lao wrote: »

the difference between ambush in the face and ambush in the back is 600-1100 dmg just fyi.

Actually its more like 350-800.
Not sure what's changed recently, but the damage has been lowered.

NakedSnake · May 2014

I don't agree that NB should be the only class that can sneak, however stealth and sneaking should be two separate things.

NB needs a couple things to make them truly viable and unique.
-Shadow cloak should remove agro and roots as well as persist through sprinting and aoe's that don't add a status effect like off balance. (This will give us an escape on par with sorc bolt while still being a unique ability.)
-One of the NB attacks needs to be an in combat stun (Veiled strike could have a 2 second stun if in combat and a 4 second + off balance if stealthed.)

I love my NB but their role in this game needs to be re-examined.

@Lao are you serious? Dark cloak is the best move a Nightblade has.

Yasha · May 2014

Honfold wrote: »

show previous quotes

Yasha wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Teleport strike, vielled strike, and a heavy attack to knock down is devastating to open with as a sneak attack chain.

Personally I don't even use the 2.5 sec invisible ability as its magika cost would just be better used as another vielled strike imo.

I don't understand how this combo works- after TP strike you come out of stealth so veiled strike doesn't stun and heavy attack won't knock down please explain how it works.

Probably Means:
Ambush>Cloak>Veiled Strike> Heavy attack

However If this is against anyone paying attention, the enemy will be gone or have a strong anti CC up during the cloak phase.

That's what I would have expected, but he says that he doesn't use the "the 2.5 sec invisible ability ", so I don't understand how his set up is "devastating to open with as a sneak attack chain" -or indeed how any of what he suggests works.

BTW- my teleport strike from stealth only seems to root players in pvp- do you guys get a stun on players?

lao · May 2014

awkwarrd wrote: »

show previous quotes

lao wrote: »

the difference between ambush in the face and ambush in the back is 600-1100 dmg just fyi.

Actually its more like 350-800.
Not sure what's changed recently, but the damage has been lowered.

ambush in the back from stealth will very rarley if ever hit below 800. ambush in the face will very rarely hit above 240

however ambush has this weird potential to hit for 1.4k. i havent quite figured out how and when that happens yet. for now i assume its just RNG or a bug.

Cydone · May 2014

Yasha wrote: »

show previous quotes

Honfold wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Teleport strike, vielled strike, and a heavy attack to knock down is devastating to open with as a sneak attack chain.

Personally I don't even use the 2.5 sec invisible ability as its magika cost would just be better used as another vielled strike imo.

I don't understand how this combo works- after TP strike you come out of stealth so veiled strike doesn't stun and heavy attack won't knock down please explain how it works.

Probably Means:
Ambush>Cloak>Veiled Strike> Heavy attack

However If this is against anyone paying attention, the enemy will be gone or have a strong anti CC up during the cloak phase.

That's what I would have expected, but he says that he doesn't use the "the 2.5 sec invisible ability ", so I don't understand how his set up is "devastating to open with as a sneak attack chain" -or indeed how any of what he suggests works.

BTW- my teleport strike from stealth only seems to root players in pvp- do you guys get a stun on players?

Every now and then the stun works. Then heavy attack as a knockdown. Even then, you HAVE to get everything right. If you mess up in your rotation even a lil and the other person is even halfway competent, you will probably either die or have to GTFO.

Chirru · May 2014

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

i use duel wield "Daggers" not the bow, not the things your suggesting.
i dont want your suggestions on a build. i want the "nightblade" key word "blade" as in blades" daggers" skill line fixed.
duel wield - knightblade-

I agree with this. Sure, the NB does reasonably well as half a Sorc...and ranged, and also well as a ranged bow-shot. however, in close up blade fights with three enemies it gets hairy indeed.

sure... I can out-level and be two thee levels higher... but that is not the point, is it. The point is that dual wield is the weakest skill in comparison to DK for example.

Yes, I can play the NB as half a DK or half a Templar. Pump plenty of points and food into health and take a 2h or 1h and shield and siphoning health. It works well... and yet... the Sneaking aspect of the class gets lost in the process.
As a fact... my DK can take 3 (and more) enemies easily and the Sorc with her pets also. No, NB is not a bad Character to play. The dual wield skills however are weak and broken.

Yasha · May 2014

Cydone wrote: »

show previous quotes

Yasha wrote: »

Honfold wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Teleport strike, vielled strike, and a heavy attack to knock down is devastating to open with as a sneak attack chain.

Personally I don't even use the 2.5 sec invisible ability as its magika cost would just be better used as another vielled strike imo.

I don't understand how this combo works- after TP strike you come out of stealth so veiled strike doesn't stun and heavy attack won't knock down please explain how it works.

Probably Means:
Ambush>Cloak>Veiled Strike> Heavy attack

However If this is against anyone paying attention, the enemy will be gone or have a strong anti CC up during the cloak phase.

That's what I would have expected, but he says that he doesn't use the "the 2.5 sec invisible ability ", so I don't understand how his set up is "devastating to open with as a sneak attack chain" -or indeed how any of what he suggests works.

BTW- my teleport strike from stealth only seems to root players in pvp- do you guys get a stun on players?

Every now and then the stun works. Then heavy attack as a knockdown. Even then, you HAVE to get everything right. If you mess up in your rotation even a lil and the other person is even halfway competent, you will probably either die or have to GTFO.

Hmm, I think I have too much lag for it to work properly anyway- I can't get a heavy attack off during the stun time of ambush even in pve.

lao · May 2014

NakedSnake wrote: »

I don't agree that NB should be the only class that can sneak, however stealth and sneaking should be two separate things.

NB needs a couple things to make them truly viable and unique.
-Shadow cloak should remove agro and roots as well as persist through sprinting and aoe's that don't add a status effect like off balance. (This will give us an escape on par with sorc bolt while still being a unique ability.)
-One of the NB attacks needs to be an in combat stun (Veiled strike could have a 2 second stun if in combat and a 4 second + off balance if stealthed.)

I love my NB but their role in this game needs to be re-examined.

@Lao are you serious? Dark cloak is the best move a Nightblade has.

2secs anytime stun on veiled strike LOL yes please gimmeh some of dat. on a serious note: that would be ridiculously overpowered beyond all belief.

regarding dark cloak vs shadowy disguise. lets see 100% crit chance on next attack vs purge all dots which u wont have on you on inc anyways mhhhh. yep doesnt take a genius to figure out that dark cloak is complete trash compared to the alternative. even in midfight ill take a guaranteed 600-800 dmg veiled strike over purging dots that hit for close to nothing anyways. also nothing stops ur opponent from instantly reapplying dots the moment u purge them. if ur having trouble with dots use a pot lol. NB is not about survivability. we lack the tools to sustain long fights so the goal is to do as much dmg as possible as quick as possible.

TL:DR: shadowy disguise is infinity times better than dark cloak. its not even a comparison.

NakedSnake · May 2014

It really is not overpowered at all considering the immunity afterwards. One of you will most likely be dead by the time you can use it again. Im willing to accept a 1 sec stun if it bothers you that much.
As for shadowy disguise, getting an instant crit on your next attack sounds nice but you will most likely only use it once maybe twice each fight. While this is a huge benefit to your dps on a single target. It still does not outway the ability to remove a harmful burn or poison. As you stated, NB lacks survivability and DC helps that a great deal. Simply because you play NB as a kamikaze ganker does not mean we all have to.

lao · May 2014

NakedSnake wrote: »

It really is not overpowered at all considering the immunity afterwards. One of you will most likely be dead by the time you can use it again. Im willing to accept a 1 sec stun if it bothers you that much.
As for shadowy disguise, getting an instant crit on your next attack sounds nice but you will most likely only use it once maybe twice each fight. While this is a huge benefit to your dps on a single target. It still does not outway the ability to remove a harmful burn or poison. As you stated, NB lacks survivability and DC helps that a great deal. Simply because you play NB as a kamikaze ganker does not mean we all have to.

if dots would be on a cooldown yes u were right it would help. would still not outweight the alternative tho. the way it is its a complete waste to go DC tho as anyone remotely good will realize his dots vanished and will instantly reapply them.
therefor its not rly a question of preference. its simply a matter of mechanics especially cos u can counter dots pretty well with a pot.

if u wanna win fights by outlasting the opponent u should roll a DK.
NB is quite awful at that. the dps potential on SD is simply way too good to ditch. u can also use it to get a 100% crit on soul harvest which hits for ridiculous dmg. this also adds a little extra synergy as soul harvest also reduces healing by 50%. (ur opponent will likely wanna heal himself after taking a ~1k dmg hit)

also the ability to very quickly drop a target is the only thing NB has over a DK or a temp. not utilizing that is simply not very smart.

now if u still wanna play the class in a different way thats obviously ur thing. im not here to tell you how to play ur char. im simply telling you what the optimal spec is. wether or not you wanna use that is entirely your decision.

NakedSnake · May 2014

Yes, feel free to reapply your dots while I surprise attack your life away, If you can after I stun>knockdown. There are many ways to skin a cat my friend.

lao · May 2014

NakedSnake wrote: »

Yes, feel free to reapply your dots while I surprise attack your life away, If you can after I stun>knockdown. There are many ways to skin a cat my friend.

k whatever, either u dont want to understand or ur not capable.

either way i give up. gn

Grim13 · May 2014

You know stealth is severely broken in this game when you can Shadow Cloak 3 times in a row, to escape an NPC Guard, by going around behind a building, breaking line of sight, only to have them magically deduce where you are after your invisibilty ends...

facepalm

Many issues would be fixed if Zenimax added a line of sight mechanic to sneaking that allowed a NB to re-enter stealth if he's broken LOS from his enemy.

NakedSnake · May 2014

lao wrote: »

show previous quotes

NakedSnake wrote: »

Yes, feel free to reapply your dots while I surprise attack your life away, If you can after I stun>knockdown. There are many ways to skin a cat my friend.

k whatever, either u dont want to understand or ur not capable.

either way i give up. gn

Jawohl, Mein Führer!

TheBull · May 2014

Make invis break stuns/immobilize or give short stun/immobilize immunity and fix the damn 1-1.5 sec delay on the use of skills after you invis.

Starshadw · May 2014

Crouch-stealth for all classes is a part of the game, and we have to accept that.

That said, Zen could give the NB class more bonuses to the crouch-stealth:

further reduced stamina cost
greater stealth radius
complete and true stealth against resource/keep NPCs
ability to maintain stealth even when in a large group (see below)
stealth not broken on damage
stealth not broken if the character has a DoT
chance to not be seen, even by Magelight - note I said "chance," not 100%

and/or

add some penalties to crouch-stealth for non-NBs:

greater stamina cost
reduced stealth radius overall
further reduced stealth radius when in a group
inability to re-stealth during a siege once your stealth has been broken - this would deal with the issue of large parts of an army being stealthed. At the least, there should be a time period before you can re-stealth: 10 minutes, or completely leaving the area entirely (so if you're at a keep, you'd have to go out past the boundaries of the three resources and then come back)
stealth broken upon receiving damage (so an AOE always brings a non-NB out of stealth)

The one thing that I do think needs to be changed is the ability to crouch-stealth in heavy armor. That needs to go. Heavy armor should not allow for any sort of stealth at all - no NB Shadow/stealth skills, no crouch-stealth, nothing. Players should have to choose: the added protection of heavy armor, or the added protection of stealth. Not both.

Honfold · May 2014

lao wrote: »

show previous quotes

NakedSnake wrote: »

I don't agree that NB should be the only class that can sneak, however stealth and sneaking should be two separate things.

NB needs a couple things to make them truly viable and unique.
-Shadow cloak should remove agro and roots as well as persist through sprinting and aoe's that don't add a status effect like off balance. (This will give us an escape on par with sorc bolt while still being a unique ability.)
-One of the NB attacks needs to be an in combat stun (Veiled strike could have a 2 second stun if in combat and a 4 second + off balance if stealthed.)

I love my NB but their role in this game needs to be re-examined.

@Lao are you serious? Dark cloak is the best move a Nightblade has.

2secs anytime stun on veiled strike LOL yes please gimmeh some of dat. on a serious note: that would be ridiculously overpowered beyond all belief.

regarding dark cloak vs shadowy disguise. lets see 100% crit chance on next attack vs purge all dots which u wont have on you on inc anyways mhhhh. yep doesnt take a genius to figure out that dark cloak is complete trash compared to the alternative. even in midfight ill take a guaranteed 600-800 dmg veiled strike over purging dots that hit for close to nothing anyways. also nothing stops ur opponent from instantly reapplying dots the moment u purge them. if ur having trouble with dots use a pot lol. NB is not about survivability. we lack the tools to sustain long fights so the goal is to do as much dmg as possible as quick as possible.

TL:DR: shadowy disguise is infinity times better than dark cloak. its not even a comparison.

Both have their benefits. I use dark cloak in PvP and it helps out a great deal in my opinion, for my build right now. I use it for defense of keeps, I will run of the wall stealth harass the enemy until they start to DOT me then I use the Dark Cloak to run back inside. For attacks on keeps I use it to get the multiple catapult DOTs off me.

lao · May 2014

Honfold wrote: »

show previous quotes

lao wrote: »

NakedSnake wrote: »

I don't agree that NB should be the only class that can sneak, however stealth and sneaking should be two separate things.

NB needs a couple things to make them truly viable and unique.
-Shadow cloak should remove agro and roots as well as persist through sprinting and aoe's that don't add a status effect like off balance. (This will give us an escape on par with sorc bolt while still being a unique ability.)
-One of the NB attacks needs to be an in combat stun (Veiled strike could have a 2 second stun if in combat and a 4 second + off balance if stealthed.)

I love my NB but their role in this game needs to be re-examined.

@Lao are you serious? Dark cloak is the best move a Nightblade has.

2secs anytime stun on veiled strike LOL yes please gimmeh some of dat. on a serious note: that would be ridiculously overpowered beyond all belief.

regarding dark cloak vs shadowy disguise. lets see 100% crit chance on next attack vs purge all dots which u wont have on you on inc anyways mhhhh. yep doesnt take a genius to figure out that dark cloak is complete trash compared to the alternative. even in midfight ill take a guaranteed 600-800 dmg veiled strike over purging dots that hit for close to nothing anyways. also nothing stops ur opponent from instantly reapplying dots the moment u purge them. if ur having trouble with dots use a pot lol. NB is not about survivability. we lack the tools to sustain long fights so the goal is to do as much dmg as possible as quick as possible.

TL:DR: shadowy disguise is infinity times better than dark cloak. its not even a comparison.

Both have their benefits. I use dark cloak in PvP and it helps out a great deal in my opinion, for my build right now. I use it for defense of keeps, I will run of the wall stealth harass the enemy until they start to DOT me then I use the Dark Cloak to run back inside. For attacks on keeps I use it to get the multiple catapult DOTs off me.

i was talking about the effectiveness in pvp tho.

roleplaying at/around keeps != pvp.

what u describe is in no way a competitive pvp situation. its just the typical objective based crap that ruins every mmo these days. i come from oldschool real pvp mmos so i do not even count that as a factor when making a build as i will never ever be found in such a situation as its the most boring and skilless *** ever to be introduced to mmos.

if its fun for you thats great and all and nothing wrong with it but its not pvp and this discussion was about proper builds in pvp. just to make this perfectly clear pvp means Player vs Player, not player vs guard or player vs trebuchet or player vs door. thats just stupid stuff that was added onto the genre when the great influx of noobs came to the genre with the release of WoW so they could have something to play around with without instantly getting 10seconded by any group consisting of actual pvpers. prior to games like WoW and warhammer objectives were never a factor in any pvp game. oh how i miss those days

Cydone · May 2014

lao wrote: »

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Honfold wrote: »

lao wrote: »

NakedSnake wrote: »

I don't agree that NB should be the only class that can sneak, however stealth and sneaking should be two separate things.

NB needs a couple things to make them truly viable and unique.
-Shadow cloak should remove agro and roots as well as persist through sprinting and aoe's that don't add a status effect like off balance. (This will give us an escape on par with sorc bolt while still being a unique ability.)
-One of the NB attacks needs to be an in combat stun (Veiled strike could have a 2 second stun if in combat and a 4 second + off balance if stealthed.)

I love my NB but their role in this game needs to be re-examined.

@Lao are you serious? Dark cloak is the best move a Nightblade has.

2secs anytime stun on veiled strike LOL yes please gimmeh some of dat. on a serious note: that would be ridiculously overpowered beyond all belief.

regarding dark cloak vs shadowy disguise. lets see 100% crit chance on next attack vs purge all dots which u wont have on you on inc anyways mhhhh. yep doesnt take a genius to figure out that dark cloak is complete trash compared to the alternative. even in midfight ill take a guaranteed 600-800 dmg veiled strike over purging dots that hit for close to nothing anyways. also nothing stops ur opponent from instantly reapplying dots the moment u purge them. if ur having trouble with dots use a pot lol. NB is not about survivability. we lack the tools to sustain long fights so the goal is to do as much dmg as possible as quick as possible.

TL:DR: shadowy disguise is infinity times better than dark cloak. its not even a comparison.

Both have their benefits. I use dark cloak in PvP and it helps out a great deal in my opinion, for my build right now. I use it for defense of keeps, I will run of the wall stealth harass the enemy until they start to DOT me then I use the Dark Cloak to run back inside. For attacks on keeps I use it to get the multiple catapult DOTs off me.

i was talking about the effectiveness in pvp tho.

roleplaying at/around keeps != pvp.

what u describe is in no way a competitive pvp situation. its just the typical objective based crap that ruins every mmo these days. i come from oldschool real pvp mmos so i do not even count that as a factor when making a build as i will never ever be found in such a situation as its the most boring and skilless *** ever to be introduced to mmos.

if its fun for you thats great and all and nothing wrong with it but its not pvp and this discussion was about proper builds in pvp. just to make this perfectly clear pvp means Player vs Player, not player vs guard or player vs trebuchet or player vs door. thats just stupid stuff that was added onto the genre when the great influx of noobs came to the genre with the release of WoW so they could have something to play around with without instantly getting 10seconded by any group consisting of actual pvpers. prior to games like WoW and warhammer objectives were never a factor in any pvp game. oh how i miss those days

Dark cloak is good if you are going healer. Yes, NB can be a healer.....I have it as my build right now for testing and it's pretty good. Have 3 heals, immoveable and dark cloak. DoT clearing for myself and immunity to CC and pulls. If I was going DPS though, Shadowy disguise would be the only choice really.