For the most part it is the enemy mistake, if they let the NB to cloak & reset fight. If you are not using anything (even something basic like direct damage aoe) and don't react to what your enemy is doing & you let them cloak & go away, then um... technically it is your fault that they exploited.What's stopping someone who uses cloak. Just resetting a fight ? Especially in a duel ?
He's right, though. If you want to actively pursue a nightblade, you have to put the effort in and, yes, if you don't know how or what that means, then you do have something to learn. That's the beauty of an open world RPG. One of the reasons to play nightblade, or a hard to kill brawler tank for that matter, is that you are not beholden to anyone's else's idea of how to fight honorably. Open world is not duelling. You can roleplay with sportsmanship or you can choose not to. If nightblades could kill everyone, this would be a problem. In my experience, and contrary to what people have said in this thread, they can't.I'm speechless. I can't believe it. The answer! It's my fault that they press cloak and run away. [snip]
He's right, though. If you want to actively pursue a nightblade, you have to put the effort in and, yes, if you don't know how or what that means, then you do have something to learn. That's the beauty of an open world RPG. One of the reasons to play nightblade, or a hard to kill brawler tank for that matter, is that you are not beholden to anyone's else's idea of how to fight honorably. Open world is not duelling. You can roleplay with sportsmanship or you can choose not to. If nightblades could kill everyone, this would be a problem. In my experience, and contrary to what people have said in this thread, they can't.I'm speechless. I can't believe it. The answer! It's my fault that they press cloak and run away. [snip]
Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »For the most part it is the enemy mistake, if they let the NB to cloak & reset fight. If you are not using anything (even something basic like direct damage aoe) and don't react to what your enemy is doing & you let them cloak & go away, then um... technically it is your fault that they exploited.What's stopping someone who uses cloak. Just resetting a fight ? Especially in a duel ?
It is kinda like getting mad about sorc streaking away, but you don't have any gap closer & speed buff slotted... you can only blame yourself for making a mistake that was exploited by the enemy.
I'm speechless. I can't believe it. The answer! It's my fault that they press cloak and run away. [snip]
If you manage to fight 5-6 players by yourself, then you have nothing to complain about, whatever class you are on.PhoenixGrey wrote: »He's right, though. If you want to actively pursue a nightblade, you have to put the effort in and, yes, if you don't know how or what that means, then you do have something to learn. That's the beauty of an open world RPG. One of the reasons to play nightblade, or a hard to kill brawler tank for that matter, is that you are not beholden to anyone's else's idea of how to fight honorably. Open world is not duelling. You can roleplay with sportsmanship or you can choose not to. If nightblades could kill everyone, this would be a problem. In my experience, and contrary to what people have said in this thread, they can't.I'm speechless. I can't believe it. The answer! It's my fault that they press cloak and run away. [snip]
You said it yourself. Open world is not dueling.
When I m fighting 5-6 players by myself you expect me to spam streak just to get a kill on nb ?
I would have a one true counter to cloak if streak did not stack.
If you manage to fight 5-6 players by yourself, then you have nothing to complain about, whatever class you are on.PhoenixGrey wrote: »He's right, though. If you want to actively pursue a nightblade, you have to put the effort in and, yes, if you don't know how or what that means, then you do have something to learn. That's the beauty of an open world RPG. One of the reasons to play nightblade, or a hard to kill brawler tank for that matter, is that you are not beholden to anyone's else's idea of how to fight honorably. Open world is not duelling. You can roleplay with sportsmanship or you can choose not to. If nightblades could kill everyone, this would be a problem. In my experience, and contrary to what people have said in this thread, they can't.I'm speechless. I can't believe it. The answer! It's my fault that they press cloak and run away. [snip]
You said it yourself. Open world is not dueling.
When I m fighting 5-6 players by myself you expect me to spam streak just to get a kill on nb ?
I would have a one true counter to cloak if streak did not stack.
Elendir2am wrote: »Magsorc is probably least equipped to fight gankers. So any defence of NB in comparison with magsorc has to fail. I don't like gankers as every other, but I wouldn't touch cloak.
What I would like to see is less clumsy detection skills. They don't work as tooltip promises for example. I see detected gankers to go immediately invisible again too often.
Better detection skills would be still nerff for NB and other gankers invisibility, but it would help only to players, who are willing to implement some counterplay. Who don't want to adapt, shouldn't ask for any change.
I agree the AOE stun is fantastic for saving people. But pales in comparison to the value cloak provides. I'm much rather them get rid of the stun and give us buffs in other areas. Sorc is not unplayable but its definitely massively weak in comparison to everything else.
@AdamLAD
As a MagSorc main I think you're leaving out the utility of an AoE instant cast stun that Streak offers. Obviously this can't be considered when evaluating 1v1 situations, but I can't count how many times I've saved individuals or my group by AoE stunning another group that was focusing a friend. Just a thought when comparing cloak vs streak.
That being said, like you said streak offers an awkward offensive hard CC, that's very hard to follow up with damage after the streak stun. If the other player is adequate they have the ability to negate any damage following that stun by breaking free and rolling before you have the opportunity to finish streaks gcd and perform an attack that lands due to minimum travel time.
That being said..... Can we add Minor Mangle to curse as a Sorc buff!?! Feel like it fits the ability, helps Sorcs mitigate the high health meta that renders burst classes useless, and helps combat high health in general. Win, win, win.
Edit:
@AdamLAD
So I peaked your listed build on this thread with swiftness. I feel like it would lack so much damage, but maybe sustained damage due to tankiness makes up for it?
I run the standard Max Magicka setup, with crafty alfiq, Grace of the ancients, one piece swarm mother, 2 PC trainee, with torc of tonal for sustain, mage mundus, and all damage enchants (well one stamina recovery), roughly 54k Magicka with fair spell damage, and I get major breach from psjiic imbue weapons, and I STILL feel like I'm lacking damage, so I'm just curious how with that setup if you're even able to take down tankier players solo. I also okay with overload cuz I love the cheese. Nothing like getting a curse, imbue weapons, OL light attack, frag, and streak to all hit at once (even though honestly I feel like it underperforms for the effort it takes).
Elendir2am wrote: »Magsorc is probably least equipped to fight gankers. So any defence of NB in comparison with magsorc has to fail. I don't like gankers as every other, but I wouldn't touch cloak.
What I would like to see is less clumsy detection skills. They don't work as tooltip promises for example. I see detected gankers to go immediately invisible again too often.
Better detection skills would be still nerff for NB and other gankers invisibility, but it would help only to players, who are willing to implement some counterplay. Who don't want to adapt, shouldn't ask for any change.
The sorcerer has a skill that provides a countermeasure against gankers. Applies to self for a minute and when you deal damage to the sorcerer you get a stun. You can also wear a set of battle cry . You also have a streak that allows you to catch up and impose a stun and remove the NB from invisibility or run away. You have another curse... Try to kill the nb on the necromancer. After that, you will stop whining about the sorcerer who is unable to remove the NB from invisibility. Nb is much easier to kill as their survivability is much worse than warden or DK or Templar. So I don't see the point of your whining about the NB. Yes, nb is strong, but you are comparing a specific aspect of the class as an mana sorcerer when as a hybrid sorcerer is very strong.
Of course, I understand that everything is known in comparison, but I have such a feeling that the NB punished you too much that you forgot about strong DCs or Vardens or immortal templars with their death ray. Nb has two skills with which he wins. If you dodge them then you will survive. And the sorcerer has the most countermeasures against the NB. But you generally forget about them. It is much easier to kill NB playing as a sorcerer than than as a templar or a necromancer. Or other classes..
I agree the AOE stun is fantastic for saving people. But pales in comparison to the value cloak provides. I'm much rather them get rid of the stun and give us buffs in other areas. Sorc is not unplayable but its definitely massively weak in comparison to everything else.
The stun is too strong. Stuns even if the enemy dodges or blocks. You are talking nonsense. In addition, he brings the NB out of invisibility. Streak is the best skill in the game. What do you want to change?? Drop your class? I'm shocked by your suggestions...
PhoenixGrey wrote: »I agree the AOE stun is fantastic for saving people. But pales in comparison to the value cloak provides. I'm much rather them get rid of the stun and give us buffs in other areas. Sorc is not unplayable but its definitely massively weak in comparison to everything else.
The stun is too strong. Stuns even if the enemy dodges or blocks. You are talking nonsense. In addition, he brings the NB out of invisibility. Streak is the best skill in the game. What do you want to change?? Drop your class? I'm shocked by your suggestions...
I would rather have the damage and stun removed and buffing the skill by having no stacking cost.
Stun should be on frag like before
PhoenixGrey wrote: »I agree the AOE stun is fantastic for saving people. But pales in comparison to the value cloak provides. I'm much rather them get rid of the stun and give us buffs in other areas. Sorc is not unplayable but its definitely massively weak in comparison to everything else.
The stun is too strong. Stuns even if the enemy dodges or blocks. You are talking nonsense. In addition, he brings the NB out of invisibility. Streak is the best skill in the game. What do you want to change?? Drop your class? I'm shocked by your suggestions...
I would rather have the damage and stun removed and buffing the skill by having no stacking cost.
Stun should be on frag like before
PhoenixGrey wrote: »I agree the AOE stun is fantastic for saving people. But pales in comparison to the value cloak provides. I'm much rather them get rid of the stun and give us buffs in other areas. Sorc is not unplayable but its definitely massively weak in comparison to everything else.
The stun is too strong. Stuns even if the enemy dodges or blocks. You are talking nonsense. In addition, he brings the NB out of invisibility. Streak is the best skill in the game. What do you want to change?? Drop your class? I'm shocked by your suggestions...
I would rather have the damage and stun removed and buffing the skill by having no stacking cost.
Stun should be on frag like before
I mean this would just make sorc infinitely worse, wouldn't it? Frag is what gets dodge rolled. Putting stun on frag wouldn't help... Frag is what needs help landing.
Removing the stun on streak as a way to remove the stacking cost just means we're going to have sorcs streaking across cyrodiil again. Oh yay, now they don't die as easy, but they're even more useless.
Sorc has an excellent delayed damage skill (curse,) that they can land on anyone. They also have a delayed execute that's a little harder to land. And they have either crystal weapon and/or overload that they can attach to light attacks AND press a skill in the same GCD. ALL of this functions terrific with streak. There is no reason to lament "aw when I turn around to see who I stunned and fire a frag they already broke free," because streak should be the last thing you do not the first or second.
You take the stun off streak and put it on frag you just killed what little actually works in sorcs kit. All for what? To be able to run away indefinitely again?
PhoenixGrey wrote: »I agree the AOE stun is fantastic for saving people. But pales in comparison to the value cloak provides. I'm much rather them get rid of the stun and give us buffs in other areas. Sorc is not unplayable but its definitely massively weak in comparison to everything else.
The stun is too strong. Stuns even if the enemy dodges or blocks. You are talking nonsense. In addition, he brings the NB out of invisibility. Streak is the best skill in the game. What do you want to change?? Drop your class? I'm shocked by your suggestions...
I would rather have the damage and stun removed and buffing the skill by having no stacking cost.
Stun should be on frag like before
ZOS was on the right path removing stuns from Frags, Dizzy, etc. But they went crazy tacking a hard CC on everything. Totally making those changes to Frags incoherent and malicious.
My opinion is that the ONLY way to stun a player should be tied to a heavy attack on an off balance target. That is it. Remove it from everything else. Removing another player's control of his toon should be really difficult.
Seraphayel wrote: »MagSorcs found dead all over Tamriel after the Arcanist announcement
PhoenixGrey wrote: »I agree the AOE stun is fantastic for saving people. But pales in comparison to the value cloak provides. I'm much rather them get rid of the stun and give us buffs in other areas. Sorc is not unplayable but its definitely massively weak in comparison to everything else.
The stun is too strong. Stuns even if the enemy dodges or blocks. You are talking nonsense. In addition, he brings the NB out of invisibility. Streak is the best skill in the game. What do you want to change?? Drop your class? I'm shocked by your suggestions...
I would rather have the damage and stun removed and buffing the skill by having no stacking cost.
Stun should be on frag like before
Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MagSorcs found dead all over Tamriel after the Arcanist announcement
Well, there might be some truth to it. But I rather think that the current state of the class um... a "preparation" for the new Class, so that it would not seem as they are nerfing base game class in the same update the new shiny one is introduced.
It happened every time we had a new class. Always, the most similar base game class was getting gutted. When Warden was introduced, Tamplar got nerfed to the ground. Same Happend with Nightblade when Necromancer was introduced. So I would not be surprised if Sorcerer does not receive any love it deserves in the next update, just so ZOS could sell new class.
That is one of the reason I kinda dislike whenever there is new class introduced. Something else "base game" gets pointlessly nerfed.
@PhoenixGrey well I'm not a top tier magsorc so I'll take your word on that. But it seems to me another complaint is that the entire attack is easy to avoid. I don't see how removing a stun from something that can't be dodged or blocked and putting it on THE thing that manages to land least is helpful.
Sorcs have access to some nice combos with streak. Some good bursty all-happen-at-once combos. In an outnumbered situation it may not be wise to streak into the crowd to secure just 1 kill but streaking OUT of that same crowd is incredibly useful.
This change would destroy sorc, and I'll bet every fake internet dollar this non-sorc-main has on it. If nothing else changed... But they did THIS... Sorcs would be 2x as bad as they are now. They'd just be mobile potato farmers. They can already do that.