So does Zenimax Studios have an explanation for this situation involving a Trans employee ?

AzuraFan · July 2023

Syldras wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

[snip]

There are many trans women who are attracted to women and trans men who are attracted to men, though?

I think the "they're really gay" assertion is true of many children who think they're trans, and of *some* adults. Studies support this for children. They've consistently shown that the majority of children who say they're trans grow up to be gay or lesbian if left alone.

I know, but what I am wondering about is not the "cause" of trans people existing, but the cause of dysphoria - or the explanation how someone's physical sex can feel wrong to that person. It must have some neurological explanation if perfectly sane people can get this "sentiment". The dysphoric trans people I know personally are no nutjobs, but intelligent, well-educated, down-to-earth and sane people, after all.

Maybe not. Some people do overcome their dysphoria through therapy, which suggests that dysphoria doesn't always have a biological cause. For those for which therapy fails, maybe there is a biological cause, maybe not. We can't say yet. None has been found, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

And just because something may be a mental health issue doesn't mean the person can't be intelligent and sane etc. For example, people who are clinically depressed aren't insane, or poorly educated, or "nutjobs". Let's leave that type of thinking where it belongs - in the garbage can.

AzuraFan wrote: »

(I suggest you look up Ray Blanchard

I know him and his theories don't convince me.

Fair enough.

[Edited for Quote]

Syldras · July 2023

AzuraFan wrote: »

I think the "they're really gay" assertion is true of many children who think they're trans, and of *some* adults. Studies support this for children. They've consistently shown that the majority of children who say they're trans grow up to be gay or lesbian if left alone.

What's the reason for that? Fear of homophobia? But why would they label themselves as trans instead, if trans people are even less accepted than gay people?

AzuraFan wrote: »

And just because something may be a mental health issue doesn't mean the person can't be intelligent and sane etc. For example, people who are clinically depressed aren't insane, or poorly educated, or "nutjobs". Let's leave that type of thinking where it belongs - in the garbage can.

It's a common transphobic prejudice that trans people were confused weirdos / insane and incapable of recognizing their "real" sex (what they mean are sexual organs or chromosomes) because of that. Just stating that this is not the case.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.

Get back to me when you’ve done your research.

But I also don't care.

That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.

Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.

Stop mentioning my posts.

Something about pot calling the kettle black.

@NotaDaedraWorshipper, because you, like a few vocal others are lacking the thumb strength to scroll, I will post it for now the fourth time…

Are you genuinely trying to troll, or just a passive one, either way, you’re a post away from an ignore.

Make it count.

Why should I when you don't do it in turn to others? You posted a snippet from wikipedia towards me that contributed nothing and Spartaxo made good posts about neutrality you skipped to instead throw barbs or put words in others mouth. Such as accusing TheJadeFalcon of hate. If anyone feels like a troll and bigot here, it's you. One that takes this thread very personally of some reason as well, going by how you have to reply to everyone almost instantly, except of course towards the people who liked your post and sprouted transphobia. Didn't correct those.

But compared to you, I'm going to leave this post, because many comments here and reactions to it are disheartening, which isn't a surprise since it's not uncommon see lgbtq+-phobia on the forum or in game, and because I also have other things to do.
Like wonder where the hell the mods are.

RaikaNA · July 2023

MachineGod wrote: »

Literally from their own TOS:
2.12 We do not allow the discussion of any legal matters involving ZeniMax Media Inc, its affiliates or any of their associated companies through ZeniMax Services and Sites.

Yet here we are.

Exactly... I remember several years ago during a presidential election people were talking about RL politics in Auridon in the PC NA server. I came to join in and voiced my concerns and kinda made a joke about one of the candidates... Someone didn't like it and reported me to ZOS.... I received an email saying that my account got a strike for talking about Politics...

This is what they said in their email "While we do not discourage players from having political opinions, Tamriel is not the place for them."

Did their terms of service change recently? Are we allowed to talk about politics both in-game and on the forums?

thejadefalcon · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.

Get back to me when you’ve done your research.

But I also don't care.

That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.

Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.

Stop mentioning my posts.

No. You don't get to say "this conversation is over" just because you're afraid of someone rebutting you. This is a public forum. If you want to stop interacting with me, that is on you. I wouldn't have been called back to this page if you didn't reply to my post.

You want to talk about agendas full of hate? Reply to the transphobe who called your post perfect and call them out on their bigotry. Then we'll talk about agendas full of hate.

My post is perfect.

No I don’t believe it’s a fantasy to believe you are uncomfortable in your skin and want to change that, neither is it my responsibility to hold someone who supported my post accountable for their beliefs.

They are their own person, and who am I to tell them they are wrong for believing in something I don’t?

If you read even a quarter of my posts, you would have understood that. You can believe whatever you want, about whatever you want, but when you come to my video game forum, pointing fingers at a company I have always known to be inclusive, I am going to give THEM the benefit of the doubt, as they have a track record of inclusion.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to stop interacting with me?

By your very definition, as a bigot, using the argument that ZOS terrorized Leona by continuing to do something after she said “stop” you have continued to offer extremely skewed interpretations of my posts after I said to stop.

So what is it?
Does stop mean stop?
Is that something we respect?

Bigotry at it’s finest.

If you want to leave a conversation on a public forum, you can either hit the block button or you can close the tab. You don't get to end a conversation by telling other people to leave you alone. That's not how forums work. If you want to stop a conversation, you have to actually stop.

The fact that you are equating this incredibly simple thing with someone who was repeatedly deadnamed, forcefully outed to others and forced from her source of income and livelihood tells us that you are not and never have been an ally to trans people.

There it is again, more forced narrative. I’m not telling you to stop talking about a topic. I’m telling you to stop trying to use my post as a “jump-off” for transphobic script when nothing I had said had anything to do with hate for people transitioning.

Maybe I should be the one reporting for hate speech, because you surely have it out for me. 😂

You told me to stop replying to you, while continuing to reply to me. A five year old could figure out the flaw with this plan of yours.

I didn’t tell myself to stop.

So you’re openly embracing the fact that you’re the bigot in this entire situation. Fantastic.

Stop means stop, take flight.

So you want to speak over other people then and they're just not allowed to have their own opinion when it contradicts yours? Hmm, I wonder what that reminds me of...

And no, just calling someone a bigot doesn't make them one. You have to demonstrate a bigoted attitude. But good try, let us know how that works out for you.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.

Get back to me when you’ve done your research.

But I also don't care.

That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.

Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.

Stop mentioning my posts.

No. You don't get to say "this conversation is over" just because you're afraid of someone rebutting you. This is a public forum. If you want to stop interacting with me, that is on you. I wouldn't have been called back to this page if you didn't reply to my post.

You want to talk about agendas full of hate? Reply to the transphobe who called your post perfect and call them out on their bigotry. Then we'll talk about agendas full of hate.

My post is perfect.

No I don’t believe it’s a fantasy to believe you are uncomfortable in your skin and want to change that, neither is it my responsibility to hold someone who supported my post accountable for their beliefs.

They are their own person, and who am I to tell them they are wrong for believing in something I don’t?

If you read even a quarter of my posts, you would have understood that. You can believe whatever you want, about whatever you want, but when you come to my video game forum, pointing fingers at a company I have always known to be inclusive, I am going to give THEM the benefit of the doubt, as they have a track record of inclusion.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to stop interacting with me?

By your very definition, as a bigot, using the argument that ZOS terrorized Leona by continuing to do something after she said “stop” you have continued to offer extremely skewed interpretations of my posts after I said to stop.

So what is it?
Does stop mean stop?
Is that something we respect?

Bigotry at it’s finest.

If you want to leave a conversation on a public forum, you can either hit the block button or you can close the tab. You don't get to end a conversation by telling other people to leave you alone. That's not how forums work. If you want to stop a conversation, you have to actually stop.

The fact that you are equating this incredibly simple thing with someone who was repeatedly deadnamed, forcefully outed to others and forced from her source of income and livelihood tells us that you are not and never have been an ally to trans people.

There it is again, more forced narrative. I’m not telling you to stop talking about a topic. I’m telling you to stop trying to use my post as a “jump-off” for transphobic script when nothing I had said had anything to do with hate for people transitioning.

Maybe I should be the one reporting for hate speech, because you surely have it out for me. 😂

You told me to stop replying to you, while continuing to reply to me. A five year old could figure out the flaw with this plan of yours.

I didn’t tell myself to stop.

So you’re openly embracing the fact that you’re the bigot in this entire situation. Fantastic.

Stop means stop, take flight.

So you want to speak over other people then and they're just not allowed to have their own opinion when it contradicts yours? Hmm, I wonder what that reminds me of...

And no, just calling someone a bigot doesn't make them one. You have to demonstrate a bigoted attitude. But good try, let us know how that works out for you.

At what point did I “speak over you,” feel free to have whatever opinion you want, but you’re not going to attack people.

On top of that, an outright refusal to practice what you preach. You twisted my posts yet again, didn’t I say to stop?

Take them at face value as they are intended, instead of perpetrating your life as a victim by turning everyone around you into a villain in this grand scheme of yours.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

RaikaNA wrote: »

MachineGod wrote: »

Literally from their own TOS:
2.12 We do not allow the discussion of any legal matters involving ZeniMax Media Inc, its affiliates or any of their associated companies through ZeniMax Services and Sites.

Yet here we are.

Exactly... I remember several years ago during a presidential election people were talking about RL politics in Auridon in the PC NA server. I came to join in and voiced my concerns and kinda made a joke about one of the candidates... Someone didn't like it and reported me to ZOS.... I received an email saying that my account got a strike for talking about Politics...

This is what they said in their email "While we do not discourage players from having political opinions, Tamriel is not the place for them."

Did their terms of service change recently? Are we allowed to talk about politics both in-game and on the forums?

Apparently ZOS feels it’s necessary to leave this up, I’ve done my fair share of reports to get this counter-productive thread torn down but it appears we’re just going to have to sit back and wait until every single forum rule is broken, I’ve already seen half of them, and more than enough to ban accounts over baiting, leading to more baiting.

When people start throwing the word “transphobe” around casually, it’s a pretty good closing point.

spartaxoxo · July 2023

Ingenon wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I can't help but feel that if companies hadn't decided it was acceptable for newly married/divorced women to have to wait several months+ to get their legal name changes through the system, they'd be a little better prepared for situations like this now where people very reasonably don't want to be called by a name that outs them as someone they aren't anymore.

Blaming the software seems like an opportunity for someone to write better software and for companies to get moving on better best practices.

And hey, newly married/divorced women, trans people, and anyone else who wants to change their legal name will benefit. Win-win!

^ This

I know someone who is an experienced IT Support. Their industry requires that only authenticated people are allowed to do specific tasks online. My acquaintance mentioned recently about how hard it was to change the login username with their company software. Literally request tickets for login name changes would pile up because other support folks would avoid working them, and my acquaintance would work for some time to get through all of them. Apparently, the login name change part was trivial, but getting the multiple group assignments per person correct required careful tedious work.

This part there is where the mistakes are generally made from what I have seen. They will be able to login and do at least some of their work, but they may not have access to everything they should. I sometimes have to share files with people who should have access to those files. I've never had an employee locked out completely for months using a username they were assigned.

Ingenon · July 2023

spartaxoxo wrote: »

My company does both (days on the badge, 3-4 weeks for computer) and it's less technically advanced than Zeni. In addition, Zeni DOES process name changes and attempted to do so for Leona but they botched it and then blamed her.

Glad to hear that your company does both. Hearing that ZOS attempted the computer name change and reportedly botched it sounds like what I heard from a middle manager I worked with. This middle manager wore an employee badge with a different last name then their computer login. The subject came up during an after work gathering, and this middle manager told me they didn't push IT support to change their computer login because they were concerned that they would end up not having access to everything they needed to do their job. When you have to use multiple legacy software systems that each have their own access control, the odds against getting a login name changed successfully for all of them can be higher than some folks want to deal with.

AzuraFan · July 2023

Syldras wrote: »

What's the reason for that? Fear of homophobia? But why would they label themselves as trans instead, if trans people are even less accepted than gay people?

It can be internalized homophobia or confusion around gender (feminine/masculine). Most children who grow up to be gay/lesbian are gender non-conforming. Some children can mistake gender non-conformity for being trans. By "children" I mean under 18.

Also, at school it can be more acceptable to say you're trans than to say you're gay. Trans is kind of the trendy thing right now in schools.

Finally, if you belong to an ultra religious family or another family that views homosexuality in a negative light, you might actually be more accepted by your family if you say you're trans, rather than if you say you're gay/lesbian.

I'm sure there are other reasons too. You can find the studies if you look.

It's a common transphobic prejudice that trans people were confused weirdos / insane and incapable of recognizing their "real" sex (what they mean are sexual organs or chromosomes) because of that. Just stating that this is not the case.

Okay, we agree on that.

MachineGod · July 2023

I think it is quite clear this is being left up on purpose and against their own ToS until, most likely, they can decide internally what to do as a company going forward.

Until then people can enjoy this rare moment of "freedom" (and look at this thread for what happens when that is the case). I strongly suspect you could get away with typing almost anything in this thread which is very evident from some previous replies and people.

Katheriah · July 2023

MachineGod wrote: »

Until then people can enjoy this rare moment of "freedom" (and look at this thread for what happens when that is the case). I strongly suspect you could get away with typing almost anything in this thread which is very evident from some previous replies and people.

In that case, I will use this moment to tell you I think you're really bad at the game.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

Katheriah wrote: »

MachineGod wrote: »

Until then people can enjoy this rare moment of "freedom" (and look at this thread for what happens when that is the case). I strongly suspect you could get away with typing almost anything in this thread which is very evident from some previous replies and people.

In that case, I will use this moment to tell you I think you're really bad at the game.

Oh yeah, you’re really REALLY bad at the game.
I got you @MachineGod. 😁

Gwahiir · July 2023

AzuraFan wrote: »

Most children who grow up to be gay/lesbian are gender non-conforming.

Sounds like bs to me, got evidence to back that up?

thejadefalcon · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.

Get back to me when you’ve done your research.

But I also don't care.

That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.

Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.

Stop mentioning my posts.

No. You don't get to say "this conversation is over" just because you're afraid of someone rebutting you. This is a public forum. If you want to stop interacting with me, that is on you. I wouldn't have been called back to this page if you didn't reply to my post.

You want to talk about agendas full of hate? Reply to the transphobe who called your post perfect and call them out on their bigotry. Then we'll talk about agendas full of hate.

My post is perfect.

No I don’t believe it’s a fantasy to believe you are uncomfortable in your skin and want to change that, neither is it my responsibility to hold someone who supported my post accountable for their beliefs.

They are their own person, and who am I to tell them they are wrong for believing in something I don’t?

If you read even a quarter of my posts, you would have understood that. You can believe whatever you want, about whatever you want, but when you come to my video game forum, pointing fingers at a company I have always known to be inclusive, I am going to give THEM the benefit of the doubt, as they have a track record of inclusion.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to stop interacting with me?

By your very definition, as a bigot, using the argument that ZOS terrorized Leona by continuing to do something after she said “stop” you have continued to offer extremely skewed interpretations of my posts after I said to stop.

So what is it?
Does stop mean stop?
Is that something we respect?

Bigotry at it’s finest.

If you want to leave a conversation on a public forum, you can either hit the block button or you can close the tab. You don't get to end a conversation by telling other people to leave you alone. That's not how forums work. If you want to stop a conversation, you have to actually stop.

The fact that you are equating this incredibly simple thing with someone who was repeatedly deadnamed, forcefully outed to others and forced from her source of income and livelihood tells us that you are not and never have been an ally to trans people.

There it is again, more forced narrative. I’m not telling you to stop talking about a topic. I’m telling you to stop trying to use my post as a “jump-off” for transphobic script when nothing I had said had anything to do with hate for people transitioning.

Maybe I should be the one reporting for hate speech, because you surely have it out for me. 😂

You told me to stop replying to you, while continuing to reply to me. A five year old could figure out the flaw with this plan of yours.

I didn’t tell myself to stop.

So you’re openly embracing the fact that you’re the bigot in this entire situation. Fantastic.

Stop means stop, take flight.

So you want to speak over other people then and they're just not allowed to have their own opinion when it contradicts yours? Hmm, I wonder what that reminds me of...

And no, just calling someone a bigot doesn't make them one. You have to demonstrate a bigoted attitude. But good try, let us know how that works out for you.

At what point did I “speak over you,” feel free to have whatever opinion you want, but you’re not going to attack people.

On top of that, an outright refusal to practice what you preach. You twisted my posts yet again, didn’t I say to stop?

Take them at face value as they are intended, instead of perpetrating your life as a victim by turning everyone around you into a villain in this grand scheme of yours.

Take this at face value then or, more likely, twist them and then repeatedly accuse everyone else of it. You project like an Imax, by the way. But this next paragraph will sum up a core part of my world view and complete my dastardly agenda of "give a *** about other people."

Transphobes, like all bigots, can go rot. The world would be much better off without them. All of them. Forever.

I'm sure you'll find something wrong with that view, that I'm oppressing someone somehow with my maniacal schemes of equality and not thinking someone's existence is political.

Stncold · July 2023

Buff necros, templars, and magsorcs. Nerf DK's.

RaikaNA · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

MachineGod wrote: »

Literally from their own TOS:
2.12 We do not allow the discussion of any legal matters involving ZeniMax Media Inc, its affiliates or any of their associated companies through ZeniMax Services and Sites.

Yet here we are.

Exactly... I remember several years ago during a presidential election people were talking about RL politics in Auridon in the PC NA server. I came to join in and voiced my concerns and kinda made a joke about one of the candidates... Someone didn't like it and reported me to ZOS.... I received an email saying that my account got a strike for talking about Politics...

This is what they said in their email "While we do not discourage players from having political opinions, Tamriel is not the place for them."

Did their terms of service change recently? Are we allowed to talk about politics both in-game and on the forums?

Apparently ZOS feels it’s necessary to leave this up, I’ve done my fair share of reports to get this counter-productive thread torn down but it appears we’re just going to have to sit back and wait until every single forum rule is broken, I’ve already seen half of them, and more than enough to ban accounts over baiting, leading to more baiting.

When people start throwing the word “transphobe” around casually, it’s a pretty good closing point.

Yeah, I reported this thread as well.. theirs crap tons of baiting going on and nothing seems to be happening. I was just wondering if the terms of service changed recently that resulted in this thread still being active?... Am I allowed to bring my religious beliefs (I'm a Christian) into this highly controversial discussion without fearing that my account will get banned for hate speech, Flaming, and baiting because it may not fit the narrative?

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

Craziest comment of the forum goes to…

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.

Get back to me when you’ve done your research.

But I also don't care.

That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.

Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.

Stop mentioning my posts.

No. You don't get to say "this conversation is over" just because you're afraid of someone rebutting you. This is a public forum. If you want to stop interacting with me, that is on you. I wouldn't have been called back to this page if you didn't reply to my post.

You want to talk about agendas full of hate? Reply to the transphobe who called your post perfect and call them out on their bigotry. Then we'll talk about agendas full of hate.

My post is perfect.

No I don’t believe it’s a fantasy to believe you are uncomfortable in your skin and want to change that, neither is it my responsibility to hold someone who supported my post accountable for their beliefs.

They are their own person, and who am I to tell them they are wrong for believing in something I don’t?

If you read even a quarter of my posts, you would have understood that. You can believe whatever you want, about whatever you want, but when you come to my video game forum, pointing fingers at a company I have always known to be inclusive, I am going to give THEM the benefit of the doubt, as they have a track record of inclusion.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to stop interacting with me?

By your very definition, as a bigot, using the argument that ZOS terrorized Leona by continuing to do something after she said “stop” you have continued to offer extremely skewed interpretations of my posts after I said to stop.

So what is it?
Does stop mean stop?
Is that something we respect?

Bigotry at it’s finest.

If you want to leave a conversation on a public forum, you can either hit the block button or you can close the tab. You don't get to end a conversation by telling other people to leave you alone. That's not how forums work. If you want to stop a conversation, you have to actually stop.

The fact that you are equating this incredibly simple thing with someone who was repeatedly deadnamed, forcefully outed to others and forced from her source of income and livelihood tells us that you are not and never have been an ally to trans people.

There it is again, more forced narrative. I’m not telling you to stop talking about a topic. I’m telling you to stop trying to use my post as a “jump-off” for transphobic script when nothing I had said had anything to do with hate for people transitioning.

Maybe I should be the one reporting for hate speech, because you surely have it out for me. 😂

You told me to stop replying to you, while continuing to reply to me. A five year old could figure out the flaw with this plan of yours.

I didn’t tell myself to stop.

So you’re openly embracing the fact that you’re the bigot in this entire situation. Fantastic.

Stop means stop, take flight.

So you want to speak over other people then and they're just not allowed to have their own opinion when it contradicts yours? Hmm, I wonder what that reminds me of...

And no, just calling someone a bigot doesn't make them one. You have to demonstrate a bigoted attitude. But good try, let us know how that works out for you.

At what point did I “speak over you,” feel free to have whatever opinion you want, but you’re not going to attack people.

On top of that, an outright refusal to practice what you preach. You twisted my posts yet again, didn’t I say to stop?

Take them at face value as they are intended, instead of perpetrating your life as a victim by turning everyone around you into a villain in this grand scheme of yours.

Take this at face value then or, more likely, twist them and then repeatedly accuse everyone else of it. You project like an Imax, by the way. But this next paragraph will sum up a core part of my world view and complete my dastardly agenda of "give a *** about other people."

Transphobes, like all bigots, can go rot. The world would be much better off without them. All of them. Forever.

I'm sure you'll find something wrong with that view, that I'm oppressing someone somehow with my maniacal schemes of equality and not thinking someone's existence is political.

You pick and choose who the transphobes and bigots are and then proceed to say they all need to disappear. Yeah, I’m sure you’re definitely not on any government watch lists. 😂

An existence isn’t political, when you compound your worker’s rights by stating you have additional ones, it becomes that way.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

RaikaNA wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

MachineGod wrote: »

Literally from their own TOS:
2.12 We do not allow the discussion of any legal matters involving ZeniMax Media Inc, its affiliates or any of their associated companies through ZeniMax Services and Sites.

Yet here we are.

Exactly... I remember several years ago during a presidential election people were talking about RL politics in Auridon in the PC NA server. I came to join in and voiced my concerns and kinda made a joke about one of the candidates... Someone didn't like it and reported me to ZOS.... I received an email saying that my account got a strike for talking about Politics...

This is what they said in their email "While we do not discourage players from having political opinions, Tamriel is not the place for them."

Did their terms of service change recently? Are we allowed to talk about politics both in-game and on the forums?

Apparently ZOS feels it’s necessary to leave this up, I’ve done my fair share of reports to get this counter-productive thread torn down but it appears we’re just going to have to sit back and wait until every single forum rule is broken, I’ve already seen half of them, and more than enough to ban accounts over baiting, leading to more baiting.

When people start throwing the word “transphobe” around casually, it’s a pretty good closing point.

Yeah, I reported this thread as well.. theirs crap tons of baiting going on and nothing seems to be happening. I was just wondering if the terms of service changed recently that resulted in this thread still being active?... Am I allowed to bring my religious beliefs (I'm a Christian) into this highly controversial discussion without fearing that my account will get banned for hate speech, Flaming, and baiting because it may not fit the narrative?

I’m sure you’ve got a valuable perspective that can be learned from, but there’s no learning going on in this thread, just wild accusations and attacks.

Feel free to share if you want though, I doubt they would ban you for it as long as it’s relevant to the topic.

VaranisArano · July 2023

The more I read posters explaining their struggles with changing their names, the more I'm befuddled that this is still such a pervasive issue long after women entered the workforce in large numbers.

Like, rhetorical question for the sake of humor here, was this software written for men, by men, in a magical world where nobody changes their legal name?

Like, this is not an unreasonable or uncommon request.

It really goes to show that while most everyone who wants to change their legal name has to go through a similar hassle, the current systems are frequently inefficient and or even incapable of handling such a normal request in a timely manner.

Can't we expect better?

TaSheen · July 2023

RaikaNA wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

MachineGod wrote: »

Literally from their own TOS:
2.12 We do not allow the discussion of any legal matters involving ZeniMax Media Inc, its affiliates or any of their associated companies through ZeniMax Services and Sites.

Yet here we are.

Exactly... I remember several years ago during a presidential election people were talking about RL politics in Auridon in the PC NA server. I came to join in and voiced my concerns and kinda made a joke about one of the candidates... Someone didn't like it and reported me to ZOS.... I received an email saying that my account got a strike for talking about Politics...

This is what they said in their email "While we do not discourage players from having political opinions, Tamriel is not the place for them."

Did their terms of service change recently? Are we allowed to talk about politics both in-game and on the forums?

Apparently ZOS feels it’s necessary to leave this up, I’ve done my fair share of reports to get this counter-productive thread torn down but it appears we’re just going to have to sit back and wait until every single forum rule is broken, I’ve already seen half of them, and more than enough to ban accounts over baiting, leading to more baiting.

When people start throwing the word “transphobe” around casually, it’s a pretty good closing point.

Yeah, I reported this thread as well.. theirs crap tons of baiting going on and nothing seems to be happening. I was just wondering if the terms of service changed recently that resulted in this thread still being active?... Am I allowed to bring my religious beliefs (I'm a Christian) into this highly controversial discussion without fearing that my account will get banned for hate speech, Flaming, and baiting because it may not fit the narrative?

I would suggest you do as I have done: don't post anything much at all in this thread. Once something does happen to it, it's going to take a very long time for the participants to return to normal "forum relations".

Carcamongus · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

freezinggrey wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Tyrobius wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Why do I have people messaging me that there are characters in this thread trying to push this weird narrative that anyone unwilling to crusade against a company they’ve always known to be inclusive over a one-sided and incomplete story makes them “transphobic” or filled with hatred?

None of any of my posts, or the vast majority of people posting here in opposition to being blindly lead, have had anything to do with the person going through a transition, and everything to with the very real possibility that there is a dishonest narrative being pushed, and it’s important to look at the situation from both angles.

From the sound of these interviews, Faren had full access to their account but refused to access it due to it bearing a resemblance to their “dead name” and willfully fell behind schedule.

Be honest with yourselves here.
There’s more to this story.

Blindly lead (sic)... ""dead name""... be honest with yourself, you just can't help yourself can you?

Is it not blind? Where’s the direction? What’s the focus? Who are we looking at to pay for this alleged discrimination?

Regarding “dead name,” that’s not a term used around here, it’s “old name” or simply described as a name you no longer use.

Intentionally dead naming and misgendering someone is explicitly an anti-trans slur and is hate speech. This is very basic stuff.

Who said it was intentional?
Very basic assumptions.

Stop beating a dead horse while you’re at it, you don’t know the whole story, and won’t, until it’s ran due process.

You’re taught as early as middle school law, that people are innocent until proven guilty. This isn’t Salem and you’re not the townsfolk.

Continuously deadnaming someone, whether its intentional or not, is a form of harassment which is illegal in Maryland. Not only that, but retaliating against someone for filing a complaint is also illegal under that same law.

Though, I can't see how repeated deadnaming wouldn't be intentional. To take a page from your book; you're taught as early as elementary school that when someone tells you to stop, you're supposed to stop.

How do you even know they were being “dead named,” word of mouth?

You read pages on the internet.

Until it’s processed as conclusive evidence, it’s hearsay.

You literally hear the manager tell her to just go by her deadname at one point in the recordings. The evidence is all there. Perhaps actually listen to it.

Suggesting you go by your “dead name” is different than harassing someone by calling them it after they said they didn’t want you to do that.

Carcamongus wrote: »

Even worse, there have been posts that… claimed trans folks want special treatment...

Amusing. You’re inserting “trans” where it doesn’t belong to create a narrative about victimization.

How often does it sound like Zenimax makes exceptions to its account policy? From all of the “evidence” if you can even call it that, you can clearly see it’s a hassle, period. Not because they were adjusting it for someone transitioning, that’s more of the same weird narrative. If the process was done regularly, it wouldn’t have been such a nightmare. Regardless of whether Leona is trans, or not, they were inconveniencing their employer.

That’s the bottom line.

You can turn it into whatever you want about how “oh it was because of the transition, or this, or that” but it doesn’t detract from the reality that it is overwhelmingly likely their transition had nothing to do with it, and you gaslighters are trying to fuel a situation you know not even half of, with motive.

Good job quoting a piece of my post and completely taking it out of context. I wasn't referring to Leona, but to another post that indeed accused trans people of wanting special treatment. The term "trans" belongs because that's what the post referred to. The only narrative about victimization is in your imagination. I did point out not taking her claims at face value and the rest of my post wasn't even about her case, but the awful things people said in this discussion.

Cazador · July 2023

TaSheen wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

MachineGod wrote: »

Literally from their own TOS:
2.12 We do not allow the discussion of any legal matters involving ZeniMax Media Inc, its affiliates or any of their associated companies through ZeniMax Services and Sites.

Yet here we are.

Exactly... I remember several years ago during a presidential election people were talking about RL politics in Auridon in the PC NA server. I came to join in and voiced my concerns and kinda made a joke about one of the candidates... Someone didn't like it and reported me to ZOS.... I received an email saying that my account got a strike for talking about Politics...

This is what they said in their email "While we do not discourage players from having political opinions, Tamriel is not the place for them."

Did their terms of service change recently? Are we allowed to talk about politics both in-game and on the forums?

Apparently ZOS feels it’s necessary to leave this up, I’ve done my fair share of reports to get this counter-productive thread torn down but it appears we’re just going to have to sit back and wait until every single forum rule is broken, I’ve already seen half of them, and more than enough to ban accounts over baiting, leading to more baiting.

When people start throwing the word “transphobe” around casually, it’s a pretty good closing point.

Yeah, I reported this thread as well.. theirs crap tons of baiting going on and nothing seems to be happening. I was just wondering if the terms of service changed recently that resulted in this thread still being active?... Am I allowed to bring my religious beliefs (I'm a Christian) into this highly controversial discussion without fearing that my account will get banned for hate speech, Flaming, and baiting because it may not fit the narrative?

I would suggest you do as I have done: don't post anything much at all in this thread. Once something does happen to it, it's going to take a very long time for the participants to return to normal "forum relations".

Yeah, there's basically zero constructive conversation going on and unfortunately with such a contentious issue it was probably always going to go this way.

TaSheen · July 2023

Cazador wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

MachineGod wrote: »

Literally from their own TOS:
2.12 We do not allow the discussion of any legal matters involving ZeniMax Media Inc, its affiliates or any of their associated companies through ZeniMax Services and Sites.

Yet here we are.

Exactly... I remember several years ago during a presidential election people were talking about RL politics in Auridon in the PC NA server. I came to join in and voiced my concerns and kinda made a joke about one of the candidates... Someone didn't like it and reported me to ZOS.... I received an email saying that my account got a strike for talking about Politics...

This is what they said in their email "While we do not discourage players from having political opinions, Tamriel is not the place for them."

Did their terms of service change recently? Are we allowed to talk about politics both in-game and on the forums?

Apparently ZOS feels it’s necessary to leave this up, I’ve done my fair share of reports to get this counter-productive thread torn down but it appears we’re just going to have to sit back and wait until every single forum rule is broken, I’ve already seen half of them, and more than enough to ban accounts over baiting, leading to more baiting.

When people start throwing the word “transphobe” around casually, it’s a pretty good closing point.

Yeah, I reported this thread as well.. theirs crap tons of baiting going on and nothing seems to be happening. I was just wondering if the terms of service changed recently that resulted in this thread still being active?... Am I allowed to bring my religious beliefs (I'm a Christian) into this highly controversial discussion without fearing that my account will get banned for hate speech, Flaming, and baiting because it may not fit the narrative?

I would suggest you do as I have done: don't post anything much at all in this thread. Once something does happen to it, it's going to take a very long time for the participants to return to normal "forum relations".

Yeah, there's basically zero constructive conversation going on and unfortunately with such a contentious issue it was probably always going to go this way.

All too true. And with that - I'm out. Unless someone else wants to know about problems in Sweden regarding medical procedures.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

Carcamongus wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

freezinggrey wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Tyrobius wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Why do I have people messaging me that there are characters in this thread trying to push this weird narrative that anyone unwilling to crusade against a company they’ve always known to be inclusive over a one-sided and incomplete story makes them “transphobic” or filled with hatred?

None of any of my posts, or the vast majority of people posting here in opposition to being blindly lead, have had anything to do with the person going through a transition, and everything to with the very real possibility that there is a dishonest narrative being pushed, and it’s important to look at the situation from both angles.

From the sound of these interviews, Faren had full access to their account but refused to access it due to it bearing a resemblance to their “dead name” and willfully fell behind schedule.

Be honest with yourselves here.
There’s more to this story.

Blindly lead (sic)... ""dead name""... be honest with yourself, you just can't help yourself can you?

Is it not blind? Where’s the direction? What’s the focus? Who are we looking at to pay for this alleged discrimination?

Regarding “dead name,” that’s not a term used around here, it’s “old name” or simply described as a name you no longer use.

Intentionally dead naming and misgendering someone is explicitly an anti-trans slur and is hate speech. This is very basic stuff.

Who said it was intentional?
Very basic assumptions.

Stop beating a dead horse while you’re at it, you don’t know the whole story, and won’t, until it’s ran due process.

You’re taught as early as middle school law, that people are innocent until proven guilty. This isn’t Salem and you’re not the townsfolk.

Continuously deadnaming someone, whether its intentional or not, is a form of harassment which is illegal in Maryland. Not only that, but retaliating against someone for filing a complaint is also illegal under that same law.

Though, I can't see how repeated deadnaming wouldn't be intentional. To take a page from your book; you're taught as early as elementary school that when someone tells you to stop, you're supposed to stop.

How do you even know they were being “dead named,” word of mouth?

You read pages on the internet.

Until it’s processed as conclusive evidence, it’s hearsay.

You literally hear the manager tell her to just go by her deadname at one point in the recordings. The evidence is all there. Perhaps actually listen to it.

Suggesting you go by your “dead name” is different than harassing someone by calling them it after they said they didn’t want you to do that.

Carcamongus wrote: »

Even worse, there have been posts that… claimed trans folks want special treatment...

Amusing. You’re inserting “trans” where it doesn’t belong to create a narrative about victimization.

How often does it sound like Zenimax makes exceptions to its account policy? From all of the “evidence” if you can even call it that, you can clearly see it’s a hassle, period. Not because they were adjusting it for someone transitioning, that’s more of the same weird narrative. If the process was done regularly, it wouldn’t have been such a nightmare. Regardless of whether Leona is trans, or not, they were inconveniencing their employer.

That’s the bottom line.

You can turn it into whatever you want about how “oh it was because of the transition, or this, or that” but it doesn’t detract from the reality that it is overwhelmingly likely their transition had nothing to do with it, and you gaslighters are trying to fuel a situation you know not even half of, with motive.

Good job quoting a piece of my post and completely taking it out of context. I wasn't referring to Leona, but to another post that indeed accused trans people of wanting special treatment. The term "trans" belongs because that's what the post referred to. The only narrative about victimization is in your imagination. I did point out not taking her claims at face value and the rest of my post wasn't even about her case, but the awful things people said in this discussion.

You accused me of awful things, for having an opinion on her article, which is that it puts too much emphasis on uniqueness, and less on her rights as a United States citizen to a safe working environment, it comes off as an emotional hit piece.

Who gives their drama to a journalist, other than to create a bigger drama, or to drum out sympathy?

spartaxoxo · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Who gives their drama to a journalist, other than to create a bigger drama, or to drum out sympathy?

Going to the news has been such an important part of holding powerful people accountable that it has been called the 4th estate, is a huge measure for freedom of a population used by the UN, and is enshrined in the first amendment of the United States.

It's very, very often that someone was only able to hold a powerful person accountable after it makes news.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

VaranisArano wrote: »

The more I read posters explaining their struggles with changing their names, the more I'm befuddled that this is still such a pervasive issue long after women entered the workforce in large numbers.

Like, rhetorical question for the sake of humor here, was this software written for men, by men, in a magical world where nobody changes their legal name?

Like, this is not an unreasonable or uncommon request.

It really goes to show that while most everyone who wants to change their legal name has to go through a similar hassle, the current systems are frequently inefficient and or even incapable of handling such a normal request in a timely manner.

Can't we expect better?

There are so many businesses running on archaic software, that it’s enough to make you wonder how anything in this world makes any progress.

Hate to go back to it, but 2012 servers? In 2023?

Where is our funding going to?

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Who gives their drama to a journalist, other than to create a bigger drama, or to drum out sympathy?

Going to the news has been such an important part of holding powerful people accountable that it has been called the 4th estate, is a huge measure for freedom of a population used by the UN, and is enshrined in the first amendment of the United States.

It's very, very often that someone was only able to hold a powerful person accountable after it makes news.

How is Zenimax considered “powerful people?”

They hold zero political sway whatsoever, it would be the same as taking any business to court over wrongdoing.

There are countless suits processed against much larger and more politically aligned companies every day that are successful without a trip to the 4th estate.

spartaxoxo · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Who gives their drama to a journalist, other than to create a bigger drama, or to drum out sympathy?

Going to the news has been such an important part of holding powerful people accountable that it has been called the 4th estate, is a huge measure for freedom of a population used by the UN, and is enshrined in the first amendment of the United States.

It's very, very often that someone was only able to hold a powerful person accountable after it makes news.

How is Zenimax considered “powerful people?”

They hold zero political sway whatsoever, it would be the same as taking any business to court over wrongdoing.

There are countless suits processed against much larger and more politically aligned companies every day that are successful without a trip to the 4th estate.

Are you really trying to claim a billion dollar corporation isn't powerful?

RaikaNA · July 2023

MachineGod wrote: »

I think it is quite clear this is being left up on purpose and against their own ToS until, most likely, they can decide internally what to do as a company going forward.

Until then people can enjoy this rare moment of "freedom" (and look at this thread for what happens when that is the case). I strongly suspect you could get away with typing almost anything in this thread which is very evident from some previous replies and people.

So is this the part where I link the Team America: World Police America song to get a taste of freedom?