Seen this in NWO and usually the price can change rather quickly. Especially when crowns go on sale, when gold become available as a daily reward, when the game provides double gold, when specific items hit the crown store like crates etc...

If someone plays the system they can earn millions in crowns and gold with putting a small investment into gold and knowing when to buy and sell either crowns or gold.

IMO adding that type of system would work better only if there is a central market place for all items being sold through guild traders.

They could add a new tradable item that can be bought in the crown store, lets call it a crown box.
It would come in the sames size as the crown pack and cost that amount. So a 1500 crown box would cost 1500 crown.
Upon using these box the player would receive the contained amount of crown. If oppened by mistake you could just purchase another box with it.
Thes box would be tradable dirrectly between player or via guild store

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Not only is this massively QoL in Gw2, but this would be a massive gold sink that we desperately need rn in eso.

I don't think it would actually take gold out of the game unless there was a steep tax on each transaction. It would only redistribute the gold.

I saw the title thread and my first thought was "yeah like the one in GW2". Was pleasantly surprised when OP was meaning just that himself. It is a good system, and it works there very well.

Danikat wrote: »

So one person buys gems with real money and exchanges them for gold. Then the game holds those gems until someone else wants to buy them with gold. I've never seen it happen but if too many people bought gems at the same time the supply could run out and then the exchange would be unavailable until enough people traded some in. (And the same for gold.)

That is partially incorrect. The way it works in GW2 is that game has two "boxes" one with gems, and other with gold, when trade occurs, relevant amount is substracted from the box with purchased currency, and added to the box with currency used to pay. The exchange rate is dictated by geometric function comparing the amount of both currencies in their respective boxes.

The function to determine current price is such, that the exchange rates spikes up more, the bigger the disbalance in the currencies in the boxes. in particular the last gem in the system would take impossible amount of gold to purchase, but at such point, buying gems would also give silly amount of gold, which at that point would definitelly encourage "someone" to refill gems in the system by selling them for gold.

Basically the short version is there there is not enough gold in whole of GW2 to actually run the gems in the exchange dry.

ForzaRammer wrote: »

MrGarlic wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

MrGarlic wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Just no, it’s basically an auction center for crowns.

I am 100% against it.

We have that regardless due to rules agsaint it basically being impossible to enforce, however supply an offical location would make scams and ripping people off a hell of a lot harder to achieve

The central exchange will also take away the haggling and shop around, no thx.

And eliminate scamming, reducing the load on customer support and improving the customer experience.

Scams exist IRL, shop around for good exchange rate exist IRL.
[snip]
Making it less similar to RL is not 'better customer experience'.

1. Scams are illegal in most countries and perpetrators are punished by law.
2. How is a trading mechanism dumb? Your comment makes no sense to me.
3. I will NEVER advocate scamming or other similar behaviour and will attempt to uphold fairness and equity to all people.

I can't understand how you think scamming should be permissible. I am totally opposed to your point of view.

1. Being legal is not a prerequisite for existence, mimic real life is to add rules and punishments (which already exist) not a central exchange.
2. [snip] your suggestion is further away from real life trading than the current one
3. I never advocate for ‘scamming’ either. I advocate for non existence of central exchange.

I can perfectly understand your attempt creating a central exchange, and using ‘scam’ as an excuse to rid of any existence of market competition.

You were totally opposed to my view points before you even posted this thread.

More importantly, if your intention is simply to avoid ‘scam’, you’d advocate for crowns for sale in the guild trader. Which you don’t, because you want central exchange.

[edited for rude/insulting comment & to remove quote]

On the contrary, I would like to see 'a system' of some sort to enable safe transfer of gold for crowns between players in game.

Relying on 'trusted guilds' and using third party systems such as Discord is not ideal. Spamming in zone chat for exchanges is also not ideal and relies on trusting a total stranger. A zone chat exchange is how one of my guild-mates was scammed.

Eve Online has a system for trading on the market as well, which I have used and would recommend as an idea for implementing in ESO. I have used the Guild Wars 2 exchange which works well.

When Zos implemented 'gifting' in the game, not adding a crown/gold exchange seemed to me to be an oversight. They have their reasons which they are keeping private and are entitled to do so.

gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

Crown exchange is already a big part of the game however we have to relly on discord servers while buying and selling crowns, we have to pay a fortune to middleman, we have to deal with scammers and then there is this random gold/crown exchange rate based on absolutely nothing.

We could really benefit from an ingame exchange tab controlled by the developers themselves. Guild Wars 2 already has this system and prices scale on based on the purchases made in game in real time and it works perfectly, Eso has no reason to really on third party management for crown exchange.

This isnt Guild wars 2 and also if they did the prices of all the things in gold would go thru the roof game economy would be so screwed up eso has its ways to make and earn there cash to pay the bills

Eh? That most definitely guild wars 2. Prices in gw2 is pretty damn good, although over there are deflation issues due to other massive gold sinks. Eso barely has any gold sinks and a rampant inflation issue.

Trejgon wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

Crown exchange is already a big part of the game however we have to relly on discord servers while buying and selling crowns, we have to pay a fortune to middleman, we have to deal with scammers and then there is this random gold/crown exchange rate based on absolutely nothing.

We could really benefit from an ingame exchange tab controlled by the developers themselves. Guild Wars 2 already has this system and prices scale on based on the purchases made in game in real time and it works perfectly, Eso has no reason to really on third party management for crown exchange.

This isnt Guild wars 2 and also if they did the prices of all the things in gold would go thru the roof game economy would be so screwed up eso has its ways to make and earn there cash to pay the bills

Eh? That most definitely guild wars 2. Prices in gw2 is pretty damn good, although over there are deflation issues due to other massive gold sinks. Eso barely has any gold sinks and a rampant inflation issue.

I think they meant is as an ergument that ESO is not GW2 so "we don't need those pesky GW2 things over here", coupled with severe misunderstanding of how GW2's currency exchange system works, which would imply gw2only1b14_eso did not in fact rea the rest of the thread, because the system has been explained a number of times

Ahhhhhhhh. I mean I've only just literally woken up, so brain is being lil stupid right now.

But yes, GW2's exchange system is actually amazing. Sitting at RIBA/Dragonfall - my bae/drizzlewood etc. for a few hours and converting the money made to MTX currency is a huge QoL. It's a fantastic gold sink as well. Something ZoS should do, but doubt they ever will.

Blackbird_V wrote: »

gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

Crown exchange is already a big part of the game however we have to relly on discord servers while buying and selling crowns, we have to pay a fortune to middleman, we have to deal with scammers and then there is this random gold/crown exchange rate based on absolutely nothing.

We could really benefit from an ingame exchange tab controlled by the developers themselves. Guild Wars 2 already has this system and prices scale on based on the purchases made in game in real time and it works perfectly, Eso has no reason to really on third party management for crown exchange.

This isnt Guild wars 2 and also if they did the prices of all the things in gold would go thru the roof game economy would be so screwed up eso has its ways to make and earn there cash to pay the bills

Eh? That most definitely guild wars 2. Prices in gw2 is pretty damn good, although over there are deflation issues due to other massive gold sinks. Eso barely has any gold sinks and a rampant inflation issue.

I think they meant ESO isn't GW2 and therefore shouldn't have features GW2 has (which would be an odd position to take given so many systems already do have equivalents in both games).

Whether or not it would cause inflation depends on how the system is set up. If it was done like the GW2 exchange it wouldn't create any new gold or crowns, just facilitate moving them from one player to another, so that would be a non-issue. If there was also a tax on trades like there is on using guild stores it would actually drain some gold and crowns out of the economy. (When a player lists an item on a guild store they pay 1% of the selling price as a fee, and that gold just disappears from the game, when it sells 7% of what the buyer paid goes as a fee, half to the guild bank and half disappears.)

But I think the dynamic exchange rate is the most important factor in stopping inflation, because it means if too many people trade the same way in a short space of time it gets very expensive to do that. Although as I understand it the current player-run gold to crowns exchanges are largely driven by people wanting crowns, not by people wanting gold, and the exchange rates consistently favour people selling crowns so I'd expect an official one to be the same. At first there might be a lot of fluctuation as more people discover and try the system (and because many people wouldn't be sure what's a good exchange rate) but that would settle down.

Trejgon wrote: »

I saw the title thread and my first thought was "yeah like the one in GW2". Was pleasantly surprised when OP was meaning just that himself. It is a good system, and it works there very well.

Danikat wrote: »

So one person buys gems with real money and exchanges them for gold. Then the game holds those gems until someone else wants to buy them with gold. I've never seen it happen but if too many people bought gems at the same time the supply could run out and then the exchange would be unavailable until enough people traded some in. (And the same for gold.)

That is partially incorrect. The way it works in GW2 is that game has two "boxes" one with gems, and other with gold, when trade occurs, relevant amount is substracted from the box with purchased currency, and added to the box with currency used to pay. The exchange rate is dictated by geometric function comparing the amount of both currencies in their respective boxes.

The function to determine current price is such, that the exchange rates spikes up more, the bigger the disbalance in the currencies in the boxes. in particular the last gem in the system would take impossible amount of gold to purchase, but at such point, buying gems would also give silly amount of gold, which at that point would definitelly encourage "someone" to refill gems in the system by selling them for gold.

Basically the short version is there there is not enough gold in whole of GW2 to actually run the gems in the exchange dry.

Yes, that's what I said in the paragraphs below the one you quoted.

Blackbird_V wrote: »

gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

Crown exchange is already a big part of the game however we have to relly on discord servers while buying and selling crowns, we have to pay a fortune to middleman, we have to deal with scammers and then there is this random gold/crown exchange rate based on absolutely nothing.

We could really benefit from an ingame exchange tab controlled by the developers themselves. Guild Wars 2 already has this system and prices scale on based on the purchases made in game in real time and it works perfectly, Eso has no reason to really on third party management for crown exchange.

This isnt Guild wars 2 and also if they did the prices of all the things in gold would go thru the roof game economy would be so screwed up eso has its ways to make and earn there cash to pay the bills

Eh? That most definitely guild wars 2. Prices in gw2 is pretty damn good, although over there are deflation issues due to other massive gold sinks. Eso barely has any gold sinks and a rampant inflation issue.

On PSNA, prices were steady but they have been declining for a while now. I'm waiting to see what happens when the next chapter drops but I wouldn't be surprised if we're in a state of deflation ATM. The gold sinks are actually very solid without add-ons messing things up.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

Crown exchange is already a big part of the game however we have to relly on discord servers while buying and selling crowns, we have to pay a fortune to middleman, we have to deal with scammers and then there is this random gold/crown exchange rate based on absolutely nothing.

We could really benefit from an ingame exchange tab controlled by the developers themselves. Guild Wars 2 already has this system and prices scale on based on the purchases made in game in real time and it works perfectly, Eso has no reason to really on third party management for crown exchange.

This isnt Guild wars 2 and also if they did the prices of all the things in gold would go thru the roof game economy would be so screwed up eso has its ways to make and earn there cash to pay the bills

Eh? That most definitely guild wars 2. Prices in gw2 is pretty damn good, although over there are deflation issues due to other massive gold sinks. Eso barely has any gold sinks and a rampant inflation issue.

On PSNA, prices were steady but they have been declining for a while now. I'm waiting to see what happens when the next chapter drops but I wouldn't be surprised if we're in a state of deflation ATM. The gold sinks are actually very solid without add-ons messing things up.

Unfortunately PC EU is insane with inflation.

Crowns are (crown:gold ratio) 1:2000.

In addition I've only recently started playing again since late 2021. Here are some prices back then to now:

Dreugh Wax - Then: 8000 - 9500g average. Now: 23 000 - 26 000g
Chromium Plating - Then: 160 000 - 180 000g average. Now: 270 000 - 290 000g
Tempering Alloy - Then: 4500 - 6000g. Now: 8500 - 10 000g
Perfect Roe - Then: 8000 - 11 000g. Now: 90 000 - 99 000g
Crowns - Then: 1:800 - 1:1000g. Now: 1:1800 - 1:2000g

I think a more secure system is a good thing. However, it will increase drastically the price of crowns. Be careful what you wish for.

MrGarlic wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

MrGarlic wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

MrGarlic wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Just no, it’s basically an auction center for crowns.

I am 100% against it.

We have that regardless due to rules agsaint it basically being impossible to enforce, however supply an offical location would make scams and ripping people off a hell of a lot harder to achieve

The central exchange will also take away the haggling and shop around, no thx.

And eliminate scamming, reducing the load on customer support and improving the customer experience.

Scams exist IRL, shop around for good exchange rate exist IRL.
[snip]
Making it less similar to RL is not 'better customer experience'.

1. Scams are illegal in most countries and perpetrators are punished by law.
2. How is a trading mechanism dumb? Your comment makes no sense to me.
3. I will NEVER advocate scamming or other similar behaviour and will attempt to uphold fairness and equity to all people.

I can't understand how you think scamming should be permissible. I am totally opposed to your point of view.

1. Being legal is not a prerequisite for existence, mimic real life is to add rules and punishments (which already exist) not a central exchange.
2. [snip] your suggestion is further away from real life trading than the current one
3. I never advocate for ‘scamming’ either. I advocate for non existence of central exchange.

I can perfectly understand your attempt creating a central exchange, and using ‘scam’ as an excuse to rid of any existence of market competition.

You were totally opposed to my view points before you even posted this thread.

More importantly, if your intention is simply to avoid ‘scam’, you’d advocate for crowns for sale in the guild trader. Which you don’t, because you want central exchange.

[edited for rude/insulting comment & to remove quote]

On the contrary, I would like to see 'a system' of some sort to enable safe transfer of gold for crowns between players in game.

Relying on 'trusted guilds' and using third party systems such as Discord is not ideal. Spamming in zone chat for exchanges is also not ideal and relies on trusting a total stranger. A zone chat exchange is how one of my guild-mates was scammed.

Eve Online has a system for trading on the market as well, which I have used and would recommend as an idea for implementing in ESO. I have used the Guild Wars 2 exchange which works well.

When Zos implemented 'gifting' in the game, not adding a crown/gold exchange seemed to me to be an oversight. They have their reasons which they are keeping private and are entitled to do so.

A central exchange is nowhere similar to decentralized retail stores.

Centralized exchange does not reflect real life and does not improve customer experience.

None of the reasons you provided is any support for centralized exchange, guild traders are “scam” free too.

ForzaRammer wrote: »

MrGarlic wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

MrGarlic wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

MrGarlic wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Just no, it’s basically an auction center for crowns.

I am 100% against it.

We have that regardless due to rules agsaint it basically being impossible to enforce, however supply an offical location would make scams and ripping people off a hell of a lot harder to achieve

The central exchange will also take away the haggling and shop around, no thx.

And eliminate scamming, reducing the load on customer support and improving the customer experience.

Scams exist IRL, shop around for good exchange rate exist IRL.
[snip]
Making it less similar to RL is not 'better customer experience'.

1. Scams are illegal in most countries and perpetrators are punished by law.
2. How is a trading mechanism dumb? Your comment makes no sense to me.
3. I will NEVER advocate scamming or other similar behaviour and will attempt to uphold fairness and equity to all people.

I can't understand how you think scamming should be permissible. I am totally opposed to your point of view.

1. Being legal is not a prerequisite for existence, mimic real life is to add rules and punishments (which already exist) not a central exchange.
2. [snip] your suggestion is further away from real life trading than the current one
3. I never advocate for ‘scamming’ either. I advocate for non existence of central exchange.

I can perfectly understand your attempt creating a central exchange, and using ‘scam’ as an excuse to rid of any existence of market competition.

You were totally opposed to my view points before you even posted this thread.

More importantly, if your intention is simply to avoid ‘scam’, you’d advocate for crowns for sale in the guild trader. Which you don’t, because you want central exchange.

[edited for rude/insulting comment & to remove quote]

On the contrary, I would like to see 'a system' of some sort to enable safe transfer of gold for crowns between players in game.

Relying on 'trusted guilds' and using third party systems such as Discord is not ideal. Spamming in zone chat for exchanges is also not ideal and relies on trusting a total stranger. A zone chat exchange is how one of my guild-mates was scammed.

Eve Online has a system for trading on the market as well, which I have used and would recommend as an idea for implementing in ESO. I have used the Guild Wars 2 exchange which works well.

When Zos implemented 'gifting' in the game, not adding a crown/gold exchange seemed to me to be an oversight. They have their reasons which they are keeping private and are entitled to do so.

A central exchange is nowhere similar to decentralized retail stores.

Centralized exchange does not reflect real life and does not improve customer experience.

None of the reasons you provided is any support for centralized exchange, guild traders are “scam” free too.

RL

There are regarding Big Finance some similarities between ESO and RL
But also differences that matter

A simple and also huge difference is that in RL you can borrow money and there is a big and diverse trade in borrowings.

Interests on borrowings are strongly influenced by a Central Bank who also strongly influences the amount of money in circulation and the inflation.


All in all I would not use arguments from RL but directly argue with finance & economy arguments of the ESO setting.
(whereby RL can be a pool for poster to find hypotheses for insight and arguments... but no more than that imo)