If you look at other HMs (I just browsed through Xalvakka HM logs), you do see warden DDs, although it's still not many. I think Taleria still has the bug where shalks won't usually hit, so people are probably less likely to run wardens there. I'm not saying that wardens as DDs are in good shape, just that your example is probably the worst case scenario.

And after all this, in the new patch they will up the DK... And what exactly is the reason? maybe you should forget about all the classes then? DK shows himself to be the strongest class in the game every 2nd or even every patch. But no, they will continue to strengthen it. Well then, take Warden's combat skills and say straight out that it will only be a support class in the role of a tank or a healer. I will leave you immediately and move on to another class. Do not label yourself or others Zos

miguelcura wrote: »

I was thinking exactly the same. They have to make all classes desirable as DPS, the "play all roles" is greatly reduced when we go to hardcore veterans and veterans. It is an aberration that 3 necros are wanted, guardians are not wanted, the rosters and the leading raids really leave a lot to be desired. They should put a buff on each role of each class that makes them desirable and necessary, otherwise all 3 roles are a lie, guardian is heal, tank dk, sorcerer and nb are dps...and there is never a variance RPG . My dps warden is my main and whenever I sign up for a roster they ask me to switch to necro or another class and the truth is that it takes away the desire to do raids.

What is a guardian -- templar?

If ZOS gave us a class change token, I would also gladly leave this Wanden already and become an Arcanist. After all, on Warden I have closed all the quests, collected all the skyshards, and a high pvp rank. Starting all over again is not very interesting. And I will not do this because the class is bad. everyone just forgot about it. It's just a support now. as a DD he is dead. This only applies to PVE. All is well in PVP.

You don’t need Shalks to run Warden and get good DPS. Anything over 40k is more than enough in any and all content. So if you can comfortably hit say 70k without Shalks you should have no problem killing anything…. That does not negate the point that the bug needs fixing however.

Otrocious wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

You don’t need Shalks to run Warden and get good DPS. Anything over 40k is more than enough in any and all content. So if you can comfortably hit say 70k without Shalks you should have no problem killing anything…. That does not negate the point that the bug needs fixing however.

Okay, but if the raid leader were to choose between 100+k damage and 70+ damage, who do you think he would choose? The problem is that no matter how hard you try to deal damage with a warden, you can't catch up with DK. And the next patch, I remind you, it will be even stronger

DK is a mess in terms of identity. Yes they are strong but the have weird skills like stonefist being a heal and so on. They really need to take a closer look at the DK kit and give it some sense of order. Now if raid leader is only choosing the highest DPS people to run, then you should find another raid group to run with. And if it’s your guild only running with the top DPS folks. Then I would leave and find a guild that runs often and is willing to take people who meet a minimum for runs which should not exceed 40k if they are a reasonable guild.
On another note, big guilds generally have enough people to run multiple raid teams. Failing that, make yourself the raid leader and set up your own run.

As for toons hitting 100k plus. That’s just a consequence of power creep over the years. As I’ve said in other posts 30k was considered very good at one point and that was the days of Vet Hard mode Maw. 100k is way overpowered for how difficult the content is. This is evidenced by strategies that completely circumvent mechanics in a lot of content. So there are two solutions:

1. Buff other classes to match as is your argument. But make harder content that makes it actually hard for people that hit highest DPS numbers.

2. Nerf damage of classes hitting such high numbers. But risk upsetting a lot of people.

I’m either case it’s quite a tricky thing to do with so many in game variables.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

You don’t need Shalks to run Warden and get good DPS. Anything over 40k is more than enough in any and all content. So if you can comfortably hit say 70k without Shalks you should have no problem killing anything…. That does not negate the point that the bug needs fixing however.

I would love to see a group of 40k DPS wardens take down Taleria HM, or even with average 70k. That fight is manageable with 120k+ DPS, but becomes extremely difficult even with a group averaging over 100k.

@code65536 @tmbrinks Any additional thoughts?

I've long been a member of the "40k (unbuffed) DPS is enough for all content" club promotion.

That's all changed with Rockgrove and Dreadsail Reef's Hard Modes. Those are not completable with that level of dps. Period.

I'm all for things getting easier with more DPS, it gives players a reason to improve and get better, but it should be a linear increase. The last two trials become exponentially easier when you have more DPS. It's a recent failure in design that I'm praying will be fixed in the next trial (not hopeful though, give the commentary I have heard from the developers, this seems to be the direction that ZoS wants to take... having the HMs for the few)

merpins wrote: »

Most DPS for Warden comes from Shalks, which is bugged on a couple bosses. It just misses the hitbox of the boss in a couple trials. I'm sure a fix is on the way, but until then, Warden's a bit boned.

That aged nicely. No fix anywhere on the horizon for that.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Yep, Shalks are still bugged on Taleria, which effectively makes Warden unplayable. It's been reported for 9 months, and no sign of a fix coming.

Not having a Warden isn't a big loss for groups though. It seems to perform about 10-15k behind Dragonknight in DPS, so I'm not sure people would bring one even if the bug were fixed. It's taken some hard nerfs over the last several patches, now requiring a Frost Staff for Piercing Cold, Advanced Species becomes useless in groups after EC and Warhorn bring you to the crit damage cap, and Shalks tickle now after they were changed from a semi-spammable to a long duration double hit. The buff to Chilled with Glacial Presence was nice, but not enough to overcome all the other problems.

that was fixed?, true?