It's time to change the Vampire spammable

Shagreth · February 2023

...to something that has a decent animation and for the magicka version to perhaps be ranged. I always thought of vampires to be a bit of blood mages, so something akin to Swallow Soul but bloodier would fit, imagine a bloody bolt and bloody fangs closing & biting the target as the animation finishes. I want viable options when deciding to play as a Rank 4 vampire and without getting insta kicked from groups. The mist change surprised me, I had accepted a fate where vampirism will never get a good change, the experience is also lacking in things not related to performance i.e. feeling like a vampire, but that's another story.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

Zastrix · February 2023

I'm okay with this as it is underutilized. Canonically it would make for magblades to be vapmires but with the changes of the NB spammable to give 10% damage output by being slotted in there's barely any reasons of why to use the vampire spammables.

In PvE the magicka morph is not used because melee and the health morph will get you kicked!

ElementalDud · February 2023

I do agree that there should be a ranged morph for Magicka users, but I hope they don't change anything about how Blood for Blood functions - except make it do bleed damage (and every other vampire skill as well)! In terms of animation, I find this skill and morphs to be the least offensive of the Vampire skill line, but I wouldn't say no to a face lift.

Nser · February 2023

No change please other than make BFB or the entire kit do bleed damage. They might not be used in pve, but in pvp i cant picture a *mag* Warden or Necro without either morph.
Since you want to be stage 3 vampire in pvp, Arterial burst burst becomes one of the more cost efficient spammables while other spammables become more expensive.
BFB is niche but does see play. Its unique and thats good but if anything in the kit needs to be bleed damage, its this.

Instead of changing the spammable i think its more important to touch on the other abilities. The new mist form imo does that, for some good some bad but it kinda fits.
In pve the Vampire fear is probly most useful since mobs have nothing to look at but you when they are aggro, but for pvp this "while facing you" mechanic needs to go. Then Mesmerize will see play.
Perfect Scion needs something, perhaps an aoe fear on transforming like the WW has. Maybe even a pulsing fear going off every few seconds.

anyways to me the vampire does feel like a vampire, it just needs minor adjustments to whats already there.

gariondavey · February 2023

Nb gankers would use this more than they already do if it was ranged

Vevvev · February 2023

I'd only like the magic version being changed because it really isn't that good overall. The health cost version is what I use all the time and I prefer it being melee tbh.

Also the magic damage helps with Magicka sustain due to the status effect. I wouldn't like it becoming bleed damage at all.

OBJnoob · February 2023

I basically agree with everything @Nser said. I play a magwarden and definitely use arterial burst as my spammable. I'd still probably use it if it were ranged-- might even be better, but I think it has been the ONLY vampire skill that is good but not broken for a long time. I would much rather see some other skills being changed.

Nser · February 2023

Vevvev wrote: »

I'd only like the magic version being changed because it really isn't that good overall. The health cost version is what I use all the time and I prefer it being melee tbh.

Also the magic damage helps with Magicka sustain due to the status effect. I wouldn't like it becoming bleed damage at all.

I take it your on a dk with charged, and with the recent changes theres no more magic dmg left in the kit to proc overcharged for you. Thats a valid point but i think too niche to keep the magic dmg.
People want lifesteal or anything to do with draining/sucking blood and for that you need Bleed damage that procs Hemorage for a bleed dot and minor mangle, 10% less health. Blood for Blood, blood=bleed its too perfect.
Think about it, youd trade minor magsteal on a class with combustion and battleroar for an xtra dot and mangle, the better deal.

Shagreth · February 2023

I see some objections about changing the skill and/or range. My issue is mostly with the visuals, stuff needs to feel good & satisfying and this spammable has to be one of the silliest & clunkiest looking ones, it even beats the new jabs IMO.

Nser · February 2023

I have to disagree, the animation is part of what makes the skill good. Fast and reliable, changing anything about it will likely result in a clunkier skill.
[snip]
[edited for bashing]

Vevvev · February 2023

Nser wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

I'd only like the magic version being changed because it really isn't that good overall. The health cost version is what I use all the time and I prefer it being melee tbh.

Also the magic damage helps with Magicka sustain due to the status effect. I wouldn't like it becoming bleed damage at all.

I take it your on a dk with charged, and with the recent changes theres no more magic dmg left in the kit to proc overcharged for you. Thats a valid point but i think too niche to keep the magic dmg.
People want lifesteal or anything to do with draining/sucking blood and for that you need Bleed damage that procs Hemorage for a bleed dot and minor mangle, 10% less health. Blood for Blood, blood=bleed its too perfect.
Think about it, youd trade minor magsteal on a class with combustion and battleroar for an xtra dot and mangle, the better deal.

I used to run charged, but yes.... you explained it perfectly!

Yes, with the Pale Order Ring. Blood for Blood, and a charged weapon the spammable was free, Overcharged was always active, and the ability greatly helped with sustain.

My problem with the mangle debuff though is some enemies are resistant to it, especially the ones where you're going to be in a very prolonged fight where the sustain factor is more apparent. Against trash packs and stuff the Mangle Debuff won't be all that great in my opinion, but I know my opinion isn't great.

Tessitura · February 2023

Zastrix wrote: »

I'm okay with this as it is underutilized. Canonically it would make for magblades to be vapmires but with the changes of the NB spammable to give 10% damage output by being slotted in there's barely any reasons of why to use the vampire spammables.

In PvE the magicka morph is not used because melee and the health morph will get you kicked!

I have been away for a minute. Have people started kicking others for using blood for blood? Last I played it was a real solid option on Mag Necro since you could easily out heal the damage to your health bar and with pale order ring even surplus heal. Basically a free spammable that was easy to weave and did a *** tone of damage.

Shagreth · February 2023

Nser wrote: »

I have to disagree, the animation is part of what makes the skill good. Fast and reliable, changing anything about it will likely result in a clunkier skill.
[snip]

It's a bad animation but to each their own. And I can see that the faith people have in ZoS when it comes to changing anything is next to zero. That's sad and I hope it changes, but I can't blame them after the last few updates.

[edited to remove quote]

Zastrix · February 2023

Tessitura wrote: »

Zastrix wrote: »

I'm okay with this as it is underutilized. Canonically it would make for magblades to be vapmires but with the changes of the NB spammable to give 10% damage output by being slotted in there's barely any reasons of why to use the vampire spammables.

In PvE the magicka morph is not used because melee and the health morph will get you kicked!

I have been away for a minute. Have people started kicking others for using blood for blood? Last I played it was a real solid option on Mag Necro since you could easily out heal the damage to your health bar and with pale order ring even surplus heal. Basically a free spammable that was easy to weave and did a *** tone of damage.

If you play the same as me and only interested in vet hardmode trials that skill basically can't be used as you can't get healed after using it and you can't use pale order because 12 person content. In dungeons in CAN work but there can be better options.

Shagreth · February 2023

Zastrix wrote: »

If you play the same as me and only interested in vet hardmode trials that skill basically can't be used as you can't get healed after using it and you can't use pale order because 12 person content. In dungeons in CAN work but there can be better options.

Yeah, trials is a huge no, I'd say the same for dungeons -- but some people can pull it off, thing is.. why bother? It's a handicap.

Tessitura · February 2023

Zastrix wrote: »

Tessitura wrote: »

Zastrix wrote: »

I'm okay with this as it is underutilized. Canonically it would make for magblades to be vapmires but with the changes of the NB spammable to give 10% damage output by being slotted in there's barely any reasons of why to use the vampire spammables.

In PvE the magicka morph is not used because melee and the health morph will get you kicked!

I have been away for a minute. Have people started kicking others for using blood for blood? Last I played it was a real solid option on Mag Necro since you could easily out heal the damage to your health bar and with pale order ring even surplus heal. Basically a free spammable that was easy to weave and did a *** tone of damage.

If you play the same as me and only interested in vet hardmode trials that skill basically can't be used as you can't get healed after using it and you can't use pale order because 12 person content. In dungeons in CAN work but there can be better options.

Oh yeah thats right they killed Pale Order. Man I mean you cant do anything interesting in this game without either making it awful or too good I guess. Already remembering why I took a break. lol

Vevvev · February 2023

Tessitura wrote: »

Zastrix wrote: »

I'm okay with this as it is underutilized. Canonically it would make for magblades to be vapmires but with the changes of the NB spammable to give 10% damage output by being slotted in there's barely any reasons of why to use the vampire spammables.

In PvE the magicka morph is not used because melee and the health morph will get you kicked!

I have been away for a minute. Have people started kicking others for using blood for blood? Last I played it was a real solid option on Mag Necro since you could easily out heal the damage to your health bar and with pale order ring even surplus heal. Basically a free spammable that was easy to weave and did a *** tone of damage.

If you're using Blood for Blood in trials or veteran DLC hard mode dungeons you're doing something wrong.

Recently with some of the changes I've learned how to sustain BfB and Sated Fury on my magDK without the Pale Order Ring, but I gave my healer a heart attack the whole time.

The only time it's really safe to use BfB or Blood Frenzy in serious content is if you're the group healer looking to add on a bit of DPS that doesn't cut into your Magicka/Stamina pool.