MrDDT wrote: »

I think it's funny you say it can't be disputed but the person with the most AP out of all the servers is doing it in a med to large group.

You do not get 100x less AP by being in a 24 man raid. Fact.

You will find that the best way to get AP is be being the most effective you can be, solo can be for some people but from what I've seen it's normally 8 to 15 man groups holding choke points or defending.
You are correct objectives are not the best way to get AP and not really a large part of the effective AP gains, nor is healing (healing does add to the AP amount though, so the highest AP gains would be a healer in an effective group)

Having said that, I once got close to 50k AP for an objective. There are ways to work the objective system.

I'm not going to argue with you. Feel free to download any available combat add-on and you will see for yourself the large disparity between AP in a large group and AP solo. This has already been tested by multiple players multiple times and large group (24 players) AP per kill on average is eight AP versus eight hundred AP received per kill solo. Check the numbers yourself.

You are merely reaffirming my point that unless you are on defense, which is the only respectable AP gains through objectives, or grinding kills at a choke point, large groups are not viable. The only way to gain respectable AP gains offensively for objectives is grinding the repeatable quests, which offer 350-500 AP for completion. That hardly compares to 800 AP accumulated for killing one player solo. Lets not also forget that the repeatable quest generally wants one to attack a keep/resource all the way on the other side of Cyrodiil. Hardly practical.

All I want is for AP gains to be based less on mindless killing, ganking and zergs, which it is currently, and more on playing objectives and contributing to the Alliance War. Solo play can still be viable, but there is no question large group AP needs a boost. I've participated in all forms of solo all the way to large group parties and if I wanted to grind AP, I would never join a large group.

All I want is for AP gains to be based less on mindless killing, ganking and zergs, which it is currently, and more on playing objectives and contributing to the Alliance War. Solo play can still be viable, but there is no question large group AP needs a boost. I've participated in all forms of solo all the way to large group parties and if I wanted to grind AP, I would never join a large group.

The problem here is that you likely do not have a good group of people to play with, when you think "large group" you are thinking randoms pick up group.
Build a group of 10 to 15 people that are GOOD players, and watch the difference in AP and solo play. It's not even close that this is the way to get AP.

I want objectives to be a bigger part of the war also, however, saying that solo play is the best way for AP is doing the game a disservice.

IMO, the better way is not to reward people for taking objectives with AP but reward the people that took the objectives with a temp buff (10 to 15mins) that makes them stronger.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

As a solo roamer ... or scout as we like to think of ourselves ... I will say, leave our damn AP alone.

You are entitled to your opinion. ESO is a Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game. AvA is a large-scale, massive open world PvP system which can handle up to 200 players on screen at once. This is not a solo experience. Solo players should not reap the most benefits, regardless of how you may feel about it. That is nonsensical in every sense of the word.

People play how they play. How the pvp was meant to be is not something YOU know. Only the Developers know. Have you ever seen a group of 24 random people in this game stay together? NO. People choose nightblades to go and ambush people traveling from point A to B. If pvp is not rewarding those solo assassins, then there is no reason for anyone ever to still roll a nightblade. it would make the class redundant.

I mostly play in big zergs. but from time to time I also want to go off alone and ambush people. I was (last time I checked) in the top 20 of my server just by 24 man groups. My emperor last time I checked was in the group with me. ALL day.

Pryda who is also on this forum, last time I saw him, was guesting on my campaign Chrysamere, zerging through our few defenders and the smurfs who were invading us. Maybe you're in a terrible server. but in mine, most people zerg. Most people attack and capture keeps, and only a hand full of us seek the path of shadows and assassins. and I believe those people, who spend sometimes well over an hour waiting for someone to ambush at a questing site, have just as much right to do that without losing their position on the leaderboards because they wanted a break from the zergs they will join again a few hours later...

Also, keeps currently are easy enough to capture when undefended. but in all honesty, a buff of the keeps would take my highly outnumbered faction out of the race within hours. at Chrysamere, it is only a handfull of people who play AD. Reds and blues outnumber us by far, and the only reason we are able to hold our own is because we are very well coordinated when it comes to defending and capturing keeps. If capping keeps would be harder because keeps got buffed, then that would mean we would no longer be able to capture a keep before the 60 or so enemy vampire reinforcements arrive and zerg our peak hour 24man group + 5-10 random guys away from behind as we're chipping away at the keep and its 20-60 defenders.

We fight hard at chrysamere. and yes we need more people. but making it tougher to earn points when in small groups, would ruin us. As usually, we're not able to get a full group together unless we have a guild alliance wide event going.

FPS-Art1st wrote: »

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

As a solo roamer ... or scout as we like to think of ourselves ... I will say, leave our damn AP alone.

You are entitled to your opinion. ESO is a Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game. AvA is a large-scale, massive open world PvP system which can handle up to 200 players on screen at once. This is not a solo experience. Solo players should not reap the most benefits, regardless of how you may feel about it. That is nonsensical in every sense of the word.

People play how they play. How the pvp was meant to be is not something YOU know. Only the Developers know. Have you ever seen a group of 24 random people in this game stay together? NO. People choose nightblades to go and ambush people traveling from point A to B. If pvp is not rewarding those solo assassins, then there is no reason for anyone ever to still roll a nightblade. it would make the class redundant.

I mostly play in big zergs. but from time to time I also want to go off alone and ambush people. I was (last time I checked) in the top 20 of my server just by 24 man groups. My emperor last time I checked was in the group with me. ALL day.

Pryda who is also on this forum, last time I saw him, was guesting on my campaign Chrysamere, zerging through our few defenders and the smurfs who were invading us. Maybe you're in a terrible server. but in mine, most people zerg. Most people attack and capture keeps, and only a hand full of us seek the path of shadows and assassins. and I believe those people, who spend sometimes well over an hour waiting for someone to ambush at a questing site, have just as much right to do that without losing their position on the leaderboards because they wanted a break from the zergs they will join again a few hours later...

Also, keeps currently are easy enough to capture when undefended. but in all honesty, a buff of the keeps would take my highly outnumbered faction out of the race within hours. at Chrysamere, it is only a handfull of people who play AD. Reds and blues outnumber us by far, and the only reason we are able to hold our own is because we are very well coordinated when it comes to defending and capturing keeps. If capping keeps would be harder because keeps got buffed, then that would mean we would no longer be able to capture a keep before the 60 or so enemy vampire reinforcements arrive and zerg our peak hour 24man group + 5-10 random guys away from behind as we're chipping away at the keep and its 20-60 defenders.

We fight hard at chrysamere. and yes we need more people. but making it tougher to earn points when in small groups, would ruin us. As usually, we're not able to get a full group together unless we have a guild alliance wide event going.

Ganking has existed since the beginning of open world PvP in MMORPGs. Trust me. Players don't need incentives for killing others. People would do it regardless of what they get.

You seem to be missing the point. AP gains are better solo and in small groups. I was the first DC player crowned emperor on Bloodthorn and I play mainly in 24 party groups. I was passed almost immediately on the leaderboard by players who have admitted to playing solo and farming kills. There is something inherently wrong with a system that encourages farming and not participating in the AvA system.

The main objectives of Cyrodiil are capturing keeps/resources, defending them, capturing Elder Scrolls, and crowning an emperor. That is how an alliance wins the war. That is how everyone in your alliance will receive buffs inside and outside of Cyrodiil. That is how you will receive rewards at reset for your contribution. Anything other than that is purely optional. The true objectives of AvA should be where most of the AP gains lie. I will not change my opinion on this.

Keeps and resources are getting buffed. NPCs are being bolstered to VR5 as ZOS stated objectives in Cyrodiil are flipping more frequently than intended. Smaller groups are already starting to be discouraged.

An underpopulated campaign such as Chrysamere does not adequately represent AvA. You should not hold your experience as the norm. What ZOS needs to do is remove your campaign and the other six that are underpopulated. Merge these populations onto Auriel's Bow, Bloodthorn, and Wabbajack, and many of your problems would be resolved.

galiumb16_ESO wrote: »

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

You seem to be missing the point. AP gains are better solo and in small groups. I was the first DC player crowned emperor on Bloodthorn and I play mainly in 24 party groups. I was passed almost immediately on the leaderboard by players who have admitted to playing solo and farming kills. There is something inherently wrong with a system that encourages farming and not participating in the AvA system.

Why is cutting off reinforcements, occupying large groups of enemy at non-objective choke points, etc considered not participating in the AvA system? What about when our small group breaks sieges? Breaks stale mate battles? It is not like you can just run off to a corner of the map that doesn't effect AvA and farm players.... players are in and around AvA objectives, so that is where you fight.

I think the current system is great and needs to remain, specially as they march down the road of changing AoE caps. The current system rewards risk and that is how it should be.

Using a common occurrence as an example. When our small group is assisting with a defense we are not inside, behind siege waiting for the enemy to make a mistake to charge out. We are are out there on the flank, on the breached walls, really pushing the enemy, forcing those mistakes to happen. Yes we are making more per kill than the 24 man zerg inside the fort, but when we die we have to run back, no points for that portion of time. When we are kiting a 24 man zerg half way across the map because they decided killing us was more important than taking the fort, we are not making points, while all those folks on the defense get a big fat defense AP bonus.

The system right now means that if you are the biggest force on the map, than you are going to earn less AP and that is a good thing for the health of the game. If you are not making enough points then I would argue that you have too large of a group for what you are facing.

The only AP change I think needs a review is the amount you get for taking objectives. Given that you can defend with a smaller number of players I think the ratio of defender vs attacker should be reflected in the formula for how much you should be rewarded when taking a keep. I assume right now it is more of a flat comparison.

I do agree with your other statement about needing to shut down campaigns. We should start off by shutting down 5 campaigns and see how the population shakes out from there.

Where in that quote did I say cutting off reinforcements and occupying choke points is not a part of AvA? Please do not make assumptions. Clearly these tactics are very advantageous towards taking or defending keeps/resources and further pushing your alliance's goals.

Farming kills is ganking lowbies questing or camping elder scrolls gates waiting for prey to come by. My explanation is purely based on activities that do not actually benefit your alliance in the Alliance War. The system encourages and endorses these activities more so than actually participating in AvA.

Too large a group? ZOS has built ESO and their engine to sustain up to 200 players on the screen. They openly want and encourage huge battles. That is really the crux of the AvA system and while I'm not arguing that small groups or solo should be irrelevant, they shouldn't be significantly better AP-wise than large groups. Just because you happen to be in a small group doesn't necessarily mean the battle is harder or requires more skill. That is a fallacy.

Everybody should definitely gain more AP for playing objectively, large and small groups (especially for offense). AP for kills should be reduced significantly, especially for small groups or solo players. This isn't an arena or a death match. Killing players is not what will win the Alliance War. Taking keeps/resources, maintaining them, stealing elder scrolls, and crowning an emperor is what will win the war. These are all objectives. The entire AP system should be based around these principles.

Igolbug wrote: »

If you are a solo player, you still have to kill that opposing player to get those millions of points.

If I am solo and somebody outside my group helps me kill somebody then it diminishes my AP gain off that person drastically. Just as if you have 24 people helping you kill that player your AP gains are cut.

I'm aware of this fact. Again, the people who are farming AP are not participating in scenarios where their AP is diminished. I wouldn't be surprised if some players farming AP are actually trading kills with a friend in another alliance. There aren't any diminishing returns for killing the same player over and over.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

Igolbug wrote: »

If you are a solo player, you still have to kill that opposing player to get those millions of points.

If I am solo and somebody outside my group helps me kill somebody then it diminishes my AP gain off that person drastically. Just as if you have 24 people helping you kill that player your AP gains are cut.

I'm aware of this fact. Again, the people who are farming AP are not participating in scenarios where their AP is diminished. I wouldn't be surprised if some players farming AP are actually trading kills with a friend in another alliance. There aren't any diminishing returns for killing the same player over and over.

Yes there is, I've killed a guy 4 times in a row at a quest hub, some of them were decent fights so it was still fun but I got like 59 pts the 2nd time i killed him in a 1v1 situation.

Igolbug wrote: »

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

Igolbug wrote: »

If you are a solo player, you still have to kill that opposing player to get those millions of points.

If I am solo and somebody outside my group helps me kill somebody then it diminishes my AP gain off that person drastically. Just as if you have 24 people helping you kill that player your AP gains are cut.

I'm aware of this fact. Again, the people who are farming AP are not participating in scenarios where their AP is diminished. I wouldn't be surprised if some players farming AP are actually trading kills with a friend in another alliance. There aren't any diminishing returns for killing the same player over and over.

Yes there is, I've killed a guy 4 times in a row at a quest hub, some of them were decent fights so it was still fun but I got like 59 pts the 2nd time i killed him in a 1v1 situation.

Even if you are correct and there is some semblance of diminishing returns, that is still a lot of AP for a solo kill. AP gains really need to be more objective-oriented and less zerg and kill camping-centric.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

A. The AP gain in this game works like the RP gain in DAOC, as in if you're a zerging ***, you don't get as many rps as someone who takes another person in a 1v1 fight...That's how it should be. You shouldn't get the same or more realm points when you did less in a fight.

B. You get AP's in this game by taking defended objectives, If you got more for taking undefended objectives, you'd end up with Karma Trains like GW2..or Keep Swapping like at the start of WAR.

C. What you want is basically GW2 *** system...If you want that system, go play that game and zerg it up...No reason to boggle down this game with terrible ideas like yours. You want more APs, get better....

First and foremost, refrain from the insults and ignorant statements. They are unnecessary and not needed here. You only undermine your argument.

Again, as I have pointed out, everybody should get less AP for killing. AP shouldn't even largely be driven by killing. That takes away from the actual objectives and what's important in AvA.

There wouldn't be keep swapping as players gain a lot of AP for defending keeps. If you actually understood how AP gains currently work in ESO, you would know that. This isn't even remotely a concern.

The fact that what you think I'm considering is to encourage the zerg is laughable. The current system and how it's based on grinding kills encourages the zerg. I want less zerg and more tactics. Less mindless killing and more coordinated play. AP gains in AvA contradict how the system should work.

Next time you decide to post, please be informed and don't act like a fool. You'll only get yourself reported.

A. Yes...It would result in keep swapping... Every single game that has had more rewards for taking Objectives has resulted in guess what...Keep Swapping.. The Path of Least Resistance is the path every player will take. Guild Wars 2 has this problem, Warhammer online had this problem...Hell even World of Warcraft has this bloody problem...You ever hear of AV? Do you know why the two zergs avoid one another and run directly to the end boss everytime a match occurs? Because its more rewarding to finish the map, Even if you bloody lose.. then actually playing it.

B. The Current System doesn't encourage the zerg....I can make the same amount as someone zerging by soloing, Hell most of the time I can exceed it if i'm with my Gank Group because the sheer amount of kills we get.

Xnemesis wrote: »

Uhhh go get a group of 5-10 vet players and go on a resource capping spree and reap your rewards. One you get good AP, two the enemy doesn't know what the hell you are doing, three you are messing with their transportation too and from keeps, four you are actually still helping your alliance, and five they are repeatable once they are recaptured. Small group big rewards have fun your welcome

You mean capping resources with the resource repeatable? It is not "good AP" in the slightest. I run a objective-oriented group that is always cutting transitus and claiming important keeps to derail the enemy offensive. We barely receive any AP for doing any of it. The repeatable itself is unreliable and barely gives any AP for the effort.

Lowbei wrote: »

lol

pvp is for killing people

keeps and objectives come second

Then you missed the entire point of RvR, WvW, AvA, and any objective-based, large-scale, siege system ever implemented in a PvP MMO. Killing compliments the experience but is not the sole aspect.

Mindless killing will not claim scrolls, or keeps, or resources. It's playing objectives, outwitting the enemy, and using tactics that determine who the top faction is. This isn't Team Slayer in Halo or Team Death match in Call of Duty.

Burrick wrote: »

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

Pryda wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hta9USZuA8&hd=1

Check the AP counter top of the screen. You're just doing it wrong

7,64m AP and counting..

Not at all actually. As stated in the original post, large groups receive a mere fraction of the amount of AP from one kill that a solo player will receive. This video merely indicates what is already known, that one would have to engage in endless zerg vs zerg to grind kills to receive mediocre AP gains.

Just watch any of the players at the top of the leaderboard on any of the campaigns. More than likely they either exclusively run small groups or are solo, and focus primarily on grinding kills.

I am suggesting, for one, to change how AP gains are processed. It needs to be more objective-based and less grinding kills. I'm also suggesting large groups should receive more AP for playing objectives, rather than mindlessly zerging, like the video you depicted.

With the way the system is currently, the best way to accumulate AP is to disregard the Alliance War and grind kills. This mentality should be discouraged as the alliance point system should compliment what players should be doing. Right now, that is not the case.

With all due respect and correct me if I am wrong but aren't you one of those Vampire exploiters ruining PVP?

Not at all. Wouldn't it be rather hypocritical of me to accuse others of being a vampire if I was one myself? I do not enjoy nor take pleasure in playing easy, overpowered, or broken specs/classes in MMORPGs.

I find them uninteresting and lacking skill. I enjoy having a challenge in MMOs, especially PvP. I'm a Imperial DK Tank. I'm not even a VR10 yet and certainly I'm not min/maxed on gear or anything of that sort.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

A. The AP gain in this game works like the RP gain in DAOC, as in if you're a zerging ***, you don't get as many rps as someone who takes another person in a 1v1 fight...That's how it should be. You shouldn't get the same or more realm points when you did less in a fight.

B. You get AP's in this game by taking defended objectives, If you got more for taking undefended objectives, you'd end up with Karma Trains like GW2..or Keep Swapping like at the start of WAR.

C. What you want is basically GW2 *** system...If you want that system, go play that game and zerg it up...No reason to boggle down this game with terrible ideas like yours. You want more APs, get better....

First and foremost, refrain from the insults and ignorant statements. They are unnecessary and not needed here. You only undermine your argument.

Again, as I have pointed out, everybody should get less AP for killing. AP shouldn't even largely be driven by killing. That takes away from the actual objectives and what's important in AvA.

There wouldn't be keep swapping as players gain a lot of AP for defending keeps. If you actually understood how AP gains currently work in ESO, you would know that. This isn't even remotely a concern.

The fact that what you think I'm considering is to encourage the zerg is laughable. The current system and how it's based on grinding kills encourages the zerg. I want less zerg and more tactics. Less mindless killing and more coordinated play. AP gains in AvA contradict how the system should work.

Next time you decide to post, please be informed and don't act like a fool. You'll only get yourself reported.

A. Yes...It would result in keep swapping...The fact that you need that explained to you makes me think you're not intelligent enough to be posting on this forum. Every single game that has had more rewards for taking Objectives has resulted in guess what...Keep Swapping.. The Path of Least Resistance is the path every player will take. Guild Wars 2 has this problem, Warhammer online had this problem...Hell even World of Warcraft has this bloody problem...You ever hear of AV? I'm sure you have, you seem like the kind of player WoW produced. Do you know why the two zergs avoid one another and run directly to the end boss everytime a match occurs? Because its more rewarding to finish the map, Even if you bloody lose.. then actually playing it.

B. The Current System doesn't encourage the zerg....I can make the same amount as someone zerging by soloing, Hell most of the time I can exceed it if i'm with my Gank Group because the sheer amount of kills we get.

C. No...what you want is to PVD a bunch of objectives because you aren't able to actually kill a large number of players and compete with those that did, hence why you got passed at the start of the game. Now you want the game changed to suit your badness at PvP.

Next time you post, I'll embarrass you even more.... So sit the hell down

You will still gain more AP from defending rather than attacking. How does that not make sense in the slightest to you? Keep swapping would only happen if offensive gains outweighed defensive gains. This would not be the case. The rest of your wall of text is irrelevant to the discussion.

If you want to be in a large group, the zerg is the only way to gain somewhat respectable AP. Constantly defending against zergs or attacking zergs to grind AP via kills is the most efficient way. Playing objectives and trying to succeed in AvA is ironically discouraged in favor of mindless killing. You merely prove my point that solo players receive a ridiculous amount of AP and they shouldn't. AvA isn't dueling or ganking lowbies questing. That isn't where most of the AP should be going towards.

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound right now? For one, I was passed because I wasn't able to play for three days straight. Secondly, those who passed me were playing broken vampire specs and farming kills solo. It wasn't difficult to kill 1v20 as a vampire. I'm sure you were probably part of the FOTM club yourself.

Regardless, I came to this game to play AvA, not zerg wars and ganking. The current AP system encourages these mindless killing activities over what actually matters, the Alliance War and objectives. If you are too blind to see that, then please don't post again. Your poor attempts at insults and uprooting my credibility are sad and only make you look foolish.

A. you only gain more from defending based on the amount of kills you get from defending, and that's based on the amount of realm points earned in the area..In otherwords, If players are worth less in PvP, and you kill them, the amount of Realm Points earned during Defending from the Tic is less. Taking objectives right now gives about 600-1000 if no one defends..The most i've seen on a single defense that was two hours long on the tic is 20k. If players weren't worth the amount they were, no one would bother defending, and we'd be keep swapping.

B. Solo Players should gain ridiculous amounts of AP if they're killing people, They're defending the Objective just the same as you defending that objective...Only they risk dying far more then you, who has 23 other people backing him up because you're afraid to die. Bigger the Risk, Bigger the Reward.

C. You came to play AvA and not zerg wars? You're zerging right now with 24 people, you're just not very good at it obviously otherwise you'd be able to make a healthy amount of Realm Points. Blaming others for your failures at the game is hilarious.

I'm sorry PvD seems to be your preferred method of play... and actual PvP seems to scare you.

By the way, for the comment on Alliance vs Alliance is dueling/ganking lowbies or whatever.

We had this discussion back in DAOC with players like yourself..Who insisted Realm vs Realm is nothing but Keeps/Towers and such.

Alliance vs Alliance is exactly that..Alliances fighting one another, It doesn't specify what the alliance is..or what the battles are.

it could be that single 1v1 out the middle of no where..It could be ganking lowbies, it can even by blowing up terrible zergs.

It can be all those things...

you want more Alliance Points, play better.

zazamalek wrote: »

There exists a game with this kind of zerg AOE-bombing gameplay already. It is a good and polished game and very likely what you are looking for. It's not TESO. Let TESO be TESO and let the other game be the other game.

Some thoughts on large groups:

• Safety in numbers: the risk associated with playing in PvP drops sharply. The reward for playing in this fashion should follow.
• More reward with less effort: large groups can get a lot done with less individual effort from players. This means that individual players are being rewarded for the mere notion that they joined a large group. The current system corrects for that inequality.
• Insurmountable force: it's often that a small group simply gets annihilated by a very large group/zerg because of the asymmetry in the fight. Players in the large group should have their reward adjusted downwards to ensure that reward for small groups and large groups remains largely the same.
• Non-linear effect: The effect a zerg has on the battlefield does not scale linearly, especially when the opposing side constitutes small groups. Large groups simply win more battles.

Please no rampant zerg AOE bombing in TESO.

Yours, someone who is often in a 24-man group.

The problem with your thoughts, along with many others, is the assumption that a group of 24 can only be a "zerg." People seem to throw this term around a lot, but I'm not sure you actually know what it means.

A zerg is nothing more than using numbers to solve any situation. It doesn't require tactics. You accumulate as many players as you can and you throw them at a target. A 24-man group is not a zerg purely because it is the standard size party ZOS accommodates in AvA.

A zerg would be multiple large parties all moving in a linear fashion from one keep to the next bullying their way to success. Now for those of us who have extensively participated in AvA, we know this is not an effective strategy.

The reason the DC has been so dominant on the Bloodthorn campaign is purely because we are more objective-oriented than the rest. The EP is a mindless zerg that never gets anywhere. The AD is underpopulated and overrun with newly-nerfed vampires. The DC is the only alliance with decent coordination and tactics, so we keep a rather tight grip on most of the map.

For the last time, I am anti-zerg. I have never endorsed the strategy in any MMO and I certainly don't approve of it here. The current AP system, however, encourages just that. If you are in a large party, the best way to accumulate AP is through kills, which generally means a bunch of large parties butting heads against one another for hours. I don't consider that to be very entertaining.

I want objectives to matter and for players to be rewarded for it. The problem with your assessment is it is a very narrow-minded understanding of how large groups can function. You try to pigeon hole everyone into the same boat, and by consequence, make a system that discourages AvA and encourages zergs and mindless killing.

As far as rampant AOE zerg bombing, have you not seen all the vampire bat swarm/impulse spammers out there? Not to mention standard of might, dark talons, and the various other "skill groups" endorse to face roll large groups with AOE bombing. You seem to have deluded yourself into believe ESO is exactly what you don't want it to be.

Rofl...

In this guys head..

24 people.. not a zerg (By the way, the Party Size thing cracked me up, The standard party size is 4, you can convert it into what was basically a Battlegroup in Warhammer Online, and the standard party size in that game was 6, you could have way more then that in a battlegroup, I think it was something along the lines of 40 or so but i could be wrong...But it was a zerg then, and its a zerg now)

Killing Players endorses zergings....But farming empty keeps, won't lead to zerging

AoE bombing Zergs is bad, PVDing doors is good

Bloodthorn DC players = skillful amazing players, Not that they simply outnumber the other two sides at different points of the day.

So .....Bad.....