[SUGGESTION] Make it possible to use shield as weapon

AnduinTryggva · June 2023

I know that we have shield bash and such but it is more to debuff the enemy rather than really causing damage.

However, I really would like to see a decent sword&shield damage dealer build possibility irrespective of class. I don't suggest that it should be competitive for end game. But it should be enough to cut thru public dungeon as easily as an everyday pve build.

So I suggest to modify a few shield skills that are not much used by tanks and give them some more decent damage output. As much as for the sword.

Kendaric · June 2023

I'd love to see an offensive sword & shield skill line.

In theory it could even be done by using some of the current skill animations, so it wouldn't be too much work.

AnduinTryggva · June 2023

To elaborate a bit:
If it should be a decent damage dealer and the shield still giving some protection it would be an advantage. However, other damage dealers use shield skills to protect themselves. So it should be not a huge problem. It would be enough to have separate sword&shield skills, one that are for tanks (crowd controll, protection, battlefield controll, debuffing) and one for damage dealers that are damage oriented.

Braffin · June 2023

It's a fine suggestion, I'd like to see added. I also see no problem in making s&b a viable choice for endgame builds, as long as tanking isn't affected.

ghastley · June 2023

Power Slam isn’t amazing, but it does exist, and I have a couple of tank characters that slot it when they want to do solo stuff.

BasP · June 2023

I'd be on board with that, as I definitely like the aesthetics of using a sword and shield. Admittedly I haven't leveled the skill line on any of my characters thus far though due to the (relatively) large DPS difference between using a S&B or a DW/TH front bar.

Edit: Damnit, now you've made me want to level the skill line on my Arcanist anyways. Form over function, for a change.

colossalvoids · June 2023

Just to get this straight, it's a request for an all new skill line more of (which would deny current snb passives)? Just asking as you absolutely can run sword and board on a DD if you don't care about being competetive (or just run solo so do not care about people around), more so most of the current skill line is pretty usable. And it's absolutely can go way, way above public dungeons already.

Tyrant_Tim · June 2023

I would love for an offense S&B that didn’t result in my character repeatedly shield bashing.

Maybe when we eventually get a Templar support rework as it’s one of the weakest next to Sorcerer, ZOS could add a damage boost when a Shield is equipped similar to Warden’s Frost Staff 10% increase.

WoppaBoem · June 2023

This was a thing in the past in PVP and it was a nightmare being able deal dmg and block for very low cost made the people using it was to god like. So great idea but its a pve and pvp game and on the pvp side the S&B backbar is very strong as it should but also doing dmg would create a huge potential problem.

Tyrant_Tim · June 2023

WoppaBoem wrote: »

This was a thing in the past in PVP and it was a nightmare being able deal dmg and block for very low cost made the people using it was to god like. So great idea but its a pve and pvp game and on the pvp side the S&B backbar is very strong as it should but also doing dmg would create a huge potential problem.

Agreed they should be separated, but the “problem” you’ve mentioned already exists, you have Wardens using a Frost Staff + Sword and Shield together, essentially TWO tank weapons and still reliably killing players. If they gave Sword and Shield offensive capability similar to the Warden pass, but to one class, it wouldn’t break the game.

Baron_Atjas · June 2023

I don't agree, there was some time when we had some unkillable builds with good DPS in pvp with a shield and a weapon (I am thinking a lot about the DKs). I remember it was a pain to deal with them. It will impact end game no matter what, as you are modifying the skill base and zenimax is not separating PVE and PVP to prevent this.
Someone with high damage should have a weak resistance and versi-versa , or else there would be only one Meta 1W-shield in PVP for all builds.
For PVE, for not ending game, having a second weapon slot is enough to have the opportunity to deal damage in my opinion.

AnduinTryggva · June 2023

I understand your concerns about pvp.
However, it is really not much fun to play a sword&shield toon in pve for questing. Fights drag on compared to the more capable damage dealer builds. This might be ONE reason why we have so few tanks ingame making tanks a highly convoted group of players. Because too few people take the chance to level one up enough. It's just a pain in you-know-where. Well, that's the case for me anyhow.

mocap · June 2023

type "eso sword and shield dps" in youtube. There are a lot of DPS builds with S&B.

upd: although I don't recommend going dungeons with such builds. There's an extremely high chance that you'll get kicked.

Kendaric · June 2023

mocap wrote: »

type "eso sword and shield dps" in youtube. There are a lot of DPS builds with S&B.

upd: although I don't recommend going dungeons with such builds. There's an extremely high chance that you'll get kicked.

Do those builds focus on the sword & shield skills though? Or do they mainly depend on class skills?

Jaraal · June 2023

My best fighter in PvP is a damage focused shield user. Shielded Assault is both a gap closer and a stun, and very good for mobility and CC. The rest of the bars are class and guild skills that have synergistic effects. Good mix of damage and defense.... if you build for it. And some builds are far more effective than others. It just takes some experimentation to find what works best for you.

AnduinTryggva · June 2023

Kendaric wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

type "eso sword and shield dps" in youtube. There are a lot of DPS builds with S&B.

upd: although I don't recommend going dungeons with such builds. There's an extremely high chance that you'll get kicked.

Do those builds focus on the sword & shield skills though? Or do they mainly depend on class skills?

They likely depend on class skills.

So as I tried to clarify with my second post in this thread but probably was not very successful with it:
I know that a shield can give some nice protection which justifies why damage output is limited.

This is why I suggest to separate protective function of the shield from the damage function that one could have with a shield. So that the player needs to decide if he goes for protection or for damage. This could for instance be realised by having two morphs, one being protection the other damage (I don't suggest this as THE solution, just as a possible way to avoid the issues mentioned above).

Kendaric · June 2023

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

type "eso sword and shield dps" in youtube. There are a lot of DPS builds with S&B.

upd: although I don't recommend going dungeons with such builds. There's an extremely high chance that you'll get kicked.

Do those builds focus on the sword & shield skills though? Or do they mainly depend on class skills?

They likely depend on class skills.

So as I tried to clarify with my second post in this thread but probably was not very successful with it:
I know that a shield can give some nice protection which justifies why damage output is limited.

This is why I suggest to separate protective function of the shield from the damage function that one could have with a shield. So that the player needs to decide if he goes for protection or for damage. This could for instance be realised by having two morphs, one being protection the other damage (I don't suggest this as THE solution, just as a possible way to avoid the issues mentioned above).

Yeah, your solution is basically the one I'd take with an offensive sword & shield skill line. One morph for being more tanky and one for dealing more damage.

In any case we need more options for weapon-based melee characters.