Next on the nerf chopping block: The Sorcerer

Morbus2 · May 2014

They nerfed the vampires and didn't fix a single thing in the passive skill tree because of a few people complaining about pvp, so they ruined it for pve.

They next class that people complain about being OP is the sorcerer. Get ready sorc's, the nerf hammer is coming.

And after that, guess what? They're coming for you.

EDIT: I thought I should add this . .

Rock says "nerf paper", paper says "heck no! nerf scissors!", scissors says "are u kidding? nerf rock, he's OP!"

. . . and the cycle begins . . .

Jade1986 · May 2014

They should ACTUALLY balance the game. We have extremely weak weapon skill lines, and ridiculously overpowered class skill lines. Then there are the guild skill lines that take SO long to level that its painful and flat out ridiculous.

Morbus2 · May 2014

laced wrote: »

They should ACTUALLY balance the game. We have extremely weak weapon skill lines, and ridiculously overpowered class skill lines. Then there are the guild skill lines that take SO long to level that its painful and flat out ridiculous.

You see . . ."balance the game" . . . so it begins . .

jimdove · May 2014

great, im a vamp sorc.

Morbus2 · May 2014

jimdove wrote: »

great, im a vamp sorc.

man are you in trouble!

Dominulf · May 2014

Balance is bad. Being able to kill 30 people as a Vampire is OK. Learn 2 Play.

Sorcs being able to engage and disengage any combat situation with bolt escape in a game that doesn't let you mount while in combat or offer other such movement abilities is totally fine.

I for one really enjoy playing Diablo 2 again with Sorcs TP'ing everywhere during mid combat.

Abigail · May 2014

Nice stealth whine, btw. Fear monger much?

Phantax · May 2014

jimdove wrote: »

great, im a vamp sorc.

You are seriously screwed !
(could be slightly worse... you could be a werewolf sorc) So I'm seriously screwed++

Morbus2 · May 2014

Abigail wrote: »

Nice stealth whine, btw. Fear monger much?

Just calling it like I see it.

ErilAq · May 2014

The main difference between sorcerer and a vamp is that there is no Vampire class. it's a skill line. A single skill line being better than an entire classes set of skill lines (NB and Templar) is detrimental to gameplay. Sorcerers may get nerfed, DK's may get nerfed, or maybe templars and NB's will get buffed. What people need to realize is Vampire does not equal Sorc, DK, Templar, or NB. Vampire=mages guild, or fighters guild, WW, or Undaunted.

please do not compare apples to oranges.

edit: aparently the does not equal sign translates to =/=

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO · May 2014

Don't dismiss vampirism as a skill line just because that's how they pictured it, vampirism is a buff and a debuff wich normaly makes a character stronguer and weaker in several level (I invite you to play skyrim or oblivion to see the change impact for yourself on a character). People choosing to become vampire should as a result become stronger then non vampire in their own rights however they pay for it dearly with the fire weakness and likely soon to be the guard attack on stage four. They have all the right to be awarded a set of unique powerfull spell wich makes class ability look like toys. Class are just archtype they aren't as important as you pretend them to be. A character can actualy run without a single class spell if he choose to and shouldn't be penalised for doing so!

Vampirism and lycantropy is above what class provide by default.

redwoodtreesprite · May 2014

LOL, isn't it always like this in every MMO? So and so class is OP! NERF IT!!!
Endlessly.

Thing is, you don't even have to ask. It is the nature of MMO devs to continuously "improve" classes. They can't help it. Gives em something to do I guess.

Morbus2 · May 2014

ErilAq wrote: »

The main difference between sorcerer and a vamp is that there is no Vampire class. it's a skill line. A single skill line being better than an entire classes set of skill lines (NB and Templar) is detrimental to gameplay. Sorcerers may get nerfed, DK's may get nerfed, or maybe templars and NB's will get buffed. What people need to realize is Vampire does not equal Sorc, DK, Templar, or NB. Vampire=mages guild, or fighters guild, WW, or Undaunted.

please do not compare apples to oranges.

edit: aparently the does not equal sign translates to =/=

I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make.

Rock says "nerf paper", paper says "heck no! nerf scissors!", scissors says "are u kidding? nerf rock, he's OP!"

You see where I'm going with this?

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO · May 2014

Vampirism and lycantropy are actualy as important a skilline as your class skills are. To pretend one needs to absolutely use class skill in his build is as absurd as saying build are limited to running sword/shield and nothing else. All skill line of equal importance the class only exist so to determine your 3 first skill line it doesn't mean they are mendatory.

There is no vampire class?? Think again... vampire is a class and a gimmick upon wich one may build up around in its own right the same as weapon skills and class line.

All those player who built vampire didn't built around their class they built it around vampirism. Or at least the majority did it with vampirism or vampiric character in mind.

ErilAq · May 2014

If you're talking about oblivion, vampires get severe penalties in the sunlight, as they do in skyrim, which they don't in eso. also, there were no "classes" in oblivion or skyrim, as you could pick a skill line and run with whatever you wanted.

In ESO, however, there are classes, which are meant to fulfill a main function (sorc is ranged, nb is stealth, dk is tank, and templar is healer) and while ESO gives you options to break out of that mold, a templar healer will forever be > then a sorc healer. Vampirism and Lycanthropy follow the same idea as fighters or mages guild, in that they enhance the classes flavor, but are not supposed to overshadow the classes.
again, do not compare apples to oranges. Skyrim does not equal ESO.

Devlinne · May 2014

Sad to say. I seen it in so many mmos. I bet you have too. Once the nerfing starts. It's over. You see, cos there will ALWAYS be something better, always SOMETHING "needing" a ner...or too OP. I miss korean mmos. The devs there are very straightforward. "This is how the game is made, this is how it will be till the end" whther the community posted videos of themselve slashing their own wrists in protest...in made no difference. NOTHING swayed the devs. You know what happened? Ppl who didn't like it left. Thus formed a solid playerbase that loved the game for what it is, and the forums were free of crying, cos they all knew...crying didn't matter cos noone cared.

Now this game is following another games path. Lets call this other game NWO. That game also had ppl crying to nerf a class. so it got nerfed. Then after nerfing that class, ppl cried for another class to be nerfed, cos now that A had been nerfed. noone could match up to B. So B took a hit....OH SNAP! Now C seems to shine bright...OH NO... Well. by the time the devs realised...you cannot please everyone....and they tried (too late) to re-buff the classes....Game became BARREN. Thats all she wrote.

Ya'll seen it happen, Ya'll KNOW it's true.
Just sad it' happening here. I really like this game:(

You see. it will never end. Cos ppl LOVE their rights. "Hey! u listened to them when they screamed for a nerf to this right?...Now why aren't u listening to my screeeeammmm???"

It will never end. I'm just gonna enjoy the ride while it lasts:( genuinely very sad.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO · May 2014

Class are meaningless they are as important to the game as your choice of runestone

You can build yourself up without any class ability and as such vamp, ww hold as much of an importance in a build as your class do.

Class are an OPTION and remains an OPTION just as vampirism is. There is no option more important then the others. Vampirism was given a strong skill line because of the weakness behing a vampire also provide.

ChairGraveyard · May 2014

redwoodtreesprite wrote: »

LOL, isn't it always like this in every MMO? So and so class is OP! NERF IT!!!
Endlessly.

Thing is, you don't even have to ask. It is the nature of MMO devs to continuously "improve" classes. They can't help it. Gives em something to do I guess.

Yep, and it results in all the nice, fun to use abilities being turned into watered down crap (not talking about Bat Swarm either, which btw isn't truly fixed until ultimate cost reduction is fixed).

I guess it's because most MMO players truly desire all skills to be identical and for fights to be 20-minute long boring slugfests with each player trading hyper low damage blows, standing stock still in one spot.

Endolith · May 2014

redwoodtreesprite wrote: »

LOL, isn't it always like this in every MMO? So and so class is OP! NERF IT!!!
Endlessly.

Thing is, you don't even have to ask. It is the nature of MMO devs to continuously "improve" classes. They can't help it. Gives em something to do I guess.

The devs are no doubt evaluating things on their own, as much as people like to say they're just listening to forums. They make changes. Sometimes the right call, sometimes not. There's really no difference between people whining in favor of the nerfs and the people who whine about then afterward.

Morbus2 · May 2014

Devlinne wrote: »

Sad to say. I seen it in so many mmos. I bet you have too. Once the nerfing starts. It's over. You see, cos there will ALWAYS be something better, always SOMETHING "needing" a ner...or too OP. I miss korean mmos. The devs there are very straightforward. "This is how the game is made, this is how it will be till the end" whther the community posted videos of themselve slashing their own wrists in protest...in made no difference. NOTHING swayed the devs. You know what happened? Ppl who didn't like it left. Thus formed a solid playerbase that loved the game for what it is, and the forums were free of crying, cos they all knew...crying didn't matter cos noone cared.

Now this game is following another games path. Lets call this other game NWO. That game also had ppl crying to nerf a class. so it got nerfed. Then after nerfing that class, ppl cried for another class to be nerfed, cos now that A had been nerfed. noone could match up to B. So B took a hit....OH SNAP! Now C seems to shine bright...OH NO... Well. by the time the devs realised...you cannot please everyone....and they tried (too late) to re-buff the classes....Game became BARREN. Thats all she wrote.

Ya'll seen it happen, Ya'll KNOW it's true.
Just sad it' happening here. I really like this game:(

You see. it will never end. Cos ppl LOVE their rights. "Hey! u listened to them when they screamed for a nerf to this right?...Now why aren't u listening to my screeeeammmm???"

It will never end. I'm just gonna enjoy the ride while it lasts:( genuinely very sad.

You "get" it.

ErilAq · May 2014

Let me be a bit more clear: Vampire is not a class in the game, you do not start up the game, click "create character" and then select vampire or WW. Is it important? yes. Should it be overshadowing the main classes? no. Sorcs may well be nerfed next. Or DK's. They are definitely in a better position than Templars and NB's. but alternatively, NB's could be buffed, as could templars.

Saying that Vampirism followed a rock, paper, scissor theme is also false, since Vampirism effectively countered every class at least 25 times over. (there are videos showing 1 vamp taking on 25 people) it reminds me of when young children play rock paper scissors, and you threw down a paper, only to have your friend point a finger gun at you, scream "gun!" and auto-win.

Was the vampire nerf needed? yes, it was waaay more powerful than intended. it basically made people have to change to a vamp or invest in flame staff+fighters guild+whatever fire ability you can scrounge up to have a hope. Now, if you are saying the vamp nerf was a bit too harsh, or poorly done, then I could agree with you.

as Vampirism is not equal to a main class, saying that because vamps got nerfed sorcerers are next is not logical. Could it happen? yes. Will it? probably. It does not need to be nerfed because vampirism was nerfed however, two separate issues.

ChairGraveyard · May 2014

Devlinne wrote: »

Sad to say. I seen it in so many mmos. I bet you have too. Once the nerfing starts. It's over. You see, cos there will ALWAYS be something better, always SOMETHING "needing" a ner...or too OP. I miss korean mmos. The devs there are very straightforward. "This is how the game is made, this is how it will be till the end" whther the community posted videos of themselve slashing their own wrists in protest...in made no difference. NOTHING swayed the devs. You know what happened? Ppl who didn't like it left. Thus formed a solid playerbase that loved the game for what it is, and the forums were free of crying, cos they all knew...crying didn't matter cos noone cared.

Now this game is following another games path. Lets call this other game NWO. That game also had ppl crying to nerf a class. so it got nerfed. Then after nerfing that class, ppl cried for another class to be nerfed, cos now that A had been nerfed. noone could match up to B. So B took a hit....OH SNAP! Now C seems to shine bright...OH NO... Well. by the time the devs realised...you cannot please everyone....and they tried (too late) to re-buff the classes....Game became BARREN. Thats all she wrote.

Ya'll seen it happen, Ya'll KNOW it's true.
Just sad it' happening here. I really like this game:(

You see. it will never end. Cos ppl LOVE their rights. "Hey! u listened to them when they screamed for a nerf to this right?...Now why aren't u listening to my screeeeammmm???"

It will never end. I'm just gonna enjoy the ride while it lasts:( genuinely very sad.

Yep, this is the inevitable result of overzealous heavy-handed nerfing. A game full of boring, weak skills that aren't fun to use, and an empty playing field.

Not to say certain things that are obviously broken don't need fixing (Bat Swarm stacking/super ult reduction), but there are good fixes and bad ones, and currently the methods they are using are not good at all... They are fixing symptoms, not the underlying problem.

Malediktus · May 2014

laced wrote: »

They should ACTUALLY balance the game. We have extremely weak weapon skill lines, and ridiculously overpowered class skill lines. Then there are the guild skill lines that take SO long to level that its painful and flat out ridiculous.

agree on the skill balance
but not on the guild level speed, its just fine

Morbus2 · May 2014

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Devlinne wrote: »

Sad to say. I seen it in so many mmos. I bet you have too. Once the nerfing starts. It's over. You see, cos there will ALWAYS be something better, always SOMETHING "needing" a ner...or too OP. I miss korean mmos. The devs there are very straightforward. "This is how the game is made, this is how it will be till the end" whther the community posted videos of themselve slashing their own wrists in protest...in made no difference. NOTHING swayed the devs. You know what happened? Ppl who didn't like it left. Thus formed a solid playerbase that loved the game for what it is, and the forums were free of crying, cos they all knew...crying didn't matter cos noone cared.

Now this game is following another games path. Lets call this other game NWO. That game also had ppl crying to nerf a class. so it got nerfed. Then after nerfing that class, ppl cried for another class to be nerfed, cos now that A had been nerfed. noone could match up to B. So B took a hit....OH SNAP! Now C seems to shine bright...OH NO... Well. by the time the devs realised...you cannot please everyone....and they tried (too late) to re-buff the classes....Game became BARREN. Thats all she wrote.

Ya'll seen it happen, Ya'll KNOW it's true.
Just sad it' happening here. I really like this game:(

You see. it will never end. Cos ppl LOVE their rights. "Hey! u listened to them when they screamed for a nerf to this right?...Now why aren't u listening to my screeeeammmm???"

It will never end. I'm just gonna enjoy the ride while it lasts:( genuinely very sad.

Yep, this is the inevitable result of overzealous heavy-handed nerfing. A game full of boring, weak skills that aren't fun to use, and an empty playing field.

Not to say certain things that are obviously broken don't need fixing (Bat Swarm stacking/super ult reduction), but there are good fixes and bad ones, and currently the methods they are using are not good at all... They are fixing symptoms, not the underlying problem.

You sir, are making too much sense. They may close the thread for this.

Morbus2 · May 2014

ErilAq wrote: »

Let me be a bit more clear: Vampire is not a class in the game, you do not start up the game, click "create character" and then select vampire or WW. Is it important? yes. Should it be overshadowing the main classes? no. Sorcs may well be nerfed next. Or DK's. They are definitely in a better position than Templars and NB's. but alternatively, NB's could be buffed, as could templars.

Saying that Vampirism followed a rock, paper, scissor theme is also false, since Vampirism effectively countered every class at least 25 times over. (there are videos showing 1 vamp taking on 25 people) it reminds me of when young children play rock paper scissors, and you threw down a paper, only to have your friend point a finger gun at you, scream "gun!" and auto-win.

Was the vampire nerf needed? yes, it was waaay more powerful than intended. it basically made people have to change to a vamp or invest in flame staff+fighters guild+whatever fire ability you can scrounge up to have a hope. Now, if you are saying the vamp nerf was a bit too harsh, or poorly done, then I could agree with you.

as Vampirism is not equal to a main class, saying that because vamps got nerfed sorcerers are next is not logical. Could it happen? yes. Will it? probably. It does not need to be nerfed because vampirism was nerfed however, two separate issues.

Let me also be "a bit more clear" because you're still missing the point.

Look, I realize that exploitable skills and abilities need to be adjusted. No one is arguing that.

However, when you start catering to people whining about this class or that class, or this skill tree compared to that skill tree, or in your case this apple and that orange or whatever . . . under the disguise of "balancing the game", the problem is that you have now started a vicious cycle of mostly unnecessary nerfs and "fixes" that do nothing to fix the game, but have the opposite effect and further unbalance and destabilize the game, making it difficult (if not impossible) for developers and programmers to keep up with.

You can't please everyone all the time, and if you try to, then . . . well . . .down the rabbit hole we go . . .

babylon · May 2014

I thought we were complaining about DKs next.

ErilAq · May 2014

Then we are in agreement and we just didn't know it. I was arguing against senseless nerfs just because vamps got nerfed. I even admitted the vamp nerf was probably too harsh and was definitely poorly done. The first several posts of this thread made it seem as though they wanted more nerfs to offset the vamp nerf, which I am adamantly against. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I'll show myself the door :P

Roechacca · May 2014

Fixes need to be done with a scalpel not a chainsaw .

Jade1986 · May 2014

Malediktus wrote: »

laced wrote: »

They should ACTUALLY balance the game. We have extremely weak weapon skill lines, and ridiculously overpowered class skill lines. Then there are the guild skill lines that take SO long to level that its painful and flat out ridiculous.

agree on the skill balance
but not on the guild level speed, its just fine

I could deal with the guild skill lines leveling slow IF my weapon skill line actually could keep up with lets say dark magic, which 1 attack of theirs equals 3 of my melee attacks.....

Play how you want? I think not....

Sakiri · May 2014

ErilAq wrote: »

The main difference between sorcerer and a vamp is that there is no Vampire class. it's a skill line. A single skill line being better than an entire classes set of skill lines (NB and Templar) is detrimental to gameplay. Sorcerers may get nerfed, DK's may get nerfed, or maybe templars and NB's will get buffed. What people need to realize is Vampire does not equal Sorc, DK, Templar, or NB. Vampire=mages guild, or fighters guild, WW, or Undaunted.

please do not compare apples to oranges.

edit: aparently the does not equal sign translates to =/=

!=

Morbus2 · May 2014

babylon wrote: »

I thought we were complaining about DKs next.

No no, they're next after sorcerers . .