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Why are classes so unbalanced?

Grandsheba
Grandsheba
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For as long as I've been in the game it'd been Dks, Temps, sorts then night blades for order of dev favoritism. Ut leaves the game heavily unbalanced when the devs don't compare class skills next to each other to ensure the same about of effects get the same amount of cost.

For example: dragon knights have an aoe stun skill that has a synergy

Burning talons: cost 3780
Call forth talons from the ground, dealing 1799 Flame Damage to enemies near you, an additional 1808 Flame Damage over 4 seconds, and immobilizing them for 4 seconds. An ally near the talons can activate the Ignite synergy, dealing 2812 Flame Damage to all enemies held within them.

Necros have an aoe stun that has a synergy.

Agony totem: cost 4050 mag
Summon an effigy of bone at your feet for 13 seconds that grants Minor Protection to you and your allies, reducing damage taken by 5%. After 2 seconds, the totem begins fearing nearby enemies every 2 seconds, causing them to cower in place for 4 seconds. Allies can activate the Pure Agony synergy, causing enemies to take 2100 Magic Damage over 5 seconds and applying Minor Vulnerability to them, increasing their damage taken by 5%

Then there's the defense skills
Templar
Restoring focus: Create a rune of celestial protection and gain Major Resolve for 20 seconds, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5948. You also recover 242 Stamina every 1 second over the duration. Standing within the rune heals you for 959 Health every 1 second, which scales off your Max Health.

Blazing Shield: Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield that absorbs up to 4800 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off your Max Health. Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength by 4% when the shield is activated. When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 30% of the damage it absorbed to nearby enemies.

Living Dark: Envelop yourself in a lightless sphere for 10 seconds to protect yourself. Anytime you take direct damage, the sphere lashes back at the attacker, reducing their movement speed by 40% for 3 seconds and healing you for 2066 Health. These effects can occur once every half second.

Warden

Crystallized Slab: Spin a shield of ice around you, absorbing up to 24791 damage from 3 projectiles. Each time you absorb a projectile you restore 831 Magicka and launch an icy bolt back at the enemy, dealing 1799 Frost Damage and stunning them for 3 seconds.

Ice Fortress: Wrap a thick cloak of ice around you and your allies. The ice grants Major Resolve, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 25 seconds. You gain Minor Protection, reducing your damage taken by 5% for 25 seconds.

Leeching Vines: Grow vines to embrace you or the lowest health ally in front of you for 10 seconds. The vines heal the target for 718 Health each time they take damage. This effect can occur once every 1 second. The vines apply Minor Lifesteal to enemies that damage the target for 10 seconds, healing you and your allies for 600 Health every 1 second when damaging that enemy.

Nightblade

Shadowy disguise: Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 3 seconds. Your next direct damage attack used within 3 seconds will always be a Critical Strike. (This is the strongest armor in pvp, since you cant be hit. Not much for pve)

Mirage: Surround yourself in a phantasmic aura to gain Major Evasion and Minor Resolve, reducing damage from area attacks by 20% and increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 2974 for 20 seconds. While active, taking direct damage reduces the cost of your next Roll Dodge by 10%, up to a maximum of 100%. This effect can stack up to once every half second.


Sorcerer

Hurricane: Manifest yourself as pure air, buffeting nearby enemies with wind dealing 238 Physical Damage every 1 second for 20 seconds. The winds grow in damage and size, increasing up to 160% more damage and up to 9 meters in size. While in this form you gain Major Resolve and Minor Expedition, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 and your Movement Speed by 15%.

Empowered ward: Conjure globes of Daedric energy for protection, granting a damage shield for you and your pets that absorbs 3718 damage for 10 seconds. Damage shield strength scales off your Max Magicka and is capped at 50% of your Max Health. Also grants Minor Intellect and Minor Endurance to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka and Stamina Recovery by 15% for 10 seconds

Bound aegis: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that increases your block mitigation by 40% for 5 seconds and Minor Protection for 20 seconds, reducing your damage taken by 5%. While slotted, your Max Magicka is increased by 8% and you gain Minor Resolve, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 2974.

Dragonknights

Hardened armor: Release your inner Dragon to gain Major Resolve, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 20 seconds. You gain a damage shield that absorbs up to 5121 damage for 6 seconds, scaling off your Max Health. While active, the armor returns 1 Magic Damage to any enemy that uses a direct damage attack against you in melee range, scaling off your Physical and Spell Resistance.

Protective plate: Flex your scales, reducing damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds. Gain immunity to snares and immobilizations for 4 seconds.

Necromancers

Resistant flesh: Sacrifice your own power to repair damaged flesh, healing you or an ally in front of you for 3600 Health but applying Minor Defile to yourself for 4 seconds, reducing your healing received and Health Recovery by 8%. You grant the target Spell and Physical Resistance equal to half the amount healed for 3 seconds.

summoners armor:
Wrap yourself in hardened bone, granting you Major Resolve, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 20 seconds. While active, reduce the cost of Blastbones, Skeletal Mage, and Spirit Mender by 15%. Creates a corpse when the effect completes

How many armor skills have 3 to 4 effects? Harden armor cost 2700 Magicka and gives 4 bonuses, sheild, Major Resolve and then also deals dmg to all that attack.

This summoners armor is no where near the other defensive skills and only offers a weaker passive the necro already has thats it...why? Every other class has 100% dmg sheilds except for Warden and necros, why?

Who else In the game gets a percentage based heal with several other bonuses ontop of that? Necros strongest heal comes with a debuff, what other class gets a debuff from using their skills? How is this balanced? The morphs, theme of the clases, the amount of bonuses and negative effects per skill as well as the cost are not balanced. No armor buff should give more than another class, they should all have the same number of bonuses and cost, that's balanced because they are equal. They can have different effects but still be balanced. Necros theme goes with dots, yet they hsve very few dots in their kits, necros also need a corpse for the vast majority of their abilities which is a negative aspect as it make them the slowest class with their skills.

Nature's grasp for Warden was an opportunity for Wardens to have a single target burst heal, but it moves the Warden into harms way...why? When is this actually useful? Why couldn't the vines heal the target then morph to allow it to grow to the nearest 2 targets and heal them as well. The other one could heal 1 target while removing the negative effects from the target to the Warden since the Warden has a cleansing skill.

Honestly if the devs just compare all the classes to the Templars and dragon knights and brings them UP to their performance instead of nerfing them we could actually see balance. But again there needs to be a foundation, each skill type should have a certain number of bonuses and negatives. I could understand strong skills getting a negative debuff when spammed but not a flat out nerf. I just don't get why the devs do this at all.
"The Tower touches all the mantles of Heaven and by its apex one can be as he will. Be as he was and yet changed for all else on that path for those that walk after. This is [CHIM] the secret of how mortals become makers, and makers back to mortals."

Best Answer

  • master_vanargand
    master_vanargand
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    Creators are just rolling the dice.
    DK last year, DK again this year, wow! lucky!
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    Answer ✓
  • CGPsaint
    CGPsaint
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    Well, all of the "nerf x" and "buff x" posts definitely haven't helped over the years.
    "Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs—horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."
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  • MurkyWetWolf198
    MurkyWetWolf198
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    An issue with ESO is that the devs attempt to balance things by not homogenizing them. They intentionally try and avoid making repetitive skills or passives or sets that do the same thing, they want everything to be unique. Usually, this is a good thing, as when they last tried to make everything homogenous (putting all DoTs on the same timers, shifting their power, etc.), we got U35... need I say more?
    There is nothing inherently wrong with making things unique, and class identity is already a weak point for many players. I think making that stuff all the same would make the game very boring.
    However, the devs fail in one key aspect; the people who decide the changes are very disconnected from the actual player experience. They don't understand what things feel over-tuned, and what things are laughably weak. They can see the numbers, sure, but it's super hard to understand how all the little things in ESO interact with each other to influence a build's efficiency or lack-thereof.
    I think the only way balance will improve consistently is to stop having the devs in the dark about players, and vice versa. They need to understand what our complaints are, as well as what playing the game itself is like (don't think I've ever met a dev who plays the game in my entire 6 years of playing), and we need to understand their concerns about balance and, for better or worse, profit. They want to make money on this game and that's not bad, it just needs to be addressed.
    More communication is the ONLY way that things will improve consistently
    Options
  • Grandsheba
    Grandsheba
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    An issue with ESO is that the devs attempt to balance things by not homogenizing them. They intentionally try and avoid making repetitive skills or passives or sets that do the same thing, they want everything to be unique. Usually, this is a good thing, as when they last tried to make everything homogenous (putting all DoTs on the same timers, shifting their power, etc.), we got U35... need I say more?
    There is nothing inherently wrong with making things unique, and class identity is already a weak point for many players. I think making that stuff all the same would make the game very boring.
    However, the devs fail in one key aspect; the people who decide the changes are very disconnected from the actual player experience. They don't understand what things feel over-tuned, and what things are laughably weak. They can see the numbers, sure, but it's super hard to understand how all the little things in ESO interact with each other to influence a build's efficiency or lack-thereof.
    I think the only way balance will improve consistently is to stop having the devs in the dark about players, and vice versa. They need to understand what our complaints are, as well as what playing the game itself is like (don't think I've ever met a dev who plays the game in my entire 6 years of playing), and we need to understand their concerns about balance and, for better or worse, profit. They want to make money on this game and that's not bad, it just needs to be addressed.
    More communication is the ONLY way that things will improve consistently

    I'm not suggesting they make everything the same, im saying everything needs a standard otherwise there is no balance. Putting all dots on the same timer is trivial and honestly was done because they didn't want to update the server to fix their leggy dsync. That aside, having a clear foundation for how certain types of abilities function is the only way to make anything balance vs having everything completey random. If anyone could access any skill in game with no classes then yeah sure this would be fine for the most part. But thats not the reality.

    And update 35 wasn't trash because of the dot timers lol far from that. They messed up with all the nerfs and un needed changes. They should have just made counters to what ever is too strong to bring in balance. Let ads use temp debuffs that would be affective and make use of the purge skills and dodge mechanics. The devs are too indecisive and narrow minded on how to utilize their combat system to be more effective.
    "The Tower touches all the mantles of Heaven and by its apex one can be as he will. Be as he was and yet changed for all else on that path for those that walk after. This is [CHIM] the secret of how mortals become makers, and makers back to mortals."
    Options
  • Syiccal
    Syiccal
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    Grandsheba wrote: »
    For as long as I've been in the game it'd been Dks, Temps, sorts then night blades for order of dev favoritism. Ut leaves the game heavily unbalanced when the devs don't compare class skills next to each other to ensure the same about of effects get the same amount of cost.

    For example: dragon knights have an aoe stun skill that has a synergy

    Burning talons: cost 3780
    Call forth talons from the ground, dealing 1799 Flame Damage to enemies near you, an additional 1808 Flame Damage over 4 seconds, and immobilizing them for 4 seconds. An ally near the talons can activate the Ignite synergy, dealing 2812 Flame Damage to all enemies held within them.

    Necros have an aoe stun that has a synergy.

    Agony totem: cost 4050 mag
    Summon an effigy of bone at your feet for 13 seconds that grants Minor Protection to you and your allies, reducing damage taken by 5%. After 2 seconds, the totem begins fearing nearby enemies every 2 seconds, causing them to cower in place for 4 seconds. Allies can activate the Pure Agony synergy, causing enemies to take 2100 Magic Damage over 5 seconds and applying Minor Vulnerability to them, increasing their damage taken by 5%

    Then there's the defense skills
    Templar
    Restoring focus: Create a rune of celestial protection and gain Major Resolve for 20 seconds, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5948. You also recover 242 Stamina every 1 second over the duration. Standing within the rune heals you for 959 Health every 1 second, which scales off your Max Health.

    Blazing Shield: Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield that absorbs up to 4800 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off your Max Health. Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength by 4% when the shield is activated. When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 30% of the damage it absorbed to nearby enemies.

    Living Dark: Envelop yourself in a lightless sphere for 10 seconds to protect yourself. Anytime you take direct damage, the sphere lashes back at the attacker, reducing their movement speed by 40% for 3 seconds and healing you for 2066 Health. These effects can occur once every half second.

    Warden

    Crystallized Slab: Spin a shield of ice around you, absorbing up to 24791 damage from 3 projectiles. Each time you absorb a projectile you restore 831 Magicka and launch an icy bolt back at the enemy, dealing 1799 Frost Damage and stunning them for 3 seconds.

    Ice Fortress: Wrap a thick cloak of ice around you and your allies. The ice grants Major Resolve, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 25 seconds. You gain Minor Protection, reducing your damage taken by 5% for 25 seconds.

    Leeching Vines: Grow vines to embrace you or the lowest health ally in front of you for 10 seconds. The vines heal the target for 718 Health each time they take damage. This effect can occur once every 1 second. The vines apply Minor Lifesteal to enemies that damage the target for 10 seconds, healing you and your allies for 600 Health every 1 second when damaging that enemy.

    Nightblade

    Shadowy disguise: Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 3 seconds. Your next direct damage attack used within 3 seconds will always be a Critical Strike. (This is the strongest armor in pvp, since you cant be hit. Not much for pve)

    Mirage: Surround yourself in a phantasmic aura to gain Major Evasion and Minor Resolve, reducing damage from area attacks by 20% and increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 2974 for 20 seconds. While active, taking direct damage reduces the cost of your next Roll Dodge by 10%, up to a maximum of 100%. This effect can stack up to once every half second.


    Sorcerer

    Hurricane: Manifest yourself as pure air, buffeting nearby enemies with wind dealing 238 Physical Damage every 1 second for 20 seconds. The winds grow in damage and size, increasing up to 160% more damage and up to 9 meters in size. While in this form you gain Major Resolve and Minor Expedition, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 and your Movement Speed by 15%.

    Empowered ward: Conjure globes of Daedric energy for protection, granting a damage shield for you and your pets that absorbs 3718 damage for 10 seconds. Damage shield strength scales off your Max Magicka and is capped at 50% of your Max Health. Also grants Minor Intellect and Minor Endurance to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka and Stamina Recovery by 15% for 10 seconds

    Bound aegis: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that increases your block mitigation by 40% for 5 seconds and Minor Protection for 20 seconds, reducing your damage taken by 5%. While slotted, your Max Magicka is increased by 8% and you gain Minor Resolve, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 2974.

    Dragonknights

    Hardened armor: Release your inner Dragon to gain Major Resolve, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 20 seconds. You gain a damage shield that absorbs up to 5121 damage for 6 seconds, scaling off your Max Health. While active, the armor returns 1 Magic Damage to any enemy that uses a direct damage attack against you in melee range, scaling off your Physical and Spell Resistance.

    Protective plate: Flex your scales, reducing damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds. Gain immunity to snares and immobilizations for 4 seconds.

    Necromancers

    Resistant flesh: Sacrifice your own power to repair damaged flesh, healing you or an ally in front of you for 3600 Health but applying Minor Defile to yourself for 4 seconds, reducing your healing received and Health Recovery by 8%. You grant the target Spell and Physical Resistance equal to half the amount healed for 3 seconds.

    summoners armor:
    Wrap yourself in hardened bone, granting you Major Resolve, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 20 seconds. While active, reduce the cost of Blastbones, Skeletal Mage, and Spirit Mender by 15%. Creates a corpse when the effect completes

    How many armor skills have 3 to 4 effects? Harden armor cost 2700 Magicka and gives 4 bonuses, sheild, Major Resolve and then also deals dmg to all that attack.

    This summoners armor is no where near the other defensive skills and only offers a weaker passive the necro already has thats it...why? Every other class has 100% dmg sheilds except for Warden and necros, why?

    Who else In the game gets a percentage based heal with several other bonuses ontop of that? Necros strongest heal comes with a debuff, what other class gets a debuff from using their skills? How is this balanced? The morphs, theme of the clases, the amount of bonuses and negative effects per skill as well as the cost are not balanced. No armor buff should give more than another class, they should all have the same number of bonuses and cost, that's balanced because they are equal. They can have different effects but still be balanced. Necros theme goes with dots, yet they hsve very few dots in their kits, necros also need a corpse for the vast majority of their abilities which is a negative aspect as it make them the slowest class with their skills.

    Nature's grasp for Warden was an opportunity for Wardens to have a single target burst heal, but it moves the Warden into harms way...why? When is this actually useful? Why couldn't the vines heal the target then morph to allow it to grow to the nearest 2 targets and heal them as well. The other one could heal 1 target while removing the negative effects from the target to the Warden since the Warden has a cleansing skill.

    Honestly if the devs just compare all the classes to the Templars and dragon knights and brings them UP to their performance instead of nerfing them we could actually see balance. But again there needs to be a foundation, each skill type should have a certain number of bonuses and negatives. I could understand strong skills getting a negative debuff when spammed but not a flat out nerf. I just don't get why the devs do this at all.

    Sounds like you just want each class to have the same skills and passivs, to cost the same but look different..that would be properly boring
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  • Stx
    Stx
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    Because the dev team is unfortunately not great (being polite) at making balance changes and they don’t make frequent changes either.
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  • jerj6925
    jerj6925
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    1. The game is very old, [snip]
    [snip]
    3. Focus will always be on new content releases, people pay for that, when is the last time you bought a fix expansion??? there is no money in corrective patches, that is seen as a negative to revenue.
    [snip]
    [edited for bashing]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 22, 2023 6:39PM
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  • propertyOfUndefined
    propertyOfUndefined
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    Just my personal opinion, but I honestly don't think classes are as "unbalanced" as players think. Sure, there's some room for improvement, but it's relatively small tweaks as far as I'm concerned.

    I feel like they're more or less equal in potential at this point, but play differently from each other, which is actually a good thing! The last thing we want is for classes to have the same abilities that differ only in their names and visual effects.

    Edited by propertyOfUndefined on January 24, 2023 5:51AM
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  • Melzo
    Melzo
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    Just my personal opinion, but I honestly don't think classes are as "unbalanced" as players think. Sure, there's some room for improvement, but it's relatively small tweaks as far as I'm concerned.

    I feel like they're more or less equal in potential at this point, but play differently from each other, which is actually a good thing! The last thing we want is for classes to have the same abilities that differ only in their names and visual effects.

    Try to defeat the warden with a mana sorcerer. One skill from the warden is enough to reduce all the attempts of the sorcerer to 0. I was a warden even when the werewolf set was relevant, infuriated the sorcerers. Or try to create a necromancer with a destro staff and fight at a distance. Maybe heavy attack suits you? The whole so-called balance is 1-2 builds for each class. Meta dictates how you play and your imagination breaks on the floor when you want to come up with something of your own. Now this is especially true.
    Edited by Melzo on January 24, 2023 8:40AM
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  • Caribou77
    Caribou77
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    I suspect PvP would be more balanced if *someone* actually played all of the classes frequently.
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  • Quequag11
    Quequag11
    Soul Shriven
    While you make some decent points, as much as everyone will hate this, there is a potion that entirely negates shadowy disguise. Until there is a potion to completely negate shield's and blocking it's not really balanced either.
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  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    Quequag11 wrote: »
    While you make some decent points, as much as everyone will hate this, there is a potion that entirely negates shadowy disguise. Until there is a potion to completely negate shield's and blocking it's not really balanced either.
    It is not just the potion. There are dedicated revealing skills that prevent you from using invisibility. And it is not like players slot those skills just to be able counter invisibility. For the most part those abilities give passive bonuses (like Revealing Flare gives you Major Protection, so many players slot it just for that). On top of that, if you have strong DOT, then it is also going to work as cloak no longer blocks dot dmg. It used to do so in the past (apparently they had troubles coding the cloak as in the past every dot was also interrupting it lol, so for a very long time it was their "fix" so it would suppress DOTs... lol2).

    NBs nowadays don't rely only on invisibility as it is too easy to counter & as a result it is considered unreliable. I would say that currently Invisibility as a mechanic is very over rated by pretty much everyone who did not used it in recent year. Better NBs rely more on mobility & Shadow Image. But um... have you tried it ? It is insanely hard to master. Even nbs mains have trouble with it. Very polarising skill, but in order to take full potential of it you need to learn how to use it... and not everyone can as it has a very high skill cap.
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  • mmtaniac
    mmtaniac
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    Balance changes should be made more frequent not only after 3months ,maybe after 2 weeks or month. but this require extra work, and game need new content. So for Zos it's easier to made new content will less balance changes. Some people can't play at all if they class are bad. Others just adapt and play something different. Im the one that ignore game until my class become usefull.
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  • p00tx
    p00tx
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    I'm not making excuses here, but I do have to admit that there are a LOT of variables and moving parts in this game, which makes it almost impossible to see how any one change, no matter how small, is going to impact a class until it's been played extensively. Everything affects everything, from class skills, racial passives, set bonuses, group buffs, individual buffs and the vulnerabilities of the target(s). Even the tiniest change can tip a class into "OP" territory with all of the variables in play. That being said, things change in this game, A LOT. It's the one truly consistent thing you can count on besides the crown store. So no matter what your favorite class it, it'll eventually rise to the top and become the most powerful class.

    At the end of the day though, unless you're a super sweaty PvPer or a PvE world record pusher, none of that really matters. Each class offers enough to make them more than viable in the vast majority of this game's content. Just play what you want.
    PC/Xbox NA Mindmender|Swashbuckler Supreme|Planes Breaker|Dawnbringer|Godslayer|Immortal Redeemer|Gryphon Heart|Tick-tock Tormentor|Dro-m'Athra Destroyer|Stormproof|Grand Overlord|Grand Mastercrafter|Master Grappler|Tamriel Hero
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  • Grandsheba
    Grandsheba
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    Syiccal wrote: »
    Grandsheba wrote: »
    For as long as I've been in the game it'd been Dks, Temps, sorts then night blades for order of dev favoritism. Ut leaves the game heavily unbalanced when the devs don't compare class skills next to each other to ensure the same about of effects get the same amount of cost.

    For example: dragon knights have an aoe stun skill that has a synergy

    Burning talons: cost 3780
    Call forth talons from the ground, dealing 1799 Flame Damage to enemies near you, an additional 1808 Flame Damage over 4 seconds, and immobilizing them for 4 seconds. An ally near the talons can activate the Ignite synergy, dealing 2812 Flame Damage to all enemies held within them.

    Necros have an aoe stun that has a synergy.

    Agony totem: cost 4050 mag
    Summon an effigy of bone at your feet for 13 seconds that grants Minor Protection to you and your allies, reducing damage taken by 5%. After 2 seconds, the totem begins fearing nearby enemies every 2 seconds, causing them to cower in place for 4 seconds. Allies can activate the Pure Agony synergy, causing enemies to take 2100 Magic Damage over 5 seconds and applying Minor Vulnerability to them, increasing their damage taken by 5%

    Then there's the defense skills
    Templar
    Restoring focus: Create a rune of celestial protection and gain Major Resolve for 20 seconds, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5948. You also recover 242 Stamina every 1 second over the duration. Standing within the rune heals you for 959 Health every 1 second, which scales off your Max Health.

    Blazing Shield: Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield that absorbs up to 4800 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off your Max Health. Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength by 4% when the shield is activated. When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 30% of the damage it absorbed to nearby enemies.

    Living Dark: Envelop yourself in a lightless sphere for 10 seconds to protect yourself. Anytime you take direct damage, the sphere lashes back at the attacker, reducing their movement speed by 40% for 3 seconds and healing you for 2066 Health. These effects can occur once every half second.

    Warden

    Crystallized Slab: Spin a shield of ice around you, absorbing up to 24791 damage from 3 projectiles. Each time you absorb a projectile you restore 831 Magicka and launch an icy bolt back at the enemy, dealing 1799 Frost Damage and stunning them for 3 seconds.

    Ice Fortress: Wrap a thick cloak of ice around you and your allies. The ice grants Major Resolve, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 25 seconds. You gain Minor Protection, reducing your damage taken by 5% for 25 seconds.

    Leeching Vines: Grow vines to embrace you or the lowest health ally in front of you for 10 seconds. The vines heal the target for 718 Health each time they take damage. This effect can occur once every 1 second. The vines apply Minor Lifesteal to enemies that damage the target for 10 seconds, healing you and your allies for 600 Health every 1 second when damaging that enemy.

    Nightblade

    Shadowy disguise: Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 3 seconds. Your next direct damage attack used within 3 seconds will always be a Critical Strike. (This is the strongest armor in pvp, since you cant be hit. Not much for pve)

    Mirage: Surround yourself in a phantasmic aura to gain Major Evasion and Minor Resolve, reducing damage from area attacks by 20% and increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 2974 for 20 seconds. While active, taking direct damage reduces the cost of your next Roll Dodge by 10%, up to a maximum of 100%. This effect can stack up to once every half second.


    Sorcerer

    Hurricane: Manifest yourself as pure air, buffeting nearby enemies with wind dealing 238 Physical Damage every 1 second for 20 seconds. The winds grow in damage and size, increasing up to 160% more damage and up to 9 meters in size. While in this form you gain Major Resolve and Minor Expedition, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 and your Movement Speed by 15%.

    Empowered ward: Conjure globes of Daedric energy for protection, granting a damage shield for you and your pets that absorbs 3718 damage for 10 seconds. Damage shield strength scales off your Max Magicka and is capped at 50% of your Max Health. Also grants Minor Intellect and Minor Endurance to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka and Stamina Recovery by 15% for 10 seconds

    Bound aegis: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that increases your block mitigation by 40% for 5 seconds and Minor Protection for 20 seconds, reducing your damage taken by 5%. While slotted, your Max Magicka is increased by 8% and you gain Minor Resolve, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 2974.

    Dragonknights

    Hardened armor: Release your inner Dragon to gain Major Resolve, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 20 seconds. You gain a damage shield that absorbs up to 5121 damage for 6 seconds, scaling off your Max Health. While active, the armor returns 1 Magic Damage to any enemy that uses a direct damage attack against you in melee range, scaling off your Physical and Spell Resistance.

    Protective plate: Flex your scales, reducing damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds. Gain immunity to snares and immobilizations for 4 seconds.

    Necromancers

    Resistant flesh: Sacrifice your own power to repair damaged flesh, healing you or an ally in front of you for 3600 Health but applying Minor Defile to yourself for 4 seconds, reducing your healing received and Health Recovery by 8%. You grant the target Spell and Physical Resistance equal to half the amount healed for 3 seconds.

    summoners armor:
    Wrap yourself in hardened bone, granting you Major Resolve, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 20 seconds. While active, reduce the cost of Blastbones, Skeletal Mage, and Spirit Mender by 15%. Creates a corpse when the effect completes

    How many armor skills have 3 to 4 effects? Harden armor cost 2700 Magicka and gives 4 bonuses, sheild, Major Resolve and then also deals dmg to all that attack.

    This summoners armor is no where near the other defensive skills and only offers a weaker passive the necro already has thats it...why? Every other class has 100% dmg sheilds except for Warden and necros, why?

    Who else In the game gets a percentage based heal with several other bonuses ontop of that? Necros strongest heal comes with a debuff, what other class gets a debuff from using their skills? How is this balanced? The morphs, theme of the clases, the amount of bonuses and negative effects per skill as well as the cost are not balanced. No armor buff should give more than another class, they should all have the same number of bonuses and cost, that's balanced because they are equal. They can have different effects but still be balanced. Necros theme goes with dots, yet they hsve very few dots in their kits, necros also need a corpse for the vast majority of their abilities which is a negative aspect as it make them the slowest class with their skills.

    Nature's grasp for Warden was an opportunity for Wardens to have a single target burst heal, but it moves the Warden into harms way...why? When is this actually useful? Why couldn't the vines heal the target then morph to allow it to grow to the nearest 2 targets and heal them as well. The other one could heal 1 target while removing the negative effects from the target to the Warden since the Warden has a cleansing skill.

    Honestly if the devs just compare all the classes to the Templars and dragon knights and brings them UP to their performance instead of nerfing them we could actually see balance. But again there needs to be a foundation, each skill type should have a certain number of bonuses and negatives. I could understand strong skills getting a negative debuff when spammed but not a flat out nerf. I just don't get why the devs do this at all.

    Sounds like you just want each class to have the same skills and passivs, to cost the same but look different..that would be properly boring

    I really don't understand how you came to that conclusion when I stated that's not what I want at all. Balance comes with a foundation and a consistency on ability types. For example, all armor buffs have the same duration. If DKs got a armor buff that healed them and deals dmg...oh they do, if they had it last for 1hr while every other class has the standard 30s DKs have an even lower resource cost and higher uptime on defense than any other class.

    Every class should be balanced, same amount of positive effects per skills and same amount of negative effects per skill. Same amount of passive skills, same amount of skills, same amount of ultimates. Balanced, they can make them do whatever but one skill shouldn't do 6 things while a similar spam skill does 1 or 2. I don't believe nerfs are needed o believe in making counter measures to keep things balanced. This is a good way to being in new skill lines instead of constantly creating more complicated armor sets.
    "The Tower touches all the mantles of Heaven and by its apex one can be as he will. Be as he was and yet changed for all else on that path for those that walk after. This is [CHIM] the secret of how mortals become makers, and makers back to mortals."
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  • Foxtrot39
    Foxtrot39
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    If classes were balanced they would basicaly be only differentiated by the animation and the colour of their skills

    There was an essay why a modified steet fighter game made to make everyone OP was so much more enjoyable than one where both player can only acces the same tools and have the same stats
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  • Grandsheba
    Grandsheba
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    Foxtrot39 wrote: »
    If classes were balanced they would basicaly be only differentiated by the animation and the colour of their skills

    There was an essay why a modified steet fighter game made to make everyone OP was so much more enjoyable than one where both player can only acces the same tools and have the same stats

    You're confusing "balanced" with identical. You're statement about the o ly difference being colour and animation is 100% incorrect. Being OP has nothing todo with not being balanced. Balance is allowing for something to be OP yet still have a weakness or counter aswell as allowing multiple ways to achieve being OP instead of 1 or 2 metas per build.
    "The Tower touches all the mantles of Heaven and by its apex one can be as he will. Be as he was and yet changed for all else on that path for those that walk after. This is [CHIM] the secret of how mortals become makers, and makers back to mortals."
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  • Nihilr
    Nihilr
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    Grandsheba wrote: »
    Foxtrot39 wrote: »
    If classes were balanced they would basicaly be only differentiated by the animation and the colour of their skills

    There was an essay why a modified steet fighter game made to make everyone OP was so much more enjoyable than one where both player can only acces the same tools and have the same stats

    You're confusing "balanced" with identical. You're statement about the o ly difference being colour and animation is 100% incorrect. Being OP has nothing todo with not being balanced. Balance is allowing for something to be OP yet still have a weakness or counter aswell as allowing multiple ways to achieve being OP instead of 1 or 2 metas per build.

    This game doesn't have many weaknesses. Vamps to fire, WW's to poison, and PvP players to crit dps/healer hybrids. lol

    The elements in ESO don't have weakness to each other. And jewelry enchants don't do enough elemental resist to make elemental defense feasible.

    I do agree that this game should have more strength v weakness aspects, but they apparently got rid of elemental resistances with One Tamriel if I remember correctly. DK's used to struggle fighting Flame Atronachs because fire wouldn't affect them.

    But if classes weren't a thing, and players could select spells from schools of magic instead of "preselected skilltrees in classes", this wouldn't be an issue. And then weaknesses+strengths could return.
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  • Justosay
    Justosay
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    It's strange that TS compares only class active skills, completely forgetting about passive skills, guild skills, equipment abilities and so on, but stating that there is no "balance".
    Well, I'm explaining to you the balance on the fingers... The letters of the alphabet can be combined as ABC+DEF+... or ABD+EFC+... or ADE+BCF+... and so on. But any combination still gives you the whole alphabet. Can you combine DEF and ADE in this row? Of course. But you will miss some other letters.
    Skills (from any branch or gear or potions) are the same “groups of letters” that you combine. You can collect the same defense + damage + heal + buff + debuff in different ways, or lose part of the "alphabet" to get stronger another part.
    If I need an AOE stun i can use Turn Evil, regardless of class. As DD I don't need strong armor at all, but if i want it, i can wear any set with Major or Minor Resolve and get it "for free", regardless of class. Still think there is no balance?
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  • ADarklore
    ADarklore
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    The problem is, I think every class has a 'nemesis'... a class that does well against another class but not so well against another; in ESO, most of the time several that they're good against, but also several they're vulnerable to. I'd call that balanced. How do you make all classes excellent against all other classes and vulnerable to none?!? Because you'd think in a completely 'balanced' system, nobody would ever be able to defeat another.
    CP: 1965 ** ESO+ Gold Road ** ~~ Stamina Arcanist ~~ Magicka Warden ~~ Magicka Templar ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
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  • nb_rich
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    CGPsaint wrote: »
    Well, all of the "nerf x" and "buff x" posts definitely haven't helped over the years.

    I agree and also the community especially on this forum is so selfish and only think about themselves for the most part. If you read through posts on here majority of people only reply with how a certain change will impact themselves only and if they like it or not, but no one really actually thinks about the player base as a whole and how changes can be positive/negative to others.

    It probably makes balancing hard since there is not to much consistency when it comes to us as a community providing feedback.
    nb_rich
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  • flguy147ub17_ESO
    flguy147ub17_ESO
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    nb_rich wrote: »
    CGPsaint wrote: »
    Well, all of the "nerf x" and "buff x" posts definitely haven't helped over the years.

    I agree and also the community especially on this forum is so selfish and only think about themselves for the most part. If you read through posts on here majority of people only reply with how a certain change will impact themselves only and if they like it or not, but no one really actually thinks about the player base as a whole and how changes can be positive/negative to others.

    It probably makes balancing hard since there is not to much consistency when it comes to us as a community providing feedback.

    Agree with this, people need to add feedback for the overall health of the game. People sometimes get upset if they have the OP class and it gets nerfed a little The healthier the combat balance is whether your class is number 1 or 5, the better the population and the health of the game. I miss just roaming around Cyrodill away from big keep fights and finding these small scale, 3 vs 3 pvp fights and stuff.
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  • Zama666
    Zama666
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    Every class gets its chance.
    The nerfing and buffing of classes keeps the game interesting!
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  • Caribou77
    Caribou77
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    I’ve seen constructive, insightful, and unselfish feedback on class balance as well. Agree that much is selfish and myopic, but not all.
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  • Captain_Devildog
    Captain_Devildog
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    Templar is not nerfed, its wiped from his lore..
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  • Akasha_Mei
    Akasha_Mei
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    Fact is that, there is thought competition in the game, then obviously people start to be selfish.
    It's hard game for not-gamers; and too easy for real gamers.
    All classes, indeed should be more bound to the lore.
    For real competitive gamers, the should make a special version of ESO-RawCombat, where doesn't matter lore, like MMA/UFC, and gang fights for groups (like it's already settled in Cyrodill).
    Kind Regards,Akasha Mei
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  • MEBengalsFan2001
    MEBengalsFan2001
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    Justosay wrote: »
    It's strange that TS compares only class active skills, completely forgetting about passive skills, guild skills, equipment abilities and so on, but stating that there is no "balance".
    Well, I'm explaining to you the balance on the fingers... The letters of the alphabet can be combined as ABC+DEF+... or ABD+EFC+... or ADE+BCF+... and so on. But any combination still gives you the whole alphabet. Can you combine DEF and ADE in this row? Of course. But you will miss some other letters.
    Skills (from any branch or gear or potions) are the same “groups of letters” that you combine. You can collect the same defense + damage + heal + buff + debuff in different ways, or lose part of the "alphabet" to get stronger another part.
    If I need an AOE stun i can use Turn Evil, regardless of class. As DD I don't need strong armor at all, but if i want it, i can wear any set with Major or Minor Resolve and get it "for free", regardless of class. Still think there is no balance?

    Game balance has gone out the window. Go look at DK vs Templar and you can see how badly Templars are design vs. DK. Who even needs a Templar now in ESO when DK can do everything a Templar can and do more.

    The one area even prior to all of these updates that provided templar some utility was their minor sorcery buff and the damage they could do in PVP. Since August 2022 Templars have gone from being good to being JUNK.

    Devs need to go through and ensure that the basic major buffs that all classes should have access to are brutality/sorcery, resolve and prophecy/savagery. Outside of those three buff each class should have group buff for a major and minor buffs, one major debuff, and one minor debuff. This way each class would be able to bring something to trails, PVP and Dungeons.

    Game isn't balanced, some classes have many debuff without any type of buff. Others get all sorts of buffs without any major debuff and some classes have buff/debuff that overlap with other classes that offer more so those classes become useless in any type of content.

    Also, classes are far from balance when timers of buffs and debuff differ to the point that the classes with lower time are spending more time bar swapping than dealing damage further hindering them as a decent damage dealer.

    Any good trial group would take a support Warden and DK along for their major resolve group buff and major sorcery/brutality buff that allows damage dealers to free up two slots to produce even more damage. Templar can't provide those buffs. The warden can even do AoE major and minor breach debuff something a DK or Templar can't do.

    I mean the game is far from balance and the more the devs try to balance each class it seems like some classes get more and more buff/debuffs added to their tool belt and other simply get gutted without any regards to how that will impact that class in the game.
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