So does Zenimax Studios have an explanation for this situation involving a Trans employee ?

Narvuntien · July 2023

There are claims that a Trans Member of staff was fired, among other things, for being trans, at least taking medical leave for surgeries. From a company and a game that takes pride in being inclusive, this is very disappointing.

Apperently it was on Reddit for a week but I didn't notice it

Jim Stephanie Sterling's video brought it to my attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko8khiV3C4Y

tyrobia · July 2023

No. But Thank God for Stephanie Sterling for not allowing this to be swept under the rug.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

Do you think that perhaps the reason they were fired encouraged to resign had nothing to do with their transition?

Dr_Con · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Do you think that perhaps the reason they were fired had nothing to do with their transition?

I for one think it's incredibly brave of someone to tell their boss they won't be working 4 hours of an 8 hour shift multiple times and to secretly record conversations with their manager about it, then post it online.

tyrobia · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Do you think that perhaps the reason they were fired had nothing to do with their transition?

Watch the video before you ask questions like this, dude.

spartaxoxo · July 2023

Is there a different source of this news? I don't want to give her views but am interested in what's happening. If that's true, shame on them, but I haven't heard anything about it. Anyway, these are two different studios and two different games. This game works independently from that studio and receives consultation from it about what they are or aren't allowed to do with TES to keep things lore accurate. So, you'd be better off discussing this on the Starfall subreddit, if it has one.

spartaxoxo · July 2023

Dr_Con wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Do you think that perhaps the reason they were fired had nothing to do with their transition?

I for one think it's incredibly brave of someone to tell their boss they won't be working 4 hours of an 8 hour shift multiple times and to secretly record conversations with their manager about it, then post it online.

Getting proof of claims is generally a good idea.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

Tyrobius wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Do you think that perhaps the reason they were fired had nothing to do with their transition?

Watch the video before you ask questions like this, dude.

As a paying employer, it is well within your right to want employees that aren’t constantly creating their own schedule due to an elective surgery, or process.

Which doubles back to the point I was making.

The reason they were fired encouraged to resign had nothing to do with their transition, and everything to do with how their work ethic was being impacted.

tyrobia · July 2023

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Is there a different source of this news? I don't want to give her views but am interested in what's happening. If that's true, shame on them, but I haven't heard anything about it. Anyway, these are two different studios and two different games. This game works independently from that studio and receives consultation from it about what they are or aren't allowed to do with TES to keep things lore accurate. So, you'd be better off discussing this on the Starfall subreddit, if it has one.

The woman in question didn't work on Starfield - she worked on ESO. Steph is using Starfield as a framing device to highlight the ways in which corporations use marketing hype to diminish stories like these.

tyrobia · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Tyrobius wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Do you think that perhaps the reason they were fired had nothing to do with their transition?

Watch the video before you ask questions like this, dude.

As a paying employer, it is well within your right to want employees that aren’t constantly creating their own schedule due to an elective surgery, or process.

Which doubles back to the point I was making.

The reason they were fired had nothing to do with their transition, and everything to do with how their work ethic was being impacted.

Gender affirming care is not elective.

Shagreth · July 2023

How is this even remotely related to Zenimax? Also, that Jim fellow is one nasty individual, for many reasons, so I'm saving the click.

Soarora · July 2023

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Is there a different source of this news? I don't want to give her views but am interested in what's happening.

Nefas made a video if you want to watch that one.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

Tyrobius wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Tyrobius wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Do you think that perhaps the reason they were fired had nothing to do with their transition?

Watch the video before you ask questions like this, dude.

As a paying employer, it is well within your right to want employees that aren’t constantly creating their own schedule due to an elective surgery, or process.

Which doubles back to the point I was making.

The reason they were fired had nothing to do with their transition, and everything to do with how their work ethic was being impacted.

Gender affirming care is not elective.

Yeah, good luck finding an insurance that will pay for your surgeries.

Cazador · July 2023

Shagreth wrote: »

How is this even remotely related to Zenimax? Also, that Jim fellow is one nasty individual, for many reasons, so I'm saving the click.

The subject of the video is a former Zenimax online employee

Shagreth · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Yeah, good luck finding an insurance that will pay for your surgeries.

You're bringing too much common sense in here, be careful.

Anyway, I also don't think this has anything to do with the person's gender(s) and/or transition.

laniakea_0 · July 2023

Cazador wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

How is this even remotely related to Zenimax? Also, that Jim fellow is one nasty individual, for many reasons, so I'm saving the click.

The subject of the video is a former Zenimax online employee

what do you mean? I won't spend time watching that video but it seems to me like this was about someone working on Starfield. Starfield is being developed by Bethesda Game Studios, not Zenimax Online Studios. sure, they are sister companies under Bethesda Softworks and now also Microsoft Xbox, but why would that have any impact of hiring within any one studio?

laniakea_0 · July 2023

Tyrobius wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Tyrobius wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Do you think that perhaps the reason they were fired had nothing to do with their transition?

Watch the video before you ask questions like this, dude.

As a paying employer, it is well within your right to want employees that aren’t constantly creating their own schedule due to an elective surgery, or process.

Which doubles back to the point I was making.

The reason they were fired had nothing to do with their transition, and everything to do with how their work ethic was being impacted.

Gender affirming care is not elective.

Oh, is it? As far as I know surgery isn't your only option. you can also seek out the help of a psychiatrist if you're struggling with your sex. but if you want to pursue a time intensive path like this series of surgeries, you should probably take indefinite leave first.

Cazador · July 2023

laniakea_0 wrote: »

Cazador wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

How is this even remotely related to Zenimax? Also, that Jim fellow is one nasty individual, for many reasons, so I'm saving the click.

The subject of the video is a former Zenimax online employee

what do you mean? I won't spend time watching that video but it seems to me like this was about someone working on Starfield. Starfield is being developed by Bethesda Game Studios, not Zenimax Online Studios. sure, they are sister companies under Bethesda Softworks and now also Microsoft Xbox, but why would that have any impact of hiring within any one studio?

I'd read @Tyrobius comment from earlier. They explain it better than I can and if you aren't intrested in steph's video nefas made one about it as well. Starfield isn't really involved here.

Toanis · July 2023

As a european, I thought treatment-related job loss is pretty common in the US?

Just how it is, when it's because of chemotherapy or dialysis, right?

Lazarus_Rising · July 2023

It is forbidden to make secret recordings during work. That alone deserved a termination of the employment.

EmEm_Oh · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Yeah, good luck finding an insurance that will pay for your surgeries.

https://transhealthproject.org/resources/health-insurance-medical-policies/views/#:~:text=Virtually all major insurance companies,they administer will cover it

Have to be somewhat knowledgeable when choosing insurance policies. Just like any surgery. You don't have to be only Trans to discover that some surgeries are challenging to accomplish. Millions of people every single year are told by their insurance companies their surgeries aren't covered for one reason or another.

DUTCH_REAPER · July 2023

Holy crap I come to the forums and this is what I see??? Ever thought maybe just MAYBE they were fired because they deserved to be fired and it had nothing to do with their personal life choices????

thedoodle_90 · July 2023

I can't watch the video my adhd won't let me. The way she put the conversation between game hype ads is annoying and jarring. From what I could try to hear it sounds like this person is being denied FMLA for a medical procedure and being fired for needing FMLA. Firing someone for an FMLA request is a lawsuit.

Katheriah · July 2023

It's the US, right? Surely if it's truely about the transition, they can sue. I did understand that employees are not that well protected in the US, regarding medical stuff and other things?

Aislinna · July 2023

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

I can't watch the video my adhd won't let me. The way she put the conversation between game hype ads is annoying and jarring. From what I could try to hear it sounds like this person is being denied FMLA for a medical procedure and being fired for needing FMLA. Firing someone for an FMLA request is a lawsuit.

The original 4 hour video from the former employee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kglNioOuK8&t=13824s

Lumenn · July 2023

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

I can't watch the video my adhd won't let me. The way she put the conversation between game hype ads is annoying and jarring. From what I could try to hear it sounds like this person is being denied FMLA for a medical procedure and being fired for needing FMLA. Firing someone for an FMLA request is a lawsuit.

Does FMLA cover gender reassignment? Did this person actually DO the correct paperwork for FMLA if it does cover it? That's what I hate about these type of vids. It's always one sided and too many questions. If this person has a case, take it to court, they didn't sign the agreement. If they don't, then it's propaganda and zos, a company as far as I know has always been inclusive, should sue for slander at the least. Either way it belongs in court first and THEN possibly social media. Just my opinion.

Cazador · July 2023

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

I can't watch the video my adhd won't let me. The way she put the conversation between game hype ads is annoying and jarring. From what I could try to hear it sounds like this person is being denied FMLA for a medical procedure and being fired for needing FMLA. Firing someone for an FMLA request is a lawsuit.

Agreed. I normally like their videos but it was jarring. When it finally does focus on the employee's situation though it was pretty grim.

carly · July 2023

Expecting ZOS to comment publicly on a former employees situation is a bit unrealistic, that might land them in legal trouble.
If someone feels their rights have been violated, the best course of action would be to seek legal counsel and deal with it that way.

spartaxoxo · July 2023

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

I can't watch the video my adhd won't let me. The way she put the conversation between game hype ads is annoying and jarring. From what I could try to hear it sounds like this person is being denied FMLA for a medical procedure and being fired for needing FMLA. Firing someone for an FMLA request is a lawsuit.

It's currently unclear legally whether or not FMLA covers this surgery.

On the one hand, It's deemed medically necessary by the health community in general and transgender discrimination in employment is illegal.

On the other hand, some employers feel like it's just elective and it's their freedom to control employees lives and fire them for cosmetic procedures, even when it has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of work the employee performs.

It has not been fully tested in court which way this would fall.

SeaGtGruff · July 2023

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Is there a different source of this news? I don't want to give her views but am interested in what's happening. If that's true, shame on them, but I haven't heard anything about it. Anyway, these are two different studios and two different games. This game works independently from that studio and receives consultation from it about what they are or aren't allowed to do with TES to keep things lore accurate. So, you'd be better off discussing this on the Starfall subreddit, if it has one.

Yes. I imagine this thread will probably get locked, if not outright deleted, given that it has nothing to do with ZOS and ESO. But I personally think locking would be better than deleting, as deleting would just needlessly fuel conspiracy theorists.

EmEm_Oh · July 2023

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

I can't watch the video my adhd won't let me. The way she put the conversation between game hype ads is annoying and jarring. From what I could try to hear it sounds like this person is being denied FMLA for a medical procedure and being fired for needing FMLA. Firing someone for an FMLA request is a lawsuit.

I agree. Trying to get a sense of what happened is rather confusing, due to the ads and snippets of conversation told in a way I have a difficult time understanding. There's no way to determine confidently what actually happened, but what I do know, is FMLA is often challenging, and many companies don't make it easy to get it. Most often, the HR departments don't know the laws like they should. However, at the same time, I've seen companies bend over backwards and even skirt around the FMLA laws to help out an employee who legitimately needs to take care of somebody or themselves.

Basically, I don't think we know how much leave was requested (12wks is max for FMLA), was it all used up before the request or not enough to cover the requested FMLA , etc. Was this a "serious health condition" as per FMLA guidelines, etc.

So many are denied FMLA who justly, in my opinion, should have it...but FMLA won't cover it because the "condition" was not serious enough.

Again, I'm not sure this was a targeted attack. I've experienced my fellow employees complain about FMLA denials on a regular basis. All types of people, from diverse races, denied because the FMLA didn't meet the requirements. At that point, it's generally a legal battle and whether the company wants to fight it.