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So does Zenimax Studios have an explanation for this situation involving a Trans employee ?
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spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Minorities have a right to report possible discrimination against themselves. And when they do, a careful and unbiased review of all evidence should be done. Presuming they are "woke" and making it all up without a careful review of all facts (impossible to have done in this case) and reviewing their evidence with the bias that they are probably lying does a disservice to minority groups.
I will agree that some people out there go too far and do try to use minority status as an excuse to be jerks. That doesn't erase that hate crimes and discrimination legitimately exist. I was the victim of a hate crime that I never reported because the area we were in was very racist and we were just passing through anyway. It seemed like we'd never get a fair shake and even if we did we would not have felt safe in that area trying to pursue things. So, we just left.
All reports should be taken seriously. And minorities do not deserve negative labels for merely reporting what happened to them with evidence. Perhaps Leona is wrong and ZOS didn't discriminate against her. We don't know that until we've seen all the evidence. But calling her entitled, woke, selfish, and every other bashing name before that evidence has even been reviewed is not right. It has a chilling effect on those who want to speak out against legitimate discrimination and hate crimes.
There is a massive difference between someone using their minority status as excuse to be a jerk and someone reporting a case that may be a legitimate instance of workplace discrimination and other forms of hate. Leona has receipts for her claims. She has legitimately troubling interactions with her boss. She deserves a careful review of the evidence and not people injecting politics into an individual's actual life.15 -
thejadefalcon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »If Faren’s rights were confirmed to be violated, you would be hard pressed to find someone who didn’t support her.
How about you assume that they're telling the truth, then? That would be a good start to their defence. Of course, yes, they might be lying. But out of "trans person in America" vs "multibillion dollar corporation", who really needs your impassioned defence more?
And when this manager who's super irritated can't be bothered with not outing their employee and makes it all about how big of an inconvenience it is for them, instead of doing what a manager should do and support their employee... yeah, do I actually need to finish that sentence?13 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »we’re all entitled to peace of mind, but not at the expense of others
How does the woman this thread is about bother you personally?
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake13 -
tyrobia✭✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »I notice how quickly you were to post this dismissal to me, but you never bothered to call them out on it if you truly felt that sort of statement was beyond the pale. Curious, that.
Don't talk about how "gross" other people's views are if you're unwilling to make a stand against even the most blatant bigots.
There it is with that narrative again.
Weird, It’s almost as if you have an agenda.Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Why do I have people messaging me that there are characters in this thread trying to push this weird narrative that anyone unwilling to crusade against a company they’ve always known to be inclusive over a one-sided and incomplete story makes them “transphobic” or filled with hatred?
None of any of my posts, or the vast majority of people posting here in opposition to being blindly lead, have had anything to do with the person going through a transition, and everything to with the very real possibility that there is a dishonest narrative being pushed, and it’s important to look at the situation from both angles.
From the sound of these interviews, Faren had full access to their account but refused to access it due to it bearing a resemblance to their “dead name” and willfully fell behind schedule.
Be honest with yourselves here.
There’s more to this story.Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Finally, let’s make this very clear.
If it’s determined in court that ZOS are held liable for neglect or malpractice in the workplace, you can expect the same level of defense for Faren not just from me, but from everyone.
Until then, let’s end the speculation and get back to the important things like buffing Templar.
Oh, I'm happy to admit I have an agenda. My narrative is "respect trans people, it's not that damn difficult." It's something a lot of people are failing though, both here and in the rest of the world. Apparently referring to someone by their actual name is too much effort.
Telling someone to use their dead name is offensive. I'd explain why, but since you've clearly made up your mind and, very tellingly, put it in quotation marks, I think it's very obvious that it would fall on deaf ears.
You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.
Get back to me when you’ve done your research.
You can deny that dead names are slurs all you want but it won't change anything. Do you deny the existence of other slurs as well?2 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »we’re all entitled to peace of mind, but not at the expense of others
How does the woman this thread is about bother you personally?
It’s not mine, it’s the companies, and the manager to be precise, they made an honest mistake, one that anyone with the slightest bit of perception could deduce for themselves, or could replicate.
They have yet to have any defense to these claims, so it’s fair to provide the possibility of one.
Why is it fair to automatically assume this manager targeted Leona?Edited by Tyrant_Tim on July 19, 2023 8:05PM7 -
Stanx✭✭✭✭✭
✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Man, I'm only on page three of this thread and I've already hit the apparent spam filter on reports about six times. Have to go out now, so will be back later, but it's been a pleasure reading about how trans people are "woke identity politics". Lovely crowd from the ESO playerbase, as always. Bet they're the same people who claim that the playerbase never says anything homophobic and all the abuse towards LGBT+ guilds are for totally unrelated reasons entirely.
When you use your identity and assumed uniqueness as a shield, yes, it’s called “woke identity politics” you are literally politicking around your identity.
It has nothing to do with hate speech, or ignoring real world issues, and everything to do with entitlement. Because Leona identifies as trans, she felt obligated to different standards, and when she didn’t receive those, it was because she was being discriminated for being trans.
Until we know for certain any discrimination took place specifically because her gender, it’s about worker’s rights.
Feel free to keep reporting opinions that don’t align with yours, while slinging gross allegations.
It’s a great look.
Oh please, this thread is full of people more or less showing their not so veiled opinion of the LGBTQ+. She doesn't want special treatment, she wants to be treated like anyone else, which can include things like having her name changed, which is not rare for companies to do.
As soon as people use "woke" unironically it gets hard take them seriously. It's the same as people using SJWs some years back.
Woke.
“…an adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) meaning "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination". Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism.“
Take whatever you want serious as your opinion is inconsequential, you’re not going to deny the relevance this poses to the thread.
"When this term became popularized, initially the meaning of this term was when an individual become more aware of the social injustice. Or basically, any current affairs related like biased, discrimination, or double-standards.
However, as time passed by, people started using this term recklessly, assigning this term to themselves or someone they know to boost their confidence and reassure them that they have the moral high grounds and are fighting for the better world. And sometimes even using it as a way to protect themselves from other people's opinion, by considering the 'outsider' as non-woke. While people that are in line with their belief as woke. Meaning that those 'outsiders' have been brainwash by the society and couldn't see the truth. Thus, filtering everything that the 'outsider' gives regardless whether it is rationale or not.
And as of now, the original meaning is slowly fading and instead, is used more often to term someone as hypocritical and think they are the 'enlightened' despite the fact that they are extremely close-minded and are unable to accept other people's criticism or different perspective. Especially considering the existence of echo chamber(media) that helped them to find other like-minded individuals, thus, further solidifying their 'progressive' opinion."
Mhmm yes, relative to the thread.
Urban dictionary is not a reliable source for information, it is user generated and it feels a bit stilted using it to try and refute a quote from a journal.
Everyone has blinkers on and only sees what they want to see, endorses what aligns with their values and this whole thread is becoming a farce.
Except in this case it is as reliable as a dictionary definition, because the word is rarely ever used as it's official definition, and the Urban dictionary is written by people of the internet and social media, who are the ones using it. The word has lost its official definition, and is now often used by so called enlightened people to toot their own horn, who are in truth just close-minded and bigoted.
Woke was about informing of prejudice and discrimination, but has now been taken up by the people it was against to endorse their indoctrination instead.
It shouldn't be difficult to people not to be a**holes.
My point is that anyone can log in and write a definition on that website. I don't think it is productive to use a source that not even the users of the website agree on - a quarter of the votes are thumbs down and there's less than 2000 responses. That's hardly a significant enough pool to demonstrate anything with accuracy. Anyone can write a definition on that website and it doesn't inherently represent anything to do with the real world.2 -
Ingenon✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »On top of that, my own professional experiences have name changes processed in weeks, not months.
My professional experiences is that the employee badge change gets processed in weeks, once the appropriate proof of name change was submitted. In other words, you cannot just walk in and say my name is now this. You need to show something like a passport/social security card/drivers license to prove your new name, and only then would they start working on getting you a new employee badge. However, computer enterprise login name changes sometimes never happened. As others have said on this thread, I also know women whose login was based on their last name when they were hired, even though they had married or divorced since then, and their last name was now different. Their employee badge had their current legal last name, but their login did not.
12 -
thejadefalcon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.
Get back to me when you’ve done your research.
Just found your comment. I hadn't gotten that far until now, but was just replying to people quoting me. But I also don't care. You've made zero effort to even read the reddit post that helpfully breaks things down (since you're constantly asking for evidence. It may still be one-sided, but it's still evidence of what has been claimed). Maybe then you'd also have seen that the reason people are using the word "dead name" is because that's what Leona used. I don't care if you call it their "old name" or what. Deadname is common parlance on this topic. Maybe you should do some research of your own and understand why people feel so strongly about others putting anything about trans rights in quotation marks.11 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.
Get back to me when you’ve done your research.
But I also don't care.
That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.
Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.
Stop mentioning my posts.Edited by Tyrant_Tim on July 19, 2023 8:16PM20 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Everyone has blinkers on and only sees what they want to seeWell, they certainly didn't see the exit.... or else they did, and simply decided not to get off.The exit here is to stop caring about trans rights and that's not gonna happen, no matter how uncomfy it makes you feel.
What does that have to do with leaving your blinkers on, lol
And thanks for lumping me in with the transphobics, I guess.3 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Man, I'm only on page three of this thread and I've already hit the apparent spam filter on reports about six times. Have to go out now, so will be back later, but it's been a pleasure reading about how trans people are "woke identity politics". Lovely crowd from the ESO playerbase, as always. Bet they're the same people who claim that the playerbase never says anything homophobic and all the abuse towards LGBT+ guilds are for totally unrelated reasons entirely.
When you use your identity and assumed uniqueness as a shield, yes, it’s called “woke identity politics” you are literally politicking around your identity.
It has nothing to do with hate speech, or ignoring real world issues, and everything to do with entitlement. Because Leona identifies as trans, she felt obligated to different standards, and when she didn’t receive those, it was because she was being discriminated for being trans.
Until we know for certain any discrimination took place specifically because her gender, it’s about worker’s rights.
Feel free to keep reporting opinions that don’t align with yours, while slinging gross allegations.
It’s a great look.
Oh please, this thread is full of people more or less showing their not so veiled opinion of the LGBTQ+. She doesn't want special treatment, she wants to be treated like anyone else, which can include things like having her name changed, which is not rare for companies to do.
As soon as people use "woke" unironically it gets hard take them seriously. It's the same as people using SJWs some years back.
Woke.
“…an adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) meaning "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination". Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism.“
Take whatever you want serious as your opinion is inconsequential, you’re not going to deny the relevance this poses to the thread.
"When this term became popularized, initially the meaning of this term was when an individual become more aware of the social injustice. Or basically, any current affairs related like biased, discrimination, or double-standards.
However, as time passed by, people started using this term recklessly, assigning this term to themselves or someone they know to boost their confidence and reassure them that they have the moral high grounds and are fighting for the better world. And sometimes even using it as a way to protect themselves from other people's opinion, by considering the 'outsider' as non-woke. While people that are in line with their belief as woke. Meaning that those 'outsiders' have been brainwash by the society and couldn't see the truth. Thus, filtering everything that the 'outsider' gives regardless whether it is rationale or not.
And as of now, the original meaning is slowly fading and instead, is used more often to term someone as hypocritical and think they are the 'enlightened' despite the fact that they are extremely close-minded and are unable to accept other people's criticism or different perspective. Especially considering the existence of echo chamber(media) that helped them to find other like-minded individuals, thus, further solidifying their 'progressive' opinion."
Mhmm yes, relative to the thread.
Urban dictionary is not a reliable source for information, it is user generated and it feels a bit stilted using it to try and refute a quote from a journal.
Everyone has blinkers on and only sees what they want to see, endorses what aligns with their values and this whole thread is becoming a farce.
Except in this case it is as reliable as a dictionary definition, because the word is rarely ever used as it's official definition, and the Urban dictionary is written by people of the internet and social media, who are the ones using it. The word has lost its official definition, and is now often used by so called enlightened people to toot their own horn, who are in truth just close-minded and bigoted.
Woke was about informing of prejudice and discrimination, but has now been taken up by the people it was against to endorse their indoctrination instead.
It shouldn't be difficult to people not to be a**holes.
My point is that anyone can log in and write a definition on that website. I don't think it is productive to use a source that not even the users of the website agree on - a quarter of the votes are thumbs down and there's less than 2000 responses. That's hardly a significant enough pool to demonstrate anything with accuracy. Anyone can write a definition on that website and it doesn't inherently represent anything to do with the real world.
Other more "serious" sites say pretty much the same thing, including wikipedia, which Tyrant Tim seemed to have quoted a tiny bit off, and merriam-webster.
Also, replying to someone with just a word definition is often the mark of the people who use it as a pejorative.Edited by NotaDaedraWorshipper on July 19, 2023 8:20PM[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!4 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »we’re all entitled to peace of mind, but not at the expense of others
How does the woman this thread is about bother you personally?
It’s not mine, it’s the companies, and the manager to be precise, they made an honest mistake, one that anyone with the slightest bit of perception could deduce for themselves, or could replicate.
They have yet to have any defense to these claims, so it’s fair to provide the possibility of one.
Why is it fair to automatically assume this manager targeted Leona?
It is NOT fair to provide a possibility of defense because you're using conjecture and assumptions instead of facts to assume Leona's guilt. This means you're looking through Leona's evidence with the assumption that SHE is guilty of lying and that it definitely did not have anything to do with her being trans.
If and when ZOS provides their own defense then you can make one based on the actual facts of the case.
Neutrality is neither side is guilty or innocent until all of the facts have been reviewed. Compassion towards Leona is "If what she alleges is true, then I'm sorry she went through that."
Leona deserves a careful review of the facts of her case without combing through them with the assumption she's lying as a defense of ZOS. ZOS deserves the same.
7 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »On top of that, my own professional experiences have name changes processed in weeks, not months.
My professional experiences is that the employee badge change gets processed in weeks, once the appropriate proof of name change was submitted. In other words, you cannot just walk in and say my name is now this. You need to show something like a passport/social security card/drivers license to prove your new name, and only then would they start working on getting you a new employee badge. However, computer enterprise login name changes sometimes never happened. As others have said on this thread, I also know women whose login was based on their last name when they were hired, even though they had married or divorced since then, and their last name was now different. Their employee badge had their current legal last name, but their login did not.
My company does both (days on the badge, 3-4 weeks for computer) and it's less technically advanced than Zeni. In addition, Zeni DOES process name changes and attempted to do so for Leona but they botched it and then blamed her.2 -
Stanx✭✭✭✭✭
✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Man, I'm only on page three of this thread and I've already hit the apparent spam filter on reports about six times. Have to go out now, so will be back later, but it's been a pleasure reading about how trans people are "woke identity politics". Lovely crowd from the ESO playerbase, as always. Bet they're the same people who claim that the playerbase never says anything homophobic and all the abuse towards LGBT+ guilds are for totally unrelated reasons entirely.
When you use your identity and assumed uniqueness as a shield, yes, it’s called “woke identity politics” you are literally politicking around your identity.
It has nothing to do with hate speech, or ignoring real world issues, and everything to do with entitlement. Because Leona identifies as trans, she felt obligated to different standards, and when she didn’t receive those, it was because she was being discriminated for being trans.
Until we know for certain any discrimination took place specifically because her gender, it’s about worker’s rights.
Feel free to keep reporting opinions that don’t align with yours, while slinging gross allegations.
It’s a great look.
Oh please, this thread is full of people more or less showing their not so veiled opinion of the LGBTQ+. She doesn't want special treatment, she wants to be treated like anyone else, which can include things like having her name changed, which is not rare for companies to do.
As soon as people use "woke" unironically it gets hard take them seriously. It's the same as people using SJWs some years back.
Woke.
“…an adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) meaning "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination". Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism.“
Take whatever you want serious as your opinion is inconsequential, you’re not going to deny the relevance this poses to the thread.
"When this term became popularized, initially the meaning of this term was when an individual become more aware of the social injustice. Or basically, any current affairs related like biased, discrimination, or double-standards.
However, as time passed by, people started using this term recklessly, assigning this term to themselves or someone they know to boost their confidence and reassure them that they have the moral high grounds and are fighting for the better world. And sometimes even using it as a way to protect themselves from other people's opinion, by considering the 'outsider' as non-woke. While people that are in line with their belief as woke. Meaning that those 'outsiders' have been brainwash by the society and couldn't see the truth. Thus, filtering everything that the 'outsider' gives regardless whether it is rationale or not.
And as of now, the original meaning is slowly fading and instead, is used more often to term someone as hypocritical and think they are the 'enlightened' despite the fact that they are extremely close-minded and are unable to accept other people's criticism or different perspective. Especially considering the existence of echo chamber(media) that helped them to find other like-minded individuals, thus, further solidifying their 'progressive' opinion."
Mhmm yes, relative to the thread.
Urban dictionary is not a reliable source for information, it is user generated and it feels a bit stilted using it to try and refute a quote from a journal.
Everyone has blinkers on and only sees what they want to see, endorses what aligns with their values and this whole thread is becoming a farce.
Except in this case it is as reliable as a dictionary definition, because the word is rarely ever used as it's official definition, and the Urban dictionary is written by people of the internet and social media, who are the ones using it. The word has lost its official definition, and is now often used by so called enlightened people to toot their own horn, who are in truth just close-minded and bigoted.
Woke was about informing of prejudice and discrimination, but has now been taken up by the people it was against to endorse their indoctrination instead.
It shouldn't be difficult to people not to be a**holes.
My point is that anyone can log in and write a definition on that website. I don't think it is productive to use a source that not even the users of the website agree on - a quarter of the votes are thumbs down and there's less than 2000 responses. That's hardly a significant enough pool to demonstrate anything with accuracy. Anyone can write a definition on that website and it doesn't inherently represent anything to do with the real world.
Other more "serious" sites say pretty much the same thing, including wikipedia, which Tyrant Tim seemed to have quoted a tiny bit off, and merriam-webster.
I'm from the UK but I believe Merriam-Webster is intended to be a source of officially approved definitions. A quick search says its existed for 150 years and is used extensively as a credible academic source. Wikipedia is just as bad as urban dictionary in essence, but they provide reference links to the journals cited a lot of the time, as they did in this case.3 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.
Get back to me when you’ve done your research.
But I also don't care.
That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.
Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.
Stop mentioning my posts.
Something about pot calling the kettle black.[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!12 -
thejadefalcon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.
Get back to me when you’ve done your research.
But I also don't care.
That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.
Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.
Stop mentioning my posts.
No. You don't get to say "this conversation is over" just because you're afraid of someone rebutting you. This is a public forum. If you want to stop interacting with me, that is on you. I wouldn't have been called back to this page if you didn't reply to my post.
You want to talk about agendas full of hate? Reply to the transphobe who called your post perfect and call them out on their bigotry. Then we'll talk about agendas full of hate.11 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.
Get back to me when you’ve done your research.
But I also don't care.
That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.
Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.
Stop mentioning my posts.
Something about pot calling the kettle black.
@NotaDaedraWorshipper, because you, like a few vocal others are lacking the thumb strength to scroll, I will post it for now the fourth time…Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Finally, let’s make this very clear.
If it’s determined in court that ZOS are held liable for neglect or malpractice in the workplace, you can expect the same level of defense for Faren not just from me, but from everyone.
Until then, let’s end the speculation and get back to the important things like buffing Templar.
Are you genuinely trying to troll, or just a passive one, either way, you’re a post away from an ignore.
Make it count.Edited by Tyrant_Tim on July 19, 2023 8:32PM6 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.
Get back to me when you’ve done your research.
But I also don't care.
That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.
Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.
Stop mentioning my posts.
Something about pot calling the kettle black.
@NotaDaedraWorshipper, because you, like a few vocal others are lacking the thumb strength to scroll, I will post it for now the fourth time…Tyrant_Tim wrote: »@thejadefalcon, since you didn’t understand it the last two times you read it, or willfully chose to ignore it, the more likely of options you chose…Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Finally, let’s make this very clear.
If it’s determined in court that ZOS are held liable for neglect or malpractice in the workplace, you can expect the same level of defense for Faren not just from me, but from everyone.
Until then, let’s end the speculation and get back to the important things like buffing Templar.
If Faren’s rights were confirmed to be violated, you would be hard pressed to find someone who didn’t support her.
Posts on the internet are not substantial evidence, neither is an audio recording of a manager that is more than likely equally irritated at the length with which it’s taking IT to set up her account.Tyrant_Tim wrote: »The reason they were fired encouraged to resign had nothing to do with their transition, and everything to do with how their work ethic was being impacted.Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Why do you keep injecting the word “trans” into your comments when it involves victimization? It’s as if you feel that adding it as a describing characteristics adds more strength to your comment. It’s very weird to say the least. You could have made that same post without throwing that in there but felt it was necessary.
Feels forced, like you’re pushing a narrative.Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Making a non-consenting recording like that in Maryland is a felony. Hope Leona has good legal representation.
Yup. We don't know that's it is non-consenting. It appears like that right now. But, we don't know for sure. We also don't know the terms of her gender reassignment agreement that barred her from suing. It's possible that there was a non-disclosure in that as well.
We do know; I think Leona apologizing for lying about whether she had recorded conversations (2:14:00) with the manager who was standing up for her, shows clearly that there was not consent. If there was consent, why would the manager ask if he'd been recorded? If there was consent why would Leona lie and say no?
Yup. Missed that part. Yeah, looks like she's basically admitting to it when it comes to at least one of the parties. Foolish thing to do.
Additionally saying "after it came out that I recorded Elphaba" shows non-consent there too. If there was consent, why would it have to come out that she'd done it, both parties would know it had been done.
Listening to the entire 4 hours of this video, shows a lot more of the story than the 23 minute "TL/DR" hype rage video shared.
I'm not sure why it matters so much to some people in this thread whether or not the recording was made properly under Maryland law, aside from salivating over the thought of a trans person being punished for trying to protect herself. Nothing about the contents of the recording changes no matter what Maryland law says. And, not that it matters, but a DA is never going to waste their time filing charges over something like this. The only thing this might do is cause harm to a potential wrongful termination suit on Leona's part - but that is her problem, not anyone else's.
Why do you keep injecting the word “trans” into your comments when it involves victimization? It’s as if you feel that adding it as a describing characteristics adds more strength to your comment. It’s very weird to say the least. You could have made that same post without throwing that in there but felt it was necessary.
Feels forced, like you’re pushing a narrative.
This whole situation is about trans rights.
No, it is about worker’s rights, and whether she expressed hers properly.
You keep using the word “trans” as some weird victim rallying cry when in all reality, you could go through this whole thread and how it pertains to Leona and completely remove the word while retaining the same talking points.
Did her manager reveal her medical info?
Did her manager stall with the account change?
Did her manager present bias towards her?
All of those things would be wrong, regardless of whether or not she was transitioning.
You can accomplish the same message without having to twist up the narrative.
Don’t believe me? Try it.
Since you seem confused why people think you're painting her case as definitely nothing to do with trans discrimination and ZOS as definitely innocent, given the reply you linked, here's some pertinent posts. If you want to clarify your stance, this would be a good time as the other posts does not address these statements and that is why it's disregarded. I don't enjoy my posts being misconstrued so that is why I wanted to give you the opportunity to clarify yours.Edited by spartaxoxo on July 19, 2023 8:38PM13 -
AzuraFan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Where's the dysphoria coming from, if it is not an incongruency in fetal development?
I don't know the answer to that, but I need to point out that not all trans people experience dysphoria. "Transgender" today is an umbrella term, which can be confusing. Most people who haven't done any reading about this topic think "transgender" refers to people who suffer gender dysphoria and want surgery, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, most trans people don't get surgery and many don't feel surgery is necessary and don't want it. Those who suffer from dysphoria are only one group within the larger group.
Science does know, however, that people aren't trans because their brains are the wrong gender for their bodies - because there are no differences between the brains of males and females (except size). Maybe more research has to be done, but so far no brain imaging study has shown a difference between the brains of transwomen and men, and transmen and women.
Of course, science doesn't stand still, but so far no reputable study has found a difference. That isn't surprising, and shouldn't matter. The experiences of trans people are real (and so is the discrimination). I'm just saying the trans condition (for lack of a better way of putting it) can't be explained due to there being a mismatch between a gendered-brain (which doesn't exist) and the body.
(I suggest you look up Ray Blanchard. I don't want to repeat his research and theories here because they're a hot topic, but it could give you food for thought and lead you down other avenues.)
Edited by AzuraFan on July 19, 2023 8:36PM2 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.
Get back to me when you’ve done your research.
But I also don't care.
That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.
Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.
Stop mentioning my posts.
No. You don't get to say "this conversation is over" just because you're afraid of someone rebutting you. This is a public forum. If you want to stop interacting with me, that is on you. I wouldn't have been called back to this page if you didn't reply to my post.
You want to talk about agendas full of hate? Reply to the transphobe who called your post perfect and call them out on their bigotry. Then we'll talk about agendas full of hate.
My post is perfect.
No I don’t believe it’s a fantasy to believe you are uncomfortable in your skin and want to change that, neither is it my responsibility to hold someone who supported my post accountable for their beliefs.
They are their own person, and who am I to tell them they are wrong for believing in something I don’t?
If you read even a quarter of my posts, you would have understood that. You can believe whatever you want, about whatever you want, but when you come to my video game forum, pointing fingers at a company I have always known to be inclusive, I am going to give THEM the benefit of the doubt, as they have a track record of inclusion.12 -
thejadefalcon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.
Get back to me when you’ve done your research.
But I also don't care.
That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.
Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.
Stop mentioning my posts.
No. You don't get to say "this conversation is over" just because you're afraid of someone rebutting you. This is a public forum. If you want to stop interacting with me, that is on you. I wouldn't have been called back to this page if you didn't reply to my post.
You want to talk about agendas full of hate? Reply to the transphobe who called your post perfect and call them out on their bigotry. Then we'll talk about agendas full of hate.
My post is perfect.
No I don’t believe it’s a fantasy to believe you are uncomfortable in your skin and want to change that, neither is it my responsibility to hold someone who supported my post accountable for their beliefs.
They are their own person, and who am I to tell them they are wrong for believing in something I don’t?
If you read even a quarter of my posts, you would have understood that. You can believe whatever you want, about whatever you want, but when you come to my video game forum, pointing fingers at a company I have always known to be inclusive, I am going to give THEM the benefit of the doubt, as they have a track record of inclusion.
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to stop interacting with me?
If you genuinely believed a word you just said, you'd have called them out on it because you would have found what they said to be disgusting. You've been extremely prompt to argue with just about everyone else, telling them that they're wrong for believing in something you don't (reminder, you just said that my agenda of "treat trans people with respect" was "hate"), and you don't have a problem with that.
It seems odd that post alone, the one that fully agreed with you and used your post as a jumping off point for outright bigotry, is the one that goes unspoken against.
Also, this isn't YOUR forum. And not all of us have always known ZOS to be inclusive. This isn't the first screw up they've made and it won't be the last.16 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I actually do consider ZOS a generally progressive company. They could have a perfect board and lead dev team (they don't but for the sake of argument) and still find themselves hiring a manager who acted in a discriminatory way. Hundreds of people work for that company. It's not outside the realm of reason that Leona experienced discrimination at the hands of her manager and hr rep and that zos is usually progressive.
A corporation is just a group of people acting in unison for the benefit of a brand making money. It's not actually an omnipotent person that knows what all of it's employees will do, regardless of it's legal status as such.
Edited by spartaxoxo on July 19, 2023 8:51PM9 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.
Get back to me when you’ve done your research.
But I also don't care.
That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.
Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.
Stop mentioning my posts.
No. You don't get to say "this conversation is over" just because you're afraid of someone rebutting you. This is a public forum. If you want to stop interacting with me, that is on you. I wouldn't have been called back to this page if you didn't reply to my post.
You want to talk about agendas full of hate? Reply to the transphobe who called your post perfect and call them out on their bigotry. Then we'll talk about agendas full of hate.
My post is perfect.
No I don’t believe it’s a fantasy to believe you are uncomfortable in your skin and want to change that, neither is it my responsibility to hold someone who supported my post accountable for their beliefs.
They are their own person, and who am I to tell them they are wrong for believing in something I don’t?
If you read even a quarter of my posts, you would have understood that. You can believe whatever you want, about whatever you want, but when you come to my video game forum, pointing fingers at a company I have always known to be inclusive, I am going to give THEM the benefit of the doubt, as they have a track record of inclusion.
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to stop interacting with me?
By your very definition, as a bigot, using the argument that ZOS terrorized Leona by continuing to do something after she said “stop” you have continued to offer extremely skewed interpretations of my posts after I said to stop.
So what is it?
Does stop mean stop?
You want to insinuate I’m a bigot for not trying to tell someone that they are wrong for a belief, yet you find it acceptable to completely ignore the fact that I told you to stop pulling me into your arguments.Edited by Tyrant_Tim on July 19, 2023 8:55PM5 -
thejadefalcon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.
Get back to me when you’ve done your research.
But I also don't care.
That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.
Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.
Stop mentioning my posts.
No. You don't get to say "this conversation is over" just because you're afraid of someone rebutting you. This is a public forum. If you want to stop interacting with me, that is on you. I wouldn't have been called back to this page if you didn't reply to my post.
You want to talk about agendas full of hate? Reply to the transphobe who called your post perfect and call them out on their bigotry. Then we'll talk about agendas full of hate.
My post is perfect.
No I don’t believe it’s a fantasy to believe you are uncomfortable in your skin and want to change that, neither is it my responsibility to hold someone who supported my post accountable for their beliefs.
They are their own person, and who am I to tell them they are wrong for believing in something I don’t?
If you read even a quarter of my posts, you would have understood that. You can believe whatever you want, about whatever you want, but when you come to my video game forum, pointing fingers at a company I have always known to be inclusive, I am going to give THEM the benefit of the doubt, as they have a track record of inclusion.
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to stop interacting with me?
By your very definition, as a bigot, using the argument that ZOS terrorized Leona by continuing to do something after she said “stop” you have continued to offer extremely skewed interpretations of my posts after I said to stop.
So what is it?
Does stop mean stop?
Is that something we respect?
Bigotry at it’s finest.
If you want to leave a conversation on a public forum, you can either hit the block button or you can close the tab. You don't get to end a conversation by telling other people to leave you alone. That's not how forums work. If you want to stop a conversation, you have to actually stop.
The fact that you are equating this incredibly simple thing with someone who was repeatedly deadnamed, forcefully outed to others and forced from her source of income and livelihood tells us that you are not and never have been an ally to trans people.14 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.
Get back to me when you’ve done your research.
But I also don't care.
That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.
Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.
Stop mentioning my posts.
No. You don't get to say "this conversation is over" just because you're afraid of someone rebutting you. This is a public forum. If you want to stop interacting with me, that is on you. I wouldn't have been called back to this page if you didn't reply to my post.
You want to talk about agendas full of hate? Reply to the transphobe who called your post perfect and call them out on their bigotry. Then we'll talk about agendas full of hate.
My post is perfect.
No I don’t believe it’s a fantasy to believe you are uncomfortable in your skin and want to change that, neither is it my responsibility to hold someone who supported my post accountable for their beliefs.
They are their own person, and who am I to tell them they are wrong for believing in something I don’t?
If you read even a quarter of my posts, you would have understood that. You can believe whatever you want, about whatever you want, but when you come to my video game forum, pointing fingers at a company I have always known to be inclusive, I am going to give THEM the benefit of the doubt, as they have a track record of inclusion.
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to stop interacting with me?
By your very definition, as a bigot, using the argument that ZOS terrorized Leona by continuing to do something after she said “stop” you have continued to offer extremely skewed interpretations of my posts after I said to stop.
So what is it?
Does stop mean stop?
Is that something we respect?
Bigotry at it’s finest.
If you want to leave a conversation on a public forum, you can either hit the block button or you can close the tab. You don't get to end a conversation by telling other people to leave you alone. That's not how forums work. If you want to stop a conversation, you have to actually stop.
The fact that you are equating this incredibly simple thing with someone who was repeatedly deadnamed, forcefully outed to others and forced from her source of income and livelihood tells us that you are not and never have been an ally to trans people.
There it is again, more forced narrative. I’m not telling you to stop talking about a topic. I’m telling you to stop trying to use my post as a “jump-off” for transphobic script when nothing I had said had anything to do with hate for people transitioning.
Maybe I should be the one reporting for hate speech, because you surely have it out for me. 😂Edited by Tyrant_Tim on July 19, 2023 8:59PM10 -
Shepoffire✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »You can turn it into whatever you want
There's nothing turning about it. The manager tells her to go by a deadname and intentionally outed her in front of her colleagues.
There's not a chance that they aren't familiar with how to change names properly. People change their names all the time. It's customary for married women to change their names. Names get recorded incorrectly and need to be fixed. Unique names get misspelled and have to be updated.
It's far easier to believe that there was weaponized incompetence because they didn't support Leona's name change than it is to believe that a multimillion dollar corporation that's been around decades has never had to change someone's name before.
They certainly didn't pay for her expensive surgeries on the agreement she not sue them because name changes are generally beyond their capability.
They paid her to leave quietly because they didn’t want to have to build an extremely expensive defense team to combat her in court.
They wouldn't be worried about that if things were as cut and dry as you're trying to paint them to be. Her manager outed her and noticeably failed to do bare minimum things to the point other employees complained.
And yes, they can absolutely counter sue for legal fees.
Name changes literally happen all the time. I'm not talking about print name tags.
It’s more than likely not cut and dry, I’m sure there might have been some negligence at some point but whether or not it’s enough to get this bent over is another thing entirely. The best lies have some truth in them.
Under what premise could they counter-sue pre-deal? How is a corporation going to tell someone they are wrong for feeling emotional damage? At best they can not owe anything at settlement.
Also, corporate name changes do not literally happen all the time, they are a process, otherwise ZOS would have simply just done so. If it was as simple as you want to believe, they would have saved themselves the headache entirely.
From what I understand name changes are a legal matter. Idk if they changed their name legally but it's definitely a process.2 -
thejadefalcon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.
Get back to me when you’ve done your research.
But I also don't care.
That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.
Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.
Stop mentioning my posts.
No. You don't get to say "this conversation is over" just because you're afraid of someone rebutting you. This is a public forum. If you want to stop interacting with me, that is on you. I wouldn't have been called back to this page if you didn't reply to my post.
You want to talk about agendas full of hate? Reply to the transphobe who called your post perfect and call them out on their bigotry. Then we'll talk about agendas full of hate.
My post is perfect.
No I don’t believe it’s a fantasy to believe you are uncomfortable in your skin and want to change that, neither is it my responsibility to hold someone who supported my post accountable for their beliefs.
They are their own person, and who am I to tell them they are wrong for believing in something I don’t?
If you read even a quarter of my posts, you would have understood that. You can believe whatever you want, about whatever you want, but when you come to my video game forum, pointing fingers at a company I have always known to be inclusive, I am going to give THEM the benefit of the doubt, as they have a track record of inclusion.
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to stop interacting with me?
By your very definition, as a bigot, using the argument that ZOS terrorized Leona by continuing to do something after she said “stop” you have continued to offer extremely skewed interpretations of my posts after I said to stop.
So what is it?
Does stop mean stop?
Is that something we respect?
Bigotry at it’s finest.
If you want to leave a conversation on a public forum, you can either hit the block button or you can close the tab. You don't get to end a conversation by telling other people to leave you alone. That's not how forums work. If you want to stop a conversation, you have to actually stop.
The fact that you are equating this incredibly simple thing with someone who was repeatedly deadnamed, forcefully outed to others and forced from her source of income and livelihood tells us that you are not and never have been an ally to trans people.
There it is again, more forced narrative. I’m not telling you to stop talking about a topic. I’m telling you to stop trying to use my post as a “jump-off” for transphobic script when nothing I had said had anything to do with hate for people transitioning.
Maybe I should be the one reporting for hate speech, because you surely have it out for me. 😂
You told me to stop replying to you, while continuing to reply to me. A five year old could figure out the flaw with this plan of yours.9 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »You need to re-read the whole thread before throwing around accusations. You would find a well written explanation for why I don’t use the term “dead name” and an explanation to any of your other weird claims.
Get back to me when you’ve done your research.
But I also don't care.
That about summarizes your presence on this thread. You don’t care, you don’t want a back and forth discussion, you want to point fingers and call people bigots and transphobes.
Your agenda is hate, and there’s nothing more to discuss, because you are only capable of blaming others.
Stop mentioning my posts.
No. You don't get to say "this conversation is over" just because you're afraid of someone rebutting you. This is a public forum. If you want to stop interacting with me, that is on you. I wouldn't have been called back to this page if you didn't reply to my post.
You want to talk about agendas full of hate? Reply to the transphobe who called your post perfect and call them out on their bigotry. Then we'll talk about agendas full of hate.
My post is perfect.
No I don’t believe it’s a fantasy to believe you are uncomfortable in your skin and want to change that, neither is it my responsibility to hold someone who supported my post accountable for their beliefs.
They are their own person, and who am I to tell them they are wrong for believing in something I don’t?
If you read even a quarter of my posts, you would have understood that. You can believe whatever you want, about whatever you want, but when you come to my video game forum, pointing fingers at a company I have always known to be inclusive, I am going to give THEM the benefit of the doubt, as they have a track record of inclusion.
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to stop interacting with me?
By your very definition, as a bigot, using the argument that ZOS terrorized Leona by continuing to do something after she said “stop” you have continued to offer extremely skewed interpretations of my posts after I said to stop.
So what is it?
Does stop mean stop?
Is that something we respect?
Bigotry at it’s finest.
If you want to leave a conversation on a public forum, you can either hit the block button or you can close the tab. You don't get to end a conversation by telling other people to leave you alone. That's not how forums work. If you want to stop a conversation, you have to actually stop.
The fact that you are equating this incredibly simple thing with someone who was repeatedly deadnamed, forcefully outed to others and forced from her source of income and livelihood tells us that you are not and never have been an ally to trans people.
There it is again, more forced narrative. I’m not telling you to stop talking about a topic. I’m telling you to stop trying to use my post as a “jump-off” for transphobic script when nothing I had said had anything to do with hate for people transitioning.
Maybe I should be the one reporting for hate speech, because you surely have it out for me. 😂
You told me to stop replying to you, while continuing to reply to me. A five year old could figure out the flaw with this plan of yours.
I didn’t tell myself to stop.
So you’re openly embracing the fact that you’re the bigot in this entire situation. Fantastic.
Stop means stop, take flight.Edited by Tyrant_Tim on July 19, 2023 9:12PM9 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[snip].
There are many trans women who are attracted to women and trans men who are attracted to men, though?I don't know the answer to that, but I need to point out that not all trans people experience dysphoria.
I know, but what I am wondering about is not the "cause" of trans people existing, but the cause of dysphoria - or the explanation how someone's physical sex can feel wrong to that person. It must have some neurological explanation if perfectly sane people can get this "sentiment". The dysphoric trans people I know personally are no nutjobs, but intelligent, well-educated, down-to-earth and sane people, after all.(I suggest you look up Ray Blanchard
I know him and his theories don't convince me.
[Edited for Quote]Edited by ZOS_Phoenix on July 20, 2023 3:12AM@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake1
This discussion has been closed.