The excuses for no pvp content are getting old

spartaxoxo · April 2023

I mean a global pandemic happened too. They got new servers parts are upgrading their servers and are doing a massive performance project that would take any company a long time to finish.

Game development can take years sometimes.

gummy292 · April 2023

I would like to add one game type to your list, from lost ark. This is a game type of 3v3 but from each team only 1 player is playing at a time while the other 2 teammates are just watching. Compare it with a pokemon battle where the winner keeps playing and the loser is being tapped out by a team mate. Its a awesome game mode wich many players in lost ark play for hundreds of hours.

Pvp is what made eso unique when it first came out. Pvp is the only true endgame.
and it fits perfectly in the new communicated strategy of creating more endless/repeatable content.

Add some sort of pvp battle pass and zos has her new cashcow.

Jaraal · April 2023

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

No big secret, but pvp is only a liability to Zos, they can't monetize it so why bother.

Zos would only be relieved if Cyro would be completely empty.

There's a higher ratio of radiant apex mounts, arms packs, polymorphs, and expensive outfit styles in Cyrodiil than anywhere else in the game.

It's in ZOS's best financial interests to keep PvPers around as much as possible.

Wolfkeks · April 2023

ZOS could think about adding a battle pass as others have mentioned or new Alliance ranks with a mount or something like that attached to it.

That would at least give us something to work forward to/kill the time until they can add more to Cyrodiil.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 2023

Somber97866 wrote: »

They just made you your own special pvp class in the arcanist and your gonna grip about no pvp content? Sheesh what do you pvp'ers want? Really !

How on earth do you suppose the Arcanist is a "PvP" class? It's just a class - no different from the rest. It also does not count as PvP content.

Wuduwasa13 · April 2023

Somber97866 wrote: »

They just made you your own special pvp class in the arcanist and your gonna grip about no pvp content? Sheesh what do you pvp'ers want? Really !

A cyrodil where I can bar swap, execute skills without a 2 sec delay, get through keep doors & where I don’t enter random loading screens whilst riding along. Oh and most crucial, that won’t suffer endless crash waves that end up costing you your keep or losing you one you’re attacking.

ADarklore · April 2023

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

PvP is an addon at best at this point. Don't expect it to ever get much attention thankfully.

Please stop with the "I hate PvP so it's good ZOS isn't supporting it" comments.

Remember this?

Yeah, and it's a memory from long ago too. The game is almost ten years old, so what was said about the game at the beginning certainly CAN and HAS changed. I also remember that they planned for the game to be a group-focused MMO, what happened to that? REALITY happened. They found the players they thought would flock to the game, didn't, and those that did, were not interested in group content. So they had to change the game to focus on those players who DID want to play the game. So yet another 'selling point' of the game at launch was dropped in favor of shifting the focus of the game to match the reality of the players.

Let's be real... their PVP concept was over-ambitious to start, considering the game was built an on already outdated engine. I believe they hoped the PVP side would work out, but clearly it didn't. They have tried for YEARS to improve it, but haven't had much success. At some point people have to accept that it cannot be improved without completely re-writing the game on a newer engine, which just won't happen.

ProudMary · April 2023

ADarklore wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

PvP is an addon at best at this point. Don't expect it to ever get much attention thankfully.

Please stop with the "I hate PvP so it's good ZOS isn't supporting it" comments.

Remember this?

Yeah, and it's a memory from long ago too. The game is almost ten years old, so what was said about the game at the beginning certainly CAN and HAS changed. I also remember that they planned for the game to be a group-focused MMO, what happened to that? REALITY happened. They found the players they thought would flock to the game, didn't, and those that did, were not interested in group content. So they had to change the game to focus on those players who DID want to play the game. So yet another 'selling point' of the game at launch was dropped in favor of shifting the focus of the game to match the reality of the players.

Let's be real... their PVP concept was over-ambitious to start, considering the game was built an on already outdated engine. I believe they hoped the PVP side would work out, but clearly it didn't. They have tried for YEARS to improve it, but haven't had much success. At some point people have to accept that it cannot be improved without completely re-writing the game on a newer engine, which just won't happen.

Have they tried to improve PvP though? To me it seems that their investment in the PvP side of the game is now and always has been, since about 2017 anyway, declining on the part of ZOS. Other than replacing the servers with newer blades, which was probably more a decision made because they'd be able to get away with fewer blades and therefore less recurring costs, what has ZOS done to support PvP since 2017? (I'm referring to Cyrodiil PvP)

VaranisArano · April 2023

ProudMary wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

PvP is an addon at best at this point. Don't expect it to ever get much attention thankfully.

Please stop with the "I hate PvP so it's good ZOS isn't supporting it" comments.

Remember this?

Yeah, and it's a memory from long ago too. The game is almost ten years old, so what was said about the game at the beginning certainly CAN and HAS changed. I also remember that they planned for the game to be a group-focused MMO, what happened to that? REALITY happened. They found the players they thought would flock to the game, didn't, and those that did, were not interested in group content. So they had to change the game to focus on those players who DID want to play the game. So yet another 'selling point' of the game at launch was dropped in favor of shifting the focus of the game to match the reality of the players.

Let's be real... their PVP concept was over-ambitious to start, considering the game was built an on already outdated engine. I believe they hoped the PVP side would work out, but clearly it didn't. They have tried for YEARS to improve it, but haven't had much success. At some point people have to accept that it cannot be improved without completely re-writing the game on a newer engine, which just won't happen.

Have they tried to improve PvP though? To me it seems that their investment in the PvP side of the game is now and always has been, since about 2017 anyway, declining on the part of ZOS. Other than replacing the servers with newer blades, which was probably more a decision made because they'd be able to get away with fewer blades and therefore less recurring costs, what has ZOS done to support PvP since 2017? (I'm referring to Cyrodiil PvP)

ZOS ran a whole bunch of tests in 2020-21 trying various suggestions to try to figure out what was causing the issues. They found out there wasn't an easy silver bullet.

One of those tests found out that no-proc campaigns didn't improve performance but were popular enough that ZOS now offers that option.

FeedbackOnly · April 2023

New battleground map

Holiday special monsters in imperial city

Guild traders inside of cydrolli castles

Dueling arenas

Siege war mode

CameraBeardThePirate · April 2023

VaranisArano wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

PvP is an addon at best at this point. Don't expect it to ever get much attention thankfully.

Please stop with the "I hate PvP so it's good ZOS isn't supporting it" comments.

Remember this?

Yeah, and it's a memory from long ago too. The game is almost ten years old, so what was said about the game at the beginning certainly CAN and HAS changed. I also remember that they planned for the game to be a group-focused MMO, what happened to that? REALITY happened. They found the players they thought would flock to the game, didn't, and those that did, were not interested in group content. So they had to change the game to focus on those players who DID want to play the game. So yet another 'selling point' of the game at launch was dropped in favor of shifting the focus of the game to match the reality of the players.

Let's be real... their PVP concept was over-ambitious to start, considering the game was built an on already outdated engine. I believe they hoped the PVP side would work out, but clearly it didn't. They have tried for YEARS to improve it, but haven't had much success. At some point people have to accept that it cannot be improved without completely re-writing the game on a newer engine, which just won't happen.

Have they tried to improve PvP though? To me it seems that their investment in the PvP side of the game is now and always has been, since about 2017 anyway, declining on the part of ZOS. Other than replacing the servers with newer blades, which was probably more a decision made because they'd be able to get away with fewer blades and therefore less recurring costs, what has ZOS done to support PvP since 2017? (I'm referring to Cyrodiil PvP)

ZOS ran a whole bunch of tests in 2020-21 trying various suggestions to try to figure out what was causing the issues. They found out there wasn't an easy silver bullet.

One of those tests found out that no-proc campaigns didn't improve performance but were popular enough that ZOS now offers that option.

Too bad they don't have a single official list anywhere on which sets are or aren't considered procs.

Jaraal · April 2023

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

PvP is an addon at best at this point. Don't expect it to ever get much attention thankfully.

Please stop with the "I hate PvP so it's good ZOS isn't supporting it" comments.

Remember this?

Yeah, and it's a memory from long ago too. The game is almost ten years old, so what was said about the game at the beginning certainly CAN and HAS changed. I also remember that they planned for the game to be a group-focused MMO, what happened to that? REALITY happened. They found the players they thought would flock to the game, didn't, and those that did, were not interested in group content. So they had to change the game to focus on those players who DID want to play the game. So yet another 'selling point' of the game at launch was dropped in favor of shifting the focus of the game to match the reality of the players.

Let's be real... their PVP concept was over-ambitious to start, considering the game was built an on already outdated engine. I believe they hoped the PVP side would work out, but clearly it didn't. They have tried for YEARS to improve it, but haven't had much success. At some point people have to accept that it cannot be improved without completely re-writing the game on a newer engine, which just won't happen.

Have they tried to improve PvP though? To me it seems that their investment in the PvP side of the game is now and always has been, since about 2017 anyway, declining on the part of ZOS. Other than replacing the servers with newer blades, which was probably more a decision made because they'd be able to get away with fewer blades and therefore less recurring costs, what has ZOS done to support PvP since 2017? (I'm referring to Cyrodiil PvP)

ZOS ran a whole bunch of tests in 2020-21 trying various suggestions to try to figure out what was causing the issues. They found out there wasn't an easy silver bullet.

One of those tests found out that no-proc campaigns didn't improve performance but were popular enough that ZOS now offers that option.

Too bad they don't have a single official list anywhere on which sets are or aren't considered procs.

It's possible that they don't actually know. There are still plenty of sets in the game that don't adhere to stated "rules."

thesarahandcompany · April 2023

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

PvP is an addon at best at this point. Don't expect it to ever get much attention thankfully.

Please stop with the "I hate PvP so it's good ZOS isn't supporting it" comments.

Remember this?

Yeah, and it's a memory from long ago too. The game is almost ten years old, so what was said about the game at the beginning certainly CAN and HAS changed. I also remember that they planned for the game to be a group-focused MMO, what happened to that? REALITY happened. They found the players they thought would flock to the game, didn't, and those that did, were not interested in group content. So they had to change the game to focus on those players who DID want to play the game. So yet another 'selling point' of the game at launch was dropped in favor of shifting the focus of the game to match the reality of the players.

Let's be real... their PVP concept was over-ambitious to start, considering the game was built an on already outdated engine. I believe they hoped the PVP side would work out, but clearly it didn't. They have tried for YEARS to improve it, but haven't had much success. At some point people have to accept that it cannot be improved without completely re-writing the game on a newer engine, which just won't happen.

Have they tried to improve PvP though? To me it seems that their investment in the PvP side of the game is now and always has been, since about 2017 anyway, declining on the part of ZOS. Other than replacing the servers with newer blades, which was probably more a decision made because they'd be able to get away with fewer blades and therefore less recurring costs, what has ZOS done to support PvP since 2017? (I'm referring to Cyrodiil PvP)

ZOS ran a whole bunch of tests in 2020-21 trying various suggestions to try to figure out what was causing the issues. They found out there wasn't an easy silver bullet.

One of those tests found out that no-proc campaigns didn't improve performance but were popular enough that ZOS now offers that option.

Too bad they don't have a single official list anywhere on which sets are or aren't considered procs.

Almost every set in ESO is a proc.

YandereGirlfriend · April 2023

At the very least we need some Double AP events for CYRODIIL.

Some junior programmer could have that ready to test on the PTS in like half an hour.

SeaGtGruff · April 2023

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

At the very least we need some Double AP events for CYRODIIL.

Some junior programmer could have that ready to test on the PTS in like half an hour.

Do you mean like the next two scheduled events for May and June?

KiltMaster · April 2023

I would love any and every addition that OP had suggested. Literally anything. PVP is starved for some new updates for a looooong time.

You don't have to like PVP to recognize that 90% of the game is PVE.

But people will still *** about anything PVP because they don't like it, without realizing that more people enjoy PVP than they think.

KiltMaster · April 2023

@SeaGtGruff you're right - we get 2 events a year

whoop de doo lol

I don't think that compensates for lack of new pvp updates tho

SeaGtGruff · April 2023

KiltMaster wrote: »

@SeaGtGruff you're right - we get 2 events a year

whoop de doo lol

I don't think that compensates for lack of new pvp updates tho

Yeah, and to be honest, they're my two favorite events, even though I'm lousy at PvP.

I'm not sure if there's any way for them to modify/update Cyrodiil, but I love that zone-- usually for doing the PvE quests, but I also enjoy getting bloody in the Alliance War, even if it's usually my own blood.

Jammy420 · April 2023

Exactly, and now that the servers are performing fine, there are no more excuses to either reimagine cyro and give it a massive face lift, or bring something new [snip]

[edited for profanity bypass]

Jammy420 · April 2023

Four_Fingers wrote: »

I keep dreading the day they announce that they are no longer supporting PvP in the game as we know it.
The lack of support may be the handwriting on the wall, hope I am wrong.

They wont, because more players play a little bit of everything, versus those who only play one thing. It would be the death of the game for people like me who have been around since beta and have spent thousands of euros on the store and for the sub.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I mean a global pandemic happened too. They got new servers parts are upgrading their servers and are doing a massive performance project that would take any company a long time to finish.

Game development can take years sometimes.

Lesser companies did more in less times, thats really a cop out to be fair.

ADarklore wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

PvP is an addon at best at this point. Don't expect it to ever get much attention thankfully.

Please stop with the "I hate PvP so it's good ZOS isn't supporting it" comments.

Remember this?

Yeah, and it's a memory from long ago too. The game is almost ten years old, so what was said about the game at the beginning certainly CAN and HAS changed. I also remember that they planned for the game to be a group-focused MMO, what happened to that? REALITY happened. They found the players they thought would flock to the game, didn't, and those that did, were not interested in group content. So they had to change the game to focus on those players who DID want to play the game. So yet another 'selling point' of the game at launch was dropped in favor of shifting the focus of the game to match the reality of the players.

Let's be real... their PVP concept was over-ambitious to start, considering the game was built an on already outdated engine. I believe they hoped the PVP side would work out, but clearly it didn't. They have tried for YEARS to improve it, but haven't had much success. At some point people have to accept that it cannot be improved without completely re-writing the game on a newer engine, which just won't happen.

PvP got worse because they ignored the performance problem for nearly a decade. Not for any other reason.

VaranisArano wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

PvP is an addon at best at this point. Don't expect it to ever get much attention thankfully.

Please stop with the "I hate PvP so it's good ZOS isn't supporting it" comments.

Remember this?

Yeah, and it's a memory from long ago too. The game is almost ten years old, so what was said about the game at the beginning certainly CAN and HAS changed. I also remember that they planned for the game to be a group-focused MMO, what happened to that? REALITY happened. They found the players they thought would flock to the game, didn't, and those that did, were not interested in group content. So they had to change the game to focus on those players who DID want to play the game. So yet another 'selling point' of the game at launch was dropped in favor of shifting the focus of the game to match the reality of the players.

Let's be real... their PVP concept was over-ambitious to start, considering the game was built an on already outdated engine. I believe they hoped the PVP side would work out, but clearly it didn't. They have tried for YEARS to improve it, but haven't had much success. At some point people have to accept that it cannot be improved without completely re-writing the game on a newer engine, which just won't happen.

Have they tried to improve PvP though? To me it seems that their investment in the PvP side of the game is now and always has been, since about 2017 anyway, declining on the part of ZOS. Other than replacing the servers with newer blades, which was probably more a decision made because they'd be able to get away with fewer blades and therefore less recurring costs, what has ZOS done to support PvP since 2017? (I'm referring to Cyrodiil PvP)

ZOS ran a whole bunch of tests in 2020-21 trying various suggestions to try to figure out what was causing the issues. They found out there wasn't an easy silver bullet.

One of those tests found out that no-proc campaigns didn't improve performance but were popular enough that ZOS now offers that option.

Yes, except everyone with any knowledge of the game told them none of them would work, they were just financial cop outs. They didnt listen, we couldve avoided the whole 2017-2023 performance issues if they would have just LISTENED to people.

AndreNoir wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

You don't have to like PVP to recognize that 90% of the game is PVE.

[snip]

[snip]

Now however we have new servers, people are coming back to pvp, and development and support for pvp will most likely take off again, there would be no other reason to replace the server hardware.

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

ADarklore · April 2023

I disagree that they were "unwilling to invest into systems to fix PVP". People keep forgetting that ESO is written on an engine that was already outdated when it launched. The ONLY WAY to fix this is to completely re-write the game on a newer engine, which yes, in that case they are unwilling to invest in re-writing the entire game; there can be no other fix besides a new engine. This is why they are trying every little thing they can do to free up resources just to add a new class. The engine is taxed to the max and new servers or hardware upgrades will never fix that.

Also, they adjusted their focus for the majority of the players who were playing the game. Players don't know the numbers, but ZOS does, so clearly they'd have a better idea of where to invest their resources. As Rich stated before, they changed the game in One Tamriel because they realized that the majority of players wanted "Skyrim with friends" and not a traditional group-based MMO. So yes, they followed the money trail because they are a business first and foremost.

Pepegrillos · April 2023

I would ask anyone who still expects things for pvp in this game to look at the following:

The current marketing of the game.
General, although never entirely explicit, negative attitudes towards pvp by you know who.
General, explicit negative attitudes towards pvp by most of the immediate circle of content creators, some of which are part of official game campaigns.
Lack of any meaningful pvp content in years.

At some point, you have to take the hint. The writing is and has been on the wall for multiple years. If at this point anyone expects anything pvp-wise from this game, it's on you.

Tandor · April 2023

There's a new class coming imminently which should offer something different for PvPers as well as PvEers. What is the feedback on the PTS about the class from a PvP perspective?

Elsonso · April 2023

Jammy420 wrote: »

Now however we have new servers, people are coming back to pvp, and development and support for pvp will most likely take off again, there would be no other reason to replace the server hardware.

The stated reason to replace the server hardware is that it is old and prone to failure. The hardware is 10 years old and may not even be supported by the people who made it. Poor performing code will run better on newer hardware, but that is just a brute force solution. The real fix is to make the software not poor performing.

ZDunlain · April 2023

Tandor wrote: »

There's a new class coming imminently which should offer something different for PvPers as well as PvEers. What is the feedback on the PTS about the class from a PvP perspective?

You will be doing the same things but with a dif class... It is like PvE only have one trial. You will be doing the same trial but with different characters lol, not too difficult to understand imo.

KiltMaster · April 2023

AndreNoir wrote: »

KiltMaster wrote: »

You don't have to like PVP to recognize that 90% of the game is PVE.

[snip]

You didn't hurt my feelings. But you'd have to be seriously rage-blinded by PVPers if you think that PVE and PVP are treated equally (as in, same amount of content) in this game

[edited to remove quote]

Vetixio · April 2023

If they give PvP too much attention they tend to get backlash, which is frustrating as many PvP players have stuck with game through all the tests in 2020-2021 and the lag, proc cheese etc and would be happy with another double ap event at this point.

ZOS_Icy · April 2023

Greetings,

We have removed some insulting back and forth that was disruptive. Please ensure you are treating others with respect on the forums even when they have views that differ from your own. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding.

KiltMaster · April 2023

nah I think it's valid to leave it on there to see how the community really feels about a whole entire aspect of the player base

But OK

Parasaurolophus · April 2023

What a kind of new pvp content you want to see? New classes and new sets it is a new pvp content