What happened to Warden as DD

Otrocious

My main class in the game is the Warden. And I've been angry for a long time that they don't really want to take me to difficult trials on HM. Opened the well-known site ESOLogs. I was shocked. The last boss, Tideborn Teleria as a DD in this patch, was killed by everyone except Warden. You are killing the class... Why? You say that you play whoever you want, in any role, and so on. But in fact? And in fact, Warden as a DD is 2 heads lower than all other classes. You just killed him. thank you very much.

kringled_1

If you look at other HMs (I just browsed through Xalvakka HM logs), you do see warden DDs, although it's still not many. I think Taleria still has the bug where shalks won't usually hit, so people are probably less likely to run wardens there. I'm not saying that wardens as DDs are in good shape, just that your example is probably the worst case scenario.

WrathOfInnos

Yep, Shalks are still bugged on Taleria, which effectively makes Warden unplayable. It's been reported for 9 months, and no sign of a fix coming.

Not having a Warden isn't a big loss for groups though. It seems to perform about 10-15k behind Dragonknight in DPS, so I'm not sure people would bring one even if the bug were fixed. It's taken some hard nerfs over the last several patches, now requiring a Frost Staff for Piercing Cold, Advanced Species becomes useless in groups after EC and Warhorn bring you to the crit damage cap, and Shalks tickle now after they were changed from a semi-spammable to a long duration double hit. The buff to Chilled with Glacial Presence was nice, but not enough to overcome all the other problems.

Otrocious

And after all this, in the new patch they will up the DK... And what exactly is the reason? maybe you should forget about all the classes then? DK shows himself to be the strongest class in the game every 2nd or even every patch. But no, they will continue to strengthen it. Well then, take Warden's combat skills and say straight out that it will only be a support class in the role of a tank or a healer. I will leave you immediately and move on to another class. Do not label yourself or others Zos

miguelcura

I was thinking exactly the same. They have to make all classes desirable as DPS, the "play all roles" is greatly reduced when we go to hardcore veterans and veterans. It is an aberration that 3 necros are wanted, guardians are not wanted, the rosters and the leading raids really leave a lot to be desired. They should put a buff on each role of each class that makes them desirable and necessary, otherwise all 3 roles are a lie, guardian is heal, tank dk, sorcerer and nb are dps...and there is never a variance RPG . My dps warden is my main and whenever I sign up for a roster they ask me to switch to necro or another class and the truth is that it takes away the desire to do raids.

FrancisCrawford

miguelcura wrote: »

I was thinking exactly the same. They have to make all classes desirable as DPS, the "play all roles" is greatly reduced when we go to hardcore veterans and veterans. It is an aberration that 3 necros are wanted, guardians are not wanted, the rosters and the leading raids really leave a lot to be desired. They should put a buff on each role of each class that makes them desirable and necessary, otherwise all 3 roles are a lie, guardian is heal, tank dk, sorcerer and nb are dps...and there is never a variance RPG . My dps warden is my main and whenever I sign up for a roster they ask me to switch to necro or another class and the truth is that it takes away the desire to do raids.

What is a guardian -- templar?

Caribou77

Theyre overbuffing DK in 37 so that A) you’ll be distracted from NBs recently overpowered toolkit, and you’ll want to buy the new Arcanist class, which you can bet will outperform DK when released.

Not much fun to be had for Necros, Magsorcs, and Beamplars for quite some time to come still,

Otrocious

If ZOS gave us a class change token, I would also gladly leave this Wanden already and become an Arcanist. After all, on Warden I have closed all the quests, collected all the skyshards, and a high pvp rank. Starting all over again is not very interesting. And I will not do this because the class is bad. everyone just forgot about it. It's just a support now. as a DD he is dead. This only applies to PVE. All is well in PVP.

GrimStyx

miguelcura wrote: »

I was thinking exactly the same. They have to make all classes desirable as DPS, the "play all roles" is greatly reduced when we go to hardcore veterans and veterans. It is an aberration that 3 necros are wanted, guardians are not wanted, the rosters and the leading raids really leave a lot to be desired. They should put a buff on each role of each class that makes them desirable and necessary, otherwise all 3 roles are a lie, guardian is heal, tank dk, sorcerer and nb are dps...and there is never a variance RPG . My dps warden is my main and whenever I sign up for a roster they ask me to switch to necro or another class and the truth is that it takes away the desire to do raids.

I generally think that the universalization of classes spoils their potential, in my understanding, the usefulness of a class in a certain role should go to diminishing usefulness, for example, a good tank dk, a medium damage dealer, and a weak healer. Warden is a weak damage dealer, but good heal and tank, well, for a change, we could make balanced classes like necro, medium damage dealer, medium healer, and medium tank and so on, then it will be possible to focus on improving his strengths, rather than finding a balance so that he is at least playable, and the fact that they decided to make all new classes universal in everything, I don’t really like it

merpins

Most DPS for Warden comes from Shalks, which is bugged on a couple bosses. It just misses the hitbox of the boss in a couple trials. I'm sure a fix is on the way, but until then, Warden's a bit boned.

ESO_Nightingale

merpins wrote: »

Most DPS for Warden comes from Shalks, which is bugged on a couple bosses. It just misses the hitbox of the boss in a couple trials. I'm sure a fix is on the way, but until then, Warden's a bit boned.

Also it was nerfed

MindOfTheSwarm

You don’t need Shalks to run Warden and get good DPS. Anything over 40k is more than enough in any and all content. So if you can comfortably hit say 70k without Shalks you should have no problem killing anything…. That does not negate the point that the bug needs fixing however.

Otrocious

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

You don’t need Shalks to run Warden and get good DPS. Anything over 40k is more than enough in any and all content. So if you can comfortably hit say 70k without Shalks you should have no problem killing anything…. That does not negate the point that the bug needs fixing however.

Okay, but if the raid leader were to choose between 100+k damage and 70+ damage, who do you think he would choose? The problem is that no matter how hard you try to deal damage with a warden, you can't catch up with DK. And the next patch, I remind you, it will be even stronger

MindOfTheSwarm

Otrocious wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

You don’t need Shalks to run Warden and get good DPS. Anything over 40k is more than enough in any and all content. So if you can comfortably hit say 70k without Shalks you should have no problem killing anything…. That does not negate the point that the bug needs fixing however.

Okay, but if the raid leader were to choose between 100+k damage and 70+ damage, who do you think he would choose? The problem is that no matter how hard you try to deal damage with a warden, you can't catch up with DK. And the next patch, I remind you, it will be even stronger

DK is a mess in terms of identity. Yes they are strong but the have weird skills like stonefist being a heal and so on. They really need to take a closer look at the DK kit and give it some sense of order. Now if raid leader is only choosing the highest DPS people to run, then you should find another raid group to run with. And if it’s your guild only running with the top DPS folks. Then I would leave and find a guild that runs often and is willing to take people who meet a minimum for runs which should not exceed 40k if they are a reasonable guild.
On another note, big guilds generally have enough people to run multiple raid teams. Failing that, make yourself the raid leader and set up your own run.

As for toons hitting 100k plus. That’s just a consequence of power creep over the years. As I’ve said in other posts 30k was considered very good at one point and that was the days of Vet Hard mode Maw. 100k is way overpowered for how difficult the content is. This is evidenced by strategies that completely circumvent mechanics in a lot of content. So there are two solutions:

1. Buff other classes to match as is your argument. But make harder content that makes it actually hard for people that hit highest DPS numbers.

2. Nerf damage of classes hitting such high numbers. But risk upsetting a lot of people.

I’m either case it’s quite a tricky thing to do with so many in game variables.

WrathOfInnos

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

You don’t need Shalks to run Warden and get good DPS. Anything over 40k is more than enough in any and all content. So if you can comfortably hit say 70k without Shalks you should have no problem killing anything…. That does not negate the point that the bug needs fixing however.

I would love to see a group of 40k DPS wardens take down Taleria HM, or even with average 70k. That fight is manageable with 120k+ DPS, but becomes extremely difficult even with a group averaging over 100k.

@code65536 @tmbrinks Any additional thoughts?

tmbrinks

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

You don’t need Shalks to run Warden and get good DPS. Anything over 40k is more than enough in any and all content. So if you can comfortably hit say 70k without Shalks you should have no problem killing anything…. That does not negate the point that the bug needs fixing however.

I would love to see a group of 40k DPS wardens take down Taleria HM, or even with average 70k. That fight is manageable with 120k+ DPS, but becomes extremely difficult even with a group averaging over 100k.

@code65536 @tmbrinks Any additional thoughts?

I've long been a member of the "40k (unbuffed) DPS is enough for all content" club promotion.

That's all changed with Rockgrove and Dreadsail Reef's Hard Modes. Those are not completable with that level of dps. Period.

I'm all for things getting easier with more DPS, it gives players a reason to improve and get better, but it should be a linear increase. The last two trials become exponentially easier when you have more DPS. It's a recent failure in design that I'm praying will be fixed in the next trial (not hopeful though, give the commentary I have heard from the developers, this seems to be the direction that ZoS wants to take... having the HMs for the few)

MudcrabAttack

Probably what happened to the warden, aside from the ongoing bug, was a distaste many have towards ice staff. I don’t mind equipping it occasionally to debuff for a group, but I hate to see some areas of damage drop off just because I want to hold a different weapon

Somber97866

That's what I main right now and hitting over 100k with! Try a magic one with the two ice staves

ESO_Nightingale

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

Probably what happened to the warden, aside from the ongoing bug, was a distaste many have towards ice staff. I don’t mind equipping it occasionally to debuff for a group, but I hate to see some areas of damage drop off just because I want to hold a different weapon

We wanted the ice staff to be competitive with other weapons and the best of the 3 destruction staves for wardens to run for a standard build, as far as i can see, piercing cold gets us to a spot where the ice staff is really good, but it's too specific about it. The old frost damage bonus increase was better in terms of promoting more build flexability. So i think we should return to that or have some sort of hybrid of the current version of the passive and the old one, where the bonus for everyone is higher but the bonus for using a frost staff is limited to just increased frost damage. They also need to return the huge dps nerf from shalks back to shalks, or into some other part of the kit and they should remove the winter's revenge restriction for the 30% increased damage and just give it back 30% increased damage in general.

Lancer1602

merpins wrote: »

Most DPS for Warden comes from Shalks, which is bugged on a couple bosses. It just misses the hitbox of the boss in a couple trials. I'm sure a fix is on the way, but until then, Warden's a bit boned.

That aged nicely. No fix anywhere on the horizon for that.

Melzo

In pve content you need a certain level of dps but you can achieve this level on any class. If you are looking for some kind of record, then choose a meta class. Every season or two, the meta class changes. So there is nothing to be surprised if some class is weaker in pve content. You can still go through all the pve content on any class. DPS difference is around 5%. The value above sees an imbalance and the developers fix it. The developers have put a bolt on pvp content, but pve content is their bread and butter. They track PvE content much better. And do not get upset over such trifles as the worst class in pve. The difference is not critical and at the same time it is not known what will happen next.

miguelcura

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Yep, Shalks are still bugged on Taleria, which effectively makes Warden unplayable. It's been reported for 9 months, and no sign of a fix coming.

Not having a Warden isn't a big loss for groups though. It seems to perform about 10-15k behind Dragonknight in DPS, so I'm not sure people would bring one even if the bug were fixed. It's taken some hard nerfs over the last several patches, now requiring a Frost Staff for Piercing Cold, Advanced Species becomes useless in groups after EC and Warhorn bring you to the crit damage cap, and Shalks tickle now after they were changed from a semi-spammable to a long duration double hit. The buff to Chilled with Glacial Presence was nice, but not enough to overcome all the other problems.

that was fixed?, true?

Kusto

miguelcura wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Yep, Shalks are still bugged on Taleria, which effectively makes Warden unplayable. It's been reported for 9 months, and no sign of a fix coming.

Not having a Warden isn't a big loss for groups though. It seems to perform about 10-15k behind Dragonknight in DPS, so I'm not sure people would bring one even if the bug were fixed. It's taken some hard nerfs over the last several patches, now requiring a Frost Staff for Piercing Cold, Advanced Species becomes useless in groups after EC and Warhorn bring you to the crit damage cap, and Shalks tickle now after they were changed from a semi-spammable to a long duration double hit. The buff to Chilled with Glacial Presence was nice, but not enough to overcome all the other problems.

that was fixed?, true?

Nope. Shalks still dont hit Taleria. I don't think it will ever get fixed. How old is MoL? Wardens bear is still bugged there after all these years.