Nope.. If you don't like a class, or want to try something different, make a new character.

(*"you" used generally not as you personally)

Red_Feather wrote: »

If final fantasy was not a mandatory subscription, I'd be playing that instead. It's job system is better than whatever eso is trying to do. https://www.dexerto.com/final-fantasy/how-to-change-jobs-in-ffxiv-switching-class-guide-1811303/

Insert free trial for FF14 ad here.

Well, that's why I'm currently playing FF14 and will continue to play until I can change my main ESO character to one that I actually enjoy playing. Plus the job storylines are pretty good.

Sealish wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

In my opinion there should NEVER be a class change. Especially not for a newly released class, as it would be unfair to players having bought the chapter to see others being far ahead in what the new class can do. So there should be atleast a two year wait after a new class release, before a class change token should even be an option, to prevent players having a head start.

Changing class has many downsides:
1: Flavour of the month class changing to overpowered class.
2: Would allow players to skip playing the game itself.
3: Would be unfair to players having actually leveled that class.
4: Would reduce crownstore sales for many items, skyshards, mount training, outfit slots, armory slots, etc.
5: Boredom, there would be nothing to play for/towards when everything is already completed instantly. This is an MMO, instant gratification does not work in games like these.

Some people do not realize the impact a class change would have on other players, and the game itself.

So to address those things:

1) People who care about doing that already do it. Getting a fresh character to lvl 50 for competitive mechanical reasons is super easy. Once you have one of each class you can change to the FOTM on the fly. Adding a class change token doesn't impact this since for that specific reason having an alt of each class is already a better option.

2) How? You will have still played the game on the character you are changing the class of. It will allow players to skip repeating hundreds of boring grindy hours (not saying that it was boring the first time, but that doing it for the second, third, etc. is more of a chore than fun) of already completed content they have already played.

3) Again, how? I fully expect a class change to reset the class skill lines to lvl 1 and need to level them all up to 50 like if I was using a weapon line I have never used before. This would also help prevent the FOTM swapping you are worried about, given that if you have to lvl the skill lines from 1 every time you swap it is a less attractive option for that use.

4) Maybe, maybe not. Those sales are still useful for people who like alts. People like myself (people who have no desire to make an alt) who would easily buy a class change token would also never buy any of those listed things. A class change token might even increase overall revenue. This point is pure speculation on both sides.

5) This one confuses me. A class change token eliminates the boredom of having to re-do already completed content. If you don't care about the world-state or RP implications of creating a new character, then making an alt that is as mechanically capable as your main in combat is very fast and easy. The only things that get completed instantly through a class change token are the things that you have already completed (so... nothing?), and the things still left to complete on that new alt are the same ones on your main.

So no, I do not see the negative impacts that a class change token would have on other people or the game its self since there don't seem to really be any. I see a very big positive though. A class change token would allow lots of people who have gotten bored with the game because their chosen class hasn't had any real combat expansion in YEARS to start enjoying it again by trying something new without having to start over, something that a lot of us aren't willing to do.

1: Yes they do. But in order to do so, they had to level up the new character and unlock everything they wanted to unlock. Meaning they were out in the world playing for it, instead of getting it instantly. Which a class change token would do.

2: Skipping "boring" content as you call it, means skipping playing parts of the game. In an MMO players need to be in the world doing something, while having something to do. When everything is instantly already done, there is no need to be in the world, or to play in the world. Which means players would either log off, or stand in town with nothing to do. A class change would mean skipping basically the entire foundation of the MMO game itself. All the timers, restrictions, and other limits are put in place so players play the game more and longer. Skipping all those processes wouldn't be good for the game.
Another one of the major pillars about an MMO, is to work towards a more fleshed out account. Something a class change token would let players bypass.

3: This wasn't just about leveling, but this is about everything a character can unlock. When like now, a new class is released, it is cool to see how far along you are with building the character versus other players(not only PvP is competitive). As everyone started at the same point in time. Taking that away is demotivating. Seeing other players skipping everything and getting ahead of you, with a class change token, is unfair and not fun to watch for other players. Especially as a class change token would cost crowns, making it feel like pay-to-win. So if a class change token is ever implemented it should, for a new class, only be available atleast 2 years after that class is released. So that everyone can be at the same stage of the new class.

4: Agree, only ZOS can know. But seeing as they haven't implemented a class change token yet, and as so many things they are selling is to flesh out a new character, I suspect ZOS figured this would harm crown sales big time. But this is what I am thinking, only ZOS knows. We are just speculating.

5: A class change token would take players out of the gameworld, as they have already instantly completed everything they could be aiming towards. Even if that leaves the player with a few things on their to-do list, this is bad for the entire game, as an MMO needs players to be out and about. A class change token would mean fewer players queueing for dungeons, fewer players PvPing, and fewer players in other parts of the game. As they have already done all those things. Meaning a class change token would be bad for the game itself.
Also, completing things on an old character does not mean they should instantly be completed on a newly released class. A new class is a new experience, so doing everything again is part of the entire reason for ZOS to even release a new class. Getting/wanting everything right away, with a class change token, is a bad thing. Especially with a new class.
And if making an alt which is as mechanically capable as your main in combat is very fast and easy, as you say, that eliminates the entire need for a class change token.

Not related to the above:
A class change token would also mean there would be less of the other classes being played in-game. And it would mean the instant a new class is released, this new class is already running around at maximum level. Both of those are/look bad.

In my opinion a class change token is bad for the entire game, in multiple ways. MMO's are meant to be played for a long time, so always having something left to do is a good thing. If a class change token is ever released, it should be severely limited: Only allowed to change class once per year, only allowed to change class to a class of which you already have a maximum level, and in the case of a newly released class a class change should only be available two years after it's release.

Idea: Personally I'd rather ZOS were to make a rebirth system for level 50's. Where we could rebirth to level 1 and choose a second class, so we'd all become dual class characters. Which seems fun, and would open up the game in very unexpected ways. Examples: A necromancer nightblade, a warden sorcerer, a dragonknight templar, etc. To keep the game fresh, we could be allowed to rebirth as many times as we wanted(level 50 requirement), changing our second class again and again. "Play the way you want!"

PS: Tried FF14, and without voice acting, it is nowhere near as fun or good as ESO.
PPS: Making threats to quit or leave the game if ZOS does not make a class change token... thats actually terrible! Atleast use arguments to show why you want something, instead of trying to force something into the game.

Red_Feather wrote: »

That sounds like a dream. I wish a game did that.

DDO allows you to reincarnate from endgame to level 1, you keep your name, inventory, permanent stat-increases and crafting training, otherwise it's an all new char, with a little stat boost to remind you of your former life. No dual classing, though, that's already a base feature.

The drawback is that those little stat boosts really add up, so players with a lot of reincarnations have quite an advantage. (Not that much of an issue in a game where the only PVP is duels in designated public arenas)

DreamyLu wrote: »

There are several aspects to such a change. I tell the 2 main ones coming to my mind:
- For me, a char is a unique personality. Her/his class is part of it, so new class means new ton.

Given that when Arcanist drops we'll have 3 classes that are basically linked in the sense it's a mage who went down a specific line of knowledge. Sorcerers are focused on lightning magic and daedric summoning. Necros focus obviously on necromancy. Arcanists are basically just warlocks. So why can't a sorcerer who focused on daedric summoning be interested in making a pact with Mora and become an Arcanist. Why can't an Arcanist who wanted power not found in the black books turn to necromancy? I'd argue not allowing a character to change class is more limiting to their personality.

I would love to change.

I am one of those people who usually play only one character/Spends all the time on one Character and never restarts.


I love the new class but I do not want to hunt down Skyshards, Books, Level Alliance/Guild, or Replay long and tedious quests just to play a new character with different Visuals.

I would happily pay crowns worth a DLC just to switch classes even if its a one time deal.

colossalvoids wrote: »

This far in game's life span many players grew attached to their characters already existing and integrated into the world. Some of us even having 18\18 slots (leveling a lot more characters overall, some are getting deleted for the sake of trying new concepts) and grew tired of leveling new ones (to be shelved or deleted yet again). Not even talking about traits and mount training taking huge amount of time even playing daily, piling up on leveling guilds and other potential grinds.

While new class addition if highly appreciated as a new way of experiencing the game and changing group dynamics in both PvE and PvP, a lot of players are puzzled or frustrated to how they're going to interact with the feature themselves having no motivation to level another one of characters that has no contribution for existing "mains", like a simpler skill line(s) would do instead. Would highly prefer it being a new skill line for existing characters myself. We've seen implementation of AWA recently that potentially would ease some pain points of changing characters but clearly the mark was missed in both directions leaving most of the "pro" and "against" crowds dissatisfied leaving problem unsolved to this day. Some grew even more attached to playing single character than before.

I firmly believe that we need to have a way to change the player class, be it multi-class system akin to armory or simple change token, even if that would imply a "one way" transfer, more of a reset for the character if ability experience can't be transferred correctly as we were told years ago. There should be found a way to solve the issue many are having, preferably more player friendly and less restraining one of course. This obviously cutting into skyshards, guild lines, outfit and character slot (etc.) selling profits but still should at the very least be considered.

The sooner, the better as this year seems to be the deciding point for a huge amount of players feeling that game is stagnating for at least last three years and waiting for more than bare minimum effort.

I personally rather it just be a set of 3 skill lines and no more new classes to allow for game progress and role play with current made characters. The idea of beung firced to start over is loathing.

If this was a ser of skill line it would allow for thr option to start over or just continue with your current class and change into a new class or merge with the power of Herma Mora. No need for class tokens as we have an armory, can just swap out build with out having to log out hope on another tool move allllllllll your gear from one spot to another. Log out again, check another toon, was it the 5th toon or the 17th toon dang hard to remember.... but again for some thats appealing and I respect that, but for others like my self we rather not and would like that inclusive option just like everyone else.

A little bothered the only thinking behind a "no" option is "wasting dev time" but it is what it is.
ESO has already done many things to make individual characters less unique in my opinion. The meta is usually global skills, using the same weapons, etc. A class that excels at certain things gets those skills given to other classes, leaving them lacking(example: Necromancer).
-I left New World for ESO in part because there is no reason to have multiple characters there(NW), you can constantly change your character to do anything else. I really miss races and classes being truly unique in MMOs and having their own strengths not shared with other classes & races.
-The desire to change classes, especially because someone can't be bothered to level a new character up and explore them from level 1 all the way up, is just horrific to me. I also don't want to constantly see half of Nirn becoming one class overnight every time the meta changes.
-I get that a lot of people don't want to do many of the grinds all over again: sky shards, guild lines, etc etc but it's an MMO. It's going to have grinds. I just don't think that attitude sufficiently warrants the devs implementing class changes. There is always the option to you know, just not play a new class if you can't be bothered to do the work again.

Kisakee wrote: »

The thing most people seem to forget about is actually a very simple one. Yes, you may have thousands and thousands of hours in ESO. Yes, you may have spent lots of money on it. Yes, you may have a need for a Class Change Token.

But you're not the audience they're aiming for. They aim for new players who don't have Skyshards, Mount Training or Inventory Space upgrades. And there's one thing new players absolutely don't need - a Class Change Token.

It makes sense obviously (especially with their formulation) but in my exact case it's either they're getting my money and I'm switching for a year or two, or I'm still playing my NB main and new class isn't used, might be taken for a 9$ on sale, but not guaranteed as it would be shelved like necro or warden were. They're still making content exactly for me and not new players - vet HM dlc dungeons, so seems reasonable to voice anything worth voicing. Cass wasn't planned pretty recently and we have one now despite old consoles, so makes sense to request.

Amottica wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It will not be happening. New characters drive revenue to a much higher degree than what enough people would pay for a class change token. It would not make sense for Zenimax to reduce their revenue for such an offering.

Think mount training, sky shards, skill lines, etc, that are all offered in the crown store. It all adds up to a significant summ and means that a class change token will not be happening.

Along this reasoning people also argued that race change and faction change would never ever happen.

@Supreme_Atromancer

Interesting but Impossible that someone suggested race change would not happen based on the reasoning I provided. It would have been funny as most of that reasoning could not have existed back then as most of that stuff was not available in the cash shop yet.

Correct.

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It will not be happening. New characters drive revenue to a much higher degree than what enough people would pay for a class change token. It would not make sense for Zenimax to reduce their revenue for such an offering.

Think mount training, sky shards, skill lines, etc, that are all offered in the crown store. It all adds up to a significant summ and means that a class change token will not be happening.

Along this reasoning people also argued that race change and faction change would never ever happen.

@Supreme_Atromancer

Interesting but Impossible that someone suggested race change would not happen based on the reasoning I provided. It would have been funny as most of that reasoning could not have existed back then as most of that stuff was not available in the cash shop yet.

I wrote "along the same lines". Extra character slots, experience scrolls, mount training and more long predate race and faction change tokens.

And of that only mount training was in my list. As such my comment is accurate that it would be impossible for anyone to have made the same argument I did towards race change.

I wasn't saying people were making the exact same argument.

Good because they could not and what I stated is solid compared to what you said some people used to say. The business side of Zenimax will force the group to reckon with the points I made just as any well-run business would have to consider the full impact of changes under consideration. It is not a possibility if they know how to run a business, which they clearly do.

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It will not be happening. New characters drive revenue to a much higher degree than what enough people would pay for a class change token. It would not make sense for Zenimax to reduce their revenue for such an offering.

Think mount training, sky shards, skill lines, etc, that are all offered in the crown store. It all adds up to a significant summ and means that a class change token will not be happening.

Along this reasoning people also argued that race change and faction change would never ever happen.

@Supreme_Atromancer

Interesting but Impossible that someone suggested race change would not happen based on the reasoning I provided. It would have been funny as most of that reasoning could not have existed back then as most of that stuff was not available in the cash shop yet.

I wrote "along the same lines". Extra character slots, experience scrolls, mount training and more long predate race and faction change tokens.

And of that only mount training was in my list. As such my comment is accurate that it would be impossible for anyone to have made the same argument I did towards race change.

I wasn't saying people were making the exact same argument.

Good because they could not and what I stated is solid compared to what you said some people used to say.

Comparatively, yes. But if the underlying logic is flawed because other factors you haven't properly reckoned can influence that decision , it would be faulty.

The business side of Zenimax will force the group to reckon with the points I made just as any well-run business would have to consider the full impact of changes under consideration.

.

I've never disagreed with this. In fact, I already pointed out that it seems sound, to me.

It is not a possibility if they know how to run a business

I'm as suspicious of absolute statements as I am of passionate forum statements. Perhaps you're right, and you know everything there is to possibly know, every possible factor and are never ever wrong. But perhaps not.

The only flaw in what I said is that it will not be happening as an absolute. There is always a chance. However, I would suggest that anyone in this thread wanting to play the new class once it hits the live server will be rolling a new toon just as they did for the Warden and Necromancer.

With that, the points I made in my first post in this thread are facts that any Zenimax team considering such a token will be forced to consider by the business side of the company. That is a business reality since no successful business has people making such decisions in a vacuum. After all, it is the same reason why anyone who wants the crafting has to subscribe to gain access.

Edit. And I never said other factors would not be considered which is why my comments are not flawed.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just wanted to let you all know that we do not have any plans on implementing class changes tokens at this time. There are a number of technical challenges with implementing them, and it would take a significant amount of time to solve these challenges efficiently and safely.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I vote no, but not for the reason you have given. I think class change is a dangerous precedent. It will encourage players to shift to the meta by changing class, reducing diversity of playstyles, and it will encourage ZOS to make even more aggressive balance changes every quarter in order to sell more class change tokens.

Class change is a bad idea, and no amount of forum threads will convince me otherwise.

LMAO...have you not been in PVE or PVP content. Most players have built enough alts up to simply swap to one of the meta builds.

I'm all for class change tokens. The players missing out on the meta are the ones that only play one character or maybe play two characters.

FlipFlopFrog wrote: »

For the people commenting who voted for the 'No' option.

Have you actually made a new character recently? Because I tried to roll a necromancer and let me tell you it is not fun at all having to redo all alliance zone areas, the main quest, five expansion zones all with hours of quests, 136 dungeons many with their own quests. Having to upgrade your mount, research all traits on every bit of gear, upgrade your bag/bank space again. To say it's daunting would be an understatement, like someone else said on the forums "I can change my race, name and alliance. Why can't I change my job?"

C'mon ZoS!

Why would you need to do all those things? You don't need to replace your "main" in every detail, all you need to do is get your new character to a playable (in endgame terms, and only then if that's your thing) level. Why would you need to complete all base zone and dungeon quests? Why, if you already have a maxed out crafter do you need another? And so on...