[PvE] Rollback the CW changes

Zastrix · July 2023

Nightblades are bottom-tier DDs in PvE endgame content. They have DoTs which all of them have different timings, they have a minigame of LAs to stack a burst damage but still do bottom single target damage, where sometimes even sorcs can outdps them.

Stamina versions are unplayable because they're literally trash however you try to play it but you could still do some damage with using CW for the 10% damage buff and then a 2h spammable for additional 10% damage.

Magicka version was basically keeping afloat because of the 10% damage buff from their spammable.

Now with the new changes CW is redundant if you have 2 sorcs using greater storm atronach and the stamina NB will loose all form of buffs from 2H and CW from that.

If you want CW to NOT be used passively then make Veiled Strike have the 10% damage buff towards monsters and then both SA and CW can be used actively. Nerfing CW in PvE is not a solution to make it be used actively. I'd rather use the vampire spammable than CW if I have 2 sorcs in the group rather than using CW now.

Rollback the changes or just move the 10% damage to veiled strike and add a line that the buff only works towards monsters if you really want to balance it for PvP.

Edit:

This is a thread for PvE, your comment won't be looked it has something like 'nigthblade is too op' because that's only maybe true for PvP (it isn't but that's a different issue), while it's the opposite for PvE.

StaticWave · July 2023

Correct me if I'm wrong but why can't they just buff NB class DoTs instead? As far as I know, nobody in PvP is running class DoTs on NB.

Sikon · July 2023

Agree with you on that. Just taking away the 10% Damage boost fixed the Problem for ZOS that "Concealed Weapon" was used as a "Buff up Skill" rather than an Anytimer.
But just taking completely away a high ressource of Nightblade damage does make the class suffer even more in PvE ^^.

I mean even before they implement the 10% Damage Boost on "Concealed Weapon" (guess it was Lost Depths U35) Nightblades were not struggling like that much in PvE.
They just made so many adjustements to classes/passives/weapons that NBs suffered alot from it compared to other DDs. So the 10% unique Damage boost was a necessary thing for Nightblades.

Now it is gone too.. will be hard times but you can see ZOS is addressing the Nightblades alot. Hope there will be a good solution soon.

Zastrix · July 2023

StaticWave wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but why can't they just buff NB class DoTs instead? As far as I know, nobody in PvP is running class DoTs on NB.

And you completely ignored the [title] of the thread and the [last part] of the initial post. Ignored.

StaticWave · July 2023

Zastrix wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but why can't they just buff NB class DoTs instead? As far as I know, nobody in PvP is running class DoTs on NB.

And you completely ignored the [title] of the thread and the [last part] of the initial post. Ignored.

Lol I didn't ignore your title or the last part of the initial post. It's really not that difficult to balance PvE NB.

You said this:

Zastrix wrote: »

They have DoTs which all of them have different timings. They have a minigame of LAs to stack a burst damage but still do bottom single target damage.

So I asked why not just buff NB DoTs so they all have the same timing and maybe deal extra damage? Stamsorc essentially has the same rotation as a NB by light weaving a spammable and building Bound Armaments with recasting DoTs in between.

Lykeion · July 2023

There are multiple reasons why PVE NBs are at a disadvantage right now, and rollbacks don't solve much of the problem.
1. Magicka sustains problems caused by maintaining CW. This is a huge burden for Stamblade in particular, and I hope dev considers modifying CW to also consume max resources, as they did with the new mechanic they introduced in Arcanist. This is considering the fact that the new SA they've given still has no advantage over CW.

2. PVE NB has many, many skils/buffs to monitor. PVP NB has flexible ways to trigger CW buffs but PVE NB is strictly limited to active triggers, while also monitoring Grim Focus, Deadly Strike, and even Shadow Path (due to its linkage with CW). It's a class that absolute pain to play, cuz you'll always have to keep a close eye on your dynamic rotation

3. NB lacks the ability to contribute to a team. Warden and Necro are also bad in PVE DPS now in general, but they both offer unique and powerful team buffs, which makes them popular healers/supporting DPS. NB offers almost no unique team buffs though. Maybe it's time to add some team-wise skills to NB. Would it be a good idea to give the long-forgotten Consuming Darkness a Major Brittle?

Soarora · July 2023

The one and probably only plus side is I can stop being salty that wardens got their unique % damage done stolen and given to nightblades. We suffer together. Zos refused to give us our passive back, I doubt they’re reverting this.

Zastrix · July 2023

Lykeion wrote: »

There are multiple reasons why PVE NBs are at a disadvantage right now, and rollbacks don't solve much of the problem.
1. Magicka sustains problems caused by maintaining CW. This is a huge burden for Stamblade in particular, and I hope dev considers modifying CW to also consume max resources, as they did with the new mechanic they introduced in Arcanist. This is considering the fact that the new SA they've given still has no advantage over CW.

2. PVE NB has many, many skils/buffs to monitor. PVP NB has flexible ways to trigger CW buffs but PVE NB is strictly limited to active triggers, while also monitoring Grim Focus, Deadly Strike, and even Shadow Path (due to its linkage with CW). It's a class that absolute pain to play, cuz you'll always have to keep a close eye on your dynamic rotation

3. NB lacks the ability to contribute to a team. Warden and Necro are also bad in PVE DPS now in general, but they both offer unique and powerful team buffs, which makes them popular healers/supporting DPS. NB offers almost no unique team buffs though. Maybe it's time to add some team-wise skills to NB. Would it be a good idea to give the long-forgotten Consuming Darkness a Major Brittle?

1) That's a stambalde and not a nightblade issue in general. Moving the 10% buff to the base skill would fix it.
2) Yep but that does make it interesting to play (if the class damage in general wasn't bottom tier)
3) Only minor savagery but one nightblade can give it to the whole group, so a nightblade healer.

Just giving the 10% damage to the base skill can make *blades no suck insanely while keeping the spammable active rather than how passive it was on stamblades. On nerf DKs to normalize every class.

Lykeion · July 2023

Zastrix wrote: »

1) That's a stambalde and not a nightblade issue in general. Moving the 10% buff to the base skill would fix it.
2) Yep but that does make it interesting to play (if the class damage in general wasn't bottom tier)
3) Only minor savagery but one nightblade can give it to the whole group, so a nightblade healer.

Yes minor savagery is indeed unique to NB, but thanks to Hybrid, sorc's minor prophecy is no different from it, and sorc can provide major berserke to the group. The only thing that makes NB healer unique is the extra ult that its Catalyst skill provides, but that's hardly comparable to a group major berserke.

Dojohoda · July 2023

Move the damage back into the passives where it used to be a few years ago.

Zastrix · July 2023

Dojohoda wrote: »

Move the damage back into the passives where it used to be a few years ago.

Yeah that would be okay, you could then properly use a bow or a staff build.

ESO_Nightingale · July 2023

Lykeion wrote: »

There are multiple reasons why PVE NBs are at a disadvantage right now, and rollbacks don't solve much of the problem.
1. Magicka sustains problems caused by maintaining CW. This is a huge burden for Stamblade in particular, and I hope dev considers modifying CW to also consume max resources, as they did with the new mechanic they introduced in Arcanist. This is considering the fact that the new SA they've given still has no advantage over CW.

2. PVE NB has many, many skils/buffs to monitor. PVP NB has flexible ways to trigger CW buffs but PVE NB is strictly limited to active triggers, while also monitoring Grim Focus, Deadly Strike, and even Shadow Path (due to its linkage with CW). It's a class that absolute pain to play, cuz you'll always have to keep a close eye on your dynamic rotation

3. NB lacks the ability to contribute to a team. Warden and Necro are also bad in PVE DPS now in general, but they both offer unique and powerful team buffs, which makes them popular healers/supporting DPS. NB offers almost no unique team buffs though. Maybe it's time to add some team-wise skills to NB. Would it be a good idea to give the long-forgotten Consuming Darkness a Major Brittle?

even dps warden struggles to give it's own class buff to the group, relying on healing allies to proc minor toughness has proven over the last several years that dps are not well suited towards applying minor toughness to the group, because of this, and because healer wardens have great access to other buffs, it really just has created a situation where you only really ever want to take a healer warden in your group composition concerning wardens. sacrificing a skill slot for lotus blossom is terrible for our already lacking dps and it's extremely slow and inefficient at applying minor toughness to our group. in addition our sustain passive called nature's gift can only be obtained as a dps through lotus blossom which does not provide a useful enough buff or effect to be slotted, only offering a single target heal on light attacks which only serves to do a bit of passive healing in addition to proccing our passives, and it provides the major crit buffs which we already obtain through damage potions and inner light/camo hunter.

Regarding other group buffs that we apply, major and minor breach are already in abundance, minor brittle is applied by tanks and healers with little issue, minor vulnerability is probably our most useful addition, however, application through group sourced concussed is able to offset it, or, if necessary, it can be run with no problems on healer warden by just slotting and using fetcher infection.

going back to minor toughness and nature's gift, we're in a position where we are, unlike most other classes, unable to access most of our passives in one of our trees, one that deals with sustain and group support which heavily limits our benefits to the group which is a seperate issue from our current lack of dps.

Jaimeh · July 2023

There's been countless discussions over two years' worth of PTS cycles about NB dps needing reworking, but they keep gimping the class, so my only takeaway at this point is that it's because they simply want to. And frankly it's such a pity, because this class is tailor-made to dps (at least it used to be), and for the past couple of years it's just limping behind in damage with a rotation that has become even more complicated because of the DOT timers being all over the place. A major contributing factor has been the ongoing SA/CW tweaking, and ever since PvE stam specs in particular were gutted. If you check ESO logs for the last year for top groups you will only see NBs as healers and for groups in general their damage is subpar. I really wish @ZOS_BrianWheeler and @ZOS_Gilliam would see how bad they are right now and have been for a long time on the PvE side of things, and at the very least rework Surprise Attack to give one spec a competitive spammable alternative without the need to slot a skill passively.