The 'Fake Tank' issue

GlacialMaw · May 2023

I've always seen fake tanks in ESO but recently I've been getting one every other dungeon. This is incredibly demotivating in harder dungeons (especially the newer DLC dungeons) where a tank is a necessity. I understand wanting to clear the content quicker, but that does not work when you are then missing an integral member of the team. One possible way to reduce this issue is to split the queues. Mind you that this does not reduce the number of fake tanks, but I know that there are a lot of fake tanks who only want to do the base game dungeons, get dropped into a DLC dungeon and then instantly leave because they know they cannot clear the content. Or worse, the fake tank tries to do the content and keeps failing because he is not playing the role he is supposed to.

Also, another minor suggestion unrelated to the fake tanking. Bring the pledge quests in line with one another. I've noticed that several quests require you to kill key bosses, whereas others simply state 'complete [dungeon name]'. It would be great if all dungeons had the same structure of pledge quests. Nothing is more frustrating than having to run a dungeon twice because the first time the team was already halfway through the dungeon and you missed one of the earlier bosses (which means people will leave the second dungeon once they kill the remaining boss they needed).

I'd like to hear the thoughts of the community on this

LunaFlora · May 2023

a dungeon being rushed or being chaos because of a fake tank is frustrating in all dungeons unless you formed a group like that on purpose in which case someone probably has a taunt anyways

Northwold · May 2023

I only solo dungeons but from the number of complaints of fake tanks, it does make me wonder: why don't the people complaining about it just play as tanks? Maybe I'm misinterpreting the complaints, but it strikes me that you have a whole load of people who want to play as damage dealers and virtually no one tanking.

Necrotech_Master · May 2023

the non-dlc ones are the ones that require you to kill a series of bosses, while most dlc ones just require you to complete the dungeon

personally i dont care if someone is a fake tank as long as they can survive and taunt things

if they cant, they will end up dying, and i likely wont because i dont build glass cannons lol

my main problem with queues is that if you queue as anything OTHER than a tank, then the queue takes forever

LunaFlora · May 2023

Northwold wrote: »

I only solo dungeons but from the number of complaints of fake tanks, it does make me wonder: why don't the people complaining about it just play as tanks? Maybe I'm misinterpreting the complaints, but it strikes me that you have a whole load of people who want to play as damage dealers and virtually no one tanking.

i do most often play as a tank for random dungeons. and often i then get a fake healer which is also bad. i've started using winter's respite as a second set for those situations, but i shouldn't have to attempt to be both roles

valenwood_vegan · May 2023

These threads do pop up a LOT.

IMHO, random people thrown into a group are rarely going to meet expectations. They're completely random strangers. The way you want to run the dungeon may be just as annoying to them as the way they want to run the dungeon is to you.

It's a bit like going out on the street in the middle of a big city and shouting "who wants to join my baseball team?" And then just taking whoever responds. You MIGHT happen to get the next Babe Ruth, but you're also not likely to get what you're looking for that way.

Many different types of changes could be made to the group finder (ie: allowing people to specify things they are looking for - speed run... role doesn't matter... story run... base game vs DLC... enforcing "roles" in some way...) - but the more you filter the groups, the slower the group finder will be. And then we're back here with new complaints, so I'm not sure how this problem can be fixed in that way.

I suggest finding like-minded players to run with as a way of avoiding the randomness of random strangers.

A group finder feature that allows you to say... post what you're looking for and then players can respond to your post and you can communicate with them ahead of time and form a pre-made group... could be a helpful way to get around the randomness problem. But then it also wouldn't be quick and effortless like the group-finder. Really hard to have it both ways.

Almakor · May 2023

Some adjustments to Finder has to be made.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7864256#Comment_7864256

GlacialMaw · May 2023

I know splitting the queue is not a great solution as it would lead to longer queue times. For me the queue times have never been an issue (usually get in in 5 min or less), but right now the problem is that you enter a dungeon, you get a fake tank and they either leave immediately (meaning you have to wait for another tank to join or find one yourselves) or they try and fail, causing you to have to abandon the dungeon. That way nothing gets finished. And I understand that this is not a universal experience of people, but I've seen enough people complain about it that it at least warrants attention

Ragnarok0130 · June 2023

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

These threads do pop up a LOT.

IMHO, random people thrown into a group are rarely going to meet expectations. They're completely random strangers. The way you want to run the dungeon may be just as annoying to them as the way they want to run the dungeon is to you.
.

There's a vast difference between not meeting expectations and outright fake queuing for a role you have no intention of fulfilling ruining the experience for everyone else. One is possible a learning issue and the other is just self centered and toxic.

valenwood_vegan · June 2023

Lol I'm certainly not defending that sort of behavior, just saying that random people = random results.

Dreaders123 · June 2023

Healer view. You get fake tanks who have a taunt, and fake tanks who don't. I can keep the former alive usually. The latter? Well my healer build for PUGs has a taunt and a shield slotted because when no tank has the aggro they sure love going for the healer. I also have a hybrid healer/dps if the problem is there instead.

Armory Assistant was the best crown I ever spent.

Braffin · June 2023

Well, it's the same solution as ever for this problem: Either go in dungeons with a premade group or be prepared to do the job for yourself

It's not that hard to "tank" in normal dungeons, just equip a taunt and some defensive skills and it's done. And I don't believe there are many "fake tanks" in veteran mode tbh.

KaGaOri · June 2023

Northwold wrote: »

I only solo dungeons but from the number of complaints of fake tanks, it does make me wonder: why don't the people complaining about it just play as tanks? Maybe I'm misinterpreting the complaints, but it strikes me that you have a whole load of people who want to play as damage dealers and virtually no one tanking.

Because for average player tanking is much harder. Whole overland has players practising dealing damage, so they can go in dungeon with more or less same build and play the way they are most used to. Players are never required to tank outside of dungeons and tanks have to use different builds for dungeons nad overland (or have horrible time in overland).

So, to tank dungeon player goes in on build he isn't all that familiar with and has to do something he has next to none practise doing. Also tanks are expected to know layout of the dungeon and all mechanics and they can't afford make any mistakes, or the group will wipe. All that while been mercilessly judged by three other strangers. Doesn't sound fun, now does it?

As result of above a lot of players won't even try tanking. The fact, that high level toons can solo normal dungeons, will speedrun trough them and won't let tank do their job, makes this worse. Beginner tanks having nowhere to practise tanking (or having to bend backwards for chance to do so) means much less tanks in harder content.

Dreaders123 · June 2023

Braffin wrote: »

Well, it's the same solution as ever for this problem: Either go in dungeons with a premade group or be prepared to do the job for yourself

It's not that hard to "tank" in normal dungeons, just equip a taunt and some defensive skills and it's done. And I don't believe there are many "fake tanks" in veteran mode tbh.

We.........totally agree!!!!

Dreaders123 · June 2023

KaGaOri wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

I only solo dungeons but from the number of complaints of fake tanks, it does make me wonder: why don't the people complaining about it just play as tanks? Maybe I'm misinterpreting the complaints, but it strikes me that you have a whole load of people who want to play as damage dealers and virtually no one tanking.

Because for average player tanking is much harder. Whole overland has players practising dealing damage, so they can go in dungeon with more or less same build and play the way they are most used to. Players are never required to tank outside of dungeons and tanks have to use different builds for dungeons nad overland (or have horrible time in overland).

So, to tank dungeon player goes in on build he isn't all that familiar with and has to do something he has next to none practise doing. Also tanks are expected to know layout of the dungeon and all mechanics and they can't afford make any mistakes, or the group will wipe. All that while been mercilessly judged by three other strangers. Doesn't sound fun, now does it?

As result of above a lot of players won't even try tanking. The fact, that high level toons can solo normal dungeons, will speedrun trough them and won't let tank do their job, makes this worse. Beginner tanks having nowhere to practise tanking (or having to bend backwards for chance to do so) means much less tanks in harder content.

I would caveat for DLC. Level 45 for those with ESO+ and learning a tank and who take responsibility seriously, is a nightmare.