Who do you think you are?

nimbli · May 2014

"They" believe they are looked up to because they are "elite" and "hardcore". In reality.....well, its up to you to decide. I know what I think.

crush83 · May 2014

reggielee wrote: »

using the lfg pug finder to handpick candidates for your small group of elitists is what is wrong, make your group from your guild, friends and contacts list instead of berating random players. other games instituted a timer penalty for kicking people from the group, perhaps its time to do that here

And when you get slapped with that timer penalty for kicking trolls from your group, will you be a fan then?

Or do you think it's fine if your group member(s) want to hang back while you do all the killing and they loot chests.

Yeah, that's that strongly correlated counter-point that I've been stating, yet @Milanna‌ can't seem to grasp how it's connected to the topic. LOL.

Chomppa · May 2014

This happens in f2p games also , on my server Anvil Rock on GW2 , commanders would have a raging fit when people are trying to kill the champion grub or champion oak tree .

Rantog · May 2014

I was asked about two years ago for rights to publish several of my articles about this sort of behavior. Not because I am specially talented at writing, but because I had been to both ends of the spectrum.

There have always been a small portion of gamers who were more concerned with Beating the game than its actual content or nature, and when MMOs came into being, that thinking mutated into two basic natures.

The Raid-Rules way of thinking, which essentially dictates that if you aren't willing to forego everything else to dedicate your life/time/resources to This Game, Right Now, and until the group/guild/clan/faction WINS - you are not playing the game Correctly and are ruining the game for those who do.

And what I call MECHs. Back in the first few MMOs they formed private communities (guilds didn't exist yet) and were dedicated to individual character Perfections. Basically, the original MMO version of Munchkins (min/maxers).

The later isn't so bad, since they are more concerned with their Own character and ability than how inferior someone else might be --- although many trying to Emulate them often miss the mark and end up more worried about being Better than You than about Perfecting themselves..

The former is a plague on gaming in general. While I can't say their gaming choices are Wrong - because it is Their gameplay, not mine - they tend to have a largely Negative impact on the gaming experience of everyone they come across who doesn't share their "Win It NOW!" attitude.
They're the ones you hear over voip going into unintelligible streams of profanity over others not Doing As Told in PvP matches and things of that sort.

I only hope games will begin to lead us back Away from that sort of gaming style. Presently, most games Reward that behavior.

crush83 · May 2014

The core problem here is that the social aspect of MMOs has broken down. People don't want to put forth effort towards making new friends and acquaintances. Problem is this

Relationships are like flowers; they need to be watered if they are to grow

No one wants to invest the time and effort of watering a new relationship, just for it to grow thorns and prick them. People are fickle and conniving. One second, they are your friend, the next second they are taking you for all you're worth and leaving you high and dry. Never is that experienced more than in the anonymity of online.

It's much easier to open that dungeon finder, and have it match you up with some random players, while you continue playing the game, than having to stop and socially invest yourself and your time in order to try and forge friendships with people you will never meet.

Milanna · May 2014

crush83 wrote: »

Oh now it was sarcasm. Right. It's pretty obvious that you got schooled, and are too proud to simply admit it.

crush83 wrote: »

I call you a kid because you act like one. You can't seem to comprehend simple arguments. You have the memory of a goldfish. You cling to double standards. You can't seem to respect that not everyone wants to play like you.

I don´t consider my self "schooled" by you. I got my schooling elsewhere. Im sure you will too, eventually.

I respect others just fine. I believe it´s you who have trouble with that.

But I am going to leave you to your ramblings old man.

crush83 · May 2014

Milanna wrote: »

crush83 wrote: »

Oh now it was sarcasm. Right. It's pretty obvious that you got schooled, and are too proud to simply admit it.

crush83 wrote: »

I call you a kid because you act like one. You can't seem to comprehend simple arguments. You have the memory of a goldfish. You cling to double standards. You can't seem to respect that not everyone wants to play like you.

I don´t consider my self "schooled" by you. I got my schooling elsewhere. Im sure you will too, eventually.

I respect others just fine. I believe it´s you who have trouble with that.

But I am going to leave you to your ramblings old man.

More deflection. Typical of someone who can't admit they were wrong.

PS. Are you leaving for real this time?

Hrithmus · May 2014

Rantog wrote: »

I was asked about two years ago for rights to publish several of my articles about this sort of behavior. Not because I am specially talented at writing, but because I had been to both ends of the spectrum.

There have always been a small portion of gamers who were more concerned with Beating the game than its actual content or nature, and when MMOs came into being, that thinking mutated into two basic natures.

The Raid-Rules way of thinking, which essentially dictates that if you aren't willing to forego everything else to dedicate your life/time/resources to This Game, Right Now, and until the group/guild/clan/faction WINS - you are not playing the game Correctly and are ruining the game for those who do.

And what I call MECHs. Back in the first few MMOs they formed private communities (guilds didn't exist yet) and were dedicated to individual character Perfections. Basically, the original MMO version of Munchkins (min/maxers).

The later isn't so bad, since they are more concerned with their Own character and ability than how inferior someone else might be --- although many trying to Emulate them often miss the mark and end up more worried about being Better than You than about Perfecting themselves..

The former is a plague on gaming in general. While I can't say their gaming choices are Wrong - because it is Their gameplay, not mine - they tend to have a largely Negative impact on the gaming experience of everyone they come across who doesn't share their "Win It NOW!" attitude.
They're the ones you hear over voip going into unintelligible streams of profanity over others not Doing As Told in PvP matches and things of that sort.

I only hope games will begin to lead us back Away from that sort of gaming style. Presently, most games Reward that behavior.

You nailed it on the head my friend. I wish i could hit that agree button 1,000 times

ZiRM · May 2014

The thread title reminds me of the opening of Skyrim when he asks..
Who are you?

Perseas · May 2014

basically the game needs some balancing first AND some cloth improvements in the looks and likes. Cloth users including my self, we are victims.

Most of the good armor is metal, that proves the game at the moment is not "play the way u want" , but it forces u to wear metal gear and look like skyrim leaflet with 2 horns in ur head.

I am a sorc and I want my sorc to wear cloth armor and to look very wizardy, not like a nomad in iraq... Or at least, medium armor, but with a cape...

Dragon age wizards, tend to wear leather and capes (doesnt matter if the game at the momment doesnt have dragons, the lore does and they are sleeping)... so medium armor can be tolerated, but not metal

There are some movies and comics with leather armor for wizards, but they do have capes and wands and staffs... I am traditional. I dont want to end up with a sword, shield, metal plates and pretend to be a sorc!

So its not only some users that try to command you how to play, but zenimax is promoting mostly meta gear themselves... They have to fix this.

Also summoner sorc, is the worst thing u can be at the moment. Summoners are like tanks, survival class. But ESO summoners are like flies, they die like ones. The pets run to save their lives...

As for the players who try to tell you what to do and how to do it, just dont bother with them.

Bellow is an example (its an image to show a bug, but forget about the bug, look the armor I wear). Its a medium armor disguise, not a actual armor.. ZENIMAX i want this armor, but with a cape and NOT as a disguise, its beautiful for a wizzard with a black cape... perfect... And plz dont use disguise allot, thats not quality content.

Aria · May 2014

Simple solution:
Find other (non elitist) players to group with?

Sad that these so called "elite" players fail to realize even the best geared player can still suck, personally would rather have a badly geared person that knows how to play over some twink that cant any day!

Thechemicals · May 2014

NiRN wrote: »

The thread title reminds me of the opening of Skyrim when he asks..
Who are you?

This thread reminds me of zone chat.

Harleyquincey · May 2014

Thing is.. it doesn't matter. Neither will it matter if you rage about it or if you don't rage about it. It's pointless. You will either have to find those that will like your preferred playstyle or not and in case a) you will be accepted for what it's worth and find some fun time and in case b) you won't be accepted and occasionally kicked from a group.

I've been on both sides, forcing others out of raid groups and being forced out of raid groups. Alas I don't kick someone just for being inexperienced. I'd consider it if they are severely undergeared (hard to see in ESO) and with severely I mean... in another MMO where gear has a rating and certain content is, just pure example numbers, designed to work for a group with an average of 170, I did kick someone for bringing gear rated 110 after trying it once with him on board. However I easily kick people if they behave like total ***, bei it namecalling others, behaving like braindead zombies without even trying to adapt and if they are generally causing more harm to the group dynamics than they don't. I've also been asked to leave due to being undergeared on an alt on another raid in that other MMO (nope, not WoW) and that's cool with me if it just doesn't work out.

So - take care, find players that are of an equal attitude, no matter what yours is, and have fun, enjoying this blast of a game together

crush83 · May 2014

Rantog wrote: »

I was asked about two years ago for rights to publish several of my articles about this sort of behavior. Not because I am specially talented at writing, but because I had been to both ends of the spectrum.

There have always been a small portion of gamers who were more concerned with Beating the game than its actual content or nature, and when MMOs came into being, that thinking mutated into two basic natures.

The Raid-Rules way of thinking, which essentially dictates that if you aren't willing to forego everything else to dedicate your life/time/resources to This Game, Right Now, and until the group/guild/clan/faction WINS - you are not playing the game Correctly and are ruining the game for those who do.

And what I call MECHs. Back in the first few MMOs they formed private communities (guilds didn't exist yet) and were dedicated to individual character Perfections. Basically, the original MMO version of Munchkins (min/maxers).

The later isn't so bad, since they are more concerned with their Own character and ability than how inferior someone else might be --- although many trying to Emulate them often miss the mark and end up more worried about being Better than You than about Perfecting themselves..

The former is a plague on gaming in general. While I can't say their gaming choices are Wrong - because it is Their gameplay, not mine - they tend to have a largely Negative impact on the gaming experience of everyone they come across who doesn't share their "Win It NOW!" attitude.
They're the ones you hear over voip going into unintelligible streams of profanity over others not Doing As Told in PvP matches and things of that sort.

I only hope games will begin to lead us back Away from that sort of gaming style. Presently, most games Reward that behavior.

Gamers are more concerned about the destination, and neglect the journey.

UO/SWG those games were about the journey. Games today are all about end-game, and being able to say "first".

And that is a direct product of today's games being completely linear. Early content is meaningless in the grand scheme. So, players rush to end-game, and obsess over being the best possible player. That is how you win an MMO, after-all =/

Nooblet · May 2014

I can see both sides of this... I strongly agree that players have every right to kick someone for whatever reason they choose as long as its a majority and not just 1 player power tripping.Ffxiv tried without a kick, and it was extremely abused, and failed.

But I also have sympathy for those who struggle to compete. I used to think people didn't care or didn't try hard enough. Until my wife convinced me to play wow with her. She had played for years and loved it. A couple weeks I was max level, I got enough gear to raid and convinced her to as well. She liked it but was not very good. It was not long before she got kicked, and she was pretty upset.

She knew I wanted to raid, and she liked it also and liked getting gear upgrades to improve her character so she stuck it out, researched her class, studied builds and printed out rotations and studied them like homework. She put a lot more effort in than I did, yet she performs significantly under what I do. While she improved, she still is what I would call below average. She runs a parser and spends quite a bit of time at test dummies as well.

I want players like her to have fun as well.. but I'm not sure anyone has a perfect solution.

nimbli · May 2014

Gamers and MMOers used to be a subculture where people could be comfortable around others that are like them. It felt welcoming and a refuge to many. Now that it is so mainstream its completely different.

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

Aria wrote: »

Simple solution:
Find other (non elitist) players to group with?

Sad that these so called "elite" players fail to realize even the best geared player can still suck, personally would rather have a badly geared person that knows how to play over some twink that cant any day!

Where have any of us failed to realize or said that. From what i've read and posted myself I got quite the opposite.

But stuff like gearscore, dps meters and whatnot gives you a better overall idea towards a stranger and % wise those able to obtain the best gear are statisticly more likely to be a skilled player because they beat that content where it dropped (or well in ESOs case invested the time and resources to also craft it).

Anyways i belive that from what i read and posted myself was that we DO want to play with skilled players and not someone who isn't. Arguements for gearscore, dps meters etc is just tools to easier identify that and make it faster/easier to spot those players.

I know it's an old rant but maybe actually read what's been posted before making claims that are plain and simply false.

Morrawind · May 2014

They are not elite. They are arrogant pubers trying to compensate something tiny in their pants

Mizumauz · May 2014

Ugh, totally agree with you OP. I see why there are elitist groups, many formed ages ago and are old guilds, etc, and I could care less if they do as they wish, and there really isn't much way to stop it unless you want a game devoid of all competition... but, I do get really annoyed at it & see both its good and bad effects on the game. It's what destroyed TESO for me in some ways-in beta people seemed a lot kinder and warm to each other, all of a sudden these hardcore people showed up with their cold hearts :'(.... and turned this into a rat race. No more hours spent chatting with random strangers, emoting, getting to know each other, nope, now you're in a guild and that's who you're with and no one else. No time for fun, no time for friend-making, just the grinding race to the top. Well, that's fine, I want to do all of the content too, but I am not about to run to max vet rank and work endlessly to be at the top of a game. So, I am an outcast, who sits in the city naked trying to befriend the cold-hearted people, waiting for my sub to end...

tordr86b16_ESO · May 2014

Hrithmus wrote: »

snip

They are paying the same about of money as you do, so if they don't want to play with you because of x reason(s), then bye bye - find someone else to group up with.

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

Slightly amusing that now elitist are coldhearted people too

But anyways doesn't bother me really and brought a little smile on my lips that's how you see us. Personally I have a good deal of online friends and the tight core i've played with for many many years most i've meet irl and consider good friends.

If that's how you see and think mmo gaming have become I don't know why you'd play. But for my side i find enjoyment in bettering myself and always striving to better myself in fact i do that irl too. So my coldhearted friends that can have a laugh or a good discussion on theorycrafting or whatever we are in the mood for. I socialize with them because because we are like minded and have a better chance of achiving what we want together and form a friendship.

But anyways just found it slightly amusing that's how some actually sees me/us

Vunter · May 2014

Thanks OP, but we already know that people are the major problem of MMOs ^^

crush83 · May 2014

Mizumauz wrote: »

Ugh, totally agree with you OP. I see why there are elitist groups, many formed ages ago and are old guilds, etc, and I could care less if they do as they wish, and there really isn't much way to stop it unless you want a game devoid of all competition... but, I do get really annoyed at it & see both its good and bad effects on the game. It's what destroyed TESO for me in some ways-in beta people seemed a lot kinder and warm to each other, all of a sudden these hardcore people showed up with their cold hearts :'(.... and turned this into a rat race. No more hours spent chatting with random strangers, emoting, getting to know each other, nope, now you're in a guild and that's who you're with and no one else. No time for fun, no time for friend-making, just the grinding race to the top. Well, that's fine, I want to do all of the content too, but I am not about to run to max vet rank and work endlessly to be at the top of a game. So, I am an outcast, who sits in the city naked trying to befriend the cold-hearted people, waiting for my sub to end...

Zone-wide chat is part of the problem. The other part of the problem is that trolling isn't simply accepted by the community, it is seemingly applauded.

"You got trolled lololol so funny!!!!!!"

Seriously, the old school games didn't really do zone/server wide chat. Most older games had very localized chat, in combination with your friends list and guild lists. By localized, I mean, people within x meters of you could hear what you said. That was it.

Now, with zone-wide chat, everyone is chiming in, trying to look "cool" in zone-chat. On top of that, you've got the gold spammers. You've got the people desperately trying to find buyers for their blue items that they don't want to sell to the vendors for pennies. You've got guild advertisements.

Guilds should have a proper place to advertise. Traders should have a proper place to advertise. Gold sellers should be filtered/banned. Remove the mindless banter that is a consequence of zone-wide chat.

Local chat leads to friendships developing. People learn each other's names because they converse with the same people regularly. They soon learn if they like them or not.

Look at the old school games, and why their communities were successful.

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

I don't really see what zone chat has to do with a state of mind and/or people arguing against that state of mind demanding to be included.

And i played mmo's since beta of UO where only people inside your actuall screen could see what you said and no friendlist having everyone on your icq list

Random banter being random.

crush83 · May 2014

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO wrote: »

I don't really see what zone chat has to do with a state of mind and/or people arguing against that state of mind demanding to be included.

And i played mmo's since beta of UO where only people inside your actuall screen could see what you said and no friendlist having everyone on your icq list

Random banter being random.

It has to do with chat being convoluted. No one gets to know anyone. In UO, when chat was over people's heads, a person's message wasn't pushed off screen because some other idiot was spamming gold, guild, or wares. Yeah, at the East Bank of Britain, chat got a little congested, but there were plenty of other cities and banks to convene at.

People got to know each other in UO because you saw the same people each day, and were able to have a conversation with them, without it getting pushed off screen before you realized it.

It's the format of the chat. It's the fact that chat is overpopulated.

Because chat is so polluted, it's hard to socialize.

In TESO, I have to pretty much stop what I'm doing if I want to follow chat because it is scrolling so fast, and I'm a very fast reader. Most modern games have this problem now. I don't believe it's coincidence that their communities are growing more and more dysfunctional.

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

Again i don't see what this has to do with people being elitist or against it. In UO I still played with what i considered skilled players and had those players on my icq list. I have continued that playstyle ever since but again i don't see what a chat format has to do with any of that or what this thread is about.

Maybe a new thread for that subject if you care or find it is something that needs to be voiced?

Artemiisia · May 2014

the.dzeneralb16_ESO wrote: »

I agree with that add-on to be honest. Why? Because I like to know the current strenghts and weakness' of my party. For example we had a sorcerer who kept dying...to everything in a vet dungeon. Then after asking we found out he had 1200 hp...at vet 7. Safe to say, we had to find another player to replace him.

lol 1200 hp at vet 7

I have 2200 hp at vet 3 for my vamp sorc

totally understandable you had to kick him, he would die instant with some of the aoes or single shots

Kyotee0071 · May 2014

I'd venture to say it's the younger generation into the "leetism". Most of us adults who have mortgages, bills, and work hard in everyday life jump on these games to have fun, chill, share some laughs, and escape.

That's why I gave up hardcore raiding many moons ago. Though dps meters are great for one to judge their performance and tell if they are actually improving - I feel they were hurtful overall to the MMORGP genre. Same with Gear scores, i levels, and achievements.

I miss the day when folks played to have fun. If it took 20 extra minutes to clear a dungeon no one cared. It was about getting the job done, and escaping stressful everyday life with like minded folks.

If folks are looking for a hardcore PVE game my opinion is they are playing the wrong game. There are other games out there with much deeper PVE mechanics. If this game is going to last it's going to be from it's AVA / PVP in my humble opinion.

Fairydragon3 · May 2014

nimbli wrote: »

"They" believe they are looked up to because they are "elite" and "hardcore". In reality.....well, its up to you to decide. I know what I think.

The Only people I consider "Elite" and I use that only in the sense of video games......the award can only go to groups like Team Liquid, or Alliance.

Hexi · May 2014

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Hrithmus wrote: »

snip

They are paying the same about of money as you do, so if they don't want to play with you because of x reason(s), then bye bye - find someone else to group up with.

Exactly this. I find the entire issue and the OP incredibly ironic.

Who do you think *YOU* are that you assume you can dictate who plays with you?

I'm an average player at best and if what I bring to the group isn't good enough in the eyes of ther other 3 to 15 people then so be it. I'm not going to be upset about it.