I highly doubt you will ever see a class change token.

Red_Feather

I made it to level 18 of a necromancer before I realized I was being forced to do it all over again. And though to myself, if I am starting from scratch I can do it from another game. So I tried other games. So the necromancer got me to log in the first month of its release... and then I really needed a long break away from ESO after.

RedBranch

@jaws343 im definitely an advocate for class change tokens. They ability to change classes is an MMO staple. I’ve leveled every class but once fully leveled I always go back to my main where I’ve completed all quests, crafting goals, etc. I spent so much time playing PvP with different characters. Combined I would surpass the Grand Overlord rank but the lack of account-wide ranks holds me back… it’s been an annoyance of mine for a while because I want to unlock that achievement which keeps me tied to one class.

I always say that if you don’t like something in a game then don’t do it… those opposing class change tokens should definitely not buy one.

Elsonso

RedBranch wrote: »

I always say that if you don’t like something in a game then don’t do it… those opposing class change tokens should definitely not buy one.

Optional. That worked so well with AwA, right?

There is a bit of a dichotomy across the forum on a number of topics, especially where it comes to the concept of MMO. On the one hand, people applaud the multi-player aspect of the game, but then they turn around and ask for things for themselves like they are by themselves and no one else would be impacted. Here, the term "optional" comes up like it is the magic bullet. It isn't. Sure, players can opt to not use it, but whether they use it or not, it impacts the game.

This is a multiplayer game, and what players do will impact others, even those who choose not to partake in something they don't like. This runs the entire gamut from cosmetics to game play. If this were a single player game, sure, just don't use the class change feature. This is not a single player game. We are not alone, and class choice is a limiter in this game. Different players with different classes mix together to perform whatever task awaits them. Each class brings something, and perhaps the group is not optimal, but that is part of the overall experience. Remove that limiter, and it can be removed, and that dynamic changes for everyone.

This isn't just about class tokens, either. There are no optional cosmetics in this game because they are in the game whether the player buys them or not. Buying houses is optional, but not buying them can limit how the game is played. Even an optional overland difficulty isn't really optional, as everyone is impacted by this sort of feature, even if they don't want to use it.

Class change was described as an "MMO staple", but is it really a multiplayer staple? I think it is just something that studios have done to satisfy individuals.

The_Titan_Tim

Amottica wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

New classes are much less monetizable than new skill lines.

If 3,000 is the base cost of one Skill Line, and you level both your Psijic and Mage’s Guild, I’ll even be generous, your Undaunted too… that’s 9,000 crowns, your average player will buy an Armory Slot and an Outfit Slot, so that’s another 3,000, now you have 12,000 crowns spent on one character.

If the class was broken up into 3 Skill Lines that could have been unlocked on each of your characters and you have one of each class, that would be 5 classes

(have to finish the lines on your first character)

x 9,000… that’s 45,000 potential crowns. Even if you broke it down to just one skill line, that would be 15,000 crowns, still 3,000 higher than a new Class.

This ignores the extra items many players would purchase to help get a new character up to speed. Business analysis 101 would have us look at the full picture of mount training, sky shared, etc. That can easily go well beyond the assumed crowns spent.

Those numbers I used were an average I collected from players that have been playing a year or more, as most people will not buy mount training, or skyshards as the costs of those are extremely excessive once they realize how easy it is to finish those out.

There will always be outliers to every average, some people spend an atrocious amount of money on convenience while others spend nothing.

I haven’t purchased a convenience crown store item in years, not to say I haven’t bought anything… it’s just hard to justify spending money on things obtainable in-game when we’re spending 40 a year on a chapter and 15 a month.

Fennorian

Yeah, I doubt they will ever bring class change tokens because they make enough money off the skill line upgrades (new character = more skill lines/ potentially buying them)

MEBengalsFan2001

NeoXanthus wrote: »

Creating a new character class fills two positive needs of ZoS. First and most important, it is a highly positive cash flow event. Second and almost as necessary, the usage numbers of the platform in all zones will be artificially inflated.

For those mentioned above, positive cashflow comes from people with means and limited time via Crown store purchases for all riding upgrades, skill lines (that can be purchased), and sky shards the number of crowns required is 84,250 minus Armory Slots and Outfit Slots. When we do the math on crowns, if we get the most significant discount by volume and buy 21,000 crowns for 149.99US, that means each crown to dolor is roughly 0.007142:1, meaning 84,250 crowns will cost 601.71US dollars (if you buy during a crown sale you could drop that number by 40% bringing the total cost down to 361.03US) to unlock your charter about 87%+- of the way you still will need to character level to 50 and level weapons, armor, and other class skills not purchasable.

Also, as mentioned in the second point of the opening statement, people with time and not much means will be going over old content again and again, this will cause skewed analytics of the ZoS platform, and when management or decision-makers see it, who may not have a full lay of the land, it makes it seem that the product utilization is up manyfold if they are looking at the top-level analytics and not getting a complete understanding from their data scientists.

Now, why would anybody at all put themselves through this? Well, people who know from the past two newly released classes follow a very predictable path. For the first 90 days, the new class is massively overpowered and entirely the best in-game period; ZoS will claim ignorance and nerf the class a little; however, it will remain the best class for another 90 days, and then it will get the full nerf hammer. But for the first 180 days, if you play this game in any end-game capacity, it is worth the trouble of leveling the character. Is leveling fun? I don’t think it is for me, but I know others enjoy it.

Most of the players I talked to said they don't buy the stuff you listed with a new alt. Instead they simply grind enough on an alt to open up the required skill lines, mount speed/inventory/stamina, and level. Most don't even buy skyshard zone because you should have enough skill points from completing the main story and running daily dungeons.

Many of those same players have alts they don't use and would swap them over to an arcanist because it would shave time off so they could enjoy the new class sooner in end game content.

Basically, crown sales lost from Zenimax not offering a class change token.

MEBengalsFan2001

NeoXanthus wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

What exactly are you trying to say, that i.e. a class change token that costs around 5k isn't going to make them money? Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense.

It's beyond my comprehension why there is no class change token, it just boggles my mind. It HAS to become a thing. I have a character that has done pretty much everything and I can never bond with any alt no matter how much (of my limited) time I invest, and I would give ANYTHING for a chance to change to the arcanist (big herma fan). I am tired of my NB, and I'm sure many OG's are also tired of their ancient main. When was the last time they added anything new to old classes? Almost everyone I know be it from guilds, discord, reddit etc. would kill for one.

Think about this. ZoS is running a business. One of the pillars of any successful business is positive cash flow. However, it can bring in money if successful; research and development cost money to achieve whatever goal. So, ZoS could do nothing at all and make via the crown store make 0 to 600 dollars on a potential new character per account. (Also, another positive side effect is lots of activity on their platform, which upper management will love to see.) Or they could spend tens of thousands in labor to develop a class change token and make, as you say, 5000 crowns, which equate to about 35.71 US per user if they so choose to buy said token. Which plan makes the most sense to you?

I don't know a single player that would drop $600 for a new class. Most of the players complained when I was talking about buying the PS5 Edge controller because it cost $200. Most players don't have that type of money to waste.

But at $30-50 for a class change token, Zenimax would see a better cash flow from more players willing to swap a character over. It isn't about the few that would spend $600. It is more about the many would spend $35-50. For every 1 person who would spend the $600 there are probably 20 that would spend $35 for a class change token.

So $700-1,000 vs. $600. If I was Zenimax my bet would be on a class change token. And in reality that $600 is probably closer to $200.

Amottica

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

New classes are much less monetizable than new skill lines.

If 3,000 is the base cost of one Skill Line, and you level both your Psijic and Mage’s Guild, I’ll even be generous, your Undaunted too… that’s 9,000 crowns, your average player will buy an Armory Slot and an Outfit Slot, so that’s another 3,000, now you have 12,000 crowns spent on one character.

If the class was broken up into 3 Skill Lines that could have been unlocked on each of your characters and you have one of each class, that would be 5 classes

(have to finish the lines on your first character)

x 9,000… that’s 45,000 potential crowns. Even if you broke it down to just one skill line, that would be 15,000 crowns, still 3,000 higher than a new Class.

This ignores the extra items many players would purchase to help get a new character up to speed. Business analysis 101 would have us look at the full picture of mount training, sky shared, etc. That can easily go well beyond the assumed crowns spent.

Those numbers I used were an average I collected from players that have been playing a year or more, as most people will not buy mount training, or skyshards as the costs of those are extremely excessive once they realize how easy it is to finish those out.

There will always be outliers to every average, some people spend an atrocious amount of money on convenience while others spend nothing.

I haven’t purchased a convenience crown store item in years, not to say I haven’t bought anything… it’s just hard to justify spending money on things obtainable in-game when we’re spending 40 a year on a chapter and 15 a month.

Thing is, we do not know what most people will buy and the extremely small and far from a random sample of your friends cannot be expected to be representative of the player base. As such that data is suspect.

Most players I know do not buy or have not purchased many crown crates but it is clear Zenimax sells enough to make it worthwhile for them to keep crates around.

Someone buys this stuff.

As such my comment was appropriate.

Number_51

shadyjane62 wrote: »

The only way to win is not to play the crown store game.

How about a nice game of chess?

I'm in... but only if you let me class change one of my pawns to queen right from the start. After all, I already moved a pawn all the way across the board (more than once) a long time ago.

Castagere

Wow, I only have 4 max characters and that was enough for me. I can understand people want this token if you did it 18 times though. I can't imagine having that many characters in one game.

NeoXanthus

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

NeoXanthus wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

What exactly are you trying to say, that i.e. a class change token that costs around 5k isn't going to make them money? Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense.

It's beyond my comprehension why there is no class change token, it just boggles my mind. It HAS to become a thing. I have a character that has done pretty much everything and I can never bond with any alt no matter how much (of my limited) time I invest, and I would give ANYTHING for a chance to change to the arcanist (big herma fan). I am tired of my NB, and I'm sure many OG's are also tired of their ancient main. When was the last time they added anything new to old classes? Almost everyone I know be it from guilds, discord, reddit etc. would kill for one.

Think about this. ZoS is running a business. One of the pillars of any successful business is positive cash flow. However, it can bring in money if successful; research and development cost money to achieve whatever goal. So, ZoS could do nothing at all and make via the crown store make 0 to 600 dollars on a potential new character per account. (Also, another positive side effect is lots of activity on their platform, which upper management will love to see.) Or they could spend tens of thousands in labor to develop a class change token and make, as you say, 5000 crowns, which equate to about 35.71 US per user if they so choose to buy said token. Which plan makes the most sense to you?

I don't know a single player that would drop $600 for a new class. Most of the players complained when I was talking about buying the PS5 Edge controller because it cost $200. Most players don't have that type of money to waste.

But at $30-50 for a class change token, Zenimax would see a better cash flow from more players willing to swap a character over. It isn't about the few that would spend $600. It is more about the many would spend $35-50. For every 1 person who would spend the $600 there are probably 20 that would spend $35 for a class change token.

So $700-1,000 vs. $600. If I was Zenimax my bet would be on a class change token. And in reality that $600 is probably closer to $200.

Even if you are correct, ZoS could sell more than $35 class change tokens vs. doing nothing and collecting any amount to 600 per new character. We still need to address the other issues.

Making a class change token is not free for ZoS. It will cost time to research and develop it. It goes without saying that in business, time equals money.

Second, if you have never worked in an IT environment with analytics on usage of a service, this might be a little hard to understand. Environments such as ESO that track analytics will show significant portions of Tamriel's increased activity due to people leveling characters. For us, we see grinding and leveling our new characters, going over old content, but ZoS management sees increased usage numbers of the platform as a whole. Although the information could be more balanced and more accurate to management, they will most likely not get the complete picture and understand what is going on. And they will get the impression that the platform is more alive than ever.