Not really had a problem with the theme but some of the abilities are a bit odd. Like summoning a baby netch to give you mag/stam...just why? how does that even work lore-wise?

NeKryXe wrote: »

Sorcerer > I hate the intrusive combat pets. I avoid it in all builds.

Warden > Again... I hate the combat pet, but also all visual effects.

Anyway, from what we can see at the moment of Arcanist, it will be the most hideous theme on a class in all Elder Scrolls world. Those excessive green lights effects seem to be horrendous.

Worse than necro’s cyan/purple umbilical cords and cartoony tombstones and throwing skulls? I don’t want to see anything more hideous and silly! There are a few skills I like in the class but overall really disappointing IMHO.

I've always had a problem with the Dragonknight, because of their whip skill. I thought the DKs were hella-cool, until I found that a key spammable was a whip animation. A whip is a horrific weapon. it is not an effective battlefield weapon, and is used to deliver pain not death. A whip is a weapon control for an enslaver, and I am disturbed to see it used in a game like this. I don't run chaotic evil builds, i've always run my DKs with something other than this skill.

OBJnoob wrote: »

Can't resist but say one more thing, sorry.

I agree that the Warden theme is lacking. They do frost damage and magic damage. They do bleed damage and they do poison damage. It does feel like they fail to stick to a theme.

But as far as Druids go... My parents are modern day Wiccans. They belong to a diverse Coven that welcomes and to a certain extent even combines a lot of different religions and pantheons. Some of them are druids, native american-ish, wiccan, pagan, and others. They do, and I suspect ancient Druids did, worship and revere winter/ice/frost. They have a holiday of celebration on the Winter Solstice which I believe they call Saturnalia. Similarly to how someone else said fire is used by man to burn off growth and leave fertile soil for other uses... Mother nature does the same thing but with frost. Things grow and this must be revered. Things die and this must also be revered. Druids are more likely to find spiritual a change of the earth brought about by the earth than a change of earth brought about by man. Not that they probably didn't farm or hunt, but still.

Like I said, I play mine, and I like it, but the theme is what keeps it from being my favorite class. Its all taste. I dont think that theres a wrong answer.

The Wiccan angle is intersting and I agree, it also illustrate why I find them incoherent.

Water is essential to life, but isnt a form of life itself. Its certainly part of nature, but it isnt a form of life itself while the other two lines are. Ice is the result of water freezing. Thematically wind would be the result of a change as well and neither are life itself. Ice and wind would be closer in theme than ice and shalks, for example. They're both the result of change. In their case, tempurature.

If the 3rd skill line in the Warden had have been organic, I would indeed find them more coherent thematically. I prefer the ice theme more. In fact, its a large part of the reason why I like the class. I can see why folks who want them to be more of a druid archetype might prefer the ice were replaced with something else though.

I still play mine. I still like it. Mechanically I like them. Its not my favorite and thats why. Its still a good class though.

Love the warden class idea, but it feels wrong for a warden to have so many Vvardenfell themes (fetcher fly, muhsrooms, netch, shalk, cliff racer). I would think a warden might be more Grahtwood themed maybe. Also the ice theme to the warden build is still poop. Just my opinion.

I LOVE my lightning sorc. I HATE the daedric pets.

Yes. I am a nightblade main. I think that the stamina version of the class fits the description of it to the ''T'': The classical stealthy rogue who uses stealth, dual wield daggers, and medium armor.

But when it comes to the magicka, i could not be more disappointed. I mean, your powers as a magicka nightblade healer is based moreso around leeching off of your enemies, rather than using the power of darkness or something like that directly. And even if you do, it costs your health. I mean, whenever i play as a magicka nightblade, i feel like i am playing a vampire. If i wanted to play as a vampire, i can just get a bite from someone else and become one. It is as if the magicka nightblade does not even have an identity, in my opinion.

tl,dr: stamblade makes more sense than the magblade, and this disappoints me.

noblecron wrote: »

I love all the classes but damn do I have gripes with some of them.

I love templar. It's my fav class but. I hate the changes to some of the skills. Poor jabs. I also hate how stendarr focused it is. Give me some lore or a reason my Indoril would use it. Or someone that doesn't worship Stendarr.

Yeah. What if I want to make- as the post I quoted highlights- a *Dunmer* priest? Or a *Bosmer* druid/ranger. What if I want to make a classic guild-thief, but I’m not obsessed with blood? A Sorcerer firemage or frostmage? Classic magic-eschewing Nord barbarian, Orc reaver or Redguard warrior?

I don't think it would be controversial to say that ZOS could do a lot better marrying mechanics to lore/power fantasy, and classes are the premier example of this. The lore side often feels like an awkwardly contrived afterthought tacked on to an abstract mechanical package. Meanwhile, classic signature TES archetypes are not achievable within the system.

Sorcerer and Nightblade get the closest to feeling like core archetypes (which I honestly think is an overlooked factor in their greater popularity), but the awkward imposition of "Power Ranger-style" elemental themes was a bewilderingly out-of-touch decision for an Elder Scrolls game because it unnecessarily shackles the core archetype to a contrived "theme/colour" thing that people clearly resent. If ever there is room to rework the classes in the future, the baked-in colour/theme thing is something I'd love to see gone.

Templar and Dragonknight feel like generic fantasy inserted into the game with little feel for TES nuance. Any "lore" feels tacked-on after the fact and therefore unconvincing. Meanwhile, disparate mechanical niches, and even marketing (DON'T FORGET MORROWIND, GUYS) are the drivers behind the Warden's theme. Coherence and archetype feel like another unimportant afterthought, way down the list of design principles, and subject to everything else. People feel like this represents a disrespect for a cohesive power fantasy.

I personally have no doubt that the eclectic and awkward class system remains a barrier for many potential fans from the franchise's mainline games to this day. People wanting to emulate power fantasies from the games they are coming from are instead presented with a garbled series of classes that don't really feel like anything Elder Scrollsey, and when they try to reject those, and instead build something that represents a core archetype, they'll encounter only frustration and the result is likely to leave them vastly underpowered and incapable of anything remotely satisfying. And because character building is the first major interface with the world, this is often as far as many people will ever get. You can't even train them into the MMO play loop- not even because its all that incompatible with what they are used to- but because from the get-go, the system wont allow them to make their avatars the way they feel like an Elder Scrolls character should be.

My observations are coming from a place of passion. I still love ESO and think its a great game. There are strongly competing demands on development direction, and I suspect that the stated aim of "bringing the TES fan and the MMO fan together" remains a very difficult challenge even to this day. For example, the class system we have today is pretty much an answer to meta demand, and that has come at the ongoing cost of thematic coherence and convincing TES power fantasy. I hope that in the future more impactful design thought goes into it.