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Summoners armor update
Grandsheba
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The current summoners armor doesn't help necromancers keep up with other classes. Necromancers have no damage shields and are the only class to have a negative effect when healing or require a condition to utilize their skills.
Comparing all other armor type skills here we can see how the number of benefits are not balanced:
Templar
Restoring focus: Create a rune of celestial protection and gain Major Resolve for 20 seconds, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5948. You also recover 242 Stamina every 1 second over the duration. Standing within the rune heals you for 959 Health every 1 second, which scales off your Max Health.
Blazing Shield: Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield that absorbs up to 4800 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off your Max Health. Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength by 4% when the shield is activated. When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 30% of the damage it absorbed to nearby enemies.
Living Dark: Envelop yourself in a lightless sphere for 10 seconds to protect yourself. Anytime you take direct damage, the sphere lashes back at the attacker, reducing their movement speed by 40% for 3 seconds and healing you for 2066 Health. These effects can occur once every half second.
Warden
Crystallized Slab: Spin a shield of ice around you, absorbing up to 24791 damage from 3 projectiles. Each time you absorb a projectile you restore 831 Magicka and launch an icy bolt back at the enemy, dealing 1799 Frost Damage and stunning them for 3 seconds.
Ice Fortress: Wrap a thick cloak of ice around you and your allies. The ice grants Major Resolve, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 25 seconds. You gain Minor Protection, reducing your damage taken by 5% for 25 seconds.
Leeching Vines: Grow vines to embrace you or the lowest health ally in front of you for 10 seconds. The vines heal the target for 718 Health each time they take damage. This effect can occur once every 1 second. The vines apply Minor Lifesteal to enemies that damage the target for 10 seconds, healing you and your allies for 600 Health every 1 second when damaging that enemy.
Nightblade
Shadowy disguise: Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 3 seconds. Your next direct damage attack used within 3 seconds will always be a Critical Strike. (This is the strongest armor in pvp, since you cant be hit. Not much for pve)
Mirage: Surround yourself in a phantasmic aura to gain Major Evasion and Minor Resolve, reducing damage from area attacks by 20% and increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 2974 for 20 seconds. While active, taking direct damage reduces the cost of your next Roll Dodge by 10%, up to a maximum of 100%. This effect can stack up to once every half second.
Sorcerer
Hurricane: Manifest yourself as pure air, buffeting nearby enemies with wind dealing 238 Physical Damage every 1 second for 20 seconds. The winds grow in damage and size, increasing up to 160% more damage and up to 9 meters in size. While in this form you gain Major Resolve and Minor Expedition, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 and your Movement Speed by 15%.
Empowered ward: Conjure globes of Daedric energy for protection, granting a damage shield for you and your pets that absorbs 3718 damage for 10 seconds. Damage shield strength scales off your Max Magicka and is capped at 50% of your Max Health. Also grants Minor Intellect and Minor Endurance to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka and Stamina Recovery by 15% for 10 seconds
Bound aegis: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that increases your block mitigation by 40% for 5 seconds and Minor Protection for 20 seconds, reducing your damage taken by 5%. While slotted, your Max Magicka is increased by 8% and you gain Minor Resolve, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 2974.
Dragonknights
Hardened armor: Release your inner Dragon to gain Major Resolve, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 20 seconds. You gain a damage shield that absorbs up to 5121 damage for 6 seconds, scaling off your Max Health. While active, the armor returns 1 Magic Damage to any enemy that uses a direct damage attack against you in melee range, scaling off your Physical and Spell Resistance.
Protective plate: Flex your scales, reducing damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds. Gain immunity to snares and immobilizations for 4 seconds.
Necromancers
Resistant flesh: Sacrifice your own power to repair damaged flesh, healing you or an ally in front of you for 3600 Health but applying Minor Defile to yourself for 4 seconds, reducing your healing received and Health Recovery by 8%. You grant the target Spell and Physical Resistance equal to half the amount healed for 3 seconds.
summoners armor:
Wrap yourself in hardened bone, granting you Major Resolve, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 20 seconds. While active, reduce the cost of Blastbones, Skeletal Mage, and Spirit Mender by 15%. Creates a corpse when the effect completes.
Purposed change to necromancers summoners armor: Accept Namira's blessing, wrapping yourself in blue embered Ebony bone, granting you Major Resolve, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 20 seconds.
When you take damage, a cursed-teather is created between you and the target for 20 seconds. While within 15m, 50% of the damage you take is instead transferred to the target.
While active, reduce the cost of necromancer skills15% and creates a corpse when the effect completes.
Comparing all other armor type skills here we can see how the number of benefits are not balanced:
Templar
Restoring focus: Create a rune of celestial protection and gain Major Resolve for 20 seconds, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5948. You also recover 242 Stamina every 1 second over the duration. Standing within the rune heals you for 959 Health every 1 second, which scales off your Max Health.
Blazing Shield: Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield that absorbs up to 4800 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off your Max Health. Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength by 4% when the shield is activated. When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 30% of the damage it absorbed to nearby enemies.
Living Dark: Envelop yourself in a lightless sphere for 10 seconds to protect yourself. Anytime you take direct damage, the sphere lashes back at the attacker, reducing their movement speed by 40% for 3 seconds and healing you for 2066 Health. These effects can occur once every half second.
Warden
Crystallized Slab: Spin a shield of ice around you, absorbing up to 24791 damage from 3 projectiles. Each time you absorb a projectile you restore 831 Magicka and launch an icy bolt back at the enemy, dealing 1799 Frost Damage and stunning them for 3 seconds.
Ice Fortress: Wrap a thick cloak of ice around you and your allies. The ice grants Major Resolve, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 25 seconds. You gain Minor Protection, reducing your damage taken by 5% for 25 seconds.
Leeching Vines: Grow vines to embrace you or the lowest health ally in front of you for 10 seconds. The vines heal the target for 718 Health each time they take damage. This effect can occur once every 1 second. The vines apply Minor Lifesteal to enemies that damage the target for 10 seconds, healing you and your allies for 600 Health every 1 second when damaging that enemy.
Nightblade
Shadowy disguise: Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 3 seconds. Your next direct damage attack used within 3 seconds will always be a Critical Strike. (This is the strongest armor in pvp, since you cant be hit. Not much for pve)
Mirage: Surround yourself in a phantasmic aura to gain Major Evasion and Minor Resolve, reducing damage from area attacks by 20% and increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 2974 for 20 seconds. While active, taking direct damage reduces the cost of your next Roll Dodge by 10%, up to a maximum of 100%. This effect can stack up to once every half second.
Sorcerer
Hurricane: Manifest yourself as pure air, buffeting nearby enemies with wind dealing 238 Physical Damage every 1 second for 20 seconds. The winds grow in damage and size, increasing up to 160% more damage and up to 9 meters in size. While in this form you gain Major Resolve and Minor Expedition, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 and your Movement Speed by 15%.
Empowered ward: Conjure globes of Daedric energy for protection, granting a damage shield for you and your pets that absorbs 3718 damage for 10 seconds. Damage shield strength scales off your Max Magicka and is capped at 50% of your Max Health. Also grants Minor Intellect and Minor Endurance to you and nearby allies, increasing your Magicka and Stamina Recovery by 15% for 10 seconds
Bound aegis: Protect yourself with the power of Oblivion, creating a suit of Daedric mail that increases your block mitigation by 40% for 5 seconds and Minor Protection for 20 seconds, reducing your damage taken by 5%. While slotted, your Max Magicka is increased by 8% and you gain Minor Resolve, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 2974.
Dragonknights
Hardened armor: Release your inner Dragon to gain Major Resolve, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 20 seconds. You gain a damage shield that absorbs up to 5121 damage for 6 seconds, scaling off your Max Health. While active, the armor returns 1 Magic Damage to any enemy that uses a direct damage attack against you in melee range, scaling off your Physical and Spell Resistance.
Protective plate: Flex your scales, reducing damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds. Gain immunity to snares and immobilizations for 4 seconds.
Necromancers
Resistant flesh: Sacrifice your own power to repair damaged flesh, healing you or an ally in front of you for 3600 Health but applying Minor Defile to yourself for 4 seconds, reducing your healing received and Health Recovery by 8%. You grant the target Spell and Physical Resistance equal to half the amount healed for 3 seconds.
summoners armor:
Wrap yourself in hardened bone, granting you Major Resolve, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 20 seconds. While active, reduce the cost of Blastbones, Skeletal Mage, and Spirit Mender by 15%. Creates a corpse when the effect completes.
Purposed change to necromancers summoners armor: Accept Namira's blessing, wrapping yourself in blue embered Ebony bone, granting you Major Resolve, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 20 seconds.
When you take damage, a cursed-teather is created between you and the target for 20 seconds. While within 15m, 50% of the damage you take is instead transferred to the target.
While active, reduce the cost of necromancer skills15% and creates a corpse when the effect completes.
"The Tower touches all the mantles of Heaven and by its apex one can be as he will. Be as he was and yet changed for all else on that path for those that walk after. This is [CHIM] the secret of how mortals become makers, and makers back to mortals."
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CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Transferring 50% of damage taken to the target would be laughably overpowered. It would be as strong as ironblood's defensive buff while simultaneously being stronger than the old DK wings. Even transferring 10% of the damage to the opponent would be strong.3 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't like the free gap-closer morph and the reduction in cost morph isn't the best but serves me better than yoink armor. Yes, 50% is way too much. Guard needs a double bar/recast and its distributing the damage to an ally with conditions. Think about Harbinger and what that does with the current proc values.Fear is the Mindkiller0 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No point in comparing class abilities to each other. Find me a defensive ability like Spirit Guardian on other classes…
Yes summoners armor should be better (a lot of skills should).
Me being a fan of summoner type necro classes, I think it would be cool if it summoned a skeleton minion for 15 seconds when you take damage, with a 5 second cooldown so you could have three up at max.0 -
Grandsheba✭✭✭No point in comparing class abilities to each other. Find me a defensive ability like Spirit Guardian on other classes…
Yes summoners armor should be better (a lot of skills should).
Me being a fan of summoner type necro classes, I think it would be cool if it summoned a skeleton minion for 15 seconds when you take damage, with a 5 second cooldown so you could have three up at max.
No point in comparing yet you tried ti compare right after, an ability like spirit Guardian is a damage sheild. In fact most of Templar and dk skills I listed above are like spirit Guardian just with out the floating npc. There you go. The summoners armor is in the tanking tree so it's for tanks skills. You're idea would crash the game more than it already is, it's not feasible."The Tower touches all the mantles of Heaven and by its apex one can be as he will. Be as he was and yet changed for all else on that path for those that walk after. This is [CHIM] the secret of how mortals become makers, and makers back to mortals."0 -
Grandsheba✭✭✭NordSwordnBoard wrote: »I don't like the free gap-closer morph and the reduction in cost morph isn't the best but serves me better than yoink armor. Yes, 50% is way too much. Guard needs a double bar/recast and its distributing the damage to an ally with conditions. Think about Harbinger and what that does with the current proc values.
Kinda like templars backlash with its 200% dmg boost of all the accumulated dmg done to a target? That's super OP compared to 50% on 1 tethered target. Or like protective scales that reduces the dmg by 50% as well and returns dmg. Or maybe an ability thst ignores a targets dmg Resistance is really OP like corrosive armor:Oxidize the green Dragon blood in your veins, limiting incoming damage to 3% of your Max Health and dealing 347 Poison Damage to nearby enemies each second for 10 seconds. While active, this ability and your direct damage dealt ignores enemy Physical and Spell Resistance.
I would want this ability to be limited to once per cast but looking at all other classes and their broken mech I couldn't event suggest it."The Tower touches all the mantles of Heaven and by its apex one can be as he will. Be as he was and yet changed for all else on that path for those that walk after. This is [CHIM] the secret of how mortals become makers, and makers back to mortals."0 -
Grandsheba✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Transferring 50% of damage taken to the target would be laughably overpowered. It would be as strong as ironblood's defensive buff while simultaneously being stronger than the old DK wings. Even transferring 10% of the damage to the opponent would be strong.
For pvp or pve?
For pvp dks are fine, they can heal for 33% of their MAX HP! 33% !!! That's just one skill and one part of that skill, Draw on your draconic blood to heal for 33% of your missing Health. You also gain Major Fortitude, Major Endurance, and Minor Vitality, increasing your Health Recovery and Stamina Recovery by 30% and healing received by 8% for 23 seconds..
Then they have their dragons scales to reduce the dmg they take by 50% as well.
Flex your scales, reducing damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds. When you are hit with a projectile, you retaliate by launching a fiery orb at the attacker that deals 1799 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every half second.
The support line guard already has this ability at 30% and last indefinitely. This one only last until the tether is broken or the ability times out. The 10 wouldn't be OP if the 30% isn't an issue either. So this would work just fine in game with out being OP as it has many counters to reduce that 50% transfer dmg. All the ability listed above show that."The Tower touches all the mantles of Heaven and by its apex one can be as he will. Be as he was and yet changed for all else on that path for those that walk after. This is [CHIM] the secret of how mortals become makers, and makers back to mortals."0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Grandsheba wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Transferring 50% of damage taken to the target would be laughably overpowered. It would be as strong as ironblood's defensive buff while simultaneously being stronger than the old DK wings. Even transferring 10% of the damage to the opponent would be strong.
For pvp or pve?
For pvp dks are fine, they can heal for 33% of their MAX HP! 33% !!! That's just one skill and one part of that skill, Draw on your draconic blood to heal for 33% of your missing Health. You also gain Major Fortitude, Major Endurance, and Minor Vitality, increasing your Health Recovery and Stamina Recovery by 30% and healing received by 8% for 23 seconds..
Then they have their dragons scales to reduce the dmg they take by 50% as well.
Flex your scales, reducing damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds. When you are hit with a projectile, you retaliate by launching a fiery orb at the attacker that deals 1799 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every half second.
The support line guard already has this ability at 30% and last indefinitely. This one only last until the tether is broken or the ability times out. The 10 wouldn't be OP if the 30% isn't an issue either. So this would work just fine in game with out being OP as it has many counters to reduce that 50% transfer dmg. All the ability listed above show that.
Not sure why you're comparing a heal to your proposed idea for Summoner's so I'm not even going to address that - Necro also has a very powerful burst heal.
Let's look at the DK wings. Current DK wings reduce your damage taken from projectiles by 50%, and only for 6 seconds. Your idea would reduce all damage taken by 50% for 20(!) seconds. Not only that, but in PvP it would mean whoever is attacking you would be nuking themselves by attacking you. This was deemed too powerful on the old version of DK's wings, and that skill only affected projectiles and ranged classes (and again, only for 6 seconds).
Guard is only 30%, and doesn't transfer damage to a target, it causes the caster to take more damage - this means the damage done by the enemy is still going somewhere, it's not just getting thrown back in their face.
% damage reductions are very dangerous in this game. It's the reason Major Protection was nerfed a while ago, and the reason they nerfed Spirit Guardian in the last patch. Throwing half of all damage taken to 1 enemy would be absurd. It would simultaneously be one of the best offensive and defensive skills in the game, comparable to something like Corrosive Armor, an ultimate. It would make necros untouchable in PvP. A group of necros could kill 1 or 2 attackers just by standing there. Pull a necro into a bomb? You're dead now because they just reflected half of your 50k bomb back at you. It would utterly destroy the PvP meta. PvE meta would turn into Necro tankapalooza - why run literally anyone else if necro tanks would be taking half damage just from being a necro?Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on January 21, 2023 5:26PM1 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Grandsheba wrote: »No point in comparing class abilities to each other. Find me a defensive ability like Spirit Guardian on other classes…
Yes summoners armor should be better (a lot of skills should).
Me being a fan of summoner type necro classes, I think it would be cool if it summoned a skeleton minion for 15 seconds when you take damage, with a 5 second cooldown so you could have three up at max.
No point in comparing yet you tried ti compare right after, an ability like spirit Guardian is a damage sheild. In fact most of Templar and dk skills I listed above are like spirit Guardian just with out the floating npc. There you go. The summoners armor is in the tanking tree so it's for tanks skills. You're idea would crash the game more than it already is, it's not feasible.
Reread what I said. I didn’t actually compare spirit guardian to anything. I was making the point that classes have different abilities so making a direct comparison between class armor skills is pointless.
Also spirit guardian isn’t a damage shield lol. It’s a very unique 10% damage mitigation ability that lasts 16 seconds with a nice heal over time attached. No other class has anything like it.
Also, if this game can’t handle a necro having five minions out total, then I don’t know what to say. Time to upgrade the hardware because that’s a horrible reason to limit class design.
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Grandsheba✭✭✭Grandsheba wrote: »No point in comparing class abilities to each other. Find me a defensive ability like Spirit Guardian on other classes…
Yes summoners armor should be better (a lot of skills should).
Me being a fan of summoner type necro classes, I think it would be cool if it summoned a skeleton minion for 15 seconds when you take damage, with a 5 second cooldown so you could have three up at max.
No point in comparing yet you tried ti compare right after, an ability like spirit Guardian is a damage sheild. In fact most of Templar and dk skills I listed above are like spirit Guardian just with out the floating npc. There you go. The summoners armor is in the tanking tree so it's for tanks skills. You're idea would crash the game more than it already is, it's not feasible.
Reread what I said. I didn’t actually compare spirit guardian to anything. I was making the point that classes have different abilities so making a direct comparison between class armor skills is pointless.
Also spirit guardian isn’t a damage shield lol. It’s a very unique 10% damage mitigation ability that lasts 16 seconds with a nice heal over time attached. No other class has anything like it.
Also, if this game can’t handle a necro having five minions out total, then I don’t know what to say. Time to upgrade the hardware because that’s a horrible reason to limit class design.
First, I completely agree about the hardware or lack thereof. All this loot box monet and no really upgrade to perform is ridiculous, that's another rant though.
Dmg mitigation is what a dmg sheild is, until recently some dmg sheilds only provide 50% or 35% dmg mitigation like the bone armor skill. Damage shields offer 100% dmg mitigation for a short period or up to a certain health. That's what spirit mender is/was. The mender has hp and takes a portion of the dmg. It also heals just like the support line's ultimate shield.
The visual may look different but the functionality is the same. If we change the spirit mender from 10% to 100% then it becomes very obvious that it's the same as a dmg sheild.
The comparison does have a point, whether or not you can see the point is arbitrary. The fact is that in order to create balance you have to compare what you have to ensure it has the same level of impact. For example, every class has the same number of skills, same number of ultimates, same number of morphs, passives and skill trees. When making a new class the foundation is already established. If comparison was pointless then when we would have a new class with 5 skill trees and 10 passives per skill tree. This is because there was no checks to balance by comparing what we have to what we add to ensure playability is fair.
This by no means, means that all classes should have the same number of dmg sheilds or dmg. In the same way that rock beats scissors, scissors beats paper and paper beats rock the opportunity is balanced and a foundation is set.
For now all armors have the same def. Buff which is the first comparison for balance. But what is added after to each skill is where the balance becomes tipped and correction becomes necessary. Now, not everyone needs to understand this concept. It's not for everyone to comprehend but it is a necessity for a good game.
The armor is an example of skills that have a Clear foundation that is being over stepped and how to raise the lackingskills up to the others thst out perform it by comparison. I hope this explanation helped clarify your confusion on the topic, if not it's fine also. This is more for a dev to dev read than a player, with all respects."The Tower touches all the mantles of Heaven and by its apex one can be as he will. Be as he was and yet changed for all else on that path for those that walk after. This is [CHIM] the secret of how mortals become makers, and makers back to mortals."0 -
Grandsheba✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Grandsheba wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Transferring 50% of damage taken to the target would be laughably overpowered. It would be as strong as ironblood's defensive buff while simultaneously being stronger than the old DK wings. Even transferring 10% of the damage to the opponent would be strong.
For pvp or pve?
For pvp dks are fine, they can heal for 33% of their MAX HP! 33% !!! That's just one skill and one part of that skill, Draw on your draconic blood to heal for 33% of your missing Health. You also gain Major Fortitude, Major Endurance, and Minor Vitality, increasing your Health Recovery and Stamina Recovery by 30% and healing received by 8% for 23 seconds..
Then they have their dragons scales to reduce the dmg they take by 50% as well.
Flex your scales, reducing damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds. When you are hit with a projectile, you retaliate by launching a fiery orb at the attacker that deals 1799 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every half second.
The support line guard already has this ability at 30% and last indefinitely. This one only last until the tether is broken or the ability times out. The 10 wouldn't be OP if the 30% isn't an issue either. So this would work just fine in game with out being OP as it has many counters to reduce that 50% transfer dmg. All the ability listed above show that.
Not sure why you're comparing a heal to your proposed idea for Summoner's so I'm not even going to address that - Necro also has a very powerful burst heal.
Let's look at the DK wings. Current DK wings reduce your damage taken from projectiles by 50%, and only for 6 seconds. Your idea would reduce all damage taken by 50% for 20(!) seconds. Not only that, but in PvP it would mean whoever is attacking you would be nuking themselves by attacking you. This was deemed too powerful on the old version of DK's wings, and that skill only affected projectiles and ranged classes (and again, only for 6 seconds).
Guard is only 30%, and doesn't transfer damage to a target, it causes the caster to take more damage - this means the damage done by the enemy is still going somewhere, it's not just getting thrown back in their face.
% damage reductions are very dangerous in this game. It's the reason Major Protection was nerfed a while ago, and the reason they nerfed Spirit Guardian in the last patch. Throwing half of all damage taken to 1 enemy would be absurd. It would simultaneously be one of the best offensive and defensive skills in the game, comparable to something like Corrosive Armor, an ultimate. It would make necros untouchable in PvP. A group of necros could kill 1 or 2 attackers just by standing there. Pull a necro into a bomb? You're dead now because they just reflected half of your 50k bomb back at you. It would utterly destroy the PvP meta. PvE meta would turn into Necro tankapalooza - why run literally anyone else if necro tanks would be taking half damage just from being a necro?
Ah your focusing only on pvp, judt how dmg sheilds have reduction form battle spirit this is where battle spirit would simply reduce this ability by half. This ability also only works with in range and with one target at a time.
You compared this suggestion to the guard skill from the support skill line. However the dmg always goes somewhere and I definitely agree that 50% is too high. I purposed this at a high amount to allow the idea to be seen and then adjusted down to what seems fair. Most likely it will get the Reflexive Scales change
[Flex your scales, reducing your damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds.
When you are hit with a projectile, you retaliate by launching a fiery orb at the attacker that deals 636 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every half second.]
Where here the tether would deal a percentage of the percentage back to the attacker as magic dmg to keep it inline with other skills.
Another example is blazing Shield from the Templar spear skill line.
[Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield equal to 4800 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off your Max Health.
Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength by 4% when the shield is activated.
When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 30% of the damage absorbed to nearby enemies.]
Now this skill is similar to my suggestion for the summoners rework but is far stronger as it deals dmg in an aoe from all dmg taken while keeping the Templar from taking any dmg and also increasing the dmg sheilds def by how many targets are around with no cap to this multiplier. A very good skill its simultaneously one of the best offensive and defensive skills in the game, comparable to something like Corrosive Armor, which is an ultimate. Whoa, dejavu!
All jokes aside, the point should be clear by now. It doesn't really matter if the skills is comparable to an ultimate, ultimates have their own unique charm but being able to utilize 2 at a time is whst makes it an ultimate as well. Please dont take this as disrespect, as I'm really enjoying this conversation with you.
Anyways, this skills was an orginal skill for the necromancers called taste of life, the function wasn't able to work and it was removed. This skill however does exist in game and only by necromancers npcs. Black rose prision vampire prison has a teather skills that takes the dmg dealt to the boss and redirects it to the tethered targets.
In the vault of madness there is a boss called the cursed one. This boss uses an ability called Drain Life – This skill creates a life draining beam that will attach to a random player and drain their life BUT the damage is based on the damage the boss takes. There are some other necromancers that uses this skill, the way to get out of it is to move away from the range, block, dmg sheild or out heal it.
Another thing I would add to this suggestion for summers armor is that it can be purged to make sure it has an effective counter."The Tower touches all the mantles of Heaven and by its apex one can be as he will. Be as he was and yet changed for all else on that path for those that walk after. This is [CHIM] the secret of how mortals become makers, and makers back to mortals."0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Grandsheba wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Grandsheba wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Transferring 50% of damage taken to the target would be laughably overpowered. It would be as strong as ironblood's defensive buff while simultaneously being stronger than the old DK wings. Even transferring 10% of the damage to the opponent would be strong.
For pvp or pve?
For pvp dks are fine, they can heal for 33% of their MAX HP! 33% !!! That's just one skill and one part of that skill, Draw on your draconic blood to heal for 33% of your missing Health. You also gain Major Fortitude, Major Endurance, and Minor Vitality, increasing your Health Recovery and Stamina Recovery by 30% and healing received by 8% for 23 seconds..
Then they have their dragons scales to reduce the dmg they take by 50% as well.
Flex your scales, reducing damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds. When you are hit with a projectile, you retaliate by launching a fiery orb at the attacker that deals 1799 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every half second.
The support line guard already has this ability at 30% and last indefinitely. This one only last until the tether is broken or the ability times out. The 10 wouldn't be OP if the 30% isn't an issue either. So this would work just fine in game with out being OP as it has many counters to reduce that 50% transfer dmg. All the ability listed above show that.
Not sure why you're comparing a heal to your proposed idea for Summoner's so I'm not even going to address that - Necro also has a very powerful burst heal.
Let's look at the DK wings. Current DK wings reduce your damage taken from projectiles by 50%, and only for 6 seconds. Your idea would reduce all damage taken by 50% for 20(!) seconds. Not only that, but in PvP it would mean whoever is attacking you would be nuking themselves by attacking you. This was deemed too powerful on the old version of DK's wings, and that skill only affected projectiles and ranged classes (and again, only for 6 seconds).
Guard is only 30%, and doesn't transfer damage to a target, it causes the caster to take more damage - this means the damage done by the enemy is still going somewhere, it's not just getting thrown back in their face.
% damage reductions are very dangerous in this game. It's the reason Major Protection was nerfed a while ago, and the reason they nerfed Spirit Guardian in the last patch. Throwing half of all damage taken to 1 enemy would be absurd. It would simultaneously be one of the best offensive and defensive skills in the game, comparable to something like Corrosive Armor, an ultimate. It would make necros untouchable in PvP. A group of necros could kill 1 or 2 attackers just by standing there. Pull a necro into a bomb? You're dead now because they just reflected half of your 50k bomb back at you. It would utterly destroy the PvP meta. PvE meta would turn into Necro tankapalooza - why run literally anyone else if necro tanks would be taking half damage just from being a necro?
Ah your focusing only on pvp, judt how dmg sheilds have reduction form battle spirit this is where battle spirit would simply reduce this ability by half. This ability also only works with in range and with one target at a time.
You compared this suggestion to the guard skill from the support skill line. However the dmg always goes somewhere and I definitely agree that 50% is too high. I purposed this at a high amount to allow the idea to be seen and then adjusted down to what seems fair. Most likely it will get the Reflexive Scales change
[Flex your scales, reducing your damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds.
When you are hit with a projectile, you retaliate by launching a fiery orb at the attacker that deals 636 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every half second.]
Where here the tether would deal a percentage of the percentage back to the attacker as magic dmg to keep it inline with other skills.
Another example is blazing Shield from the Templar spear skill line.
[Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield equal to 4800 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off your Max Health.
Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength by 4% when the shield is activated.
When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 30% of the damage absorbed to nearby enemies.]
Now this skill is similar to my suggestion for the summoners rework but is far stronger as it deals dmg in an aoe from all dmg taken while keeping the Templar from taking any dmg and also increasing the dmg sheilds def by how many targets are around with no cap to this multiplier. A very good skill its simultaneously one of the best offensive and defensive skills in the game, comparable to something like Corrosive Armor, which is an ultimate. Whoa, dejavu!
All jokes aside, the point should be clear by now. It doesn't really matter if the skills is comparable to an ultimate, ultimates have their own unique charm but being able to utilize 2 at a time is whst makes it an ultimate as well. Please dont take this as disrespect, as I'm really enjoying this conversation with you.
Anyways, this skills was an orginal skill for the necromancers called taste of life, the function wasn't able to work and it was removed. This skill however does exist in game and only by necromancers npcs. Black rose prision vampire prison has a teather skills that takes the dmg dealt to the boss and redirects it to the tethered targets.
In the vault of madness there is a boss called the cursed one. This boss uses an ability called Drain Life – This skill creates a life draining beam that will attach to a random player and drain their life BUT the damage is based on the damage the boss takes. There are some other necromancers that uses this skill, the way to get out of it is to move away from the range, block, dmg sheild or out heal it.
Another thing I would add to this suggestion for summers armor is that it can be purged to make sure it has an effective counter.
Blazing shield is not a fair comparison, as it is again far weaker than your suggestion. It isn't 30% of all damage, it's only 30% of the strength of the shield.0 -
Grandsheba✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Grandsheba wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Grandsheba wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Transferring 50% of damage taken to the target would be laughably overpowered. It would be as strong as ironblood's defensive buff while simultaneously being stronger than the old DK wings. Even transferring 10% of the damage to the opponent would be strong.
For pvp or pve?
For pvp dks are fine, they can heal for 33% of their MAX HP! 33% !!! That's just one skill and one part of that skill, Draw on your draconic blood to heal for 33% of your missing Health. You also gain Major Fortitude, Major Endurance, and Minor Vitality, increasing your Health Recovery and Stamina Recovery by 30% and healing received by 8% for 23 seconds..
Then they have their dragons scales to reduce the dmg they take by 50% as well.
Flex your scales, reducing damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds. When you are hit with a projectile, you retaliate by launching a fiery orb at the attacker that deals 1799 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every half second.
The support line guard already has this ability at 30% and last indefinitely. This one only last until the tether is broken or the ability times out. The 10 wouldn't be OP if the 30% isn't an issue either. So this would work just fine in game with out being OP as it has many counters to reduce that 50% transfer dmg. All the ability listed above show that.
Not sure why you're comparing a heal to your proposed idea for Summoner's so I'm not even going to address that - Necro also has a very powerful burst heal.
Let's look at the DK wings. Current DK wings reduce your damage taken from projectiles by 50%, and only for 6 seconds. Your idea would reduce all damage taken by 50% for 20(!) seconds. Not only that, but in PvP it would mean whoever is attacking you would be nuking themselves by attacking you. This was deemed too powerful on the old version of DK's wings, and that skill only affected projectiles and ranged classes (and again, only for 6 seconds).
Guard is only 30%, and doesn't transfer damage to a target, it causes the caster to take more damage - this means the damage done by the enemy is still going somewhere, it's not just getting thrown back in their face.
% damage reductions are very dangerous in this game. It's the reason Major Protection was nerfed a while ago, and the reason they nerfed Spirit Guardian in the last patch. Throwing half of all damage taken to 1 enemy would be absurd. It would simultaneously be one of the best offensive and defensive skills in the game, comparable to something like Corrosive Armor, an ultimate. It would make necros untouchable in PvP. A group of necros could kill 1 or 2 attackers just by standing there. Pull a necro into a bomb? You're dead now because they just reflected half of your 50k bomb back at you. It would utterly destroy the PvP meta. PvE meta would turn into Necro tankapalooza - why run literally anyone else if necro tanks would be taking half damage just from being a necro?
Ah your focusing only on pvp, judt how dmg sheilds have reduction form battle spirit this is where battle spirit would simply reduce this ability by half. This ability also only works with in range and with one target at a time.
You compared this suggestion to the guard skill from the support skill line. However the dmg always goes somewhere and I definitely agree that 50% is too high. I purposed this at a high amount to allow the idea to be seen and then adjusted down to what seems fair. Most likely it will get the Reflexive Scales change
[Flex your scales, reducing your damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds.
When you are hit with a projectile, you retaliate by launching a fiery orb at the attacker that deals 636 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every half second.]
Where here the tether would deal a percentage of the percentage back to the attacker as magic dmg to keep it inline with other skills.
Another example is blazing Shield from the Templar spear skill line.
[Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield equal to 4800 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off your Max Health.
Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength by 4% when the shield is activated.
When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 30% of the damage absorbed to nearby enemies.]
Now this skill is similar to my suggestion for the summoners rework but is far stronger as it deals dmg in an aoe from all dmg taken while keeping the Templar from taking any dmg and also increasing the dmg sheilds def by how many targets are around with no cap to this multiplier. A very good skill its simultaneously one of the best offensive and defensive skills in the game, comparable to something like Corrosive Armor, which is an ultimate. Whoa, dejavu!
All jokes aside, the point should be clear by now. It doesn't really matter if the skills is comparable to an ultimate, ultimates have their own unique charm but being able to utilize 2 at a time is whst makes it an ultimate as well. Please dont take this as disrespect, as I'm really enjoying this conversation with you.
Anyways, this skills was an orginal skill for the necromancers called taste of life, the function wasn't able to work and it was removed. This skill however does exist in game and only by necromancers npcs. Black rose prision vampire prison has a teather skills that takes the dmg dealt to the boss and redirects it to the tethered targets.
In the vault of madness there is a boss called the cursed one. This boss uses an ability called Drain Life – This skill creates a life draining beam that will attach to a random player and drain their life BUT the damage is based on the damage the boss takes. There are some other necromancers that uses this skill, the way to get out of it is to move away from the range, block, dmg sheild or out heal it.
Another thing I would add to this suggestion for summers armor is that it can be purged to make sure it has an effective counter.
Blazing shield is not a fair comparison, as it is again far weaker than your suggestion. It isn't 30% of all damage, it's only 30% of the strength of the shield.
Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield equal to 4800 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off your Max Health.
Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength by 4% when the shield is activated.
When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 30% of the damage absorbed to nearby enemies.
No, it's 30% of all damge absorbed from all sources that explodes in an aoe. Its a very fair comparison since nerco tether deal damge between the 2 tethered targets and both take dmg received and dish it back out.
"The Tower touches all the mantles of Heaven and by its apex one can be as he will. Be as he was and yet changed for all else on that path for those that walk after. This is [CHIM] the secret of how mortals become makers, and makers back to mortals."0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Grandsheba wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Grandsheba wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Grandsheba wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Transferring 50% of damage taken to the target would be laughably overpowered. It would be as strong as ironblood's defensive buff while simultaneously being stronger than the old DK wings. Even transferring 10% of the damage to the opponent would be strong.
For pvp or pve?
For pvp dks are fine, they can heal for 33% of their MAX HP! 33% !!! That's just one skill and one part of that skill, Draw on your draconic blood to heal for 33% of your missing Health. You also gain Major Fortitude, Major Endurance, and Minor Vitality, increasing your Health Recovery and Stamina Recovery by 30% and healing received by 8% for 23 seconds..
Then they have their dragons scales to reduce the dmg they take by 50% as well.
Flex your scales, reducing damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds. When you are hit with a projectile, you retaliate by launching a fiery orb at the attacker that deals 1799 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every half second.
The support line guard already has this ability at 30% and last indefinitely. This one only last until the tether is broken or the ability times out. The 10 wouldn't be OP if the 30% isn't an issue either. So this would work just fine in game with out being OP as it has many counters to reduce that 50% transfer dmg. All the ability listed above show that.
Not sure why you're comparing a heal to your proposed idea for Summoner's so I'm not even going to address that - Necro also has a very powerful burst heal.
Let's look at the DK wings. Current DK wings reduce your damage taken from projectiles by 50%, and only for 6 seconds. Your idea would reduce all damage taken by 50% for 20(!) seconds. Not only that, but in PvP it would mean whoever is attacking you would be nuking themselves by attacking you. This was deemed too powerful on the old version of DK's wings, and that skill only affected projectiles and ranged classes (and again, only for 6 seconds).
Guard is only 30%, and doesn't transfer damage to a target, it causes the caster to take more damage - this means the damage done by the enemy is still going somewhere, it's not just getting thrown back in their face.
% damage reductions are very dangerous in this game. It's the reason Major Protection was nerfed a while ago, and the reason they nerfed Spirit Guardian in the last patch. Throwing half of all damage taken to 1 enemy would be absurd. It would simultaneously be one of the best offensive and defensive skills in the game, comparable to something like Corrosive Armor, an ultimate. It would make necros untouchable in PvP. A group of necros could kill 1 or 2 attackers just by standing there. Pull a necro into a bomb? You're dead now because they just reflected half of your 50k bomb back at you. It would utterly destroy the PvP meta. PvE meta would turn into Necro tankapalooza - why run literally anyone else if necro tanks would be taking half damage just from being a necro?
Ah your focusing only on pvp, judt how dmg sheilds have reduction form battle spirit this is where battle spirit would simply reduce this ability by half. This ability also only works with in range and with one target at a time.
You compared this suggestion to the guard skill from the support skill line. However the dmg always goes somewhere and I definitely agree that 50% is too high. I purposed this at a high amount to allow the idea to be seen and then adjusted down to what seems fair. Most likely it will get the Reflexive Scales change
[Flex your scales, reducing your damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds.
When you are hit with a projectile, you retaliate by launching a fiery orb at the attacker that deals 636 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every half second.]
Where here the tether would deal a percentage of the percentage back to the attacker as magic dmg to keep it inline with other skills.
Another example is blazing Shield from the Templar spear skill line.
[Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield equal to 4800 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off your Max Health.
Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength by 4% when the shield is activated.
When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 30% of the damage absorbed to nearby enemies.]
Now this skill is similar to my suggestion for the summoners rework but is far stronger as it deals dmg in an aoe from all dmg taken while keeping the Templar from taking any dmg and also increasing the dmg sheilds def by how many targets are around with no cap to this multiplier. A very good skill its simultaneously one of the best offensive and defensive skills in the game, comparable to something like Corrosive Armor, which is an ultimate. Whoa, dejavu!
All jokes aside, the point should be clear by now. It doesn't really matter if the skills is comparable to an ultimate, ultimates have their own unique charm but being able to utilize 2 at a time is whst makes it an ultimate as well. Please dont take this as disrespect, as I'm really enjoying this conversation with you.
Anyways, this skills was an orginal skill for the necromancers called taste of life, the function wasn't able to work and it was removed. This skill however does exist in game and only by necromancers npcs. Black rose prision vampire prison has a teather skills that takes the dmg dealt to the boss and redirects it to the tethered targets.
In the vault of madness there is a boss called the cursed one. This boss uses an ability called Drain Life – This skill creates a life draining beam that will attach to a random player and drain their life BUT the damage is based on the damage the boss takes. There are some other necromancers that uses this skill, the way to get out of it is to move away from the range, block, dmg sheild or out heal it.
Another thing I would add to this suggestion for summers armor is that it can be purged to make sure it has an effective counter.
Blazing shield is not a fair comparison, as it is again far weaker than your suggestion. It isn't 30% of all damage, it's only 30% of the strength of the shield.
Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield equal to 4800 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off your Max Health.
Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength by 4% when the shield is activated.
When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 30% of the damage absorbed to nearby enemies.
No, it's 30% of all damge absorbed from all sources that explodes in an aoe. Its a very fair comparison since nerco tether deal damge between the 2 tethered targets and both take dmg received and dish it back out.
I dont think you understand how Blazing Shield works. You deal 30% of the damage absorbed by the shield back to enemies. So a 12k shield would return at most 4k damage. Way less powerful than your proposed idea.0 -
Grandsheba✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Grandsheba wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Grandsheba wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Grandsheba wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Transferring 50% of damage taken to the target would be laughably overpowered. It would be as strong as ironblood's defensive buff while simultaneously being stronger than the old DK wings. Even transferring 10% of the damage to the opponent would be strong.
For pvp or pve?
For pvp dks are fine, they can heal for 33% of their MAX HP! 33% !!! That's just one skill and one part of that skill, Draw on your draconic blood to heal for 33% of your missing Health. You also gain Major Fortitude, Major Endurance, and Minor Vitality, increasing your Health Recovery and Stamina Recovery by 30% and healing received by 8% for 23 seconds..
Then they have their dragons scales to reduce the dmg they take by 50% as well.
Flex your scales, reducing damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds. When you are hit with a projectile, you retaliate by launching a fiery orb at the attacker that deals 1799 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every half second.
The support line guard already has this ability at 30% and last indefinitely. This one only last until the tether is broken or the ability times out. The 10 wouldn't be OP if the 30% isn't an issue either. So this would work just fine in game with out being OP as it has many counters to reduce that 50% transfer dmg. All the ability listed above show that.
Not sure why you're comparing a heal to your proposed idea for Summoner's so I'm not even going to address that - Necro also has a very powerful burst heal.
Let's look at the DK wings. Current DK wings reduce your damage taken from projectiles by 50%, and only for 6 seconds. Your idea would reduce all damage taken by 50% for 20(!) seconds. Not only that, but in PvP it would mean whoever is attacking you would be nuking themselves by attacking you. This was deemed too powerful on the old version of DK's wings, and that skill only affected projectiles and ranged classes (and again, only for 6 seconds).
Guard is only 30%, and doesn't transfer damage to a target, it causes the caster to take more damage - this means the damage done by the enemy is still going somewhere, it's not just getting thrown back in their face.
% damage reductions are very dangerous in this game. It's the reason Major Protection was nerfed a while ago, and the reason they nerfed Spirit Guardian in the last patch. Throwing half of all damage taken to 1 enemy would be absurd. It would simultaneously be one of the best offensive and defensive skills in the game, comparable to something like Corrosive Armor, an ultimate. It would make necros untouchable in PvP. A group of necros could kill 1 or 2 attackers just by standing there. Pull a necro into a bomb? You're dead now because they just reflected half of your 50k bomb back at you. It would utterly destroy the PvP meta. PvE meta would turn into Necro tankapalooza - why run literally anyone else if necro tanks would be taking half damage just from being a necro?
Ah your focusing only on pvp, judt how dmg sheilds have reduction form battle spirit this is where battle spirit would simply reduce this ability by half. This ability also only works with in range and with one target at a time.
You compared this suggestion to the guard skill from the support skill line. However the dmg always goes somewhere and I definitely agree that 50% is too high. I purposed this at a high amount to allow the idea to be seen and then adjusted down to what seems fair. Most likely it will get the Reflexive Scales change
[Flex your scales, reducing your damage taken from projectiles by 50% for 6 seconds.
When you are hit with a projectile, you retaliate by launching a fiery orb at the attacker that deals 636 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every half second.]
Where here the tether would deal a percentage of the percentage back to the attacker as magic dmg to keep it inline with other skills.
Another example is blazing Shield from the Templar spear skill line.
[Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield equal to 4800 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off your Max Health.
Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength by 4% when the shield is activated.
When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 30% of the damage absorbed to nearby enemies.]
Now this skill is similar to my suggestion for the summoners rework but is far stronger as it deals dmg in an aoe from all dmg taken while keeping the Templar from taking any dmg and also increasing the dmg sheilds def by how many targets are around with no cap to this multiplier. A very good skill its simultaneously one of the best offensive and defensive skills in the game, comparable to something like Corrosive Armor, which is an ultimate. Whoa, dejavu!
All jokes aside, the point should be clear by now. It doesn't really matter if the skills is comparable to an ultimate, ultimates have their own unique charm but being able to utilize 2 at a time is whst makes it an ultimate as well. Please dont take this as disrespect, as I'm really enjoying this conversation with you.
Anyways, this skills was an orginal skill for the necromancers called taste of life, the function wasn't able to work and it was removed. This skill however does exist in game and only by necromancers npcs. Black rose prision vampire prison has a teather skills that takes the dmg dealt to the boss and redirects it to the tethered targets.
In the vault of madness there is a boss called the cursed one. This boss uses an ability called Drain Life – This skill creates a life draining beam that will attach to a random player and drain their life BUT the damage is based on the damage the boss takes. There are some other necromancers that uses this skill, the way to get out of it is to move away from the range, block, dmg sheild or out heal it.
Another thing I would add to this suggestion for summers armor is that it can be purged to make sure it has an effective counter.
Blazing shield is not a fair comparison, as it is again far weaker than your suggestion. It isn't 30% of all damage, it's only 30% of the strength of the shield.
Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield equal to 4800 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off your Max Health.
Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength by 4% when the shield is activated.
When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 30% of the damage absorbed to nearby enemies.
No, it's 30% of all damge absorbed from all sources that explodes in an aoe. Its a very fair comparison since nerco tether deal damge between the 2 tethered targets and both take dmg received and dish it back out.
I dont think you understand how Blazing Shield works. You deal 30% of the damage absorbed by the shield back to enemies. So a 12k shield would return at most 4k damage. Way less powerful than your proposed idea.
You dint sheild stack it for longer duration using barrier ulti?
That aside, the skill isn't meant to be weak either. As I said before I specced it high for the devs to balance it down lokw they always do. Taste of life was already a necro skill, it made it into the game but they couldn't get it to work on the class back then. I'd like to see the summoners armor be useful like every other armor skill by bringing taste of life back to the tank skill line."The Tower touches all the mantles of Heaven and by its apex one can be as he will. Be as he was and yet changed for all else on that path for those that walk after. This is [CHIM] the secret of how mortals become makers, and makers back to mortals."0 -
Perashim✭✭✭Would be an interesting change if Summoner's Armor also gave you a Damage Shield based on how many undead you have active. Not sure how useful it would be.Despair for the Living...0