We need to talk about the senseless nerfing...

doabhi · June 2023

Firstly the elephant in the room: Arcanist.
As seems to be tradition now, I am foreshadowing the nerfs that will come to the Arcanist in the near future, and want to say: Please don't. If anything, this class needs buffing a bit in the damage department, because as it is right now, it's very hard to get any real damage out of it on live, though this could also be a product of the nerfing that's happened in other areas (Gear?)

Nightblade:
The 10% passive damage gain from concealed weapon was removed, which used to proc from major expedition from twisting path and now needs to be cast in order to get the buff instead of passively which places extra drain on resources and making rotations more complicated especially during execute stages; if the target moves and forces you out of the cone of the path skill you can no longer trigger the buff and have to re-cast, so nightblades have lost a source of damage.

wrecking blow's major berserk was changed from 5 sec to 3 which feels too short to make it feel useful mid rotation.

Oakensoul:
Bring it back. You touted this mythic as a way of making 1 bar builds accessible to people who are not as agile as other hardcore players, but now you've made it practically worthless, .
it's nowhere near as useful as it used to be in PVE. i'm not talking about PVP here
As some pointed out this is likely due to nerfs in other aspects which I overlooked, though the mythic itself still feels a husk of its former self as a result, whatever the cause. the investment of losing the back bar gives back less than it used to.

I'm sure others can chime in and add their 2 cents, i'm only speaking for classes I use.

Edited for clarity

Alienoutlaw · June 2023

Arcanist:
there a couple of skills that currently currently "seem" OP but i think thats due more to the fact they a new to other players and once we see them a bit more and learn a counter, they will slot into the "annoyance" catagory along with beamplars and S2Wblades.

Nightblades:
inline with every other class, the change was needed.

Oakensoul:
whilst Oakensoul may not be as strong as it was originally it is STILL a very strong mythic, there are many builds that utilise the many passives it provides.

thorwyn · June 2023

but now you've made it practically worthless, it's just a junk item that removes your back bar and no longer gives any real return for that investment like it used to.

N3CR01 · June 2023

doabhi wrote: »

Oakensoul:
Bring it back. You touted this mythic as a way of making 1 bar builds accessible to people who are not as agile as other hardcore players, but now you've made it practically worthless, it's just a junk item that removes your back bar and no longer gives any real return for that investment like it used to.

What!???

wilykcat · June 2023

N3CR01 wrote: »

doabhi wrote: »

Oakensoul:
Bring it back. You touted this mythic as a way of making 1 bar builds accessible to people who are not as agile as other hardcore players, but now you've made it practically worthless, it's just a junk item that removes your back bar and no longer gives any real return for that investment like it used to.

What!???

What😳

boi_anachronism_ · June 2023

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

Arcanist:
there a couple of skills that currently currently "seem" OP but i think thats due more to the fact they a new to other players and once we see them a bit more and learn a counter, they will slot into the "annoyance" catagory along with beamplars and S2Wblades.

Nightblades:
inline with every other class, the change was needed.

Oakensoul:
whilst Oakensoul may not be as strong as it was originally it is STILL a very strong mythic, there are many builds that utilise the many passives it provides.

Nope. Nightblades were finally inline with every other class in pve. Look a the parses. Dks and sorcs still beat them by a significant margin. Up until 2 patches ago i was constantly asked why i brought a blade into group content. They were considered a pvp only class as far as usefulness. Their group passive was the only thing keeping them in trial content period.nb got nerfed to heck in eswyer and hadnt been given anything until 2 patches ago and then of course everyone got sour. Forgetting that other classes still beat the crud outta them when it comes down to it. In content it has been pointed out that they will effectively lose the buff completely so for anything other then an ss or a parse you should probably just respec.

Soarora · June 2023

What oakensoul nerf are you talking about? The removal of major heroism? Oakensoul is OP for no CP PvP and lightning HA sorc. The major heroism was neat though. I think ZOS should either refocus it into a 1-bar NON-HA mythic like it’s supposed to be OR change the buffs depending on PvP/PvE and role.

Amottica · June 2023

A new class will be popular merely because it’s the new class. Zenimax is likely to make changes based on real data, not just perceptions based on a few days of gameplay.

Not sure what the deal is with the ring. Oakensoul is still very viable. One thing about simpler builds, such as a one- bar build, they should only be viable enough to help players who want or need a simple build but not viable enough to where they displace more complex builds used by players willing and able to use such builds.

StarOfElyon · June 2023

Soarora wrote: »

What oakensoul nerf are you talking about? The removal of major heroism? Oakensoul is OP for no CP PvP and lightning HA sorc. The major heroism was neat though. I think ZOS should either refocus it into a 1-bar NON-HA mythic like it’s supposed to be OR change the buffs depending on PvP/PvE and role.

I do NOT want to see the return of Brokensoul DKs.

jaws343 · June 2023

The only Oakensoul recent adjustment was a nerf to Empower.

Which, isn't actually an Oakensoul nerf, it is an Empower nerf.

And, overall, the nerf to empower is meaningless. It's a 6% nerf to heavy attack damage. Which, in a build, will end up being like a 2% nerf to a heavy attack build.

An adjustment to a buff that results in only a 2% nerf to a build, isn't even a real nerf for the build, let alone the niche mythic item that happens to have that buff.

If you are talking about the adjustment from nearly a year ago, it literally did not ruin the ring. In fact, it gave it even more utility, while also removing the absolutely broken aspect of it in Major Heroism.

On a whole though, I disagree with your overall premise that Nerfs are inherently bad. Nerfs bring over performing items back in line with the rest of the pack. Which is essential for a healthy balance in the game while avoiding power creep.

El_Borracho · June 2023

doabhi wrote: »

Oakensoul:
Bring it back. You touted this mythic as a way of making 1 bar builds accessible to people who are not as agile as other hardcore players, but now you've made it practically worthless, it's just a junk item that removes your back bar and no longer gives any real return for that investment like it used to.

While I also loathe nerfing, that would be nuts. There are so many Oakensorcs running through PVE and PVP it borders on the ridiculous.

But you are spot on about Nightblades. It seems ever since I started playing ESO (with Morrowind) the Nightblade has been whittled down to a class that is nearly unrecognizable from what it once was

danno8 · June 2023

Oakensoul is by far still the most powerful Mythic, and likely most powerful item in the entire game.

ADarklore · June 2023

I doubt they will nerf Arcanist, in fact, they'll probably need to buff it. I think far too many people are seeing the click-bait youtubers and their "God mode Arcanist" or "God Killer Arcanist 130K Damage" titles. When sure, in certain situations with very specific gear you might actually be able to reach the same amount of damage as existing classes. However, for the overwhelming majority of players, Arcanist is not proving to be 'top dog' or displacing other classes for the top.

Reality vs Perceived Reality. In other words, don't believe everything you see on the internet, just because some Youtuber says so. Remember, they make MONEY based on views and likes. Thankfully ZOS has the numbers to see what the raw data is.

SaintSubwayy · June 2023

ADarklore wrote: »

I doubt they will nerf Arcanist, in fact, they'll probably need to buff it. I think far too many people are seeing the click-bait youtubers and their "God mode Arcanist" or "God Killer Arcanist 130K Damage" titles. When sure, in certain situations with very specific gear you might actually be able to reach the same amount of damage as existing classes. However, for the overwhelming majority of players, Arcanist is not proving to be 'top dog' or displacing other classes for the top.

Reality vs Perceived Reality. In other words, don't believe everything you see on the internet, just because some Youtuber says so. Remember, they make MONEY based on views and likes. Thankfully ZOS has the numbers to see what the raw data is.

I havent really checked out all the vids on Arcanaist DPS and setups...but in all discords I see the Arcanist parsing on an even playingfield with many other classes.

IMO Zenimax has the tendency to overbuff newer classes and then they need nerfs, which obviously isnt great since everybody who grinded the new "strong" class will get a nerf on their new char and the time invested feels not as valuable anymore.

Just give them time to figure it our, the Patch is out for one week, IMO they should nerf or buff anything for a month, then you'll see pretty quickly whats BIS, OP or needs to be buffed. (ofc if something is massivly to op, then nerf sooner)

SandandStars · June 2023

I don’t understand how ppl can think oakensoul is overpowered in PVP.

In my experience/perspective, a 2bar build will always be stronger. What am I missing?

doabhi · June 2023

again, i'm mostly talking PVE here, ZOS can and has made certain items work differently in PVP, it's well within their capability to turn certain aspects of a set off in PVP areas, or change them to work differently just the same as passives and skills.

I use Oakensoul on my Nightblade, and i watched the damage output drop enormously last year, i've never been able to fully recover it, it's not as powerful as it once was in my experience.

With Arcanist, as it stands right now, i'm seeing very mediocre DPS figures when compared to other classes, 55k on a trial dummy was the highest spike, but it quickly avarages out to around the 30k area (On a trial dummy!) and I can't help but point the issue at the 're-balancing' - don't even get me started on sustain.

El_Borracho · June 2023

SandandStars wrote: »

I don’t understand how ppl can think oakensoul is overpowered in PVP.

In my experience/perspective, a 2bar build will always be stronger. What am I missing?

I wouldn't say its OP, but it allows less skilled players in PVP to be average to effective, particularly if 1-3 Oakensorcs can team up in a confined space. The build does not have any sustain issues as its typically hold down heavy attack mixed with the occasional shard and haunting curse. If you can pressure them, a 2H or DW will beat them pretty quickly.