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So does Zenimax Studios have an explanation for this situation involving a Trans employee ?
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wilykcat✭✭✭✭✭
✭This discussion should be closed as it is causing lots of heated arguments on a very sensitive/controversial/personal topic.
It is upsetting everyone on both sides. I don't like seeing discussions like this as it ruins the fun and enjoyment of the forums and the games.
People here are upset, threatening to report and ban others, lots of misunderstandings, lots of personal information being shared, and trolling/baiting/attention seeking.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
Please close this. It will do everyone a favor.26 -
Lady_Galadhiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭.This discussion should be closed as it is causing lots of heated arguments on a very sensitive/controversial/personal topic.
It is upsetting everyone on both sides. I don't like seeing discussions like this as it ruins the fun and enjoyment of the forums and the games.
People here are upset, threatening to report and ban others, lots of misunderstandings, lots of personal information being shared, and trolling/baiting/attention seeking.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
Please close this. It will do everyone a favor.
So much this.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_GinaBrunoTotal ESO playtime: 8325 hours
ESO plus status: Cancelled
ESO currently uninstalled.12 -
Clyde_BlueSnake✭✭✭I'm going to quote The Elder Memes for what they say on Twitter days ago is basically my thoughts on this:We celebrate ZOS when they do right, and it's equally important we hold them accountable when they do wrong. The situation outlined by Leona is horrendous and my hope is ZOS addresses it with transparency. No one deserves to be mistreated based on gender identity.Edited by Clyde_BlueSnake on July 18, 2023 5:18PMMain is Blue-Thuxis, a Argonian stamSorc, whose also is a werewolf! 2nd main, Cobalt-Thuxis, a Argonian stamArc, an identical twin sister to Blue-Thuxis, even is a werewolf as well! some alts:Nirn-Scale Rajthux (Argonian, Templar), Ros-Ei Nature-Thuxis (Argonian, Warden), Crimson-Thuxis (Argonian, DK), Bone-Thuxis Tharn (Argonian, Necro) Why Bone-Thuxis has Tharn as a last name:Some ESO history: I originally started from PS4 NA during June 10, 2015, I did reached CP 810+ on there. I eventually kinda got tired of paying PS+, so during February 4, 2019 I started moving to PC NA. Also CP: 810+. Nowadays I play ESO PC mostly, while PS4 is dust.The siblings were separated at a young age due to a Dres slaver raid, Blue, Cobalt, Ros-Ei & their mother were able to escape, Crimson & Bone weren't that lucky. Crimson was later "rescued" by some Orcs that later ambushed the House Dres Dunmers, unfortunately one Dunmer remained & sadly successfully brought the young Bone-Thuxis to the Dres plantation. Later an Imperial, a Tharn, bought Bone at a auction & later told he was free, the young Argonian sadly had no idea where to go & doesn't know if his family was still alive, so the Tharn adopted him into House Tharn. This family of Argonians finally reunited years later., Kenneth Clyde (Nord, Sorc), Selene Gray-Thuxis (Argonian, Nightblade), Urmanda (Orc, Warden)16 -
wilykcat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lady_Galadhiel wrote: ».This discussion should be closed as it is causing lots of heated arguments on a very sensitive/controversial/personal topic.
It is upsetting everyone on both sides. I don't like seeing discussions like this as it ruins the fun and enjoyment of the forums and the games.
People here are upset, threatening to report and ban others, lots of misunderstandings, lots of personal information being shared, and trolling/baiting/attention seeking.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
Please close this. It will do everyone a favor.
So much this.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Are you threatening me?
Do you want me and others to lose their accounts?
Why do you think this is OK?Edited by wilykcat on July 18, 2023 5:20PM1 -
BlindingBright✭✭✭It's pretty common for companies to project an air of "Acceptance" and "Support" of LGBT workers- but then to just completely muck up ACTUALLY being an ally.
No amount of trainings or seminars will help... if anything those trainings & seminars teach the true bigots how to keep being bigots AND keep their job. And with the way things are now, the company can 100% have a policy, and even "programs" designed for LGBT employees... but that doesn't stop people in the workforce from being bigots... nor is it a reason to burn ESO to the ground.
The term bigots needs to be used more. A lot of them that have felt more empowered lately than I've ever seen. Going through transition on the job is a royal PITA- having co-workers act-a-fool and producing bigoted behavior? sad reality.... No cooperate policy can protect an employee from a bigoted manager, they'll always find a loop-hole to mess with a trans employee if they want to.
Normally I am against releasing of "private" work meetings/emails/info, but in the case of exposing bigotry and mistreatment- is 100% justified. Many people in that situation don't have many other options, and finding/affording proper council can be difficult.... Most lawyers would never want to take this sort of case on, and even LGBT law centers do practically NOTHING to help people in these situations, unless... it becomes newsworthy, which it is now. These sorts of issues happen all the time and never see the light of day.
I wish people would just chill out on trans peeps and the rest of the rainbow- life has been pretty intense lately for a lot of folk. You don't need to know their struggles- just treat people with respect, and give them the space they need to deal with their medical stuff.This discussion should be closed as it is causing lots of heated arguments on a very sensitive/controversial/personal topic.
It is upsetting everyone on both sides. I don't like seeing discussions like this as it ruins the fun and enjoyment of the forums and the games.
People here are upset, threatening to report and ban others, lots of misunderstandings, lots of personal information being shared, and trolling/baiting/attention seeking.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
Please close this. It will do everyone a favor.
Let the bigots be upset... and may as well start silencing users like they have tried to silence their employee? By ignoring this issue it only favors those that are protected from such discrimination and further illustrates a deeper problem. IMHO you're a bigot(not a slur, or derogatory term) for wanting to silence this issue. Don't want to read this thread, don't engage- no reason to try and silence others.15 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lady_Galadhiel wrote: ».This discussion should be closed as it is causing lots of heated arguments on a very sensitive/controversial/personal topic.
It is upsetting everyone on both sides. I don't like seeing discussions like this as it ruins the fun and enjoyment of the forums and the games.
People here are upset, threatening to report and ban others, lots of misunderstandings, lots of personal information being shared, and trolling/baiting/attention seeking.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
Please close this. It will do everyone a favor.
So much this.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Are you threatening me?
Do you want me and others to lose their accounts?
Why do you think this is OK?
Um. She's agreeing with you about closing the thread.....Edited by TaSheen on July 18, 2023 5:26PM______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....17 -
Lady_Galadhiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lady_Galadhiel wrote: ».This discussion should be closed as it is causing lots of heated arguments on a very sensitive/controversial/personal topic.
It is upsetting everyone on both sides. I don't like seeing discussions like this as it ruins the fun and enjoyment of the forums and the games.
People here are upset, threatening to report and ban others, lots of misunderstandings, lots of personal information being shared, and trolling/baiting/attention seeking.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
Please close this. It will do everyone a favor.
So much this.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Are you threatening me?
Do you want me and others to lose their accounts?
Why do you think this is OK?
I am agreeing with your statement, this is why I quoted your comment and tagged the mods once again and added one more.
But ok,whatever.
Total ESO playtime: 8325 hours
ESO plus status: Cancelled
ESO currently uninstalled.21 -
Ingel_Riday✭✭✭✭✭Clyde_BlueSnake wrote: »I'm going to quote The Elder Memes for what they say on Twitter days ago is basically my thoughts on this:We celebrate ZOS when they do right, and it's equally important we hold them accountable when they do wrong. The situation outlined by Leona is horrendous and my hope is ZOS addresses it with transparency. No one deserves to be mistreated based on gender identity.
I love this current culture of "guilty until proven innocent."
Don't assume someone is lying when they starting pointing fingers, but also... don't assume that the person being pointed at is automatically a guilty sinner.
Just because someone accuses you of being evil doesn't mean that you are. There is no proof that ZOS "did wrong." This is ridiculous. I genuinely hope that you are given more of a benefit of a doubt in your life than you give others.30 -
wilykcat✭✭✭✭✭
✭BlindingBright wrote: »It's pretty common for companies to project an air of "Acceptance" and "Support" of LGBT workers- but then to just completely muck up ACTUALLY being an ally.
No amount of trainings or seminars will help... if anything those trainings & seminars teach the true bigots how to keep being bigots AND keep their job. And with the way things are now, the company can 100% have a policy, and even "programs" designed for LGBT employees... but that doesn't stop people in the workforce from being bigots... nor is it a reason to burn ESO to the ground.
The term bigots needs to be used more. A lot of them that have felt more empowered lately than I've ever seen. Going through transition on the job is a royal PITA- having co-workers act-a-fool and producing bigoted behavior? sad reality.... No cooperate policy can protect an employee from a bigoted manager, they'll always find a loop-hole to mess with a trans employee if they want to.
Normally I am against releasing of "private" work meetings/emails/info, but in the case of exposing bigotry and mistreatment- is 100% justified. Many people in that situation don't have many other options, and finding/affording proper council can be difficult.... Most lawyers would never want to take this sort of case on, and even LGBT law centers do practically NOTHING to help people in these situations, unless... it becomes newsworthy, which it is now. These sorts of issues happen all the time and never see the light of day.
I wish people would just chill out on trans peeps and the rest of the rainbow- life has been pretty intense lately for a lot of folk. You don't need to know their struggles- just treat people with respect, and give them the space they need to deal with their medical stuff.This discussion should be closed as it is causing lots of heated arguments on a very sensitive/controversial/personal topic.
It is upsetting everyone on both sides. I don't like seeing discussions like this as it ruins the fun and enjoyment of the forums and the games.
People here are upset, threatening to report and ban others, lots of misunderstandings, lots of personal information being shared, and trolling/baiting/attention seeking.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
Please close this. It will do everyone a favor.
Let the bigots be upset... and may as well start silencing users like they have tried to silence their employee? By ignoring this issue it only favors those that are protected from such discrimination and further illustrates a deeper problem. IMHO you're a bigot(not a slur, or derogatory term) for wanting to silence this issue. Don't want to read this thread, don't engage- no reason to try and silence others.
I'm not a bigot
I'm not taking sides. How dare you insult me, my opinions, and beliefs.
Edited by wilykcat on July 18, 2023 5:27PM26 -
BlindingBright✭✭✭BlindingBright wrote: »It's pretty common for companies to project an air of "Acceptance" and "Support" of LGBT workers- but then to just completely muck up ACTUALLY being an ally.
No amount of trainings or seminars will help... if anything those trainings & seminars teach the true bigots how to keep being bigots AND keep their job. And with the way things are now, the company can 100% have a policy, and even "programs" designed for LGBT employees... but that doesn't stop people in the workforce from being bigots... nor is it a reason to burn ESO to the ground.
The term bigots needs to be used more. A lot of them that have felt more empowered lately than I've ever seen. Going through transition on the job is a royal PITA- having co-workers act-a-fool and producing bigoted behavior? sad reality.... No cooperate policy can protect an employee from a bigoted manager, they'll always find a loop-hole to mess with a trans employee if they want to.
Normally I am against releasing of "private" work meetings/emails/info, but in the case of exposing bigotry and mistreatment- is 100% justified. Many people in that situation don't have many other options, and finding/affording proper council can be difficult.... Most lawyers would never want to take this sort of case on, and even LGBT law centers do practically NOTHING to help people in these situations, unless... it becomes newsworthy, which it is now. These sorts of issues happen all the time and never see the light of day.
I wish people would just chill out on trans peeps and the rest of the rainbow- life has been pretty intense lately for a lot of folk. You don't need to know their struggles- just treat people with respect, and give them the space they need to deal with their medical stuff.This discussion should be closed as it is causing lots of heated arguments on a very sensitive/controversial/personal topic.
It is upsetting everyone on both sides. I don't like seeing discussions like this as it ruins the fun and enjoyment of the forums and the games.
People here are upset, threatening to report and ban others, lots of misunderstandings, lots of personal information being shared, and trolling/baiting/attention seeking.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
Please close this. It will do everyone a favor.
Let the bigots be upset... and may as well start silencing users like they have tried to silence their employee? By ignoring this issue it only favors those that are protected from such discrimination and further illustrates a deeper problem. IMHO you're a bigot(not a slur, or derogatory term) for wanting to silence this issue. Don't want to read this thread, don't engage- no reason to try and silence others.
I'm not a bigot
I'm not taking sides. How dare you insult me, my opinions, and beliefs.
"a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group." by definition trying to shut down discussion about persecution of a group of people based on the fact you don't like it? I mean.... okay.
Again, re-emphasize, bigot is not a slur term, and in this case(and with a lot of replies in this thread) people are displaying bigoted behavior whether they label it as such or not. This is not a direct response to your post, nor was I trying to call the kettle black.10 -
SerafinaWaterstar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If other threads covering social-political real life events are closed down, then this one should be too.
Especially when it is an emotional topic with a variety of strong beliefs.
This is a forum for a game. Played by many around the entire globe, who will not all have the same opinions or beliefs about certain topics, but love the game. Bringing rl stuff is never a good idea.
But please, do not threaten to report people if they have a different opinion than you, or do not agree 100% with what you said. That does not encourage discourse or understanding.22 -
wilykcat✭✭✭✭✭
✭BlindingBright wrote: »BlindingBright wrote: »It's pretty common for companies to project an air of "Acceptance" and "Support" of LGBT workers- but then to just completely muck up ACTUALLY being an ally.
No amount of trainings or seminars will help... if anything those trainings & seminars teach the true bigots how to keep being bigots AND keep their job. And with the way things are now, the company can 100% have a policy, and even "programs" designed for LGBT employees... but that doesn't stop people in the workforce from being bigots... nor is it a reason to burn ESO to the ground.
The term bigots needs to be used more. A lot of them that have felt more empowered lately than I've ever seen. Going through transition on the job is a royal PITA- having co-workers act-a-fool and producing bigoted behavior? sad reality.... No cooperate policy can protect an employee from a bigoted manager, they'll always find a loop-hole to mess with a trans employee if they want to.
Normally I am against releasing of "private" work meetings/emails/info, but in the case of exposing bigotry and mistreatment- is 100% justified. Many people in that situation don't have many other options, and finding/affording proper council can be difficult.... Most lawyers would never want to take this sort of case on, and even LGBT law centers do practically NOTHING to help people in these situations, unless... it becomes newsworthy, which it is now. These sorts of issues happen all the time and never see the light of day.
I wish people would just chill out on trans peeps and the rest of the rainbow- life has been pretty intense lately for a lot of folk. You don't need to know their struggles- just treat people with respect, and give them the space they need to deal with their medical stuff.This discussion should be closed as it is causing lots of heated arguments on a very sensitive/controversial/personal topic.
It is upsetting everyone on both sides. I don't like seeing discussions like this as it ruins the fun and enjoyment of the forums and the games.
People here are upset, threatening to report and ban others, lots of misunderstandings, lots of personal information being shared, and trolling/baiting/attention seeking.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
Please close this. It will do everyone a favor.
Let the bigots be upset... and may as well start silencing users like they have tried to silence their employee? By ignoring this issue it only favors those that are protected from such discrimination and further illustrates a deeper problem. IMHO you're a bigot(not a slur, or derogatory term) for wanting to silence this issue. Don't want to read this thread, don't engage- no reason to try and silence others.
I'm not a bigot
I'm not taking sides. How dare you insult me, my opinions, and beliefs.
"a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group." by definition trying to shut down discussion about persecution of a group of people based on the fact you don't like it? I mean.... okay.
Again, re-emphasize, bigot is not a slur term, and in this case(and with a lot of replies in this thread) people are displaying bigoted behavior whether they label it as such or not. This is not a direct response to your post, nor was I trying to call the kettle black.
IStop calling me that word. Like I said I'm not taking sides on this issue. Why can't you understand my post. This discussion is annoying. I have no purpose here in this discussion anymore.
I'm sorry you assume people are bigots based on their beliefs. Everyone has the own opinions, values, standards, life style, and beliefs. Live and let live.17 -
BlindingBright✭✭✭SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »If other threads covering social-political real life events are closed down, then this one should be too.
Especially when it is an emotional topic with a variety of strong beliefs.
This is a forum for a game. Played by many around the entire globe, who will not all have the same opinions or beliefs about certain topics, but love the game. Bringing rl stuff is never a good idea.
But please, do not threaten to report people if they have a different opinion than you, or do not agree 100% with what you said. That does not encourage discourse or understanding.
Uhm, it matters when said game has won awards for being inclusive: https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2019/03/28/glaad-media-awards-2019-game-winner/ it's easy for companies to project an air of inclusiveness only to completely muck up what that means. TO say now it's not relevant to the game? Thank you for standing in the silence camp and wrong side of history.
ESO is known to be one of the most LGBT friendly MMO's, and I know a lot of folk in that camp that up till now were thrilled to have an IP that paid them any lip service or showed acceptance. To those players this topic is extremely relevant, as supporting a game company that outwardly wins awards for their LGBT content... but then brushes under the rug how they treat their developers within that community? Rainbow-washing....
And can guarantee there will be protests in game/out if they continually step over the line on this issue. Plus I am sure there are outside actors just waiting to hop on the hate-wagon to fuel the fire... but that doesn't mean the conversation should be silenced.9 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am just going to answer many comments in a single post. rather than replying to everyone.
Since it is directly related to the studio that makes the game I do not see why it shouldn't belong in the game forums for this game. If it is because some people have some kind of filters set up on their social for distressing things, should I put content warnings? The original post was very simple and non-specific so I felt that it wasn't required.
I think ZoS should comment, even if that comment is, "This is an active legal situation and we cannot comment on it." I want to know that ZoS understands that poor HR management around Trans people and Trans healthcare is a serious issue. I don't think they can always control how individuals within the company behave but dealing with disputes is what HR is for.
I will be clear I have not decided they are "guilty", I am asking to hear their side of the story explicitly in the title of this thread. I am willing to hear them out, but one side has provided evidence. I make judgements on how someone or some company responds to criticism as much if not more than the allegations themselves.
If you want me to take your opinion seriously do not use the word woke.14 -
Lebkuchen✭✭✭✭✭It's interesting how many people want this discussion to be closed. You want to take away everyone's voices just because the topic makes you uncomfortable? You don't think it matters to the customers how employees are being treated? Stuff like this happens all the time, not just in this company. Ignoring problems and silencing people who want to talk about problems does not make the problems go away. Maybe some of you should watch the tv series "Chernobyl" to see what happens when people ignore reality for too long.16
-
Katheriah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm honestly surprised this topic is still open. ZOS is never going to give an answer.14 -
BlindingBright✭✭✭It's interesting how many people want this discussion to be closed. You want to take away everyone's voices just because the topic makes you uncomfortable? You don't think it matters to the customers how employees are being treated? Stuff like this happens all the time, not just in this company. Ignoring problems and silencing people who want to talk about problems does not make the problems go away. Maybe some of you should watch the tv series "Chernobyl" to see what happens when people ignore reality for too long.
Its because a lot of people would rather trans people would just go away. They're tired of 0.1% of the population ruining their lives(sarcasm). It's like the laws passed in Utah that affected... 2 students in the entire state. It's a scape-goat issue as people tend to not understand (As very well illustrated by ZoS's management) the issues trans people face, and it's easy to label and silence a group of people that have practically no voice to talk back... while blaming them for issues they haven't caused...
People just love to be bigoted against trans people. People love to hate things they don't understand.22 -
MachineGod✭✭✭✭People come here for the game and to get away from real world issues. This topic simply does not belong here.
Un-happy about this company? Leave/Protest where ever else you like. I guarantee you will not touch their total worth while backed by Microsoft. Don't believe me? Look up who made 90%+ of the things you own and the nice places they have in their country and what happens to groups of people there. People turn a blind eye to things far worse than this one employee.Edited by MachineGod on July 18, 2023 6:07PM19 -
BlindingBright✭✭✭BlindingBright wrote: »BlindingBright wrote: »It's pretty common for companies to project an air of "Acceptance" and "Support" of LGBT workers- but then to just completely muck up ACTUALLY being an ally.
No amount of trainings or seminars will help... if anything those trainings & seminars teach the true bigots how to keep being bigots AND keep their job. And with the way things are now, the company can 100% have a policy, and even "programs" designed for LGBT employees... but that doesn't stop people in the workforce from being bigots... nor is it a reason to burn ESO to the ground.
The term bigots needs to be used more. A lot of them that have felt more empowered lately than I've ever seen. Going through transition on the job is a royal PITA- having co-workers act-a-fool and producing bigoted behavior? sad reality.... No cooperate policy can protect an employee from a bigoted manager, they'll always find a loop-hole to mess with a trans employee if they want to.
Normally I am against releasing of "private" work meetings/emails/info, but in the case of exposing bigotry and mistreatment- is 100% justified. Many people in that situation don't have many other options, and finding/affording proper council can be difficult.... Most lawyers would never want to take this sort of case on, and even LGBT law centers do practically NOTHING to help people in these situations, unless... it becomes newsworthy, which it is now. These sorts of issues happen all the time and never see the light of day.
I wish people would just chill out on trans peeps and the rest of the rainbow- life has been pretty intense lately for a lot of folk. You don't need to know their struggles- just treat people with respect, and give them the space they need to deal with their medical stuff.This discussion should be closed as it is causing lots of heated arguments on a very sensitive/controversial/personal topic.
It is upsetting everyone on both sides. I don't like seeing discussions like this as it ruins the fun and enjoyment of the forums and the games.
People here are upset, threatening to report and ban others, lots of misunderstandings, lots of personal information being shared, and trolling/baiting/attention seeking.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
Please close this. It will do everyone a favor.
Let the bigots be upset... and may as well start silencing users like they have tried to silence their employee? By ignoring this issue it only favors those that are protected from such discrimination and further illustrates a deeper problem. IMHO you're a bigot(not a slur, or derogatory term) for wanting to silence this issue. Don't want to read this thread, don't engage- no reason to try and silence others.
I'm not a bigot
I'm not taking sides. How dare you insult me, my opinions, and beliefs.
"a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group." by definition trying to shut down discussion about persecution of a group of people based on the fact you don't like it? I mean.... okay.
Again, re-emphasize, bigot is not a slur term, and in this case(and with a lot of replies in this thread) people are displaying bigoted behavior whether they label it as such or not. This is not a direct response to your post, nor was I trying to call the kettle black.
IStop calling me that word. Like I said I'm not taking sides on this issue. Why can't you understand my post. This discussion is annoying. I have no purpose here in this discussion anymore.
I'm sorry you assume people are bigots based on their beliefs. Everyone has the own opinions, values, standards, life style, and beliefs. Live and let live.
To re-iterate, I'm not calling you a bigot. I am saying that trying to silence the discussion on this issue is bigoted behavior. There is a difference.6 -
TybaltKaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't have a dog in this fight. I also don't really care to wade into this.
I think people want this closed because it is one sided and full of half information.
It's very reactive and baity, and people are getting worked up over it.
Let the courts decide the outcome, and leave the forums to things that are actually in the game, vs things outside the scope of the game.
Are we free to discuss genocides, rapes, and murders with no reaction from the mods on the forum as well, because those things are also in the game?
This topic is a hot button issue and allowing it to remain open only fosters hostility in the forums and not actual discussion. Just look at the thread, it's attacks and back and forths. Nothing is actually being discussed, and when it is, it is shouted down because some other part of the post doesn't match someone else's opinion.
We are all supposed to be adults here, but we aren't behaving like it at all, and leaving this open will only continue to illustrate that point.
This discussion should be had, but this isn't the place for it.
Go to reddit or discord or social media and engage in discourse about it, not here where people come to talk about the game and not the politics surrounding the game and the studio.
I think that is all people are asking. Framing everyone who asks that as a bigot or close minded is dishonest at best and willingly inflammatory at worst.
EDIT: The idea that there would be an official response from Zenimax on this thread is also rather short sighted. That won't happen, likely because it can't. The people who post on these forums aren't the people who make hiring and firing decisions. This is like getting mad at the social media manager of a fast food over something that happened in the board room.
The people who should respond to this likely can't for a variety of reasons, one of which is that this is a forum to talk about the game itselfEdited by TybaltKaine on July 18, 2023 6:15PM- Tybalt Kaine Khajiit Nightblade Aldmeri Dominion
- PC/NA
- Guildmaster- Lucky Raven
- Knight of Marrow - Blackfeather Academy
- Adepti- The Witches Goblet
- "Nightblade healer huh? How does that work?"
- "I drain the blood of our enemies and fire it into you. It's a lot less messy than it sounds, and yeah I'm basically a Vampire without the whole AGH FIRE BAD"
25 -
bantamguar✭✭✭If other threads are consistently shut down for revolving around real-life issues or handling of legal issues, the same should apply to this one. Unless you believe it is somehow more important or special than other issues.
Do you speak up when other threads are closed?
To think that ZOS should respond about on this forum is asinine.
On top of that, we only have one side of the story yet people are so quick to take the word of who they only see as a faultless victim.13 -
Saint-Ange✭✭✭
Don't worry about us, we're not sensitives as your lot, we've grown armor and are seasoned warriors.Narvuntien wrote: »If it is because some people have some kind of filters set up on their social for distressing things, should I put content warnings?
So basicaly you want Zenimax to bend the knee and then you guys will stop all threats?Narvuntien wrote: »I think ZoS should comment, even if that comment is, "This is an active legal situation and we cannot comment on it." I want to know that ZoS understands that poor HR management around Trans people and Trans healthcare is a serious issue.
Then why did you say the employee has been fired in your title while the truth is he resigned?Narvuntien wrote: »I will be clear I have not decided they are "guilty"
16 -
fall0athboy✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Is there a different source of this news? I don't want to give her views but am interested in what's happening. If that's true, shame on them, but I haven't heard anything about it. Anyway, these are two different studios and two different games. This game works independently from that studio and receives consultation from it about what they are or aren't allowed to do with TES to keep things lore accurate. So, you'd be better off discussing this on the Starfall subreddit, if it has one.
The woman in question didn't work on Starfield - she worked on ESO. Steph is using Starfield as a framing device to highlight the ways in which corporations use marketing hype to diminish stories like these.
I mean, the game was going to come out eventually, fired employee or not. I don't think you can really say the corporation is using marketing hype to diminish this story; the marketing hype was going on well before this, during, and after it.7 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BlindingBright wrote: »"a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group."
So basically, if you're not in my group (whichever group that may be), and you don't agree with my group, then you're a bigot.
As long as more than one group exists, then at least two groups will be bigots.
And who gets to decide which group is "unreasonably attached to a belief"? Bigot group A, or Bigot group B? Or perhaps Bigot group C?
To quote the words of Stephen Stills: "Nobody's right, if everybody's wrong."28 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BlindingBright wrote: »BlindingBright wrote: »BlindingBright wrote: »It's pretty common for companies to project an air of "Acceptance" and "Support" of LGBT workers- but then to just completely muck up ACTUALLY being an ally.
No amount of trainings or seminars will help... if anything those trainings & seminars teach the true bigots how to keep being bigots AND keep their job. And with the way things are now, the company can 100% have a policy, and even "programs" designed for LGBT employees... but that doesn't stop people in the workforce from being bigots... nor is it a reason to burn ESO to the ground.
The term bigots needs to be used more. A lot of them that have felt more empowered lately than I've ever seen. Going through transition on the job is a royal PITA- having co-workers act-a-fool and producing bigoted behavior? sad reality.... No cooperate policy can protect an employee from a bigoted manager, they'll always find a loop-hole to mess with a trans employee if they want to.
Normally I am against releasing of "private" work meetings/emails/info, but in the case of exposing bigotry and mistreatment- is 100% justified. Many people in that situation don't have many other options, and finding/affording proper council can be difficult.... Most lawyers would never want to take this sort of case on, and even LGBT law centers do practically NOTHING to help people in these situations, unless... it becomes newsworthy, which it is now. These sorts of issues happen all the time and never see the light of day.
I wish people would just chill out on trans peeps and the rest of the rainbow- life has been pretty intense lately for a lot of folk. You don't need to know their struggles- just treat people with respect, and give them the space they need to deal with their medical stuff.This discussion should be closed as it is causing lots of heated arguments on a very sensitive/controversial/personal topic.
It is upsetting everyone on both sides. I don't like seeing discussions like this as it ruins the fun and enjoyment of the forums and the games.
People here are upset, threatening to report and ban others, lots of misunderstandings, lots of personal information being shared, and trolling/baiting/attention seeking.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
Please close this. It will do everyone a favor.
Let the bigots be upset... and may as well start silencing users like they have tried to silence their employee? By ignoring this issue it only favors those that are protected from such discrimination and further illustrates a deeper problem. IMHO you're a bigot(not a slur, or derogatory term) for wanting to silence this issue. Don't want to read this thread, don't engage- no reason to try and silence others.
I'm not a bigot
I'm not taking sides. How dare you insult me, my opinions, and beliefs.
"a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group." by definition trying to shut down discussion about persecution of a group of people based on the fact you don't like it? I mean.... okay.
Again, re-emphasize, bigot is not a slur term, and in this case(and with a lot of replies in this thread) people are displaying bigoted behavior whether they label it as such or not. This is not a direct response to your post, nor was I trying to call the kettle black.
IStop calling me that word. Like I said I'm not taking sides on this issue. Why can't you understand my post. This discussion is annoying. I have no purpose here in this discussion anymore.
I'm sorry you assume people are bigots based on their beliefs. Everyone has the own opinions, values, standards, life style, and beliefs. Live and let live.
To re-iterate, I'm not calling you a bigot. I am saying that trying to silence the discussion on this issue is bigoted behavior. There is a difference.
But it‘s not. It‘s an official gaming forum. This issue doesn’t belong here and is of no interest here. Saying that is neither ignorant, nor is it transphobic or makes me a bigot. I honestly don’t care about this at all, all I’m caring about in this forum is ESO. That’s the reason why this topic doesn’t belong here and that‘s the only reason that matters.Edited by Seraphayel on July 18, 2023 6:56PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -25 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »BlindingBright wrote: »BlindingBright wrote: »BlindingBright wrote: »It's pretty common for companies to project an air of "Acceptance" and "Support" of LGBT workers- but then to just completely muck up ACTUALLY being an ally.
No amount of trainings or seminars will help... if anything those trainings & seminars teach the true bigots how to keep being bigots AND keep their job. And with the way things are now, the company can 100% have a policy, and even "programs" designed for LGBT employees... but that doesn't stop people in the workforce from being bigots... nor is it a reason to burn ESO to the ground.
The term bigots needs to be used more. A lot of them that have felt more empowered lately than I've ever seen. Going through transition on the job is a royal PITA- having co-workers act-a-fool and producing bigoted behavior? sad reality.... No cooperate policy can protect an employee from a bigoted manager, they'll always find a loop-hole to mess with a trans employee if they want to.
Normally I am against releasing of "private" work meetings/emails/info, but in the case of exposing bigotry and mistreatment- is 100% justified. Many people in that situation don't have many other options, and finding/affording proper council can be difficult.... Most lawyers would never want to take this sort of case on, and even LGBT law centers do practically NOTHING to help people in these situations, unless... it becomes newsworthy, which it is now. These sorts of issues happen all the time and never see the light of day.
I wish people would just chill out on trans peeps and the rest of the rainbow- life has been pretty intense lately for a lot of folk. You don't need to know their struggles- just treat people with respect, and give them the space they need to deal with their medical stuff.This discussion should be closed as it is causing lots of heated arguments on a very sensitive/controversial/personal topic.
It is upsetting everyone on both sides. I don't like seeing discussions like this as it ruins the fun and enjoyment of the forums and the games.
People here are upset, threatening to report and ban others, lots of misunderstandings, lots of personal information being shared, and trolling/baiting/attention seeking.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
Please close this. It will do everyone a favor.
Let the bigots be upset... and may as well start silencing users like they have tried to silence their employee? By ignoring this issue it only favors those that are protected from such discrimination and further illustrates a deeper problem. IMHO you're a bigot(not a slur, or derogatory term) for wanting to silence this issue. Don't want to read this thread, don't engage- no reason to try and silence others.
I'm not a bigot
I'm not taking sides. How dare you insult me, my opinions, and beliefs.
"a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group." by definition trying to shut down discussion about persecution of a group of people based on the fact you don't like it? I mean.... okay.
Again, re-emphasize, bigot is not a slur term, and in this case(and with a lot of replies in this thread) people are displaying bigoted behavior whether they label it as such or not. This is not a direct response to your post, nor was I trying to call the kettle black.
IStop calling me that word. Like I said I'm not taking sides on this issue. Why can't you understand my post. This discussion is annoying. I have no purpose here in this discussion anymore.
I'm sorry you assume people are bigots based on their beliefs. Everyone has the own opinions, values, standards, life style, and beliefs. Live and let live.
To re-iterate, I'm not calling you a bigot. I am saying that trying to silence the discussion on this issue is bigoted behavior. There is a difference.
But it‘s not. It‘s an official gaming forum. This issue doesn’t belong here and is of no interest here. Saying that is neither ignorant, nor is it transphobic or makes me a bigot. I honestly don’t care about this at all, all I’m caring about in this forum is ESO. That’s the reason why this topic doesn’t belong here and that‘s the only reason that matters.
Just out of curiosity, would it hurt you to ignore the thread, and let others debate if they wish? Why is it necessary to close the thread? Why do you need to impose your ideas of what the forum should contain on others?
ZoS could have closed this down on the first page. Doesn't the fact that they haven't indicate that some might feel that the discussion does belong here?11 -
tyrobia✭✭✭✭BlindingBright wrote: »"a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group."
So basically, if you're not in my group (whichever group that may be), and you don't agree with my group, then you're a bigot.
As long as more than one group exists, then at least two groups will be bigots.
And who gets to decide which group is "unreasonably attached to a belief"? Bigot group A, or Bigot group B? Or perhaps Bigot group C?
To quote the words of Stephen Stills: "Nobody's right, if everybody's wrong."
Transgender people's right to exist is not a matter of opinion and is not up for debate.21 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »BlindingBright wrote: »BlindingBright wrote: »BlindingBright wrote: »It's pretty common for companies to project an air of "Acceptance" and "Support" of LGBT workers- but then to just completely muck up ACTUALLY being an ally.
No amount of trainings or seminars will help... if anything those trainings & seminars teach the true bigots how to keep being bigots AND keep their job. And with the way things are now, the company can 100% have a policy, and even "programs" designed for LGBT employees... but that doesn't stop people in the workforce from being bigots... nor is it a reason to burn ESO to the ground.
The term bigots needs to be used more. A lot of them that have felt more empowered lately than I've ever seen. Going through transition on the job is a royal PITA- having co-workers act-a-fool and producing bigoted behavior? sad reality.... No cooperate policy can protect an employee from a bigoted manager, they'll always find a loop-hole to mess with a trans employee if they want to.
Normally I am against releasing of "private" work meetings/emails/info, but in the case of exposing bigotry and mistreatment- is 100% justified. Many people in that situation don't have many other options, and finding/affording proper council can be difficult.... Most lawyers would never want to take this sort of case on, and even LGBT law centers do practically NOTHING to help people in these situations, unless... it becomes newsworthy, which it is now. These sorts of issues happen all the time and never see the light of day.
I wish people would just chill out on trans peeps and the rest of the rainbow- life has been pretty intense lately for a lot of folk. You don't need to know their struggles- just treat people with respect, and give them the space they need to deal with their medical stuff.This discussion should be closed as it is causing lots of heated arguments on a very sensitive/controversial/personal topic.
It is upsetting everyone on both sides. I don't like seeing discussions like this as it ruins the fun and enjoyment of the forums and the games.
People here are upset, threatening to report and ban others, lots of misunderstandings, lots of personal information being shared, and trolling/baiting/attention seeking.
@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Kevin
Please close this. It will do everyone a favor.
Let the bigots be upset... and may as well start silencing users like they have tried to silence their employee? By ignoring this issue it only favors those that are protected from such discrimination and further illustrates a deeper problem. IMHO you're a bigot(not a slur, or derogatory term) for wanting to silence this issue. Don't want to read this thread, don't engage- no reason to try and silence others.
I'm not a bigot
I'm not taking sides. How dare you insult me, my opinions, and beliefs.
"a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group." by definition trying to shut down discussion about persecution of a group of people based on the fact you don't like it? I mean.... okay.
Again, re-emphasize, bigot is not a slur term, and in this case(and with a lot of replies in this thread) people are displaying bigoted behavior whether they label it as such or not. This is not a direct response to your post, nor was I trying to call the kettle black.
IStop calling me that word. Like I said I'm not taking sides on this issue. Why can't you understand my post. This discussion is annoying. I have no purpose here in this discussion anymore.
I'm sorry you assume people are bigots based on their beliefs. Everyone has the own opinions, values, standards, life style, and beliefs. Live and let live.
To re-iterate, I'm not calling you a bigot. I am saying that trying to silence the discussion on this issue is bigoted behavior. There is a difference.
But it‘s not. It‘s an official gaming forum. This issue doesn’t belong here and is of no interest here. Saying that is neither ignorant, nor is it transphobic or makes me a bigot. I honestly don’t care about this at all, all I’m caring about in this forum is ESO. That’s the reason why this topic doesn’t belong here and that‘s the only reason that matters.
Just out of curiosity, would it hurt you to ignore the thread, and let others debate if they wish? Why is it necessary to close the thread? Why do you need to impose your ideas of what the forum should contain on others?
ZoS could have closed this down on the first page. Doesn't the fact that they haven't indicate that some might feel that the discussion does belong here?
Yes, as it‘s still a political discussion in a forum about a game. These topics don’t belong here, they create disdain and hatred and are filled with toxic and insulting responses from all posters involved. If you wanna discuss political issues go to social media or whatever, those places are already toxic enough.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -17
This discussion has been closed.