Arcanist worth buying from a pvp perspective only.

YandereGirlfriend · June 2023

Syiccal wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

So, I was completely wrong in that they seemed a little lacking in pvp viability and that they would get their damage from weapon lines.

They 100% melt players and use zero weapon skills to do it. In fact I haven't even bother leveling a backbar weapon line because its hardly needed. Its just a buff bar with a defending trait stat stick. Like one passive from a weapons skill line is even needed.

Arcanist slap so hard, that I forgot to even grab a Mundus stone until after I fully leveled and was already doing bgs.

Here are some Combat Metrics from some fights. I don't even have all my passives or goldened out gear. Still testing out sets.

What I would say though is you will have been in properly low mmr bgs so it's not really a true tell of its power

Came here to say this.

Also, did they fix the tracking on Tide King? Because that thing was REAL EASY to avoid taking from during the first few weeks of the PTS.

To be fair I'd say tide King might be better suited to pve, in pvp dawnbreaker stun into beam might work better maybe..its no different than what I do on my plar now with DB to jabs/jbeam

Agreed.

I was mainly referencing Tide King because in the above CMX it is like 50% of the person's damage and I find that to be a little bit sus considering how easy it was to completely avoid. Even if you stun beforehand I can't see anyone eating more than a small handful of ticks before they Dodge-Roll away. Which is why I sort of question the quality of opposition in the report.

taugrim · June 2023

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

So, I was completely wrong in that they seemed a little lacking in pvp viability and that they would get their damage from weapon lines.

They 100% melt players and use zero weapon skills to do it. In fact I haven't even bother leveling a backbar weapon line because its hardly needed. Its just a buff bar with a defending trait stat stick. Like one passive from a weapons skill line is even needed.

Arcanist slap so hard, that I forgot to even grab a Mundus stone until after I fully leveled and was already doing bgs.

Here are some Combat Metrics from some fights. I don't even have all my passives or goldened out gear. Still testing out sets.

What I would say though is you will have been in properly low mmr bgs so it's not really a true tell of its power

Came here to say this.

Also, did they fix the tracking on Tide King? Because that thing was REAL EASY to avoid taking from during the first few weeks of the PTS.

Tide King moves slower than players do, so it's easy to kite out of. I try to use Ceph's Flail to root during the ult.

HidesInPlainSight · June 2023

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

So, I was completely wrong in that they seemed a little lacking in pvp viability and that they would get their damage from weapon lines.

They 100% melt players and use zero weapon skills to do it. In fact I haven't even bother leveling a backbar weapon line because its hardly needed. Its just a buff bar with a defending trait stat stick. Like one passive from a weapons skill line is even needed.

Arcanist slap so hard, that I forgot to even grab a Mundus stone until after I fully leveled and was already doing bgs.

Here are some Combat Metrics from some fights. I don't even have all my passives or goldened out gear. Still testing out sets.

What I would say though is you will have been in properly low mmr bgs so it's not really a true tell of its power

Came here to say this.

Also, did they fix the tracking on Tide King? Because that thing was REAL EASY to avoid taking from during the first few weeks of the PTS.

To be fair I'd say tide King might be better suited to pve, in pvp dawnbreaker stun into beam might work better maybe..its no different than what I do on my plar now with DB to jabs/jbeam

Agreed.

I was mainly referencing Tide King because in the above CMX it is like 50% of the person's damage and I find that to be a little bit sus considering how easy it was to completely avoid. Even if you stun beforehand I can't see anyone eating more than a small handful of ticks before they Dodge-Roll away. Which is why I sort of question the quality of opposition in the report.

They are immobilized by tentacles, charmed, and / or snared by beam when I drop the ultimate. Built properly and timing Tide King correctly, you are not getting away from the beam. Hiding the animation for your CC, or dropping Tide King then CC'ing into beam ensures the most damage.

SkaraMinoc · June 2023

I'm actually having a difficult time putting together an Arcanist healer build for Battlegrounds. There's no aoe burst heal so I'd have to use Combat Prayer (gross). Arcanists have minimal HoTs and the scaling on Chakram is dreadful.

Syiccal · June 2023

Yea from what I've seen they have next to nothing when it comes to heals, rely on shield and crux to heal but no crux = no heals and even then they arnt great...I'd like to be told I'm wrong though

taugrim · June 2023

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

So, I was completely wrong in that they seemed a little lacking in pvp viability and that they would get their damage from weapon lines.

They 100% melt players and use zero weapon skills to do it. In fact I haven't even bother leveling a backbar weapon line because its hardly needed. Its just a buff bar with a defending trait stat stick. Like one passive from a weapons skill line is even needed.

Arcanist slap so hard, that I forgot to even grab a Mundus stone until after I fully leveled and was already doing bgs.

Here are some Combat Metrics from some fights. I don't even have all my passives or goldened out gear. Still testing out sets.

What I would say though is you will have been in properly low mmr bgs so it's not really a true tell of its power

Came here to say this.

Also, did they fix the tracking on Tide King? Because that thing was REAL EASY to avoid taking from during the first few weeks of the PTS.

To be fair I'd say tide King might be better suited to pve, in pvp dawnbreaker stun into beam might work better maybe..its no different than what I do on my plar now with DB to jabs/jbeam

Agreed.

I was mainly referencing Tide King because in the above CMX it is like 50% of the person's damage and I find that to be a little bit sus considering how easy it was to completely avoid. Even if you stun beforehand I can't see anyone eating more than a small handful of ticks before they Dodge-Roll away. Which is why I sort of question the quality of opposition in the report.

They are immobilized by tentacles, charmed, and / or snared by beam when I drop the ultimate. Built properly and timing Tide King correctly, you are not getting away from the beam. Hiding the animation for your CC, or dropping Tide King then CC'ing into beam ensures the most damage.

I've been using the stun that comes with Minor Breach. But the animation on the target (green pentagon around their feet) is visible.

Does the charmed morph have a visible tell?

It is hilarious to get charmed, you run towards the caster til you Break Free. Although that behavior would result in what you don't want in some situations, e.g. you're trying to create distance.

katorga · June 2023

My experience so far is that my Sorc just devours Arcanists. I assume a ranged NB would as well, probably even better than a sorc due to their higher movement speed and higher burst.

otoh, rushing keeps/buildings in Cyro, IC, battle grounds, & melee builds, the players are essentially charging into your arcanist attacks.

Ecgberht_confused · June 2023

So far I've only had success in low mmr bgs as I was levelling the new character. As soon as as I moved up I'm really struggling to kill people with the beam (also in cyrodiil). It just has so many counters. Even if you don't have problems with lag or people LoS-ing, they just cc you as you can't block or dodge while channeling. Or they can normally just outheal it. I was hoping I can get it to work, but pvp certainly prefers burstiness over strong channels.

The most success I had was with the delayed stun just before the beam. I prefer the one with fear and minor brittle rather than the charm, since I want to keep out of melee range. I might try to replace the beam altogether with the tentacular dread as a crux spender and see if that works.

So far I'm really enjoying the class in pve, but in pvp it seems really lacking.

sabresandiego_ESO · June 2023

I’ve found the class to be very good in PVP. I play mainly as an archer in battlegrounds. So far I like it

taugrim · June 2023

I'm loving my DPS Stamarc in BGs at 50 (mid-to-high MMR, PC NA). It's such a distinct playstyle and the visual & sound effects are fun.

The class kit offers a lot of flexibility. Strong shielding, plus tools to keep opponents at skirmish range (between 8-22m) where you can work in your burst sequences with CC.

I wasn't interested on leveling an Arcanist for PVP for the simple fact that 2 of the main abilities (Fatecarver and Remedy Cascade) are long channels, but I've found that I can work in those abilities. Even if I'm stunned while channeling Fatecarver, it's no big deal, just work to build up Crux and line up a good opportunity. Cascade is good at bailing out friendlies under pressure.

HidesInPlainSight · June 2023

Arcanist about to be a problem in PvP. I found a burst that lands 3-4 non-delayed skills in one GCD, just dicking around. Others will find it soon.

HidesInPlainSight · June 2023

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

So far I've only had success in low mmr bgs as I was levelling the new character. As soon as as I moved up I'm really struggling to kill people with the beam (also in cyrodiil). It just has so many counters. Even if you don't have problems with lag or people LoS-ing, they just cc you as you can't block or dodge while channeling. Or they can normally just outheal it. I was hoping I can get it to work, but pvp certainly prefers burstiness over strong channels.

The most success I had was with the delayed stun just before the beam. I prefer the one with fear and minor brittle rather than the charm, since I want to keep out of melee range. I might try to replace the beam altogether with the tentacular dread as a crux spender and see if that works.

So far I'm really enjoying the class in pve, but in pvp it seems really lacking.

Think of the Beam as more of an execute, in higher mmr. Move away from the class stuns / immobilizations, as much as I wanted to make them work, they are too telegraphed and unreliable. Other CC can be completely hidden and will land 100% of the time.

Only class offense skills Im running are Runeblades, Fatecarver, Scholrship, and King Ulti. Runeblades only for the Crux generation, and it does okayish damage, Scholarship simply as a buff and pseudo Deadly Cloak. Fatecarver as a ranged execute.

King Ulti suffers from the same issues as the Beam, with a downside of the potential to crash your client when dropping it.

Thee are some unique builds Ive ran across, but they are gimmicks, and once you learn the setup, you wont be fooled again. Some excellent Bomber builds can be done, if thats your thing 99% of Cyrodill is just going to stack Way of Fire, Vatershran Staff, Master DW, and some other procs while keeping 35 - 40k hp, and its going to be 5min 1v1 or stalemates.

The class is very limited in No Cp builds / sets, and it kind of feels like Stamsorc. Penetration set, damage set, and a recovery mythic or monster set mix. Your burst heal is magicka based, and you will be spamming that *** while you LoS, so you need quite a decent amount of magic recovery or some other sustain.

The portal movement skill is ass. Yes, please while I dodge roll evade spammables, lets please use a skill that requires you to aim it, and has collision issues with 90% of the the mesh, puts you 10 steps in front of where you were before. If enemy has fast movement speed, its like a zero gain skill usage, even if you have major expedition morph. You run into sustain issue, spamming your shield and running. Class has mobility issues, and will eventually be caught by any zerg. It does not have any reliable burst resource gain outside of a pot. While also having normal sustain issues if you are not running all class skills, but is not viable solo with only class skills. Even at 2-2.5k stam recovery, weaving heavies, and not recasting unnecessary, stam sustain is an issue in CP using fewer class skills on a no proc setup.

As much as the devs wanted to make the class not reliant on light attack weaving, in PvP, you need that light attack or heavy openers / weaves. You need that flame / poison glyph procs, you need the resource gain from heavies.

It has some really good points to the class for pvp, but eventually it is going too play a lot like a Stamsorc, with less mobility, worse resource management, and relying on weapon skill as an execute. There are few desyncs ive already found with the class, and a burst that bypasses GCD rules, that will be found out by more players naturally in the coming months.

Fun class, but devs pigeon hold the class identity, and it will be heavily reliant on procs in CP, and is going to suffer quite bit from either damage (if you slot majority class skills) or sustain (you drop some class skills for weapon / guild skills) in No CP. It will probably get the same sustain treatment that Necro eventually got.

HidesInPlainSight · June 2023

Syiccal wrote: »

Yea from what I've seen they have next to nothing when it comes to heals, rely on shield and crux to heal but no crux = no heals and even then they arnt great...I'd like to be told I'm wrong though

Generate crux, keep them up for either your shield heal, or dump them with a burst or to proc passives.

In general, don't consume your crux, until your enemy is in execute range and you are out of range of your other executes.

In CP, grab the slottable that increases your shield strength, and take morph that increase the first second of shield size. You can build it to where you are near unkillable. Sustain is an issue unless you drop damage for sustain, but if you stick to majority class skills, you wont the damage to burst and it becomes a battle of resources or a stalemate. Most of your Arcanist you will see, will be getting 95% of their damage from proc sets, because it does not have the burst.

YandereGirlfriend · June 2023

So far my biggest pain point with the class is that its sustain is, in a word, dogwater.

You definitely have to build harder into sustain than most other classes.

Honorable mention goes to portal, like the poster above already stated. You can troll and temporarily deke pursuers but it's not a viable disengagement tool or a substitute for a proper gap-closer.

katorga · June 2023

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

So far my biggest pain point with the class is that its sustain is, in a word, dogwater.

You definitely have to build harder into sustain than most other classes.

Honorable mention goes to portal, like the poster above already stated. You can troll and temporarily deke pursuers but it's not a viable disengagement tool or a substitute for a proper gap-closer.

I've played sorc since release, both the Arc portal and the "new" elusive mist are horrible due to ground targeting component compared to streak.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why arcanist sustain is sooo bad. It is like you are starving one moment and over sustaining the next. Same for damage, sometimes you do nothing, sometimes the streams cross and you get good damage.

taugrim · June 2023

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

So far my biggest pain point with the class is that its sustain is, in a word, dogwater.

You definitely have to build harder into sustain than most other classes.

The other issue is that due to the "max resource" mechanic, the damage and healing skills for Magarcs are consuming just your Magicka pool.

I've only played Stamarc, and at least I can split my resource usage:

damage and heal skills consume Stamina
buffs and CCs consume Magicka

HidesInPlainSight · June 2023

katorga wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

So far my biggest pain point with the class is that its sustain is, in a word, dogwater.

You definitely have to build harder into sustain than most other classes.

Honorable mention goes to portal, like the poster above already stated. You can troll and temporarily deke pursuers but it's not a viable disengagement tool or a substitute for a proper gap-closer.

I've played sorc since release, both the Arc portal and the "new" elusive mist are horrible due to ground targeting component compared to streak.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why arcanist sustain is sooo bad. It is like you are starving one moment and over sustaining the next. Same for damage, sometimes you do nothing, sometimes the streams cross and you get good damage.

Sustain is bad, because the devs force you into using the beam. If you use the Beam as your primary damage source, like in PvE, you wont have an issue and will be sustaining fine. But as soon as you step outside of the Beam rotation you your sustain is garbage, even at 3k stam recovery.

I primarily play No CP IC, because its where the best fights, and better small scalers are at. But, damn does Arcanist have resource issues there. Even running Torc of Tonal Consitency necklace, if I run into another skilled player and Ill eventually be stammed out, even in a stalemate.

It really feels like the class is going to be a CP only for pvp, and rely heavily on procs to be able to do damage, since you will end up having to use more sustain.

Alchimiste1 · June 2023

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

So, I was completely wrong in that they seemed a little lacking in pvp viability and that they would get their damage from weapon lines.

They 100% melt players and use zero weapon skills to do it. In fact I haven't even bother leveling a backbar weapon line because its hardly needed. Its just a buff bar with a defending trait stat stick. Like one passive from a weapons skill line is even needed.

Arcanist slap so hard, that I forgot to even grab a Mundus stone until after I fully leveled and was already doing bgs.

Here are some Combat Metrics from some fights. I don't even have all my passives or goldened out gear. Still testing out sets.

These are sub 30 second duels, one is 11 seconds not sure we can draw any conclusion from that.

sabresandiego_ESO · June 2023

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

So far my biggest pain point with the class is that its sustain is, in a word, dogwater.

You definitely have to build harder into sustain than most other classes.

Honorable mention goes to portal, like the poster above already stated. You can troll and temporarily deke pursuers but it's not a viable disengagement tool or a substitute for a proper gap-closer.

I've played sorc since release, both the Arc portal and the "new" elusive mist are horrible due to ground targeting component compared to streak.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why arcanist sustain is sooo bad. It is like you are starving one moment and over sustaining the next. Same for damage, sometimes you do nothing, sometimes the streams cross and you get good damage.

Sustain is bad, because the devs force you into using the beam. If you use the Beam as your primary damage source, like in PvE, you wont have an issue and will be sustaining fine. But as soon as you step outside of the Beam rotation you your sustain is garbage, even at 3k stam recovery.

I primarily play No CP IC, because its where the best fights, and better small scalers are at. But, damn does Arcanist have resource issues there. Even running Torc of Tonal Consitency necklace, if I run into another skilled player and Ill eventually be stammed out, even in a stalemate.

It really feels like the class is going to be a CP only for pvp, and rely heavily on procs to be able to do damage, since you will end up having to use more sustain.

I’ve found some interesting ways to make Arcanist sustain well in nocp. I’d recommend experimenting with different gear and builds. You get a ton of sustain from slotting soldier of apocrypha abilities as well

taugrim · June 2023

Curious to hear feedback from other Arcanists on the class stun.

I was

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

So far my biggest pain point with the class is that its sustain is, in a word, dogwater.

You definitely have to build harder into sustain than most other classes.

Honorable mention goes to portal, like the poster above already stated. You can troll and temporarily deke pursuers but it's not a viable disengagement tool or a substitute for a proper gap-closer.

I've played sorc since release, both the Arc portal and the "new" elusive mist are horrible due to ground targeting component compared to streak.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why arcanist sustain is sooo bad. It is like you are starving one moment and over sustaining the next. Same for damage, sometimes you do nothing, sometimes the streams cross and you get good damage.

Sustain is bad, because the devs force you into using the beam. If you use the Beam as your primary damage source, like in PvE, you wont have an issue and will be sustaining fine. But as soon as you step outside of the Beam rotation you your sustain is garbage, even at 3k stam recovery.

I primarily play No CP IC, because its where the best fights, and better small scalers are at. But, damn does Arcanist have resource issues there. Even running Torc of Tonal Consitency necklace, if I run into another skilled player and Ill eventually be stammed out, even in a stalemate.

It really feels like the class is going to be a CP only for pvp, and rely heavily on procs to be able to do damage, since you will end up having to use more sustain.

I’ve found some interesting ways to make Arcanist sustain well in nocp. I’d recommend experimenting with different gear and builds. You get a ton of sustain from slotting soldier of apocrypha abilities as well

Yup.

I have 1 Soldier ability on the frontbar (Rune of Uncanny Adoration).

I have FOUR Solder abilities on the backbar (Cruxweaver Armor, Runeguard of Freedom, Impervious Runeward, and Sanctum ult).

I also backbar Wretched Vitality. Some might feel that's overkill, but running out of resources sucks in No CP.

As I wrote earlier, it also behooves players to go Stamarc instead of Magarc, because your damage and healing consume your max resource pool, whereas the buffs, CCs, and shields all consume Magicka. Splitting consumption from 2 pools = last longer in terms of sustain.

HidesInPlainSight · June 2023

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

So, I was completely wrong in that they seemed a little lacking in pvp viability and that they would get their damage from weapon lines.

They 100% melt players and use zero weapon skills to do it. In fact I haven't even bother leveling a backbar weapon line because its hardly needed. Its just a buff bar with a defending trait stat stick. Like one passive from a weapons skill line is even needed.

Arcanist slap so hard, that I forgot to even grab a Mundus stone until after I fully leveled and was already doing bgs.

Here are some Combat Metrics from some fights. I don't even have all my passives or goldened out gear. Still testing out sets.

These are sub 30 second duels, one is 11 seconds not sure we can draw any conclusion from that.

Here are some IC fights and a BG fight from earlier today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-j9FnG8N5o

SkaraMinoc · June 2023

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

I'm actually having a difficult time putting together an Arcanist healer build for Battlegrounds. There's no aoe burst heal so I'd have to use Combat Prayer (gross). Arcanists have minimal HoTs and the scaling on Chakram is dreadful.

I take this comment back. Arcanist is a very strong PvP healer if you build into Gibbering Shelter, Chakram, and Impervious Ward. It's very much a shield healer and plays completely different than any of the other classes.

notyuu · June 2023

Syiccal wrote: »

It seems to be a pve class and from what I've seen hard to do anything with worth while in pvp due to the long 4 second spammable..

firstly, the 4 second long laser isn't a spammable, it's the "burst" (8K every 0.3 seconds, can be block cancled, nasyt stuff)
Secondly the classes effecitvness in pvp is entire dependant upon server preformance, lag = you're gonna have a bad time
thrid and lastly, arcanist really shines as PvP support rather than murder due to all the buffs, debuffs and mobility annoaynces they bring to the table

taugrim · June 2023

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

I'm actually having a difficult time putting together an Arcanist healer build for Battlegrounds. There's no aoe burst heal so I'd have to use Combat Prayer (gross). Arcanists have minimal HoTs and the scaling on Chakram is dreadful.

I take this comment back. Arcanist is a very strong PvP healer if you build into Gibbering Shelter, Chakram, and Impervious Ward. It's very much a shield healer and plays completely different than any of the other classes.

^ This

The only thing that bugs me is that in BGs is that shielding doesn't generate score to the same extent as healing, even though they both solve the same need (i.e. allies not dying).

HidesInPlainSight · June 2023

notyuu wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

It seems to be a pve class and from what I've seen hard to do anything with worth while in pvp due to the long 4 second spammable..

firstly, the 4 second long laser isn't a spammable, it's the "burst" (8K every 0.3 seconds, can be block cancled, nasyt stuff)
Secondly the classes effecitvness in pvp is entire dependant upon server preformance, lag = you're gonna have a bad time
thrid and lastly, arcanist really shines as PvP support rather than murder due to all the buffs, debuffs and mobility annoaynces they bring to the table

Its hot garbage at the single slightest bit of lag or desync. Its unplayable in Cyrodill except at the lowest population times.

When the serves melt, like right now, their entire does not register.

sabresandiego_ESO · June 2023

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

I'm actually having a difficult time putting together an Arcanist healer build for Battlegrounds. There's no aoe burst heal so I'd have to use Combat Prayer (gross). Arcanists have minimal HoTs and the scaling on Chakram is dreadful.

I take this comment back. Arcanist is a very strong PvP healer if you build into Gibbering Shelter, Chakram, and Impervious Ward. It's very much a shield healer and plays completely different than any of the other classes.

I’ve been healed (shielded) by you and by another shielding Arcanist. It’s definitely a very strong build and it did super well, I didn’t die.

But since I’m an Arcanist myself, and my builds have really low health, I kinda need a wardens health buff. Otherwise I’d say Arcanist shielding is excellent.

Still have to see it in higher level gameplay with better players though