I highly doubt you will ever see a class change token.

NeoXanthus · January 2023

Creating a new character class fills two positive needs of ZoS. First and most important, it is a highly positive cash flow event. Second and almost as necessary, the usage numbers of the platform in all zones will be artificially inflated.

For those mentioned above, positive cashflow comes from people with means and limited time via Crown store purchases for all riding upgrades, skill lines (that can be purchased), and sky shards the number of crowns required is 84,250 minus Armory Slots and Outfit Slots. When we do the math on crowns, if we get the most significant discount by volume and buy 21,000 crowns for 149.99US, that means each crown to dolor is roughly 0.007142:1, meaning 84,250 crowns will cost 601.71US dollars (if you buy during a crown sale you could drop that number by 40% bringing the total cost down to 361.03US) to unlock your charter about 87%+- of the way you still will need to character level to 50 and level weapons, armor, and other class skills not purchasable.

Also, as mentioned in the second point of the opening statement, people with time and not much means will be going over old content again and again, this will cause skewed analytics of the ZoS platform, and when management or decision-makers see it, who may not have a full lay of the land, it makes it seem that the product utilization is up manyfold if they are looking at the top-level analytics and not getting a complete understanding from their data scientists.

Now, why would anybody at all put themselves through this? Well, people who know from the past two newly released classes follow a very predictable path. For the first 90 days, the new class is massively overpowered and entirely the best in-game period; ZoS will claim ignorance and nerf the class a little; however, it will remain the best class for another 90 days, and then it will get the full nerf hammer. But for the first 180 days, if you play this game in any end-game capacity, it is worth the trouble of leveling the character. Is leveling fun? I don’t think it is for me, but I know others enjoy it.

OBJnoob · January 2023

Not that you're wrong about anything, but I promise you I'll find the time to do whatever it is I feel the character needs before I spend 600 dollars.

There's already enough things you can change about your character. If they do this then that's everything-- and we'd all be better off with only one character, since you can just up and make it something else. It'd be the same slap in the face to character creation that Account Wide Achievements was to achievements.

I have about 8 characters. 4 of which are complete-- 4 of which are in varying states of "need work." I like it this way because I earned it. I earned it, exactly it, and nothing but it.

In the end, if they did this, I'd probably just go about business as usual. But still-- I'm strongly against it and finding it hard to explain why. Weird moral reasons. Stop making it so work isn't required.

The_Titan_Tim · January 2023

New classes are much less monetizable than new skill lines.

If 3,000 is the base cost of one Skill Line, and you level both your Psijic and Mage’s Guild, I’ll even be generous, your Undaunted too… that’s 9,000 crowns, your average player will buy an Armory Slot and an Outfit Slot, so that’s another 3,000, now you have 12,000 crowns spent on one character.

If the class was broken up into 3 Skill Lines that could have been unlocked on each of your characters and you have one of each class, that would be 5 classes

(have to finish the lines on your first character)

x 9,000… that’s 45,000 potential crowns. Even if you broke it down to just one skill line, that would be 15,000 crowns, still 3,000 higher than a new Class.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · January 2023

You don't think selling class change tokens for 5k crowns each would not profitable?

I want you to think about that for a moment, also consider that not everyone buys these "Skyshard Upgrades" but I would however buy Class change tokens.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · January 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

New classes are much less monetizable than new skill lines.

If 3,000 is the base cost of one Skill Line, and you level both your Psijic and Mage’s Guild, I’ll even be generous, your Undaunted too… that’s 9,000 crowns, your average player will buy an Armory Slot and an Outfit Slot, so that’s another 3,000, now you have 12,000 crowns spent on one character.

If the class was broken up into 3 Skill Lines that could have been unlocked on each of your characters and you have one of each class, that would be 5 classes
(have to finish the lines on your first character)
x 9,000… that’s 45,000 potential crowns. Even if you broke it down to just one skill line, that would be 15,000 crowns, still 3,000 higher than a new Class.

You forget potential skyshard sale acompaning a new character

the1andonlyskwex · January 2023

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

You don't think selling class change tokens for 5k crowns each would not profitable?

I want you to think about that for a moment, also consider that not everyone buys these "Skyshard Upgrades" but I would however buy Class change tokens.

Did you not read the OP? A class change token for 5k crowns would save you almost 80k compared to the alternative. A class change token might be profitable in isolation, but it isn't once you factor in all of the other sales that it would block/prevent. Sure, a few people might buy class changes who wouldn't spend crowns otherwise, but the number almost certainly isn't enough to make up for lost sales of upgrades.

For example:
1) It would take over 16 class changes to make up for one person fully upgrading a new character with crowns.
2) It would take about 3.5 class changes to make up for one person fully upgrading their mount with crowns.
3) Even just buying a couple skill lines is more than your proposed class change cost.

the1andonlyskwex · January 2023

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

You don't think selling class change tokens for 5k crowns each would not profitable?

I want you to think about that for a moment, also consider that not everyone buys these "Skyshard Upgrades" but I would however buy Class change tokens.

Did you not read the OP? A class change token for 5k crowns would save you almost 80k compared to the alternative. A class change token might be profitable in isolation, but it isn't once you factor in all of the other sales that it would block/prevent. Sure, a few people might buy class changes who wouldn't spend crowns otherwise, but the number almost certainly isn't enough to make up for lost sales of upgrades.

For example:
1) It would take over 16 class changes to make up for one person fully upgrading a new character with crowns.
2) It would take about 3.5 class changes to make up for one person fully upgrading their mount with crowns.
3) Even just buying a couple skill lines is more than your proposed class change cost.

And that's not even mentioning the ways in which class change tokens would be bad for the game/community. I seriously doubt ZOS wants to deal with accusations that they're just trying to sell more class changes every time they rebalance a class, and most players probably won't react very well when their guild/group starts telling them they need to buy a class change to continue playing their preferred content.

shadyjane62 · January 2023

The only way to win is not to play the crown store game.

How about a nice game of chess?

TX12001rwb17_ESO · January 2023

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

You don't think selling class change tokens for 5k crowns each would not profitable?

I want you to think about that for a moment, also consider that not everyone buys these "Skyshard Upgrades" but I would however buy Class change tokens.

Did you not read the OP? A class change token for 5k crowns would save you almost 80k compared to the alternative. A class change token might be profitable in isolation, but it isn't once you factor in all of the other sales that it would block/prevent. Sure, a few people might buy class changes who wouldn't spend crowns otherwise, but the number almost certainly isn't enough to make up for lost sales of upgrades.

For example:
1) It would take over 16 class changes to make up for one person fully upgrading a new character with crowns.
2) It would take about 3.5 class changes to make up for one person fully upgrading their mount with crowns.
3) Even just buying a couple skill lines is more than your proposed class change cost.

Your assuming people actually buy them upgrades...do you not realize the number of people who would buy class change tokens would be magnitudes beyond the amount who actually buy upgradesm ask yourself what would those people be buying when they have a max number of maxed out characters? many people would buy class change tokens as the meta constantly shifts.

Kisakee · January 2023

shadyjane62 wrote: »

The only way to win is not to play the crown store game.

How about a nice game of chess?

So seeing ESO die because people stop spending which makes the game unprofitable is a win? Great logic, 11/10.

Ajaxandriel · January 2023

NeoXanthus wrote: »

Creating a new character class fills two positive needs of ZoS. First and most important, it is a highly positive cash flow event. Second and almost as necessary, the usage numbers of the platform in all zones will be artificially inflated

I'll disagree with a simple argument: I will buy Necrom anyway, and make an Arcanist new character with their own identity anyway.

But

Without a ReClass Token, I won't be able to spend a part of my Crowns in the store for the sake of such Tokens.
Should I precise I'm not going to buy any mounting/shards/consumables in Crowns anyway, simply cosmetics.

According to my calculations :nerd: this makes less money for ZoS in the end.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

And that's not even mentioning the ways in which class change tokens would be bad for the game/community. I seriously doubt ZOS wants to deal with accusations that they're just trying to sell more class changes every time they rebalance a class, and most players probably won't react very well when their guild/group starts telling them they need to buy a class change to continue playing their preferred content.

This is a matter of business design. Either you go on the dark path of cheap f2p dying games or you stick to the healthy path of sound b2p game like ESO tried to be these years.

To avoid what you fear, first don't make silly imbalances to the classes (ok that's a bit too high an expectation!) first put limitations like only one re-class per xxxx (time) on account.

notyuu · January 2023

NGL, I'd pay 15,000 crowns for a class change token if that would at least get it blood made

Dr_Con · January 2023

you are ignoring the amount of player activity and crown store purchases that would happen as a result of leveling the character to max.

you are also ignoring that some people don't touch the crown store at all.

Stx · January 2023

Kisakee wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

The only way to win is not to play the crown store game.

How about a nice game of chess?

So seeing ESO die because people stop spending which makes the game unprofitable is a win? Great logic, 11/10.

Or they could stop treating the game like a cash cow and put some effort into their product. If the game dies because people aren’t spending tons of crowns then that’s on them. They get a box cost every year when most games release a new box every two to three years… and they also charge a sub fee which I’m not sure how many players pay it but I’m guessing a decent amount.

Tandor · January 2023

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

You don't think selling class change tokens for 5k crowns each would not profitable?

I want you to think about that for a moment, also consider that not everyone buys these "Skyshard Upgrades" but I would however buy Class change tokens.

Did you not read the OP? A class change token for 5k crowns would save you almost 80k compared to the alternative. A class change token might be profitable in isolation, but it isn't once you factor in all of the other sales that it would block/prevent. Sure, a few people might buy class changes who wouldn't spend crowns otherwise, but the number almost certainly isn't enough to make up for lost sales of upgrades.

For example:
1) It would take over 16 class changes to make up for one person fully upgrading a new character with crowns.
2) It would take about 3.5 class changes to make up for one person fully upgrading their mount with crowns.
3) Even just buying a couple skill lines is more than your proposed class change cost.

Your assuming people actually buy them upgrades...do you not realize the number of people who would buy class change tokens would be magnitudes beyond the amount who actually buy upgradesm ask yourself what would those people be buying when they have a max number of maxed out characters? many people would buy class change tokens as the meta constantly shifts.

As it would undoubtedly would as revenue generation would be dependent on it.

Given that in a current poll 55% say they will play the new class, with another 11% saying they may do, while only 7% say they will only do so if they can get a class change token, I think you greatly over-estimate the effective demand for such tokens. I seriously doubt that the effective demand is sufficient to warrant the substantial cost of rewriting, implementing, and testing, a significant part of the game engine, not least after allowing for the lost revenue from other upgrading options.

AlterBlika · January 2023

Like so many people tend to purchase these skill lines, skyshards, mount lessons, etc... I, personally, would never purchase them but would be more than happy to pay for a class change token just to try something new on a ready-to-go character.

Artanisul · January 2023

I have all my slots filled and have never bought any of those things in the crown store. I didnt even know there were armory slots and have never considered buying outfir slots. Costume changes are not that frequent to need many slots....

Characters just represent PART of the player....not all aspects of a player....Class change tokens are a sign of the times we are in for sure....

Kisakee · January 2023

AlterBlika wrote: »

Like so many people tend to purchase these skill lines, skyshards, mount lessons, etc... I, personally, would never purchase them but would be more than happy to pay for a class change token just to try something new on a ready-to-go character.

Just because you wouldn't do it doesn't mean nobody would. I've never done it myself, all i bought was character slots. But that's just two people in literally millions.

shadyjane62 · January 2023

Kisakee wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

The only way to win is not to play the crown store game.

How about a nice game of chess?

So seeing ESO die because people stop spending which makes the game unprofitable is a win? Great logic, 11/10.

Then give us something worth paying for. Haven't seen that since Elsweyr.

ADarklore · January 2023

Well, let me say this... I have max character slots, on each one I've paid the full upgrades for, including Legerdemain, Fighters Guild and Mages guild. All Skyshards, all mount upgrades, all inventory upgrades and equipped each with five outfit (1 free) and five armory slots (2 free). So that means I've spent roughly $300+ PER CHARACTER over the many years I've played... and I continue to delete and create new characters... and will do this for the new class as well. My time is worth more to me than the money spent upgrading. I also typically spend 10-12 hours (on my days off) playing... so the entertainment value I receive is worth it IMO.

So yes, ZOS makes much more money from players upgrading alt characters than they would ever get with class change tokens. The only reason I wrote this is not to brag about what I've spent, but to show those who simply keep believing that nobody pays this amount of money, when in reality, many of us actually do. ZOS has the numbers, they KNOW what people are spending.

Dragonlord573 · January 2023

AlterBlika wrote: »

Like so many people tend to purchase these skill lines, skyshards, mount lessons, etc... I, personally, would never purchase them but would be more than happy to pay for a class change token just to try something new on a ready-to-go character.

I did the math and I heavily doubt people actually do buy them all. It costs $150 alone just for mount upgrades, and $600 to get mount upgrades, skill lines, and all the skyshards.

Elsonso · January 2023

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

AlterBlika wrote: »

Like so many people tend to purchase these skill lines, skyshards, mount lessons, etc... I, personally, would never purchase them but would be more than happy to pay for a class change token just to try something new on a ready-to-go character.

I did the math and I heavily doubt people actually do buy them all. It costs $150 alone just for mount upgrades, and $600 to get mount upgrades, skill lines, and all the skyshards.

It is almost guaranteed that there are people that do buy them all. In a population the size of ESO, likely quite a few people.

Finedaible · January 2023

The way I see it, this whole dilemma of creating alts could be mostly resolved by removing the cooldown on mount training. The mount training scrolls would still have a use for anyone who doesn't have or doesn't want to spend the gold to max it out, and then everyone is happier including the whales.

SeaGtGruff · January 2023

I imagine that if changing a character's class were as trivial for ZOS as people think it would be, a class change token would have been a thing years ago. And now that we have the Armory Station, there are probably even more potential complications to consider.

Amottica · January 2023

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

You don't think selling class change tokens for 5k crowns each would not profitable?

I want you to think about that for a moment, also consider that not everyone buys these "Skyshard Upgrades" but I would however buy Class change tokens.

Likely less profitable than what they make selling convenience items for new characters. It does not take much in sky shards and mount training to make 5k crowns look like pocket change.

So if we are seriously considering what the price of a class change token will be then 5k is not even close to the starting point. That is if this is a serious conversation.

Amottica · January 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

New classes are much less monetizable than new skill lines.

If 3,000 is the base cost of one Skill Line, and you level both your Psijic and Mage’s Guild, I’ll even be generous, your Undaunted too… that’s 9,000 crowns, your average player will buy an Armory Slot and an Outfit Slot, so that’s another 3,000, now you have 12,000 crowns spent on one character.

If the class was broken up into 3 Skill Lines that could have been unlocked on each of your characters and you have one of each class, that would be 5 classes
(have to finish the lines on your first character)
x 9,000… that’s 45,000 potential crowns. Even if you broke it down to just one skill line, that would be 15,000 crowns, still 3,000 higher than a new Class.

This ignores the extra items many players would purchase to help get a new character up to speed. Business analysis 101 would have us look at the full picture of mount training, sky shared, etc. That can easily go well beyond the assumed crowns spent.

tohopka_eso · January 2023

ADarklore wrote: »

Well, let me say this... I have max character slots, on each one I've paid the full upgrades for, including Legerdemain, Fighters Guild and Mages guild. All Skyshards, all mount upgrades, all inventory upgrades and equipped each with five outfit (1 free) and five armory slots (2 free). So that means I've spent roughly $300+ PER CHARACTER over the many years I've played... and I continue to delete and create new characters... and will do this for the new class as well. My time is worth more to me than the money spent upgrading. I also typically spend 10-12 hours (on my days off) playing... so the entertainment value I receive is worth it IMO.

So yes, ZOS makes much more money from players upgrading alt characters than they would ever get with class change tokens. The only reason I wrote this is not to brag about what I've spent, but to show those who simply keep believing that nobody pays this amount of money, when in reality, many of us actually do. ZOS has the numbers, they KNOW what people are spending.

I'm the same, depending how i feel and if its an alt (of course I use alt loosely, many of my characters have there own personality)I am going to keep I'll buy the upgrades I want/will use.

Shagreth · January 2023

What exactly are you trying to say, that i.e. a class change token that costs around 5k isn't going to make them money? Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense.

It's beyond my comprehension why there is no class change token, it just boggles my mind. It HAS to become a thing. I have a character that has done pretty much everything and I can never bond with any alt no matter how much (of my limited) time I invest, and I would give ANYTHING for a chance to change to the arcanist (big herma fan). I am tired of my NB, and I'm sure many OG's are also tired of their ancient main. When was the last time they added anything new to old classes? Almost everyone I know be it from guilds, discord, reddit etc. would kill for one.

NeoXanthus · January 2023

Shagreth wrote: »

What exactly are you trying to say, that i.e. a class change token that costs around 5k isn't going to make them money? Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense.

It's beyond my comprehension why there is no class change token, it just boggles my mind. It HAS to become a thing. I have a character that has done pretty much everything and I can never bond with any alt no matter how much (of my limited) time I invest, and I would give ANYTHING for a chance to change to the arcanist (big herma fan). I am tired of my NB, and I'm sure many OG's are also tired of their ancient main. When was the last time they added anything new to old classes? Almost everyone I know be it from guilds, discord, reddit etc. would kill for one.

Think about this. ZoS is running a business. One of the pillars of any successful business is positive cash flow. However, it can bring in money if successful; research and development cost money to achieve whatever goal. So, ZoS could do nothing at all and make via the crown store make 0 to 600 dollars on a potential new character per account. (Also, another positive side effect is lots of activity on their platform, which upper management will love to see.) Or they could spend tens of thousands in labor to develop a class change token and make, as you say, 5000 crowns, which equate to about 35.71 US per user if they so choose to buy said token. Which plan makes the most sense to you?

RedBranch · January 2023

If you give me account-wide Alliance Ranks I may forget about class changes

jaws343 · January 2023

RedBranch wrote: »

If you give me account-wide Alliance Ranks I may forget about class changes

^^

I've got 18/18 characters levelled with just enough skill points to make them viable for their builds. 2 of them are a tank and healer for PVE. 15 are PVP builds on different classes. And 1 is my main who does everything. I've bought zero skyshard upgrades, and only ever get the various upgrade stuff as a result of crown crates extras and the occasional left over gems. Only 3 of my character have full mount speed and only 1, my main, has full mount training. All of them are master crafters for writs.

Point is, with 2 more slots, I will have 20/20 characters at some point and spend nothing more to level them. And that will happen regardless of class change.

Literally the only thing I want class change for is to change my main, the character that does every single piece of content in the game. All collections, including lore library and motifs and plans. All character locked achievements. All quest. Etc. The other 17 and soon to be 19 characters will never do this because I am not going to spend another 7 years doing all of that again just to play the new class going forward as a main character, even if I like it.

That's what people want class change for. To account to the time sunk into main characters. My alts have, combined, 1/10th of the time spent on them than my main. Even less so over the last year as I've been grinding Grand Overlord on my main.

And I said it in another thread, the people who are jumping classes for meta already have fully leveled alts. And they will still have them and the two additional slots leveled if class change existed. Because they would still be in positions of needing to swap in/out different characters and classes on a dime for group comp issues or role swaps.