DOES YOUR CLASS NEED HELP? LOOK AT THIS..

Astin_nds · May 2023

I think it's more than clear that we always have the same discussions, no, whether the dk are strong or less strong than the sorcerers who need help because the Templars don't have minor or major benefits... yes, I see everything well but does anyone think about people who are necromancers like me?

I am a master necromancer, especially magicka, and when I read others I can't help but feel like a man inside me tells me they don't know what they're saying.

Which sorcerer needs help? what to temper? what dks nerfs bufsf?

NECROMANCER:
You currently have no way to get major sorcery by class.
Currently there is no way to access ANY OF THE MINOR BUFFS except for the totem that gives you minor defense but that gives you up to the figthers guild ability and is better on top of that.
Healing from spirits.... heh.. hehehe..... my guardian spirit heals me for 2.8k EVERY 2 SECONDS with 5k spell dmg , which transfers in about not a big deal.
To do DAMAGE ONLY AND EXCLUSIVELY HAS THE BLASTBONES that needs to be summoned DURING 4 SECONDS for a measly 17k damage with malacath band + 5k spell dmg + lightning staff (10%)... it's very bugged, if you cast silence on it, the skeleton OBVIOUSLY HAS NEED TO TALK... he just stands still hahaha and literally prevents you from fighting because while he's summoned YOU can't summon him again xD.
AND THIS NOW has no more arsenal, NOTHING...
The skeleton with damage over time is useless, it does 2k damage every 2 SECONDS, that and nothing in PVP is the same, maybe something for pve but it's also useless.

THUS.....
Sorcerers: VALUE that they give you minor berserker for the face, that you have good shields, good major buffs and great mobility capacity, yes it is true that I lacked some heal but with the amount of shield you have you don't even need it.
WARDENS: Just GG.
DK: Just GG.
Templars: You already have a lot more than the necromancers, I think they are also making good changes.
NB: DO implement extreme GG.
Arcanist: Far better than any necromancer, that's more than enough.

*NOTE: Necromancer changelog in these latest patches:
- Reduced healing from spirits by 50%.
- Spirit guardian can now die.
- Synergy was nerfed by 30+% base, plus if someone used harmony they got a nerf of 20+20+20+30 = approximately 95% less damage.
- Harmony was very boring, better dead but... nerf the base synergy by -33%? unnecessary, with 5k spell dmg + malacath band... it's a laugh... 10k damage EVERY 20 Seconds... when a spamable wand of destruction does much more... if only they lowered the time to about 10s well okay...
- Be careful, the skulls obtained a percentage more damage but you need 3 skulls for it, you would have to count any necromancer ability and it would still not be useful, since the spamable of the staff has more damage and on top of that it ignores a certain resistance due to passives.

IN SUMMARY:
-Everything needs help, everything needs balance.... but please... look back... all those who use other classes just look behind you... if the necromancers are very deep and in need of help.

-With this I do not want to say that they do not help everyone, on the contrary... EVERYONE INCLUDES THE NECROMANCERS!!!.

-I think that any player can realize how bad the necromancer is and simply nobody does anything and they ignore us... please help.

Afterip · May 2023

You forgot our passive offensive abilities, because they are so poor and underpowered:

Death Knell - Increases your critical strike chance against enemies under 25% health by 8% for each Gravelord ability slotted.
(75% targets life its disable and when target has ~5k hp you will have +8%!! crit lol)

Dismember - While a Gravelord ability is active, your spell and physical penetration are increased by 1500.
(wow, so HUGE pen bonus if our blastbones active, because our mage/archer useless *** with no damage)

Rapid Rot - Increases your damage done with damage over time effects by 10%
(this is my winner, because necro dont have class dots)

I think class deserve to rework, but @ZOS dont care about it...

festegios · May 2023

Is this a rant about pvp necro?

OtarTheMad · May 2023

Afterip wrote: »

You forgot our passive offensive abilities, because they are so poor and underpowered:

Death Knell - Increases your critical strike chance against enemies under 25% health by 8% for each Gravelord ability slotted.
(75% targets life its disable and when target has ~5k hp you will have +8%!! crit lol)

Dismember - While a Gravelord ability is active, your spell and physical penetration are increased by 1500.
(wow, so HUGE pen bonus if our blastbones active, because our mage/archer useless *** with no damage)

Rapid Rot - Increases your damage done with damage over time effects by 10%
(this is my winner, because necro dont have class dots)

I think class deserve to rework, but @ZOS dont care about it...

Definitely agree. It really needs a rework.

For a class that leans into elementals a lot, having access to fire, frost, and shock, and no dots, or at least only 1 or 2 at most, I am surprised it has a dot passive.

I said this in another thread and I will say it here. After testing Arcanist and seeing that useless Status Effect passive they have... why not switch Necro and Arcanist passives? Wouldn't the Status Effect passive work better on Necro? And wouldn't the dot damage work better on Arcanist?

merpins · May 2023

Yeah every class needs help. For example, ZoS decided to remove Templar's spammable and its burst damage ability in one patch, so it relies on an AOE skill for a spammable, and doesn't use the old burst skill unless the party needs minor breach. And the class has to rely on the execute phase to actually do damage.

Sure, every class has its problems. I could list the problems with Sorc and Warden as well. But they haven't been fixed in a year so I don't really care anymore.

ESO_Nightingale · May 2023

merpins wrote: »

Yeah every class needs help. For example, ZoS decided to remove Templar's spammable and its burst damage ability in one patch, so it relies on an AOE skill for a spammable, and doesn't use the old burst skill unless the party needs minor breach. And the class has to rely on the execute phase to actually do damage.

Sure, every class has its problems. I could list the problems with Sorc and Warden as well. But they haven't been fixed in a year so I don't really care anymore.

yep. every class needs help in some regard.

DrNukenstein · May 2023

I empathize. Everytime I've considered making a necro, I change mind within 5 minutes of looking at their skills and passives. The class has a scatterbrained kit with no coherence or identity behind it's design except for playing with dead stuff.

Scythe deserves to be a good spammable. It does like the same damage as cleave without the nice things cleave has. Every class deserves a satisfying melee spammable that can be justifiably slotted over d-swing/wrecking.

The number 1 thing they were exceptional at, bombing was taken away from them. I think I've died to one necro bomb all patch, and there was a bunch of other stuff going on at the same time. Now it's just the occasional bashcro flailing their arms 3 times per second in clown form. Necro healing looks like it's a little stronger than most other classes.

A ground AOE delayed cc? Who came up with that. Nightblades would say the class fear is useless, but even without giving it cowardice it still had the advantage of just happening.

The only class with no group buff, and a formerly unique debuff that was tied to a particular ultimate as opposed to a passive. I've seen arguments for making necro the uncontested king of debuffs, and that might be interesting.

duration mechanics tied to corpses, which often don't exist for very long in PVP. They also stay in the same spot. Bad mechanic.

I have no experience with the jankiness of the blast bones, but the reasons above make the class look very hard to get into unless you really like the scythe animation and skeleton gang RP.

Astin_nds · May 2023

festegios wrote: »

Is this a rant about pvp necro?

Pve and Pvp, the class.

Turtle_Bot · May 2023

Is this in regards to PvP or PvE?

Because while I completely agree with you that sorc has very good healing for PvE environments, that does not translate at all into PvP where the shields melt instantly, pets (bird) will always get focused down and dies very quickly, the mobility is not as strong as it used to be (especially for CP PvP) and pressure from enemies comes in much faster and much more frequently than it does in PvP and comes with a lot of stamina drain from CC.

In PvE, enemies will stand on your AoEs and not cleanse your sticky DoTs allowing crit surge to do its thing and heal you reliably and considerably while those shields are up and the pressure that would break those shields instantly (heavy attacks and mechanics) have long enough delays in between their occurrences that there is plenty of time for crit surge to heal you back up to full.

This does not happen in PvP where the pressure is much faster and comes with a lot of CC, shields also break much easier (thanks to the 55% reduction via battle spirit). Enemies also walk out of your AoEs and cleanse off any sticky DoTs (if they have access to a cleanse which thanks to Mara's Balm, all classes have) meaning crit surge is extremely unreliable as a heal over time for PvP and at most you will get 1 crit surge heal per 1-2 ability casts since DoTs aren't reliable enough to give you multiple heals (at least for now, got to wait and see what effect the changes to Mara's balm has on DoTs in PvP).

Combined with every class (even slow and tanky classes such as DK/plar/warden/cro) now having plenty of movement speed thanks to CP, jewelry traits, mythics, RaT, etc. and teleporting thanks to the new mist form, this heavily exposes sorcs lack of reliable healing in PvP, even with the buffed shields.

I can guarantee you that any sorc that looks like it has insane healing in PvP is having its healing completely carried by Mara's Balm. The classes built in healing is nowhere near as capable of carrying its healing like that even with access to vigor (BiS HoT) and shields.

Afterip · May 2023

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

You claim that Sorc is not so good at pvp, but if you play Necro , you will come to the opinion that Sorc is VERY good, even if compair mag or stam specs.

katorga · May 2023

Afterip wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

You claim that Sorc is not so good at pvp, but if you play Necro , you will come to the opinion that Sorc is VERY good, even if compair mag or stam specs.

Sorc is middling. Yes, better than Necro, but DK is an order of magnitude better than Sorc.

Either way Necro is completely ruined at this point.

Afterip · May 2023

katorga wrote: »

Sorc is middling. Yes, better than Necro, but DK is an order of magnitude better than Sorc.

Either way Necro is completely ruined at this point.

In my personal class-rank pvp system ill give: dk-10points, warden - 8points, nb-7 points, sorc-5, templar 3, necro -1

Pelanora · May 2023

Was Maras a cheap way to do a code fix, because actually fixing the code for each class is hard?

StarOfElyon · May 2023

Here are some ideas I have to help necros:

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Here are some ideas that I have to add some more utility to the skills on the class.

Hungry Scythe: also applies life steal to all enemies hit. (I think this still won't make the spammable very good for damage but at least it'll add to the use for survivability)

[Also, life steal should probably be tied to a status effect too]

Skeletal Arcanist/Archer: grants major sorcery/brutality when active.

Mystic/Detonating Syphon: grants major prophecy/savagery when slotted. Both morphs apply a damage over time to targets that stick to them after touching the tether.

Flame/Venom skull: applies burning/poisoned status effects. Does additional damage to targets afflicted with a status effect. No longer does increased damage on third cast but instead does increased damage on low health enemies.

Spirit Mender:
- Spirit Guardian: when active, applies major cowardice to attackers. (I just like the idea of the ghost scaring attackers.)
- Intensive Mender: increases the healing over a shorter period of time. (Buff the healing more please)

Bone Totem: summons an effigy of bones up to 28 meters away. After 1 second, the totem begins fearing nearby enemies every 2 seconds, causing them to cower in place for 4 seconds. (Changed to allow both morphs to be targeted)
- Warding Totem (Formerly Remote Totem): grants minor protection when standing in the area of effect.
- Agony Totem: afflicts enemies in the area of effect with minor vulnerability.

ULTIMATES:
Putrid Colossus (formerly Frozen Colossus): Unleash a decayed Flesh Colossus to pulverize enemies in the area. The Colossus smashes the ground three times over 3 seconds. Dealing damage applies Major Vulnerability to any enemy hit for 12 seconds.
- Frozen Colossus (formerly Glacial Colossus): does frost damage and freezes (stuns) enemies on the first hit instead of the third. (If a stun is too strong, the first hit can apply a strong snare instead)
- Pestilent Colossus: smashes the ground once and does disease damage. Afflicts enemies with a pestilence that does damage over time. (In PvP ultimates are all about burst and that's what necros lack so I tried to make the bursty part of these ultimates at the beginning of them)

Animate Blastbones: instead of resurrecting allies, this ultimate summons three blastbones to attack the nearest opponent. It consumes corpses in the area to summon up to three more blastbones. Summoned Blastbones are immune to being crowd controlled (other than by another ultimate). Reduce the cost of this ultimate to 200, down from 320, to make it more usable.

Mrtoobyy · May 2023

I think someone at ZOS paid everyone to not nerf DK the last couple of years. So the only thing they could nerf are all the other classes.

Imagine if ZOS didn't add a single new thing but they went over all old sets and adjusted them. Same goes for classes.
WOW that would be awesome! Clean up the game instead of putting new stuff in it

oorar · May 2023

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Here are some ideas I have to help necros:

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Here are some ideas that I have to add some more utility to the skills on the class.

Hungry Scythe: also applies life steal to all enemies hit. (I think this still won't make the spammable very good for damage but at least it'll add to the use for survivability)

[Also, life steal should probably be tied to a status effect too]

Skeletal Arcanist/Archer: grants major sorcery/brutality when active.

Mystic/Detonating Syphon: grants major prophecy/savagery when slotted. Both morphs apply a damage over time to targets that stick to them after touching the tether.

Flame/Venom skull: applies burning/poisoned status effects. Does additional damage to targets afflicted with a status effect. No longer does increased damage on third cast but instead does increased damage on low health enemies.

Spirit Mender:
- Spirit Guardian: when active, applies major cowardice to attackers. (I just like the idea of the ghost scaring attackers.)
- Intensive Mender: increases the healing over a shorter period of time. (Buff the healing more please)

Bone Totem: summons an effigy of bones up to 28 meters away. After 1 second, the totem begins fearing nearby enemies every 2 seconds, causing them to cower in place for 4 seconds. (Changed to allow both morphs to be targeted)
- Warding Totem (Formerly Remote Totem): grants minor protection when standing in the area of effect.
- Agony Totem: afflicts enemies in the area of effect with minor vulnerability.

ULTIMATES:
Putrid Colossus (formerly Frozen Colossus): Unleash a decayed Flesh Colossus to pulverize enemies in the area. The Colossus smashes the ground three times over 3 seconds. Dealing damage applies Major Vulnerability to any enemy hit for 12 seconds.
- Frozen Colossus (formerly Glacial Colossus): does frost damage and freezes (stuns) enemies on the first hit instead of the third. (If a stun is too strong, the first hit can apply a strong snare instead)
- Pestilent Colossus: smashes the ground once and does disease damage. Afflicts enemies with a pestilence that does damage over time. (In PvP ultimates are all about burst and that's what necros lack so I tried to make the bursty part of these ultimates at the beginning of them)

Animate Blastbones: instead of resurrecting allies, this ultimate summons three blastbones to attack the nearest opponent. It consumes corpses in the area to summon up to three more blastbones. Summoned Blastbones are immune to being crowd controlled (other than by another ultimate). Reduce the cost of this ultimate to 200, down from 320, to make it more usable.

Love these ideas. If any class needs a buff it's necromancer. Please Zenimax, do something to this forgotten class.

Turtle_Bot · May 2023

Afterip wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

You claim that Sorc is not so good at pvp, but if you play Necro , you will come to the opinion that Sorc is VERY good, even if compair mag or stam specs.

I'm not going to say sorc is worse than necro (it used to be, but not now), but sorc is nowhere near the top tiers for PvP.

DK, NB and warden are all miles ahead of sorc who is close to plar with cro behind.

If I had to rate the classes using your points system it would be
- DK 10
- NB 8 (would be 10 or higher in the hands of a good player but most NB are below average at best)
- warden 8 (DK just with less damage)
- sorc 5
- plar 5
- cro 1

Overall sorc is about a 5, on level with plar but for different reasons, plar has good survivability but little burst threat, sorc has lots of damage but very little survivability (outside of Mara's balm). If I were to separate the sorc specs, mag would be a 3-4 and stam/hybrid would be 5-6

Main reason sorc looks stronger than plar is because all the average sorcs switched to NB/DK/warden or left PvP and switched to PvE HA builds, so only the truly diehard sorcs are left playing the class in PvP and they are naturally really good at the class making it look way stronger than it actually is. I guarantee, put most players still on sorc onto a better class like a NB/DK/warden and that class would look like an 11 or 12.

Afterip · May 2023

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

...

Magsorc could be really bad now, but Stamsorc with destro staff and twin slashes with camohunter first bar very stron in pvp, becouse with ~30% crit there is every second proc of Surge by crit dots. For comparison, my spirit at 5k wpd heals by ~1.3k every 2 seconds, Surge at 5k wpd heals ~2.2k every second proced by crit dots. So stamsorc with dots will be so defensive as a templar or prob better.
And with future nerf of Mara's set, StamDOTsorc will get more power in pvp and will be very close to DK, warden and NB...

nokturnihs · May 2023

Afterip wrote: »

You forgot our passive offensive abilities, because they are so poor and underpowered:

Death Knell - Increases your critical strike chance against enemies under 25% health by 8% for each Gravelord ability slotted.
(75% targets life its disable and when target has ~5k hp you will have +8%!! crit lol)

Dismember - While a Gravelord ability is active, your spell and physical penetration are increased by 1500.
(wow, so HUGE pen bonus if our blastbones active, because our mage/archer useless *** with no damage)

Rapid Rot - Increases your damage done with damage over time effects by 10%
(this is my winner, because necro dont have class dots)

I think class deserve to rework, but @ZOS dont care about it...

Rapid rot should be boosting siphon, graveyard, Dot from the vampire ultimate clone... It's more like a slap in the face considering how tickly most of those are without some considerable tinkering but they DO have class DoTs... They're not anywhere near the least of the DK dots though...

Astin_nds · May 2023

I keep wondering why after this last tweak, a major sorcery to necromancer has still not been added, this is very very stupid.
It's the ONLY class without access to a major sorcery / brutality. IT WOULD MAKE MY LIFE SO MUCH EASIER to have a major sorcery.

The siphon could give the effect of major sorcery and the magicka version and the stmin version has brutality or both, style while you extract the force from the corpse you get major sorcery and brtutality .

Call me crazy but I see it as EXTREMELY BAD, UGLY, BROKEN, SPOILED, BADLY DONE, that it is the only class without access to any major bonus is this extremist.

Afterip · May 2023

There is 3 patchs left and necro should get somethin in this 3 weeks, even nerf will be good, because it will be possible to drop this project and go to another one...

Faulgor · May 2023

Astin_nds wrote: »

I keep wondering why after this last tweak, a major sorcery to necromancer has still not been added, this is very very stupid.
It's the ONLY class without access to a major sorcery / brutality. IT WOULD MAKE MY LIFE SO MUCH EASIER to have a major sorcery.

The siphon could give the effect of major sorcery and the magicka version and the stmin version has brutality or both, style while you extract the force from the corpse you get major sorcery and brtutality .

Call me crazy but I see it as EXTREMELY BAD, UGLY, BROKEN, SPOILED, BADLY DONE, that it is the only class without access to any major bonus is this extremist.

That is only technically correct, as I suspect no Templar gets their Major Sorcerery from Biting Jabs.

But yeah, Oakensoul feels kinda mandatory on Necro just to get all those buffs out of the way.

necro_the_crafter · May 2023

Necro lacks identity.

Half of our bar is skills from weapon\guild\armor skillines. Class also doesnot have acsess to most offensive buffs other classes have (brutality, sorcery, prophecy, savagery, berserk).

Necros own class skills have a minor unique bonuses for slotting, but you dont have bar space for them, because you have to run skills like degeneration, elemental suseptability, camo hunter, RaT, etc.

Only half-realible cc is stamina scythe, but reqires you to land a heavy-attack to an enemy that can be blocked or dodged.

Seeng now arcanist spammable AoE (tentacles) having so much secondary effects begs the question, why necro scythe isnt treated that way? It now seems heavily undepreforming compared to arcanist.

Arcanist tentacles can generate crux(read corpses), can spend crux, roots target hit, can be morphed into execute+heal or to apply uniqe major vulnerabilty debuff.

Mag scythe heals, stam scythe heals, offbalances, and apllies hemmorage. Doesnot interract with corpses. Worse dps and utility then weapon aoe spammables:
Cleave is better (especially with masters), one morph gives more surviveabilty, other applies dot that scales from rapid rot,
Whirling blade is better damage(and nice buff with asylum dw),
Impulse better damage(minor mangle, or range plus unique interaction based on element, also dot proc from BRP staff).

And there is a lot of other spells and passives that much worse than other classes counterparts.
I cant understand why devs doesnt do anything to adress this issues. Back in a day when we had a clear identity issues(especially on stam specs) they were adressed, all the classes received a bunch of stamina morphs.

Right now we have only one class that is not a necromancer, its a crafter with funny exploisive skeleton, and patch after patch no effort to address it, only nerfs to available (very niche) playstyle, and nothing to replace it.

necro_the_crafter · May 2023

Also if you look at scythe from health scaling heal perspective, its not good ethier.

Other tanks dont require a bunch of targets to proc their heals, and have some kind of utility on them:

Dk's have huge burst heal with endurance and minor vitality buffs (coag/dragonblood),
Warden have cc and chance to proc brittle or heal another target(arctic blast\polar wind),
Sorc clannfear trigers bunch of passives for regens and health pool,
Nbs have minor protection and huge tooltip(if standing still),
Templar have a decent heal on their armor buff as a secondary effect.

Stamina morph of scythe provides AoE off-balance which is nice, but noone slots exploiter to benefit from it anyways. And a hemmoraging status doesnt provide any utility either, if it was atleast chilled it would make sense to run it with frost staff to apply brittle, or sundered to have aoe minor breach.

Magicka morph only have a hot attached to it. No comments.

miteba · May 2023

What are you guys talking about???? Necromancer is awesome as it is...

My magcro can SOLO all world bosses in Stros M'kai, Khenarthi's Root and Bleackrock Isle.

CameraBeardThePirate · May 2023

miteba wrote: »

What are you guys talking about???? Necromancer is awesome as it is...

My magro can SOLO all world bosses in Stros M'kai, Khenarthi's Root and Bleackrock Isle.

Necro used to be a solo PvP machine too, but now you're pretty much SOL unless you have a team to buff you

Astin_nds · May 2023

miteba wrote: »

What are you guys talking about???? Necromancer is awesome as it is...

My magcro can SOLO all world bosses in Stros M'kai, Khenarthi's Root and Bleackrock Isle.

... All classes can do it... and to much better than necro
All clases can make SOLO .... this is not a reason for "Necro its good" XDD

miteba · May 2023

miteba wrote: »

My magcro can SOLO all world bosses in Stros M'kai, Khenarthi's Root and Bleackrock Isle.

Astin_nds wrote: »

... All classes can do it... and to much better than necro
All clases can make SOLO .... this is not a reason for "Necro its good" XDD

I was being sarcastic!

There are no world bosses at starter islands.

That said, my main templar could be on a better shape ... but then i remember my necros ... and i feel blessed again.