I've started running Vet dungeons because of my Templar

SilverBride · March 2023

I was an avid raider in other games but chilled out when I came to ESO. Lately I've been motivated to try Vet dungeons by a friend and we even duo'd one with our tank and healing Companions. This friend also encouraged me to check my damage on a raid target dummy at our guild's hall and I was shocked by how well my Templar did. None of my other characters perform nearly as well.

I keep seeing threads about how bad Templar is, but that is far from my experience. Because of my Templar, and my friend's encouragement, I am now enjoying content I never felt confident to try before.

Zodiarkslayer · March 2023

Good for you, that you are trying vet content. I know it is a big step, mentally.
I am happy for you! 😁
And kudos to your friend for pushing you out of your comfy zone. 👍

I think Templars never were bad. Do you mind sharing details of your build?

SilverBride · March 2023

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Good for you, that you are trying vet content. I know it is a big step, mentally.
I am happy for you! 😁
And kudos to your friend for pushing you out of your comfy zone. 👍

I think Templars never were bad. Do you mind sharing details of your build?

I'm using Hack the Minotaur's Magicka Templar Solo PvE One Bar Build. I am using Mother's Sorrow and Julianos until I get the rest of the suggested sets, and am using the Slimecraw Monster Helm but not the Shoulders.

I just don't understand why some think Templars are so bad.

merpins · March 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Good for you, that you are trying vet content. I know it is a big step, mentally.
I am happy for you! 😁
And kudos to your friend for pushing you out of your comfy zone. 👍

I think Templars never were bad. Do you mind sharing details of your build?

I'm using Hack the Minotaur's Magicka Templar Solo PvE One Bar Build. I am using Mother's Sorrow and Julianos until I get the rest of the suggested sets, and am using the Slimecraw Monster Helm but not the Shoulders.

I just don't understand why some think Templars are so bad.

At end game, templars aren't doing so hot. Their main tools as a DPS were nerfed so hard that one of them isn't used at all, and the other is only used in situations where your group doesn't have minor breach. The nerfs left templar with no real damage kit; it has a couple damaging skills and some utility, but it's underperforming when compared to the other classes, sans sorc that's in a similar boat. It left templar without a good spammable, removed its main burst potential, and left its damage reliant on the execute phase.

Ragnarok0130 · March 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

I was an avid raider in other games but chilled out when I came to ESO. Lately I've been motivated to try Vet dungeons by a friend and we even duo'd one with our tank and healing Companions. This friend also encouraged me to check my damage on a raid target dummy at our guild's hall and I was shocked by how well my Templar did. None of my other characters perform nearly as well.

I keep seeing threads about how bad Templar is, but that is far from my experience. Because of my Templar, and my friend's encouragement, I am now enjoying content I never felt confident to try before.

I’m happy that you’re giving dungeons a shot, maybe I’ll heal you in a random! If you want to get into trials I can introduce you to some solid beginner friendly groups.

Regarding your point about Templar being good your experience needs to be contrasted to earlier iterations of templar for full context of the templar mains’ grievances as the class has been the target of numerous ZoS nerf beat downs. Just curious are you using a one bar, oakensoul or 2 bar build on your plar?

SilverBride · March 2023

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I was an avid raider in other games but chilled out when I came to ESO. Lately I've been motivated to try Vet dungeons by a friend and we even duo'd one with our tank and healing Companions. This friend also encouraged me to check my damage on a raid target dummy at our guild's hall and I was shocked by how well my Templar did. None of my other characters perform nearly as well.

I keep seeing threads about how bad Templar is, but that is far from my experience. Because of my Templar, and my friend's encouragement, I am now enjoying content I never felt confident to try before.

I’m happy that you’re giving dungeons a shot, maybe I’ll heal you in a random! If you want to get into trials I can introduce you to some solid beginner friendly groups.

Regarding your point about Templar being good your experience needs to be contrasted to earlier iterations of templar for full context of the templar mains’ grievances as the class has been the target of numerous ZoS nerf beat downs. Just curious are you using a one bar, oakensoul or 2 bar build on your plar?

One bar Oakensoul.

BaalMelqartu · March 2023

I am glad you are enjoying Templar and getting into more content.

Since the major Templar changes, I have also switched my 2 Templars up and continue to enjoy them. One as a one bar Oakensoul heavy attack build, one as a two bar non Oakensoul heavy attack build. The one you chose looks different from either of the routes I went and looks fun.

I think a lot of the frustration with Templar changes is for two bar builds that do not utilize heavy attacks. Some of the bread and butter Templar abilities that filled out two bars were altered quite a bit and it forced one to go in new directions and/or pick more global abilities.

I am hoping your post does not attract people wanting to put you down for using Oakensoul as that seems to be a pretty contentious thing for some people currently but if it does, take heart and keep enjoying your Templar however you want to play them!

NordSwordnBoard · March 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

I was an avid raider in other games but chilled out when I came to ESO. Lately I've been motivated to try Vet dungeons by a friend and we even duo'd one with our tank and healing Companions. This friend also encouraged me to check my damage on a raid target dummy at our guild's hall and I was shocked by how well my Templar did. None of my other characters perform nearly as well.

I keep seeing threads about how bad Templar is, but that is far from my experience. Because of my Templar, and my friend's encouragement, I am now enjoying content I never felt confident to try before.

That's good to hear. I think the friend and you deserve the credit though. You may have found a "main" or new "main" class for yourself. Templar is not responsible for progressing, you are. Although I'm sure your Templar prayed for you along the way.

kargen27 · March 2023

I think Templars got a bad reputation because so many people give to much credence to players going for trifectas and leader boards. If that is the goal Templars are at a disadvantage.
Templars are very survivable so that makes them a good choice for a variety of players. Also very versatile. Some dungeons and trials a good self heal or shield comes in handy for the DPS. Easy to add those to a Templar build and still get decent damage numbers.

WrathOfInnos · March 2023

Many people are just upset about the jabs damage nerf and new animation. Templar has a few underpowered skills (Backlash and Sun Fire), but overall they are still good at dealing damage. They are a little behind Dragonknight in DPS, and on par with both Sorcerer and Necromancer. They rely heavily on their execute beam, and having a couple good AoE DoTs (Blazing Spear and Ritual of Retribution).

One thing to consider is that Oakensoul is not really needed on Templar, even on a heavy attack build. They can cast Solar Barrage and get 22s of Empower (as well as 20s of Minor Sorcery from a passive). Accelerate or Barbed Trap can be used for Minor Force, and either Camo Hunter or Vamp Bane for Major Savagery/Prophecy. In groups a DK often provides Major Sorcery and a healer gives Major Courage. You may as well use a better mythic, like Kilt or Mora's. Sorcerers rely on Oakensoul because they don't have access to long-duration Empower.

SilverBride · March 2023

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

I am hoping your post does not attract people wanting to put you down for using Oakensoul as that seems to be a pretty contentious thing for some people currently

Well I trust Hack the Minotaur and this is a build he put together. If others don't like Oakensoul they don't have to use it, but this build has made it possible for me to enjoy things I never thought I would.

BaalMelqartu · March 2023

Here, here! So say we all! This is the way!
Completely agree. With my poor internet connection, I don't have to hit an ability twice to get it to fire off, I don't have to try three times to swap bars etc. I realize connection may not have been an issue for you but I just share your enjoyment in being able to focus on mechanics more and do new things.

FrancisCrawford · March 2023

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Many people are just upset about the jabs damage nerf and new animation. Templar has a few underpowered skills (Backlash and Sun Fire), but overall they are still good at dealing damage. They are a little behind Dragonknight in DPS, and on par with both Sorcerer and Necromancer. They rely heavily on their execute beam, and having a couple good AoE DoTs (Blazing Spear and Ritual of Retribution).

One thing to consider is that Oakensoul is not really needed on Templar, even on a heavy attack build. They can cast Solar Barrage and get 22s of Empower (as well as 20s of Minor Sorcery from a passive). Accelerate or Barbed Trap can be used for Minor Force, and either Camo Hunter or Vamp Bane for Major Savagery/Prophecy. In groups a DK often provides Major Sorcery and a healer gives Major Courage. You may as well use a better mythic, like Kilt or Mora's. Sorcerers rely on Oakensoul because they don't have access to long-duration Empower.

Some thoughts:

The build cited isn't focused on heavy attacks.
Oakensoul has Minor Courage, not Major Courage.
You seem to be ignoring Minor Slayer and Minor Berserk, along with other buffs.

Soarora · March 2023

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

I am glad you are enjoying Templar and getting into more content.

Since the major Templar changes, I have also switched my 2 Templars up and continue to enjoy them. One as a one bar Oakensoul heavy attack build, one as a two bar non Oakensoul heavy attack build. The one you chose looks different from either of the routes I went and looks fun.

I think a lot of the frustration with Templar changes is for two bar builds that do not utilize heavy attacks. Some of the bread and butter Templar abilities that filled out two bars were altered quite a bit and it forced one to go in new directions and/or pick more global abilities.

I am hoping your post does not attract people wanting to put you down for using Oakensoul as that seems to be a pretty contentious thing for some people currently but if it does, take heart and keep enjoying your Templar however you want to play them!

The problem with oakensoul nowadays has to do with oakensoul HA builds, not oakensoul itself. Back when the mythic came out I tried a one-bar templar and it actually made me enjoy the class (previously I did not like it at all). So... I'm actually pretty interested in seeing and maybe even trying this build, seems like it'd be fun.

endgamesmug · March 2023

I find the jabs nauseating myself but thats just me, i just switched my templars to range, so when i absolutely have to use them they are somewhat effective. I love hearing stories like this about people getting past that fear barrier, i try to help people with that with mixed results. Unfortunately alot of times i never see them again after achieving competency as they get kidnapped by the raiding community 😑

maxjapank · March 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

I keep seeing threads about how bad Templar is, but that is far from my experience. Because of my Templar, and my friend's encouragement, I am now enjoying content I never felt confident to try before.

When I've commented about how bad Templars are it's been about two things. 1) The new jab animation looks terrible. and 2) They lack competitiveness in pvp outside of being a rangeplar.

When it comes to pve content, especially dungeons, there is not much of a problem there. I have a two very nifty setups I use as a healer/dps on my two Templars. They make fast work of most everything, though they may not be the best at single-target dps. But again, I'm taking the role of heals first.

Templar 1: Front bar: Dark convergence, Back bar: Olorime Monster Magma. I will ocassionally run SPC instead of Olo. No one expects a healer to wear Dark convergence, but it absolutely makes for a smooth dungeon run. You can group a ton of adds for Solar Prison, though using Barrier as your main ulti means barely any healing is needed.

Templar 2: Front bar: Plaguebreak, 5p Rush of Agony, Back bar: Mael resto. This is sorta my stamplar healer. But again, most don't expect a healer to wear Rush, but it also makes for a smooth dungeon run. And when Plague pops, everything pops. Drag all the adds to the boss and the boss is halfway dead, too.

Dungeons are not a problem. The problems are in pvp, the animation of jabs, and from what I hear, a bit of suffering in trials. Go give pvp or trials a go and see what you think then.

SilverBride · March 2023

maxjapank wrote: »

Dungeons are not a problem. The problems are in pvp, the animation of jabs, and from what I hear, a bit of suffering in trials. Go give pvp or trials a go and see what you think then.

I have no interest in Trials, mostly because I don't want to be tied down to a schedule and have to be on a set length of time.

But I may to try out some battlegrounds, although I have little PvP experience and am not very good so I may not notice the difference!

maxjapank · March 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

I have no interest in Trials, mostly because I don't want to be tied down to a schedule and have to be on a set length of time.

I'm with you on trials. But to be perfectly honest, I just don't know why they haven't implemented a group finder for trials and for 4-man arenas (DSA/BRP). It is just not fun to have to sit in Craglorn or be tied down to a set schedule. I use dungeon finder just fine and in general, I get good groups, even in Vet dungeons. I suspect a group finder for trials would have similar results. Sure, not perfect. And some may not want to use the finder. Fine. Run with a guild or sit in Craglorn. But I suspect there would be many more participants and success by having one. It's way past time for them to implement something like this.

deejayvee · March 2023

I was using my Templars for pvp, so the U35 changes made me put them away. The new animation didn't help.

However, lately I have made 2 pve builds that have proven to be a lot of fun.

One is an Oakensoul HA with Deadly Strike and Order's Wrath rather than the meta HA sets because these buff the beam as well.

The other is an Oakensoul jabber with Pillar of Nirn and Tzovign's.

Neither one is going to set end game records, but they are both a lot of fun to play.

SilverBride · March 2023

I'm glad that others are enjoying their Templars, too. It's nice to hear positive feedback about a class I'm really enjoying.

Zodiarkslayer · March 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm using Hack the Minotaur's Magicka Templar Solo PvE One Bar Build. I am using Mother's Sorrow and Julianos until I get the rest of the suggested sets, and am using the Slimecraw Monster Helm but not the Shoulders.

That is a decent basic build. Deadly Strike and Order's Wrath are easy to get. So may I ask what is keeping you from getting them? That setup should be noticeably better than Julianos and Mother's Sorrow.

And have you tried or thought about getting two maces instead of the Lightning Staff? I mean a Templar is in melee range anyways. So why not use the Dual Wield in all its glory?
That boosted damage on my MagPlar considerably. And with it the healing of Sweeps.

I do not like Hack's choice of abilities, but that is okay. That's just me. I guess he's got his reasons.
Personally, I like to use only AoE's and one defense ability on the Templar, even with two bars. It feels much better this way. It's like there is this danger zone around me and anything that steps inside is melting away.

Ragnarok0130 · March 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I was an avid raider in other games but chilled out when I came to ESO. Lately I've been motivated to try Vet dungeons by a friend and we even duo'd one with our tank and healing Companions. This friend also encouraged me to check my damage on a raid target dummy at our guild's hall and I was shocked by how well my Templar did. None of my other characters perform nearly as well.

I keep seeing threads about how bad Templar is, but that is far from my experience. Because of my Templar, and my friend's encouragement, I am now enjoying content I never felt confident to try before.

I’m happy that you’re giving dungeons a shot, maybe I’ll heal you in a random! If you want to get into trials I can introduce you to some solid beginner friendly groups.

Regarding your point about Templar being good your experience needs to be contrasted to earlier iterations of templar for full context of the templar mains’ grievances as the class has been the target of numerous ZoS nerf beat downs. Just curious are you using a one bar, oakensoul or 2 bar build on your plar?

One bar Oakensoul.

Oakensoul has provided relief from some of the recent nerfs for many plar mains so it’s a good choice for a lot of content. DM me if you want to dip your toes into ESO raiding and I’ll send the discord details.

UnabashedlyHonest · March 2023

Very few veteran dungeons can be considered difficult content.

Templars are very much DOA when it comes to end game content and PvP, just like all the threads pointing this out have stated.

Maybe you could post a 2 minute parse for your templar for the rest of us to see how well your doing please?

Dagoth_Rac · March 2023

Templar is one of the easiest classes to get good numbers out of, but one of the hardest classes to get great numbers out of. Most of the complaints are from top-tier players who want A++++ numbers to compete with their peers. For like 99% of players, it is better to be a consistently good Templar player than to struggle with a complex build and rotation on another class.

Soarora · March 2023

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Very few veteran dungeons can be considered difficult content.

Templars are very much DOA when it comes to end game content and PvP, just like all the threads pointing this out have stated.

Maybe you could post a 2 minute parse for your templar for the rest of us to see how well your doing please?

What is difficult depends a lot on an individuals skills and interests and roles. Parses often take over 2 minutes. Doesn’t matter how much DPS OP does, they seem to be completing the content and that’s what matters.

freespirit · March 2023

I also used that build for my Templar, I say "used" because I have changed it slightly to suit my needs but it is great fun and I'm glad you are enjoying it!

I solo a lot of dungeons with it, often running from boss to boss, followed by many mobs, to then turn around and produce a huge pile of bodies.... jabs may have been changed BUT nothing produces huge piles of bodies so easily imo!

I usually let Bastian tag along and tank bosses when needed, which he does admirably, with the odd extra heal from me, I stay ranged mostly on bosses and make use of heavy attack and a couple of DoT's, it works even in vet dungeons.

I've recently made a HA pet Sorc because I wanted to compare the two different styles, my Templar uses full on Crit sets, my Sorc uses Sergeant's and Storm Master.

I absolutely hate pets but have to admit the damage is impressive, whilst I am playing the sorc a fair bit atm, last night I did some dungeons with my Templar because she's just FUN!!

kojou · March 2023

All classes are capable of doing "enough" damage. Some classes are able to do more than others, so if a group is trying to optimize for max DPS then the Templar gets left out. That said, as long as you meet the damage minimum with whatever class you like to play with most groups will let you bring whatever you want.

The main thing that made me stop running my Templar is the change to Empower. I don't like heavy attack builds and light attacks were a huge part of the Templar's DPS with Solar Barrage granting great uptime on Empower (when empower used to buff both light attacks and heavy attacks). I think the other weakness is that unlike some other classes (ahem DK and Necro) they don't have stamina options of the hardest hitting DoTs. This would give a boost to Templar sustain if they can balance how many Stamina vs Magicka skills to use and dip in both pools. Templar's class ultimates are pretty lackluster as well. I generally run Dawnbreaker and Meteor. I feel like Solar Prison is in bad need of a buff. It is so cool looking, but no one wants it for the mitigation in trials anymore and the damage is meh.

Templar's still have some things going for them though. Blazing Spear and Ritual of Retribution are great AoE's and have synergies to help with Alkosh uptime. Radiant Oppression is still arguably the best execute in the game. I think Puncturing Sweeps is still a great spammable in function (although I am still not a fan of the new animation).

Neoauspex · March 2023

Your exact same build would perform better on every other class. That's the case for every role and build except PvE healer. Templar isn't bad, especially for 4 man PvE content, it's just the worst of all the options.

Zodiarkslayer · March 2023

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Maybe you could post a 2 minute parse for your templar for the rest of us to see how well your doing please?

👀 ...
🤔 ...
21.000.000HP/120s = 175.000 dps
🤯 ...
🤦‍♂️

SilverBride · March 2023

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Deadly Strike and Order's Wrath are easy to get. So may I ask what is keeping you from getting them? That setup should be noticeably better than Julianos and Mother's Sorrow.

Nothing is stopping me. It's only been this past week that I've started running Vet dungeons and getting serious about improving my build and gear to something suitable for that content. So I got my first monster helm ever and plan to work on the gear sets next.

SilverBride · March 2023

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Maybe you could post a 2 minute parse for your templar for the rest of us to see how well your doing please?

I can once I figure out how.

All I know at this point is that I kill things much faster on my Templar than my other characters. When my friend was beating up the raid target dummy at our guild's hall I joined him out of curiosity. He told me I had nothing to worry about and could do Vet content fine even on my build that isn't finished yet. So far I've had no complaints in any groups I've joined.

What is considered a fair dps for Vet dungeons?