Arcanist worth buying from a pvp perspective only.

Syiccal

It seems to be a pve class and from what I've seen hard to do anything with worth while in pvp due to the long 4 second spammable..

Rhaegar75

Syiccal wrote: »

It seems to be a pve class and from what I've seen hard to do anything with worth while in pvp due to the long 4 second spammable..

I haven’t tried it but reading around it seems to confirm your point. Obviously some Uber players will shine no matter what but I get the sense that most average players may struggle.

I hope I’m wrong considering that my hypothesis is not based on evidence I’ve gathered myself

Mansquito

Not if you're on Xbox EU, it'd just be a waste of money and exacerbate glaring issues with the server.

Outside of that I'd say yeah, unless you want to be left behind by the new meta.

xDeusEJRx

For now I'd say wait at least 2 weeks to make a decision. I say about 2 weeks is the period after any patch to formulate an opinion, people have permanent setups they'll run for the entire patch 2 weeks in.

OtarTheMad

I think in PvP, from what I tested, it will struggle but I could be wrong. One thing we couldn’t do in PTS was test it in Cyrodiil in Grey Host (aka tri-alliance pop locked environment)

Fatecarver will be pretty avoidable, same with watcher ultimate but in choke point situations they could hit hard if you stun people. A bridge, a front door or tight corridor in a keep… you could surprise and take out people but open field? Gonna be hard

Runeblades is a good spammable, seems one morph is PvE and the other is PvP.

Tentacle has okay damage but I use it for the immobilization to set up Fatecarver, might make Fatecarver hit more often but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

I think Arcanist will be a great group class because of that ability, if you choose the right morph, can have up to 3 people synchronize. So in organized groups that’ll hit like a truck. Solo? Idk. It’ll be better than Magcro but that doesn’t say much.

This upcoming second Whitestrake’s will be a good way to see how it does since it’ll be out and a lot of people would have power leveled by then. It could just simply be a case where people just didn’t figure it out while it was in PTS and we were able to do BGs.

tsaescishoeshiner

Benefits of Arcanist:
- Outplay people before they learn how to fight arcanists
- You and your group get Minor Evasion, defending you against AoE (including other arcanists)
- You get an AoE immobilize—one morph is an execute, one is a heal
- You get to play something totally new for a change

It's worth it for me, but you might differ! Doesn't seem like it's guaranteed to be a top 2 class for dueling/1vX, but I saw people beating other classes up as arcanists on day 1 PTS.

tsaescishoeshiner

Oh I should add, they don't have a 4-second spammable. Fatecarver is more like Grim Focus/Scorch/Frags/Radiant Oppression, and you don't even have to use it. They added a second instant damage skill to spend Crux for big AoE burst that probably most people will use instead in PvP.

Syiccal

I have a few weeks extra being on console so il have to look at some pvp content to see how's it's performing. From what I can tell so far it's easy 100k dps in pve due to beam but that's not something that will work well in pvp

HidesInPlainSight

Arcanist has a pretty interesting defense / buff / debuff kit for pvp. The offense seems fairy lack luster, and will probably get its damage from weapons / guild skill lines. The beam will just be ran from, its AoE burst will be ate by % dmg reduction like Major Evasion.

I have a feeling its going to be an attrition style of play, with maybe one real gank, but will see more use in ballgroups or small scale groups.

YandereGirlfriend

To answer your question, ZOS seems to be responding to criticism of their previous Chapter launches about the new features being Pay-2-Win. This has included some pre-nerfing of the available Mythics as well as the likely under-tuning of the Arcanist as a class. So this isn't going to be a repeat of the Elsweyr-era "Oops! All StamCros!" patches.

As others have mentioned, it's worth it if you play in any groups, because Minor Evasion is a very nice defensive buff in siege-infested Cyrodiil. They also have a nice synergy as well as interesting utility abilities. Damage-wise, expect to never hit anyone with Beam and you won't be disappointed when it repeatedly fails to land due to having a tiny AOE and being subject to traditional Cyro positional de-syncs (as all Dawnbreaker enjoyers know all too well) and server latency jank.

Jestir

The class seems to lack burst, especially with the issues that fate carver has in pvp, which really hurt its ability to be competitive damage wise

But it brings fantastic support and utility that should allow it to shine in group settings or with more generic arena weapon builds

taugrim

Nvm, posted questions on PTS forum instead:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/635058/arcanist-passives-questions

SimonThesis

Don't listen to what you've heard about this class, build it yourself and see!

It will be really good for pvp you can do more burst damage than even wardens rn. It gets 12% passive crit damage, and 1k pen per arcanist skill on your bar. Escalating rune does aoe damage and builds crux, Fatecarver can you give you a 19k+ (10k in cyro) damage shield you can reset just by recasting it, tent dread with 3 crux does more damage than shalks, their synergy is stronger than graverobber before it got nerfed and can be hit by 3 people.

Here's an example of some of the damage stats.

Syiccal

SimonThesis wrote: »

Don't listen to what you've heard about this class, build it yourself and see!

It will be really good for pvp you can do more burst damage than even wardens rn. It gets 12% passive crit damage, and 1k pen per arcanist skill on your bar. Escalating rune does aoe damage and builds crux, Fatecarver can you give you a 20k+ (10k in cyro) damage shield you can reset just by recasting it, tent dread with 3 crux does more damage than shalks, their synergy is stronger than graverobber before it got nerfed and can be hit by 3 people.

Here's an example of some of the damage stats.

Il be honest it was sounding interesting but the lack of regen in the screenshot and the apparent sustain issues I've seen this class has makes me think that all the spell dmg, crit and pen doesn't matter as you be dry of resources in no time...but I could be wrong

OtarTheMad

SimonThesis wrote: »

Don't listen to what you've heard about this class, build it yourself and see!

It will be really good for pvp you can do more burst damage than even wardens rn. It gets 12% passive crit damage, and 1k pen per arcanist skill on your bar. Escalating rune does aoe damage and builds crux, Fatecarver can you give you a 20k+ (10k in cyro) damage shield you can reset just by recasting it, tent dread with 3 crux does more damage than shalks, their synergy is stronger than graverobber before it got nerfed and can be hit by 3 people.

Here's an example of some of the damage stats.

While I do agree with the build it and see part, I built a pure damage-like build on the PTS during week 1 and while the stats were great, I almost never had magicka. That photo shows a lot of good stats but I guess the question would be when you have to be defensive, can you be? Or are you pure glass cannon.

I recommend people play around with Arcanist, try sets that don’t make sense on paper just to see because even though some have made builds on websites and stuff, no one really figured out Arcanist yet.

The build I tried in week 1 was 5pc heartland conqueror, 5pc war maiden and 2pc balorgh. I figured with Arcanist insane tanking I can spec more damage but found that yes I do hit hard but it was really hard to be defensive with such a low regen… I couldn’t cast anything and usually died.

React

If you're playing a tank or a support, maybe.

If you're playing damage, I'd say no. The class just doesn't have good or enjoyable damage abilities. Seems like most of the effective damage dealing arcanists on the PTS source >75% of their damage from proc sets and weapon abilities. I personally just don't find that enjoyable, and would rather play a class like stamsorc if I was going to source my damage in that way.

Turtle_Bot

React wrote: »

If you're playing a tank or a support, maybe.

If you're playing damage, I'd say no. The class just doesn't have good or enjoyable damage abilities. Seems like most of the effective damage dealing arcanists on the PTS source >75% of their damage from proc sets and weapon abilities. I personally just don't find that enjoyable, and would rather play a class like stamsorc if I was going to source my damage in that way.

This is how I'll be trying it out at first, as a "stamsorc at home", with mist form and masters DW. I'll try it out this way to see how it flows, probably Mara's back bar, masters front, zoals + 2 pc trainee + DDF or markyn and go from there.

I was tinkering with a HP bomber build back in early PTS weeks, but haven't had a chance to develop it since then so it might not be viable anymore after the many changes, I need to test it out properly still.

SimonThesis

Syiccal wrote: »

Il be honest it was sounding interesting but the lack of regen in the screenshot and the apparent sustain issues I've seen this class has makes me think that all the spell dmg, crit and pen doesn't matter as you be dry of resources in no time...but I could be wrong

Just be in a pvp group giving recovery buffs/sets or run recovery food instead like Artaeum takeaway broth or Clockwork citrus filet. You could also run recovery cp too.

React wrote: »

The class just doesn't have good or enjoyable damage abilities.

Have you built it on the pts?

taugrim

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

- You get an AoE immobilize—one morph is an execute, one is a heal

Actually the heal and execute are on the same morph (Ceph's Flail).

The other (Tentacular Dread) does scale quite a bit with Crux.

katorga

Seems like it will be easy mode in PVE - Fatecarver functions the same as an Oakensoul HA build, with the benefit of two bars.

The class seems purpose built for ballgroups.

• Note that THREE people can proc the Fulminating rune synergy, so 13K X 3 all in one GCD. (Now you know why Harmony got completely nerfed.)
• AOE immobilize spammable
• Built-in shield stacking
• OK healing, and lots of buffs for ball group

PTS I tested with Khajiit, orders wrath, Gourmand crit build and worked OK PVE and dueling.

CameraBeardThePirate

It will be absolutely worth it in PvP. It's a new class, so there will be people on both sides of the spectrum saying that the class is either turbo-broken OP or terribad and underwhelming.

The class has lots of good passives and group utility. It'll take some times for balance and a meta to develop, but I can't see the class being any worse than Necro and Templar in PvP so I'd say it's more than worth it.

SkaraMinoc

SimonThesis wrote: »

Here's an example of some of the damage stats.

Yesterday, I landed a 9k haunting curse and 20k dawnbreaker on an Arcanist. I didn't even get a chance to Whirling Blades.

Maybe they were running the same 11k resist build?

katorga

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Here's an example of some of the damage stats.

Yesterday, I landed a 9k haunting curse and 20k dawnbreaker on an Arcanist. I didn't even get a chance to Whirling Blades.

Maybe they were running the same 11k resist build?

My experience with the few I've seen. As a sorc, all of my damage is delivered outside of Arcanist range. They can't hit anything with Fatecarver unless it is charging right at them. That stat sheet must be missing some buffs and food, my sorc has almost the same stats, and ~24K resists and 2K+ regens.

Either way I'm gritting my teeth and trudging through leveling one up, just in case.

React

SimonThesis wrote: »

React wrote: »

The class just doesn't have good or enjoyable damage abilities.

Have you built it on the pts?

Yes, I have. Have you used any of those 3 abilities you just cited?

Fatecarver is a channel beam, more or less useless in a PVP setting unless your target is standing still or you vastly outnumber them.

The useful part of fulminating rune is the initial delayed burst - which has a very low TT. I don't think you'll be seeing this ever hit more than 5k at the absolute maximum on a properly built player.

Tentacular dread has a nice TT and nice secondary effects - but the conal-esque nature of it's targeting combined with it's 0.3 second cast time make it extremely difficult to land in the best of circumstances. When you account for location desync in cryodiil (or just in general) this skill is clunky and unreliable.

SimonThesis

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

Here's an example of some of the damage stats.

Yesterday, I landed a 9k haunting curse and 20k dawnbreaker on an Arcanist. I didn't even get a chance to Whirling Blades.

Maybe they were running the same 11k resist build?

You just run a skill that gives major resolve or have a warden with expansive frost cloak in group.

HidesInPlainSight

So, I was completely wrong in that they seemed a little lacking in pvp viability and that they would get their damage from weapon lines.

They 100% melt players and use zero weapon skills to do it. In fact I haven't even bother leveling a backbar weapon line because its hardly needed. Its just a buff bar with a defending trait stat stick. Like one passive from a weapons skill line is even needed.

Arcanist slap so hard, that I forgot to even grab a Mundus stone until after I fully leveled and was already doing bgs.

Here are some Combat Metrics from some fights. I don't even have all my passives or goldened out gear. Still testing out sets.

Syiccal

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

So, I was completely wrong in that they seemed a little lacking in pvp viability and that they would get their damage from weapon lines.

They 100% melt players and use zero weapon skills to do it. In fact I haven't even bother leveling a backbar weapon line because its hardly needed. Its just a buff bar with a defending trait stat stick. Like one passive from a weapons skill line is even needed.

Arcanist slap so hard, that I forgot to even grab a Mundus stone until after I fully leveled and was already doing bgs.

Here are some Combat Metrics from some fights. I don't even have all my passives or goldened out gear. Still testing out sets.

What I would say though is you will have been in properly low mmr bgs so it's not really a true tell of its power

HidesInPlainSight

Syiccal wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

So, I was completely wrong in that they seemed a little lacking in pvp viability and that they would get their damage from weapon lines.

They 100% melt players and use zero weapon skills to do it. In fact I haven't even bother leveling a backbar weapon line because its hardly needed. Its just a buff bar with a defending trait stat stick. Like one passive from a weapons skill line is even needed.

Arcanist slap so hard, that I forgot to even grab a Mundus stone until after I fully leveled and was already doing bgs.

Here are some Combat Metrics from some fights. I don't even have all my passives or goldened out gear. Still testing out sets.

What I would say though is you will have been in properly low mmr bgs so it's not really a true tell of its power

The first one is from a duel in Stormhaven from a regular dueler. I had more from other duels with some of top duelist but did not save them. They all hit like a truck. Its the only class ive seen burst through both Sorcs sheild, health, and pets in an ultimate dump and one skill against a top dueler. Its a high risk / reward 1v1 and in a group, they will really shine. They have huge potential for bombing as well.

Visit Stormhaven for duels and you will see how strong they are. We had the whole area lagging from all the green *** being cast last night.

katorga

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

So, I was completely wrong in that they seemed a little lacking in pvp viability and that they would get their damage from weapon lines.

They 100% melt players and use zero weapon skills to do it. In fact I haven't even bother leveling a backbar weapon line because its hardly needed. Its just a buff bar with a defending trait stat stick. Like one passive from a weapons skill line is even needed.

Arcanist slap so hard, that I forgot to even grab a Mundus stone until after I fully leveled and was already doing bgs.

Here are some Combat Metrics from some fights. I don't even have all my passives or goldened out gear. Still testing out sets.

What I would say though is you will have been in properly low mmr bgs so it's not really a true tell of its power

The first one is from a duel in Stormhaven from a regular dueler. I had more from other duels with some of top duelist but did not save them. They all hit like a truck. Its the only class ive seen burst through both Sorcs sheild, health, and pets in an ultimate dump and one skill against a top dueler. Its a high risk / reward 1v1 and in a group, they will really shine. They have huge potential for bombing as well.

Visit Stormhaven for duels and you will see how strong they are. We had the whole area lagging from all the green *** being cast last night.

Too many arcanists in one place can crash the client, just saying.

Ya, duels where you HAVE to take the beam are perfect for the class. I can see them being excluded from dueling tournaments as a class. BGs and IC also are their forte. Open world Cyro, I seem to avoid them pretty easy, but a large group push into a keep and you will see a forest of beams.

YandereGirlfriend

Syiccal wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

So, I was completely wrong in that they seemed a little lacking in pvp viability and that they would get their damage from weapon lines.

They 100% melt players and use zero weapon skills to do it. In fact I haven't even bother leveling a backbar weapon line because its hardly needed. Its just a buff bar with a defending trait stat stick. Like one passive from a weapons skill line is even needed.

Arcanist slap so hard, that I forgot to even grab a Mundus stone until after I fully leveled and was already doing bgs.

Here are some Combat Metrics from some fights. I don't even have all my passives or goldened out gear. Still testing out sets.

What I would say though is you will have been in properly low mmr bgs so it's not really a true tell of its power

Came here to say this.

Also, did they fix the tracking on Tide King? Because that thing was REAL EASY to avoid taking from during the first few weeks of the PTS.

Syiccal

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

So, I was completely wrong in that they seemed a little lacking in pvp viability and that they would get their damage from weapon lines.

They 100% melt players and use zero weapon skills to do it. In fact I haven't even bother leveling a backbar weapon line because its hardly needed. Its just a buff bar with a defending trait stat stick. Like one passive from a weapons skill line is even needed.

Arcanist slap so hard, that I forgot to even grab a Mundus stone until after I fully leveled and was already doing bgs.

Here are some Combat Metrics from some fights. I don't even have all my passives or goldened out gear. Still testing out sets.

What I would say though is you will have been in properly low mmr bgs so it's not really a true tell of its power

Came here to say this.

Also, did they fix the tracking on Tide King? Because that thing was REAL EASY to avoid taking from during the first few weeks of the PTS.

To be fair I'd say tide King might be better suited to pve, in pvp dawnbreaker stun into beam might work better maybe..its no different than what I do on my plar now with DB to jabs/jbeam