I've started running Vet dungeons because of my Templar

Zodiarkslayer

SilverBride wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Deadly Strike and Order's Wrath are easy to get. So may I ask what is keeping you from getting them? That setup should be noticeably better than Julianos and Mother's Sorrow.

Nothing is stopping me. It's only been this past week that I've started running Vet dungeons and getting serious about improving my build and gear to something suitable for that content. So I got my first monster helm ever and plan to work on the gear sets next.

Oh. So this is an alt character.
Sorry, hehe. It sounded like you played it for a long time and only noticed recently that you can do good dps. 😅

Deadly is easy to buy. Maces are dirt cheap on PCEU (don't know where you play) and armor is too. You will probably get purple jewelry for under 10k gold and can transmute to your preferred trait.
Lightning Staffs and Daggers are actually expensive, because of all the Templars that want Lightning Staffs and Daggers, right? 🤭

Since Order's Wrath is craftable you should probably draft your build before buying, so you know what to buy and what not. And save some money in the process.
I put deadly on the Feet, the Legs and the Chest with Necklace and a ring. That also increases Armor for quite a bit.

You should also decide what to put on the jewelry, because making Order's Wrath jewelry will cost you platings, but will have better stats on purple and gold quality. On the other side, Deadly Strike will always have the 15% damage bonus. It doesn't scale with equipment quality.

Nestor

SilverBride wrote: »

I keep seeing threads about how bad Templar is, but that is far from my experience. Because of my Templar, and my friend's encouragement, I am now enjoying content I never felt confident to try before.

Templars are an easy button for the game. Ignore the salt.

SilverBride

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Oh. So this is an alt character. Sorry, hehe. It sounded like you played it for a long time and only noticed recently that you can do good dps. 😅

I should have clarified. This character is fairly new and my first Templar. Once I reached level 50 and set up a build I was pleasantly surprised at how well she seemed to be performing. It's only because of this that I felt confident to try Vet dungeons.

Now I need to look at my other characters and see why they aren't performing as well.

Runefang

Neoauspex wrote: »

Your exact same build would perform better on every other class. That's the case for every role and build except PvE healer. Templar isn't bad, especially for 4 man PvE content, it's just the worst of all the options.

That’s absolutely not true. Wardens lack sustain, Blades and Sorcs lack AoE and Necros are lower damage. Dragonknights are simply the best.

Templars are still more played than Wardens and Nightblades in hard mode trials.

DKs and Cros have been top of the DPS pile for a long long time now.

Soarora

SilverBride wrote: »

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Maybe you could post a 2 minute parse for your templar for the rest of us to see how well your doing please?

I can once I figure out how.

All I know at this point is that I kill things much faster on my Templar than my other characters. When my friend was beating up the raid target dummy at our guild's hall I joined him out of curiosity. He told me I had nothing to worry about and could do Vet content fine even on my build that isn't finished yet. So far I've had no complaints in any groups I've joined.

What is considered a fair dps for Vet dungeons?

My understanding is 45k on trial dummy, but that’s an old number and was before the dummy got buffed. In-content dps varies widely from dungeon-to-dungeon. I do like 30-60k, rarely even 100k depending on fight. This is because of mechanics, buffs, debuffs, and how many enemies are there. Since you have a friend with you, you may be best off just progressing through dungeons to understand what is good DPS (averaging at 40-50% of the group dps, can see in combat metrics) rather than parsing (except to practice rotation if you need). You’ll really know when you need to do more dps when you fail a dps check, pretty much. If it happens, don’t feel too bad about it, it happens.

ArchangelIsraphel

Glad to hear you're enjoying Templar! I still love playing my Templar as well, he's the second "main" on my account and that hasn't changed since the nerfs/animation alterations (controvertial opinion, but I love the new animation, just wish it was smoother and used a better spear)

I also started doing vet content on my Templar, and got my first trifectas on him. Incidently he's also my PVP character when I swap builds- he's the one I got Emperor on, so I've had a lot of good times with him and I'm super attached to him. I refused to stop playing him and adapted to the changes just fine.

I still love the class in both pve and pvp, so it's great to see someone else stepping into vet content on a Templar. I'm really enjoying mine and have been experimenting with all kinds of different builds for both pvp and pve. I might try that hack the Minotaur one, it looks fun.

zaria

SilverBride wrote: »

I was an avid raider in other games but chilled out when I came to ESO. Lately I've been motivated to try Vet dungeons by a friend and we even duo'd one with our tank and healing Companions. This friend also encouraged me to check my damage on a raid target dummy at our guild's hall and I was shocked by how well my Templar did. None of my other characters perform nearly as well.

I keep seeing threads about how bad Templar is, but that is far from my experience. Because of my Templar, and my friend's encouragement, I am now enjoying content I never felt confident to try before.

Templar is not horrible but they was much better some updates ago.

They are easy to play and if you are a bit more advanced an magplar can go from DD with strong heals and change bar and gear to pure healer over multiple gearing.
Getting complemented for healing then you did not use an healing staff 😺 and you did 40% of damage with an real tank.
This was on a DD / heal setup.

kojou

SilverBride wrote: »

What is considered a fair dps for Vet dungeons?

Depends on which dungeon and whether you are doing Hard Mode. Getting 30-40k DPS in 4 person dungeons means you can do pretty much everything, but there are a lot of fights you can get through with much less DPS by just doing mechanics better. I wouldn't really worry about what someone says is a good number, but rather, see where you are currently at and work on improving things. Having a friend helps because you can start having contests to see who gets the biggest number on a fight.

The more damage you can do the more content that opens up for you though. My current trials guild wants 90K DPS on the trial dummy to be eligible for vet trial sign ups. IMO, 90K + indicates you have good gear and can perform a damage rotation with relative proficiency, but I know people that parse better than me on the dummy, but worse than me in trials because they either die more than me, or can't maintain a skill rotation and do mechanics. I tend to just work on my "parse" until I meet the minimum requirement and then stop, although lately I worked on it a bit more just to break 100k DPS to prove to myself I could do it.

maxjapank

SilverBride wrote: »

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Maybe you could post a 2 minute parse for your templar for the rest of us to see how well your doing please?

I can once I figure out how.

All I know at this point is that I kill things much faster on my Templar than my other characters. When my friend was beating up the raid target dummy at our guild's hall I joined him out of curiosity. He told me I had nothing to worry about and could do Vet content fine even on my build that isn't finished yet. So far I've had no complaints in any groups I've joined.

What is considered a fair dps for Vet dungeons?

If you want to kill things even faster, make a one-bar Oakensoul pet Sorc. Use the typical Seargent / storm master, slime setup. Two pets, a stronger burst heal for 2 people, and if you keep crit surge, you’ll continually heal yourself just from heavy attacking. It’ll make your Templar feel like more work, but maybe more work is more fun.

Tannus15

Trial dummy dps has very little in common with vet dungeons, I wouldn't get too concerned about hitting benchmark numbers.

Only DLC vet dungeons will fights really last long enough for full rotations and sustained dps, and even then burst damage is often more important.

Assuming you're playing on PC I recommend just having combat metrics and check what % of the damage you're doing.if it's less than 40% in a "classic" 2 dps, healer, tank group then you're probably under performing. The percentages shift if you have a fake healer and/or fake tank.

Oakensoul is a great way to start and as long as you're having fun on one bar, go nuts. it's very strong in 4 player or less content. If you get a pre-made group for doing HM or trifecta content then worry about moving off it as a lot o the buffs can come from a well setup tank and healer.

SilverBride

maxjapank wrote: »

If you want to kill things even faster, make a one-bar Oakensoul pet Sorc.

I appreciate the advice but I will never use pets on my Sorcerer. I just cannot stand those big flappy things in my face.

Besides I'm having a lot of fun with my Templar.

Nestor

SilverBride wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

If you want to kill things even faster, make a one-bar Oakensoul pet Sorc.

I appreciate the advice but I will never use pets on my Sorcerer. I just cannot stand those big flappy things in my face.

Besides I'm having a lot of fun with my Templar.

Yea, can't do the Pet Build on a Sorc either. The Twilight is the most annoying thing in the game. Stuga is breath of fresh air compared to the Twilight.....

I still have a good rotation on my Oaken Sorcerer without Pets.

SilverBride

Nestor wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

If you want to kill things even faster, make a one-bar Oakensoul pet Sorc.

I appreciate the advice but I will never use pets on my Sorcerer. I just cannot stand those big flappy things in my face.

Besides I'm having a lot of fun with my Templar.

Yea, can't do the Pet Build on a Sorc either. The Twilight is the most annoying thing in the game. Stuga is breath of fresh air compared to the Twilight.....

I still have a good rotation on my Oaken Sorcerer without Pets.

I'm curious what your build is because my Sorcerer is using Oakensoul but isn't performing all that well.

WrathOfInnos

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Many people are just upset about the jabs damage nerf and new animation. Templar has a few underpowered skills (Backlash and Sun Fire), but overall they are still good at dealing damage. They are a little behind Dragonknight in DPS, and on par with both Sorcerer and Necromancer. They rely heavily on their execute beam, and having a couple good AoE DoTs (Blazing Spear and Ritual of Retribution).

One thing to consider is that Oakensoul is not really needed on Templar, even on a heavy attack build. They can cast Solar Barrage and get 22s of Empower (as well as 20s of Minor Sorcery from a passive). Accelerate or Barbed Trap can be used for Minor Force, and either Camo Hunter or Vamp Bane for Major Savagery/Prophecy. In groups a DK often provides Major Sorcery and a healer gives Major Courage. You may as well use a better mythic, like Kilt or Mora's. Sorcerers rely on Oakensoul because they don't have access to long-duration Empower.

Some thoughts:

• The build cited isn't focused on heavy attacks.
• Oakensoul has Minor Courage, not Major Courage.
• You seem to be ignoring Minor Slayer and Minor Berserk, along with other buffs.

@FrancisCrawford Good points, you are correct. IIRC Oaken was major courage initially. It doesn't matter much though, since in group content tanks bring minor courage and healers bring major. Minor slayer is the 3pc on most of the best damage sets, so usually redundant. Minor berserk is obtained through Camo hunter or combat prayer. That's the problem with Oakensoul, it's buffs are so easy to obtain in other ways. Good for solo content (although competing with Pale Order and Thrassian Stranglers) but redundant if you are grouped with even 1-2 friends.

Tbh I didn't realize any builds were doing Light Attack weaving with Oaken. That sounds like it would be difficult to fill GCD's and end up overusing spammables. Often Oaken is used for empower to buff heavy attack builds, and there is little downside because builds holding left click can only fit 4-5 skills in a rotation. I suspect any light attack build would perform better with a gear swap, especially in group content.

Soarora

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Many people are just upset about the jabs damage nerf and new animation. Templar has a few underpowered skills (Backlash and Sun Fire), but overall they are still good at dealing damage. They are a little behind Dragonknight in DPS, and on par with both Sorcerer and Necromancer. They rely heavily on their execute beam, and having a couple good AoE DoTs (Blazing Spear and Ritual of Retribution).

One thing to consider is that Oakensoul is not really needed on Templar, even on a heavy attack build. They can cast Solar Barrage and get 22s of Empower (as well as 20s of Minor Sorcery from a passive). Accelerate or Barbed Trap can be used for Minor Force, and either Camo Hunter or Vamp Bane for Major Savagery/Prophecy. In groups a DK often provides Major Sorcery and a healer gives Major Courage. You may as well use a better mythic, like Kilt or Mora's. Sorcerers rely on Oakensoul because they don't have access to long-duration Empower.

Some thoughts:

• The build cited isn't focused on heavy attacks.
• Oakensoul has Minor Courage, not Major Courage.
• You seem to be ignoring Minor Slayer and Minor Berserk, along with other buffs.

@FrancisCrawford Good points, you are correct. IIRC Oaken was major courage initially. It doesn't matter much though, since in group content tanks bring minor courage and healers bring major. Minor slayer is the 3pc on most of the best damage sets, so usually redundant. Minor berserk is obtained through Camo hunter or combat prayer. That's the problem with Oakensoul, it's buffs are so easy to obtain in other ways. Good for solo content (although competing with Pale Order and Thrassian Stranglers) but redundant if you are grouped with even 1-2 friends.

Tbh I didn't realize any builds were doing Light Attack weaving with Oaken. That sounds like it would be difficult to fill GCD's and end up overusing spammables. Often Oaken is used for empower to buff heavy attack builds, and there is little downside because builds holding left click can only fit 4-5 skills in a rotation. I suspect any light attack build would perform better with a gear swap, especially in group content.

In dungeons, tanks don’t necessarily bring minor courage. In trials this is true but this is not about trials. Oakensoul is originally for one-bar non heavy attack builds, it got overtaken by heavy attacks when empower was added to it.

Personally, the reason why oakensoul helped me with Templar is because all the skills looked too similar to me, I just wanted to jab, and most importantly, I don’t like static rotations. But yes, 2-bar would do more damage than 1-bar.

Turtle_Bot

Glad to hear you're able to do more content and enjoying plar

SilverBride wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

If you want to kill things even faster, make a one-bar Oakensoul pet Sorc.

I appreciate the advice but I will never use pets on my Sorcerer. I just cannot stand those big flappy things in my face.

Besides I'm having a lot of fun with my Templar.

Yea, can't do the Pet Build on a Sorc either. The Twilight is the most annoying thing in the game. Stuga is breath of fresh air compared to the Twilight.....

I still have a good rotation on my Oaken Sorcerer without Pets.

I'm curious what your build is because my Sorcerer is using Oakensoul but isn't performing all that well.

Depending on what you want to do with your Oakensoul sorc, you can run a heavy attack build without pets.
Crit surge for passive healing as you deal damage
wall of elements for off balance proc
hurricane for a DoT that has a decent duration (can go lightning form if you want longer duration, but less damage)
Elemental susceptibility for breach the the triple status every 7 seconds
last choice is a flex spot, shields if you want to tank up, another DoT if you want more damage or bound aegis for more max magicka and health
Ultimate run power overload and use it when wall of elements procs off balance on enemies.

The gear would be the same sets as a regular heavy attack build (sergeants mail and storm master, 1 piece slimecraw and oakensoul).

If you want a more traditional 1 bar build something simple like orders wrath + mothers sorrow will do fine for most content.
similar bar set up to the heavy attack build skills I listed, except frags takes up your flex spot and is your spammable ability. can slot haunting curse or mages wrath in place of elemental susceptibility if your friend is already providing breach.

Traditional (non heavy attack) petless sorc builds will struggle in harder vet and HM content though, too much of the class's power is tied up in the pets.

FrancisCrawford

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Many people are just upset about the jabs damage nerf and new animation. Templar has a few underpowered skills (Backlash and Sun Fire), but overall they are still good at dealing damage. They are a little behind Dragonknight in DPS, and on par with both Sorcerer and Necromancer. They rely heavily on their execute beam, and having a couple good AoE DoTs (Blazing Spear and Ritual of Retribution).

One thing to consider is that Oakensoul is not really needed on Templar, even on a heavy attack build. They can cast Solar Barrage and get 22s of Empower (as well as 20s of Minor Sorcery from a passive). Accelerate or Barbed Trap can be used for Minor Force, and either Camo Hunter or Vamp Bane for Major Savagery/Prophecy. In groups a DK often provides Major Sorcery and a healer gives Major Courage. You may as well use a better mythic, like Kilt or Mora's. Sorcerers rely on Oakensoul because they don't have access to long-duration Empower.

Some thoughts:

• The build cited isn't focused on heavy attacks.
• Oakensoul has Minor Courage, not Major Courage.
• You seem to be ignoring Minor Slayer and Minor Berserk, along with other buffs.

@FrancisCrawford Good points, you are correct. IIRC Oaken was major courage initially. It doesn't matter much though, since in group content tanks bring minor courage and healers bring major. Minor slayer is the 3pc on most of the best damage sets, so usually redundant. Minor berserk is obtained through Camo hunter or combat prayer. That's the problem with Oakensoul, it's buffs are so easy to obtain in other ways. Good for solo content (although competing with Pale Order and Thrassian Stranglers) but redundant if you are grouped with even 1-2 friends.

Tbh I didn't realize any builds were doing Light Attack weaving with Oaken. That sounds like it would be difficult to fill GCD's and end up overusing spammables. Often Oaken is used for empower to buff heavy attack builds, and there is little downside because builds holding left click can only fit 4-5 skills in a rotation. I suspect any light attack build would perform better with a gear swap, especially in group content.

I don't think it's safe to assume that dungeon groups have all the buffs you listed. My dungeon experience is mainly duoing and PUGging, and in those scenarios trial sets cannot be assumed. Neither can Combat Prayer.

FrancisCrawford

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Glad to hear you're able to do more content and enjoying plar

SilverBride wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

If you want to kill things even faster, make a one-bar Oakensoul pet Sorc.

I appreciate the advice but I will never use pets on my Sorcerer. I just cannot stand those big flappy things in my face.

Besides I'm having a lot of fun with my Templar.

Yea, can't do the Pet Build on a Sorc either. The Twilight is the most annoying thing in the game. Stuga is breath of fresh air compared to the Twilight.....

I still have a good rotation on my Oaken Sorcerer without Pets.

I'm curious what your build is because my Sorcerer is using Oakensoul but isn't performing all that well.

Depending on what you want to do with your Oakensoul sorc, you can run a heavy attack build without pets.
Crit surge for passive healing as you deal damage
wall of elements for off balance proc
hurricane for a DoT that has a decent duration (can go lightning form if you want longer duration, but less damage)
Elemental susceptibility for breach the the triple status every 7 seconds
last choice is a flex spot, shields if you want to tank up, another DoT if you want more damage or bound aegis for more max magicka and health
Ultimate run power overload and use it when wall of elements procs off balance on enemies.

The gear would be the same sets as a regular heavy attack build (sergeants mail and storm master, 1 piece slimecraw and oakensoul).

If you want a more traditional 1 bar build something simple like orders wrath + mothers sorrow will do fine for most content.
similar bar set up to the heavy attack build skills I listed, except frags takes up your flex spot and is your spammable ability. can slot haunting curse or mages wrath in place of elemental susceptibility if your friend is already providing breach.

Traditional (non heavy attack) petless sorc builds will struggle in harder vet and HM content though, too much of the class's power is tied up in the pets.

I haven't done a lot of accurate testing. With Elemental Susceptibility. ~30% uptime on Off-Balance seems reasonable at a dummy, which is close to the theoretical maximum. What's realistic if one has another source of Major Breach?

As for Overload -- which heavy attack buffs does it get or not get? I know there was a change, and I suspect the tooltips are not wholly accurate? (I presume Off-Balance is a "Yes" based on the recommendation in your post, but how about Sergeant's Mail or Empower?)

FrancisCrawford

Soarora wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Many people are just upset about the jabs damage nerf and new animation. Templar has a few underpowered skills (Backlash and Sun Fire), but overall they are still good at dealing damage. They are a little behind Dragonknight in DPS, and on par with both Sorcerer and Necromancer. They rely heavily on their execute beam, and having a couple good AoE DoTs (Blazing Spear and Ritual of Retribution).

One thing to consider is that Oakensoul is not really needed on Templar, even on a heavy attack build. They can cast Solar Barrage and get 22s of Empower (as well as 20s of Minor Sorcery from a passive). Accelerate or Barbed Trap can be used for Minor Force, and either Camo Hunter or Vamp Bane for Major Savagery/Prophecy. In groups a DK often provides Major Sorcery and a healer gives Major Courage. You may as well use a better mythic, like Kilt or Mora's. Sorcerers rely on Oakensoul because they don't have access to long-duration Empower.

Some thoughts:

• The build cited isn't focused on heavy attacks.
• Oakensoul has Minor Courage, not Major Courage.
• You seem to be ignoring Minor Slayer and Minor Berserk, along with other buffs.

@FrancisCrawford Good points, you are correct. IIRC Oaken was major courage initially. It doesn't matter much though, since in group content tanks bring minor courage and healers bring major. Minor slayer is the 3pc on most of the best damage sets, so usually redundant. Minor berserk is obtained through Camo hunter or combat prayer. That's the problem with Oakensoul, it's buffs are so easy to obtain in other ways. Good for solo content (although competing with Pale Order and Thrassian Stranglers) but redundant if you are grouped with even 1-2 friends.

Tbh I didn't realize any builds were doing Light Attack weaving with Oaken. That sounds like it would be difficult to fill GCD's and end up overusing spammables. Often Oaken is used for empower to buff heavy attack builds, and there is little downside because builds holding left click can only fit 4-5 skills in a rotation. I suspect any light attack build would perform better with a gear swap, especially in group content.

In dungeons, tanks don’t necessarily bring minor courage. In trials this is true but this is not about trials. Oakensoul is originally for one-bar non heavy attack builds, it got overtaken by heavy attacks when empower was added to it.

Personally, the reason why oakensoul helped me with Templar is because all the skills looked too similar to me, I just wanted to jab, and most importantly, I don’t like static rotations. But yes, 2-bar would do more damage than 1-bar.

In trash fights, I find it hard to benefit from an elegant rotation anyway. Things die too quickly ....

Tannus15

As @WrathOfInnos points out, light attack oakensoul builds rely on LOTS of spammables and all the big spammables got nerfed down to standardised numbers.

This means that unless you're VERY fast with your spammables, you're just not going to hit great numbers. your dps is basically going to come down to light weave + spammables per minute. This is where most people struggle with sorc dps in general.
speed matters most for nightblade (focus proc rotation), sorc (spammable / frag procs) and 1 bar builds.

Runefang

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Many people are just upset about the jabs damage nerf and new animation. Templar has a few underpowered skills (Backlash and Sun Fire), but overall they are still good at dealing damage. They are a little behind Dragonknight in DPS, and on par with both Sorcerer and Necromancer. They rely heavily on their execute beam, and having a couple good AoE DoTs (Blazing Spear and Ritual of Retribution).

One thing to consider is that Oakensoul is not really needed on Templar, even on a heavy attack build. They can cast Solar Barrage and get 22s of Empower (as well as 20s of Minor Sorcery from a passive). Accelerate or Barbed Trap can be used for Minor Force, and either Camo Hunter or Vamp Bane for Major Savagery/Prophecy. In groups a DK often provides Major Sorcery and a healer gives Major Courage. You may as well use a better mythic, like Kilt or Mora's. Sorcerers rely on Oakensoul because they don't have access to long-duration Empower.

Some thoughts:

• The build cited isn't focused on heavy attacks.
• Oakensoul has Minor Courage, not Major Courage.
• You seem to be ignoring Minor Slayer and Minor Berserk, along with other buffs.

@FrancisCrawford Good points, you are correct. IIRC Oaken was major courage initially. It doesn't matter much though, since in group content tanks bring minor courage and healers bring major. Minor slayer is the 3pc on most of the best damage sets, so usually redundant. Minor berserk is obtained through Camo hunter or combat prayer. That's the problem with Oakensoul, it's buffs are so easy to obtain in other ways. Good for solo content (although competing with Pale Order and Thrassian Stranglers) but redundant if you are grouped with even 1-2 friends.

Tbh I didn't realize any builds were doing Light Attack weaving with Oaken. That sounds like it would be difficult to fill GCD's and end up overusing spammables. Often Oaken is used for empower to buff heavy attack builds, and there is little downside because builds holding left click can only fit 4-5 skills in a rotation. I suspect any light attack build would perform better with a gear swap, especially in group content.

FWIW most light attack Oakensoul builds hit the same dps or just a bit higher than HA builds do. So for dungeons it can be pretty good since you’re rarely getting out a full rotation anyway and you’re so tanky with all those defensive buffs. Also you don’t need to use good pots for those RND normals.

Turtle_Bot

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Glad to hear you're able to do more content and enjoying plar

SilverBride wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

If you want to kill things even faster, make a one-bar Oakensoul pet Sorc.

I appreciate the advice but I will never use pets on my Sorcerer. I just cannot stand those big flappy things in my face.

Besides I'm having a lot of fun with my Templar.

Yea, can't do the Pet Build on a Sorc either. The Twilight is the most annoying thing in the game. Stuga is breath of fresh air compared to the Twilight.....

I still have a good rotation on my Oaken Sorcerer without Pets.

I'm curious what your build is because my Sorcerer is using Oakensoul but isn't performing all that well.

Depending on what you want to do with your Oakensoul sorc, you can run a heavy attack build without pets.
Crit surge for passive healing as you deal damage
wall of elements for off balance proc
hurricane for a DoT that has a decent duration (can go lightning form if you want longer duration, but less damage)
Elemental susceptibility for breach the the triple status every 7 seconds
last choice is a flex spot, shields if you want to tank up, another DoT if you want more damage or bound aegis for more max magicka and health
Ultimate run power overload and use it when wall of elements procs off balance on enemies.

The gear would be the same sets as a regular heavy attack build (sergeants mail and storm master, 1 piece slimecraw and oakensoul).

If you want a more traditional 1 bar build something simple like orders wrath + mothers sorrow will do fine for most content.
similar bar set up to the heavy attack build skills I listed, except frags takes up your flex spot and is your spammable ability. can slot haunting curse or mages wrath in place of elemental susceptibility if your friend is already providing breach.

Traditional (non heavy attack) petless sorc builds will struggle in harder vet and HM content though, too much of the class's power is tied up in the pets.

I haven't done a lot of accurate testing. With Elemental Susceptibility. ~30% uptime on Off-Balance seems reasonable at a dummy, which is close to the theoretical maximum. What's realistic if one has another source of Major Breach?

As for Overload -- which heavy attack buffs does it get or not get? I know there was a change, and I suspect the tooltips are not wholly accurate? (I presume Off-Balance is a "Yes" based on the recommendation in your post, but how about Sergeant's Mail or Empower?)

Off balance is still very common with lightning wall, if another source of breach is available (friend/companion), just take your pick of whatever you want to try out in place of ele sus.

As for overload heavy attacks, it looks like overload gets buffed by everything since it's technically still a heavy attack, but I'm not entirely sure about this since there's no tooltips/official source that I've seen that confirms or denies it.
I use overload as an additional burst when off balance is proc'd because when holding it down there's no end to the heavy attack unless you let go of the button or run out of ultimate so you lose damage by stopping to refresh other skills at which point might as well switch back to non-overload heavy attacks and build ultimate back up.

SilverBride

I'm curious about Hack the Minotaur's Magicka Templar Solo PvE One Bar Build that I am using and wondering why the sets and alternate sets he recommends both have one PvP set.

I was going to start switching out my sets for his recommended ones but don't intend to PvP much, if at all, and don't know if these sets would really be more helpful than the Mother's Sorrow (which is one of his alternate sets) and Julianos sets I am currently using.

Soarora

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm curious about Hack the Minotaur's Magicka Templar Solo PvE One Bar Build that I am using and wondering why the sets and alternate sets he recommends both have one PvP set.

I was going to start switching out my sets for his recommended ones but don't intend to PvP much, if at all, and don't know if these sets would really be more helpful than the Mother's Sorrow (which is one of his alternate sets) and Julianos sets I am currently using.

Deadly Strike buffs channeled abilities, which means it buffs your jabs and execute. The nice thing about it being PvP-sourced is that its buyable in guild traders.

SilverBride

Soarora wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm curious about Hack the Minotaur's Magicka Templar Solo PvE One Bar Build that I am using and wondering why the sets and alternate sets he recommends both have one PvP set.

I was going to start switching out my sets for his recommended ones but don't intend to PvP much, if at all, and don't know if these sets would really be more helpful than the Mother's Sorrow (which is one of his alternate sets) and Julianos sets I am currently using.

Deadly Strike buffs channeled abilities, which means it buffs your jabs and execute. The nice thing about it being PvP-sourced is that its buyable in guild traders.

Oh awesome! Thanks!

frogthroat

Excellent. If you are not that into trials, but you duo dungeons with your friend, that's almost a solo playstyle. If you want to do more solo stuff, you can...

• Use Magicka Templar, hands down the best solo class
• Get yourself Ring of the Pale Order
• While one bar can be good, practice two bars because in solo play you will need both bars
• If you want to solo something like Bloodroot Forge or Scalecaller Peak you want to open Psijic Ultimate and morph it to Precognition. Although with enough DOTs Bloodroot is doable without Precognition.
• Deadly Strike mentioned above is an excellent set for Templars. Not so much for any other class.
• Plaguebreak is a great set for stack and bomb (use trash to bomb the boss) -- enough ads and you can one shot some bosses
• Plaguebreak and jabs are a brilliant combo. Most abilities hit once a second, jabs are 3 AOE hits per second -> quickly infect all the ads
• Mechanical Acuity, and many other off-meta sets are actually really good in solo play (also, use axes instead of daggers with Mechanical Acuity)
• Don't underestimate Ritual. It's big. Expensive, but big. If your sustain allows, use Ritual.
• While in an organised raid group you would use a lot of medium armour even as a magDD, in solo you want as many light pieces as possible.
• Solo setup may look significantly different from raid setup. For example, I typically have one piece monster (Slimecraw for crit, Magma Incarnate for sustain, Valkyn Skoria if I have two medium armour sets), shoulders/head (one or the other) and arms, legs, waist and feet as one light set, the other set is chest, neck, ring and front bar daggers (most of the time) or axes (if using a set that gives 100% crit chance), and maelstrom back bar. The other ring being PO. The reason for setting the pieces this way is that if I use a medium armour set for the second set, the chest is best to be the non-light set.
• Get Maelstrom staff - preferably both lightning and inferno staff.
• Install Wizard's Wardrobe addon for quickly switching sets between encounters
• Get that Undaunted skill line higher so you get the health bonus for each type of armour. It will help.
• Vampire is not needed in PVE... except in solo play stage 3 with the undeath passive can be useful, provided your sustain allows it. It's just a bit of extra tankiness at the cost of increased ability cost (and more flame damage). Not a must, but can be helpful. Basically depends on your taste.
• While companions can be useful, I like to challenge myself without them. PO is my healer, Channeled Focus (major resolve) and sometimes Resolving Vigor (minor resolve) are my tank, along with Power of the Light (minor breach) and Caltrops/Weakness to Elements (major breach).
• Even if you don't like trials, farm some trial sets, even if they are the non-perfected ones. They do help a lot. Not mandatory, but they help.

Some of these tips I have learned from Lucht, the undisputed king of soloers, so I would recommend also checking out his videos.

Zodiarkslayer

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm curious about Hack the Minotaur's Magicka Templar Solo PvE One Bar Build that I am using and wondering why the sets and alternate sets he recommends both have one PvP set.

I was going to start switching out my sets for his recommended ones but don't intend to PvP much, if at all, and don't know if these sets would really be more helpful than the Mother's Sorrow (which is one of his alternate sets) and Julianos sets I am currently using.

Hack recommends based on necessity and availability.

Deadly Strike is for raw damage, because all your DoTs, Sweeps and Beam are buffed. So if there is a mechanic that requires a dps check, for example, or if you like to cut things down faster, this is a good choice.

Light of Cyrodiil is a defense set, that will give you a flat 15% damage reduction when you use Sweeps. Combined with the templar passive that gives you minor protection and maybe if you are a high elf, too, you will end up pretty tanky, even with 5 pieces light armor. Fits perfectly if you need to power through an ad wave or just need to stand in a ground DoT.

Like I said before PvP sets can be bought for cheap, because most PvPer just want to get rid of them and there are a lot of

SilverBride

Well I got the recommended sets and completed all the Veteran base game dungeons. I guess I did ok because no one complained.

I was going to start on the Veteran DLC dungeons today and queue'd for Coral Aerie which was a pledge. It was definitely more difficult that the base game dungeons, but ok until the final boss. After several wipes I just gave up and left.

I guess I will abandon my plan to get the rest of the busts for my Trophy display I'm constructing at Coldharbour Surreal Estate because it was just not worth the frustration. But I never thought I'd get this far so...

frogthroat

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Deadly Strike is for raw damage, because all your DoTs, Sweeps and Beam are buffed.

This is an excellent set for Templars. For other classes there are better ones, but specifically for templars due to jabs and beam being channels, this is great. I am guessing this set will be useful for the new Arcanist class as well, so I expect the price go up in June.