Nightblade Nerf

trippcap · July 2023

The change to veiled strike is not large enough to make up for the huge nerf this class just received. In making this a named buff, in the wake of making major berserk more accessible through the atro synergy, nightblade effectively are just losing the 10% damage buff altogether. And that's just for magicka users who use it as a spammable. Stamina builds were utilizing the magicka morph as well simply because of how lacking veiled strike was. These changes need to be larger for veiled strike to be considered over an entire 10% dps increase. Either way, this was not necessary, and works against the recent combat vision the devs shared of bringing up sorcs and nightblades single target damage. For both specs this reduces it. Please revert it back to simply giving a unique 10% damage buff, and preferably just change it to give its bonuses while on your bar, not after a 10 second use.

JerBearESO · July 2023

This is fine. NB gained a skill slot already, so this is perfectly fine and allows stam blades to feel ok actually using their spammable.

This is fine

DrNukenstein · July 2023

The 10% damage buff being unnamed was one of the things putting nightblade damage over the edge lately, making it named brings the class within bounds without a more severe nerf.

It's not like Major Berserk is a mediocre buff either. It's one of those Cadillac buffs that used to be locked behind more complex conditions. That the class can sustain this buff just by using the recommended spammable is a big deal. It's arguably better than wrecking blow berserk since there is no cast time.

All in all a step in the right direction for the class even if it makes them ~10% less supportable. Arguably especially if it makes them ~10% less supportable.

emilyhyoyeon · July 2023

classic PVE PVP incompatibility

trippcap · July 2023

DrNukenstein wrote: »

The 10% damage buff being unnamed was one of the things putting nightblade damage over the edge lately, making it named brings the class within bounds without a more severe nerf.

It's not like Major Berserk is a mediocre buff either. It's one of those Cadillac buffs that used to be locked behind more complex conditions. That the class can sustain this buff just by using the recommended spammable is a big deal. It's arguably better than wrecking blow berserk since there is no cast time.

All in all a step in the right direction for the class even if it makes them ~10% less supportable. Arguably especially if it makes them ~10% less supportable.

Major berserk is an incredibly mediocre buff in organized content. You already get this buff from sorcerers just existing. It's better than wrecking blow only on magblade simply because of sustain. But this is infinitely worse than using wrecking blow since now the buff is redundant. You realize that right? This kills 2h frontbar for stamblade because the buff is completely redundant. So if anything the magblade is only receiving a nerf in organized content like trials and dungeons, an area in which they were already lacking due to their relative lack in aoe and unique buffs for this group.

This is a step in the completely wrong direction to a class who wasn't by any means overperforming or over the edge. It just makes life as a nightblade harder and worse.

acastanza_ESO · July 2023

This never should have been an unnamed damage buff in the first place and Nightblade has been over performing in PVP by a significant margin ever since it was put on. This is a good nerf that is both absolutely necessary and it's about dang time. This was absolutely, unequivocally, a step in the right direction for Nightblade.

Now they need to give Sorcerer Major Breserk too instead of the half-[self snip]ed half-measure that they did before with Minor. Sorcerer's don't even have self-acess to that buff (which should be one of their signature buffs). It is ONLY from the Atro ult synergy. A synergy that someone else has to take and which isn't even guaranteed to give you the buff yourself when they do take it. To say that Sorcerers give it just by existing is dangerously misinformed.

katorga · July 2023

LOL. NB not only has more major/minor buffs than any other class, they are doubling up on them too.

TWO sources of Major Berserk.

Meanwhile Necromancer still does not have Major Brutality/Sorcery in its class kit. Sheesh.

React · July 2023

It's hardly a nerf on the PVP side of the game. Really only affects builds that ran serpent coil. I guess for the sweatier PVE comps it is probably a nerf.

Nebs · July 2023

I feel like the unnamed 10% buff was a bit over the top, but I'm disappointed they went with Major Berserk given NBs can get that already from their Mark Target (Reaper's Mark). I like Major Berserk being way easier to get, but it makes Reaper's Mark way less appealing of an option. I know Reaper's Mark isn't really necessary in organized Trial Groups, and not really even Dungeon groups, but with this option on Concealed Weapon I don't see where I'd take it, unless then it's a good pick with Surprise Attack, I suppose?

Finedaible · July 2023

(NB main here) Changing the unique damage bonus to Major Berserk is acceptable, though I really wish they would give Reaper's Mark something else to make it actually worth considering now. Reaper's Mark needs to do something different like apply minor brittle or something so that it is actually doing something during boss fights.

trippcap · July 2023

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

This never should have been an unnamed damage buff in the first place and Nightblade has been over performing in PVP by a significant margin ever since it was put on. This is a good nerf that is both absolutely necessary and it's about dang time. This was absolutely, unequivocally, a step in the right direction for Nightblade.

Now they need to give Sorcerer Major Breserk too instead of the half-[self snip]ed half-measure that they did before with Minor. Sorcerer's don't even have self-acess to that buff (which should be one of their signature buffs). It is ONLY from the Atro ult synergy. A synergy that someone else has to take and which isn't even guaranteed to give you the buff yourself when they do take it. To say that Sorcerers give it just by existing is dangerously misinformed.

So this proves that those who have some of the loudest voices are woefully misinformed. This is incorrect. You yourself receive the buff when someone takes it almost every time. The atro ult synergy is frequently up considering the low cost of it. Combine it with another sorc and you can get a great uptime.

Once again, please quit advocating for changes that completely kill off an item or skill for half of the game. "Yea this is great for pvp" is not really an argument when its horrendous for pve. So let's advocate for a happy medium instead of a singularly catered change that ignores half of the community.

acastanza_ESO · July 2023

Finedaible wrote: »

(NB main here) Changing the unique damage bonus to Major Berserk is acceptable, though I really wish they would give Reaper's Mark something else to make it actually worth considering now. Reaper's Mark needs to do something different like apply minor brittle or something so that it is actually doing something during boss fights.

I've been a pretty hard proponent of significant Nightblade nerfs (and I still think it does need some more). But in this case at least, I can agree with this. Shifting this to a relatively low-impact minor buff to eliminate redundancy would probably be good.

trippcap · July 2023

katorga wrote: »

LOL. NB not only has more major/minor buffs than any other class, they are doubling up on them too.

TWO sources of Major Berserk.

Meanwhile Necromancer still does not have Major Brutality/Sorcery in its class kit. Sheesh.

So you agree, they're giving the nightblade a redundant buff then. Should be changed to something different or unique. I agree. Buff necro

trippcap · July 2023

Nebs wrote: »

I feel like the unnamed 10% buff was a bit over the top, but I'm disappointed they went with Major Berserk given NBs can get that already from their Mark Target (Reaper's Mark). I like Major Berserk being way easier to get, but it makes Reaper's Mark way less appealing of an option. I know Reaper's Mark isn't really necessary in organized Trial Groups, and not really even Dungeon groups, but with this option on Concealed Weapon I don't see where I'd take it, unless then it's a good pick with Surprise Attack, I suppose?

I would like you to point out what "over the top" means. In group content in PvE nightblades are almost never seen. Their single target capacity is lower than that or sorcerers, and their damage in PvE content is significantly lower than almost every class. Nothing about it was over the top. This takes a struggling class and nukes it further.

In PvP it might be overperforming but when has it not. Either advocate for changes that benefit both pvp and pve or advocate for changes that will only take affect in pve or pvp. If you advocate for killing off the other half, its very bad for the game

Tommy_The_Gun · July 2023

Meanwhile, Consuming Darkness & Morphs is quietly crying in the corner...

WreckfulAbandon · July 2023

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Meanwhile, Consuming Darkness & Morphs is quietly crying in the corner...

Don't worry, those skills will be buffed long before sorc, necro, and templar get any positive attention from the balance team.

IncultaWolf · July 2023

katorga wrote: »

LOL. NB not only has more major/minor buffs than any other class, they are doubling up on them too.

TWO sources of Major Berserk.

Meanwhile Necromancer still does not have Major Brutality/Sorcery in its class kit. Sheesh.

I know right? Necromancer still begging for a basic buff every other class in the game has built into the toolkit

acastanza_ESO · July 2023

trippcap wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

This never should have been an unnamed damage buff in the first place and Nightblade has been over performing in PVP by a significant margin ever since it was put on. This is a good nerf that is both absolutely necessary and it's about dang time. This was absolutely, unequivocally, a step in the right direction for Nightblade.

Now they need to give Sorcerer Major Breserk too instead of the half-[self snip]ed half-measure that they did before with Minor. Sorcerer's don't even have self-acess to that buff (which should be one of their signature buffs). It is ONLY from the Atro ult synergy. A synergy that someone else has to take and which isn't even guaranteed to give you the buff yourself when they do take it. To say that Sorcerers give it just by existing is dangerously misinformed.

So this proves that those who have some of the loudest voices are woefully misinformed. This is incorrect. You yourself receive the buff when someone takes it almost every time. The atro ult synergy is frequently up considering the low cost of it. Combine it with another sorc and you can get a great uptime.

Once again, please quit advocating for changes that completely kill off an item or skill for half of the game. "Yea this is great for pvp" is not really an argument when its horrendous for pve. So let's advocate for a happy medium instead of a singularly catered change that ignores half of the community.

"Woefully misinformed" hahahahaha. I know how my buffs work. You frequently have to drop the Atro at significant range. Especially if you are not playing as a melee Sorc. And the buff range is a substantial factor. Sorcs not getting the buff from their own Atro, especially in PVP (if they even bother to run the Atro over a much better ult) is extremely common. Heck I've even not gotten the buff from my own Atro in 4 man PVE content because the range is simply not that large. The person who doesn't have any idea what they're talking about here is certainly not me.

Lykeion · July 2023

I agree that this is a nerf primarily to PVE NB, although dev's balancing goal is likely to be PVP NB. Stamblade needs a bit of love

trippcap · July 2023

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

trippcap wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

This never should have been an unnamed damage buff in the first place and Nightblade has been over performing in PVP by a significant margin ever since it was put on. This is a good nerf that is both absolutely necessary and it's about dang time. This was absolutely, unequivocally, a step in the right direction for Nightblade.

Now they need to give Sorcerer Major Breserk too instead of the half-[self snip]ed half-measure that they did before with Minor. Sorcerer's don't even have self-acess to that buff (which should be one of their signature buffs). It is ONLY from the Atro ult synergy. A synergy that someone else has to take and which isn't even guaranteed to give you the buff yourself when they do take it. To say that Sorcerers give it just by existing is dangerously misinformed.

So this proves that those who have some of the loudest voices are woefully misinformed. This is incorrect. You yourself receive the buff when someone takes it almost every time. The atro ult synergy is frequently up considering the low cost of it. Combine it with another sorc and you can get a great uptime.

Once again, please quit advocating for changes that completely kill off an item or skill for half of the game. "Yea this is great for pvp" is not really an argument when its horrendous for pve. So let's advocate for a happy medium instead of a singularly catered change that ignores half of the community.

"Woefully misinformed" hahahahaha. I know how my buffs work. You frequently have to drop the Atro at significant range. Especially if you are not playing as a melee Sorc. And the buff range is a substantial factor. Sorcs not getting the buff from their own Atro, especially in PVP (if they even bother to run the Atro over a much better ult) is extremely common. Heck I've even not gotten the buff from my own Atro in 4 man PVE content because the range is simply not that large. The person who doesn't have any idea what they're talking about here is certainly not me.

What youre describing seems like a skill issue. In organized group with decent players this is not a problem and people get great uptimes with those buffs. If the sorc knows what theyre doing its not difficult to buff the group.

acastanza_ESO · July 2023

trippcap wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

trippcap wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

This never should have been an unnamed damage buff in the first place and Nightblade has been over performing in PVP by a significant margin ever since it was put on. This is a good nerf that is both absolutely necessary and it's about dang time. This was absolutely, unequivocally, a step in the right direction for Nightblade.

Now they need to give Sorcerer Major Breserk too instead of the half-[self snip]ed half-measure that they did before with Minor. Sorcerer's don't even have self-acess to that buff (which should be one of their signature buffs). It is ONLY from the Atro ult synergy. A synergy that someone else has to take and which isn't even guaranteed to give you the buff yourself when they do take it. To say that Sorcerers give it just by existing is dangerously misinformed.

So this proves that those who have some of the loudest voices are woefully misinformed. This is incorrect. You yourself receive the buff when someone takes it almost every time. The atro ult synergy is frequently up considering the low cost of it. Combine it with another sorc and you can get a great uptime.

Once again, please quit advocating for changes that completely kill off an item or skill for half of the game. "Yea this is great for pvp" is not really an argument when its horrendous for pve. So let's advocate for a happy medium instead of a singularly catered change that ignores half of the community.

"Woefully misinformed" hahahahaha. I know how my buffs work. You frequently have to drop the Atro at significant range. Especially if you are not playing as a melee Sorc. And the buff range is a substantial factor. Sorcs not getting the buff from their own Atro, especially in PVP (if they even bother to run the Atro over a much better ult) is extremely common. Heck I've even not gotten the buff from my own Atro in 4 man PVE content because the range is simply not that large. The person who doesn't have any idea what they're talking about here is certainly not me.

What youre describing seems like a skill issue. In organized group with decent players this is not a problem and people get great uptimes with those buffs. If the sorc knows what theyre doing its not difficult to buff the group.

No it's a fundamental issue with an incompatibility between how the buff works and is distributed and the primary (ranged) playstyle of the class. There are definitely circumstances where it can and does work well but that is very much not every case and is certainly not at all the case in PVP which is what I care about the most. It also doesn't change the fact that a Sorc simply isn't guaranteed to get the buff themselves, and can't even guarantee it for themselves because they can't proc their own synergy. Dismissing a legitimate issue with skill design and buff access with "skill issue" is insulting and inappropriate.

But this is supposed to be a topic about Nughtblades and the justified nerf that they received, not Sorcs continuing to be bad.

birdik · July 2023

Stam nb still garbage
Mana nb worse with sorcs around
Need changes to mark target
Nerf dks

master_vanargand · July 2023

PvE Nightblade DPS is said to be over 10% weaker than top tier classes.
And Nightblade is 10% weaker as Major Berserk is gained from sorc's atro ult.
What can be said for sure is that Nightblade DPS has become the weakest class in PvE.

birdik · July 2023

master_vanargand wrote: »

PvE Nightblade DPS is said to be over 10% weaker than top tier classes.
And Nightblade is 10% weaker as Major Slayer is gained from sorc's atro ult (and trial dummy).
What can be said for sure is that Nightblade DPS has become the weakest class in PvE.

Major berserk

merpins · July 2023

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

(NB main here) Changing the unique damage bonus to Major Berserk is acceptable, though I really wish they would give Reaper's Mark something else to make it actually worth considering now. Reaper's Mark needs to do something different like apply minor brittle or something so that it is actually doing something during boss fights.

I've been a pretty hard proponent of significant Nightblade nerfs (and I still think it does need some more). But in this case at least, I can agree with this. Shifting this to a relatively low-impact minor buff to eliminate redundancy would probably be good.

Stam could use some nerfs for PVP. Mag could use some buffs for PVE.
Though I'm a proponent of buff all classes until every class is strong, and NB just isn't that strong in PVE, especially mag. In PVP sure, but this just brings back the stance of balancing pve and pvp separately.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · July 2023

No effect on me, my main doesn't even use that ability or any of it's morphs, I find the Vampire spammable much more efficient and better feeling to use.

AimerQ · July 2023

NightBlade dd in PVE has been bottom of all classes for patches. It get less buffed than other class from weapon skillline change, and the merciless resolve change is more kind of QoL improvement, but barely a decent boost to the dps. And now a loss of unique buff?
Yeah, yeah. It's strong in PVP, but not way too strong. Plus, you can just make this buff to be effective only against monsters rather than totally replace it with a named buff. Nightblade is my first character, and now can only be played as healer in trials.

ebix_ · July 2023

AimerQ wrote: »

NightBlade dd in PVE has been bottom of all classes for patches. It get less buffed than other class from weapon skillline change, and the merciless resolve change is more kind of QoL improvement, but barely a decent boost to the dps. And now a loss of unique buff?
Yeah, yeah. It's strong in PVP, but not way too strong. Plus, you can just make this buff to be effective only against monsters rather than totally replace it with a named buff. Nightblade is my first character, and now can only be played as healer in trials.

it was too strong in PVP tho and I'm saying this as a nb main, thx to Sea Serpent giving free major berserk. but tbh I was expecting a Sea serpent nerf.
Mag Blade in PVP now loses Major Courage and 10% damage if they used to use Sea Serpent but I think its a good nerf to bring down the ceiling potential.
in PVE however, you cant kill whats already dead so those stabz dont hurt much.

Mayrael · July 2023

I think this is a good change, just like we always wanted, slight balance changes not huge swings.

Syiccal · July 2023

Nebs wrote: »

I feel like the unnamed 10% buff was a bit over the top, but I'm disappointed they went with Major Berserk given NBs can get that already from their Mark Target (Reaper's Mark). I like Major Berserk being way easier to get, but it makes Reaper's Mark way less appealing of an option. I know Reaper's Mark isn't really necessary in organized Trial Groups, and not really even Dungeon groups, but with this option on Concealed Weapon I don't see where I'd take it, unless then it's a good pick with Surprise Attack, I suppose?

Ha forgot about this, so now nb has 2 ways to get major beserk yet here I am on my plar without even minor beserk, oh wait I get 5% on CLASS skills only.