JABS Lore unfriendly

Quackery · January 2023

How many people have to complain before this damned skill is restored??

magnusthorek · January 2023

The way I see it, Templars bend Aedric energy which, I think, doesn't naturally have a shape itself. With this in mind, Templars' class attacks could be something like Kazuma Kuwabara's attacks from the 1992 anime YuYu Hakusho.

Simply put, it's just spiritual energy, which the wielder bends to something that just hints at a particular shape, without actually having all the traits an object has (rod, spearhead...). If you care to check YuYu Hakusho's fandom page, you can see some (tiny) images.

Jabs would fit the most rustic form of his attacks, which, if memory serves me well, looks like he's holding a lightning bolt. Crescent Sweep, on the other hand, would look like a different attack of his that resembles a perfectly shaped sword.

Charon_on_Vacation · January 2023

that happens if you outsource a lot of work and allocate a very tiny budget to it.
the guy that made the animation had neither a lot of time nor any idea what the nighthollow staff is. for him it was just another asset in a database he took a short look at.
from the perspective of an animator, this animation is really not good, even it would be an appropriate weapon.
everyone that has a bit of knowledge on the topic will see that this animation was just a paid job with neither time nor love to it. it gets almost everything wrong you are taught about animation, but it got the job done for the time the animator had.
thats why it will not change.
it was not important how it looked, only that it was done, as fast and as cheap as possible.

mmtaniac · January 2023

Yup templar become pve class. Pvp is impossible.

SaffronCitrusflower · January 2023

Charon_on_Vacation wrote: »

that happens if you outsource a lot of work and allocate a very tiny budget to it.
the guy that made the animation had neither a lot of time nor any idea what the nighthollow staff is. for him it was just another asset in a database he took a short look at.
from the perspective of an animator, this animation is really not good, even it would be an appropriate weapon.
everyone that has a bit of knowledge on the topic will see that this animation was just a paid job with neither time nor love to it. it gets almost everything wrong you are taught about animation, but it got the job done for the time the animator had.
thats why it will not change.
it was not important how it looked, only that it was done, as fast and as cheap as possible.

This is exactly why I stopped subbing when U35 dropped. It became painfully obvious that ZOS has put new people in charge of changes to ESO and they don't have any experience with the game or they wouldn't let these changes to jabs and flurry animations stand. If ZOS is going to scale their investment in ESO way back, then so am I.

Xandreia_ · January 2023

ESO is not TES, What might not be lore friendly in the solo games doesn't necessarily need to translate into ESO, while it has the name and some aspects of the solo games it is completely different. I wish people would stop comparing the 2, ESO is not skyrim or any of the other games.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · January 2023

Captain_Devildog wrote: »

Crafting Motif 95: Nighthollow Staves

This is the model of the new Templar animation of the "Jabs" after U35. Yes, you read that right.
"The Elder Scrolls Online" Is not Lore friendly anymore with this change.

Would the development team have any kind of love in their hearts to their costumers who supported the game since the beginning and just solve this issiue.

[edited for minor bashing]

Key word is generaly

NotaDaedraWorshipper · January 2023

Xandreia_ wrote: »

ESO is not TES, What might not be lore friendly in the solo games doesn't necessarily need to translate into ESO, while it has the name and some aspects of the solo games it is completely different. I wish people would stop comparing the 2, ESO is not skyrim or any of the other games.

Uuuh, Elder Scrolls Online is The Elder Scrolls. What are you on about?

Xandreia_ · January 2023

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Xandreia_ wrote: »

ESO is not TES, What might not be lore friendly in the solo games doesn't necessarily need to translate into ESO, while it has the name and some aspects of the solo games it is completely different. I wish people would stop comparing the 2, ESO is not skyrim or any of the other games.

Uuuh, Elder Scrolls Online is The Elder Scrolls. What are you on about?

No it's not, they even said it takes parts of the elder scrolls games and implement them into eso, but eso is a stand alone title

Kiralyn2000 · January 2023

Honestly, I've never even noticed that the 'spear' in Jabs has a design, let alone which design it is. It's a rapid animation during combat, who looks that closely at these things?

edit: in case it's not obvious, I'm on team "it's just a game, relax."

spartaxoxo · January 2023

Xandreia_ wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Xandreia_ wrote: »

ESO is not TES, What might not be lore friendly in the solo games doesn't necessarily need to translate into ESO, while it has the name and some aspects of the solo games it is completely different. I wish people would stop comparing the 2, ESO is not skyrim or any of the other games.

Uuuh, Elder Scrolls Online is The Elder Scrolls. What are you on about?

No it's not, they even said it takes parts of the elder scrolls games and implement them into eso, but eso is a stand alone title

Link to them saying it's canon on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/TESOnline/status/372017971423498240?s=20&t=dNOAHNn3xV2X1moL2KmObQother

resources on canon status of eso and other stuff

Interview Quote

One of the most common questions I get about The Elder Scrolls Online is whether its lore is considered canon in [the] broader Elder Scrolls [universe]. [Is it?]

"Yes, it absolutely is. We have one full-time loremaster that does nothing but work with Bethesda Game Studios to make sure that there's a consistent timeline, characters are consistent, naming is consistent. The timeline is [a] super important force to any lore. This is why we picked the time that we did for Elder Scrolls Online all those years ago when we started the project, was we wanted to pick a time where there wasn't a whole lot known about it, so we could at least tell our own stories with our own characters, and we do that. But yeah, when you start to bring in things like the Psijic Order and the history of the Altmer, yes, we're very much tied into the main lore. [...] [We work with Bethesda Game Studios] every day, yeah."

Source:

https://youtu.be/lNUCtNOp5dQ

Good Wiki article about what is and isn't canon

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Canon

Jaraal · January 2023

It would be more correct to say that ESO is mostly canon, as Bosmer aren’t stealthy, Argonians aren’t immune to poison, dragons didn’t exist in this part of the second era, etcetera. And the game’s own unique lore isn’t even followed closely, such as bringing back characters that were sacrificed in the main story to sell new DLC content.

Xandreia_ · January 2023

Jaraal wrote: »

It would be more correct to say that ESO is mostly canon, as Bosmer aren’t stealthy, Argonians aren’t immune to poison, dragons didn’t exist in this part of the second era, etcetera. And the game’s own unique lore isn’t even followed closely, such as bringing back characters that were sacrificed in the main story to sell new DLC content.

This! Nothing in eso is followed through, look at the use of lyris in the skyrim dlc, how many people sacrificed her in the harbourage storyline? Did she self res? What I'm trying to say is that even though eso has elder scrolls in the title not everything is lore accurate, the game is a stand alone title not to be confused with the other games, people take the lore aspect way too seriously with eso, zenimax contradict themselves way too often with dlcs that I'm not surprised jabs aren't lore friendly lol

NotaDaedraWorshipper · January 2023

No Elder Scrolls game has ever been accurate. Every game has done changes to the lore, many even contradict themselves, and game mechanics such as the ever changing racial passives shouldn't be confused for lore. Npcs comment how argonians are immune or resistant to poison and that bosmer are stealthy. Changing the passives is a dumb game decision yes, same as their obsession with reusing characters and the whole refusing a canon timeline.

But ESO is still part of the Elder Scrolls serie and canon. Period. It has added more lore than any other game.

BaalMelqartu · January 2023

I'm fine with them keeping the spear animation as is as long as they also have people wave a sword around when using their bow, maybe make the animations for sorc lightning abilities into lava, make dragonknight fire abilities look like frost, etc.

FeedbackOnly · January 2023

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I don't think it's lore unfriendly. Just because it resembles the Nighthollow spear doesn't mean it is the Nighthollow spear.

Except it IS a glowing night hollow stave used for the animation. According to lore, templars fight evil, they don't use evil vampiric weapons themselves. So using the night hollow stave for a templar animation IS lore breaking, not just strange looking and spastic.

I wonder if we still have a lore master?

Sheezabeast · January 2023

Quackery wrote: »

How many people have to complain before this damned skill is restored??

Hopefully never. The change is fine. Do you realize how many class skill animation changes Dragonknight has went through? And they're just fine? Come on, if we can life with poo fist, you can live through this.

ProudMary · January 2023

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Quackery wrote: »

How many people have to complain before this damned skill is restored??

Hopefully never. The change is fine. Do you realize how many class skill animation changes Dragonknight has went through? And they're just fine? Come on, if we can life with poo fist, you can live through this.

The changes to jabs and flurry animations are the opposite of fine. Your post appears to be saying that because you are unhappy with reasonable animation changes that everyone else should suffer.

The changes to jabs and flurry animations were very clearly not well thought out at all. They were done in haste and without regard to the other class animations for templar or skill line animations in the case of flurry.

As others have pointed out, it seems clear ZOS now has devs and animators working on ESO that are new to the game and likely have never even played it, else changes like the changes to jabs and flurry animations never would have been considered acceptable.

KilianDermoth · January 2023

.

UnabashedlyHonest · January 2023

I actually don't care much if the animation is lore unfriendly. I care that it looks ridiculous and spastic and doesn't fit with the other spear animations templar uses. They more easily could have just changed the timing of the jabs and left the base animation as it was to accomplish their goal. As it is they really messed it up and made a flailing around animation for some reason.

ProudMary · January 2023

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

I actually don't care much if the animation is lore unfriendly. I care that it looks ridiculous and spastic and doesn't fit with the other spear animations templar uses. They more easily could have just changed the timing of the jabs and left the base animation as it was to accomplish their goal. As it is they really messed it up and made a flailing around animation for some reason.

I agree. Lore doesn't matter. What matters is how goofy the animation looks and how radically they gutted all four of templars main skills for dps.

SaffronCitrusflower · January 2023

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

I actually don't care much if the animation is lore unfriendly. I care that it looks ridiculous and spastic and doesn't fit with the other spear animations templar uses. They more easily could have just changed the timing of the jabs and left the base animation as it was to accomplish their goal. As it is they really messed it up and made a flailing around animation for some reason.

I don't care that the animation is lore unfriendly either. I care that they nerfed templar into the ground when it was already an under performing class and that the jabs animation is so horrible and flailing.

The_Titan_Tim · January 2023

Templar was not an underperforming class by any means… not to say that what happened to Templar was acceptable.

Puncturing Strikes was always a very powerful ability against newer players, maybe even a bit too powerful, as those players haven’t learned how to counter it.

When you brought the ability into a fight against experienced players, there are some massive counters to how well it performed.

One way that Puncturing Strikes is countered was through the exploitation of Phasing…

Phasing is when you phase through your opponent, actively negating up to 100% of damage done by any cone attack, disrupting their ability to target you.

Another way the ability is countered, would be by increasing your movement speed to outdistance or move away from the spears completely.

These two counters to the ability more than warranted having some damage to it, as you had to account for the fact that very rarely would you ever land every spear against an opponent.

ElvenOverlord · January 2023

Kisakee wrote: »

Captain_Devildog wrote: »

Crafting Motif 95: Nighthollow Staves

This is the model of the new Templar animation of the "Jabs" after U35. Yes, you read that right.
"The Elder Scrolls Online" Is not Lore friendly anymore with this change.

Would the development team have any kind of love in their hearts to their costumers who supported the game since the beginning and just solve this issiue.

It's totally lore friendly. You're not getting a real spear to spawn in but an aetherial version that focusses and directs the weapon's destructive energy to an enemy which is exactly what you see - a "magic" version of the weapon.

Checkmate.

xthrshx · January 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Templar was not an underperforming class by any means…

Yes it was. You could search far and wide for a Templar in any end game guild. I would know because I mained magplar. Many end game guilds had DPS charts. I was in the top 3 or 4 Templars in many guilds, not because I’m amazing but because there were often fewer than 10 plars even contributing. I was hitting around 120k in U34 and that was top tier plar at the time (console) but not even close to what cros were putting out. The number 3 plar was equivalent in damage to like the number 30 cro.

The_Titan_Tim · January 2023

xthrshx wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Templar was not an underperforming class by any means…

Yes it was. You could search far and wide for a Templar in any end game guild. I would know because I mained magplar. Many end game guilds had DPS charts. I was in the top 3 or 4 Templars in many guilds, not because I’m amazing but because there were often fewer than 10 plars even contributing. I was hitting around 120k in U34 and that was top tier plar at the time (console) but not even close to what cros were putting out. The number 3 plar was equivalent in damage to like the number 30 cro.

How are you going to say that Templar was underperforming in the same breath you claimed you were hitting around 120k? When people ask for tri-fecta parses, they look for 100k+, clearly the class meets the requirement.

Cro and Dragonknight are over-performing in PvE as damage dealers, so if you are to compare a class that was in a good place to one over-performing, sure I guess it’s “under-performing” you’re setting the bar unrealistically, pushing for power creep.

Edit: You say you main Magicka Templar, look at my signature. I’ve been playing Templar since ESO had its Xbox launch.

I’m not some Dragonknight main trying to ensure his competition is in the dirt.

xthrshx · January 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

How are you going to say that Templar was underperforming in the same breath you claimed you were hitting around 120k? When people ask for tri-fecta parses, they look for 100k+, clearly the class meets the requirement.

Because people at the same skill level were parsing 15% more or higher in other classes. Parses in the mid 130k+ range were plentiful on cro and sorc at the time.

And maybe your trifecta group looks for 100k. Mine was looking for 115k at a minimum. Yes, I meet the requirements. I got GS on my plar. But when we started progging SS I was asked to get on a cro, like every other DPS (barring one zenDK). This was not uncommon at all. Plars were not seen as desirable in trifecta groups. And the fact is their damage ceiling was as significantly below other classes. Yes, a skilled player could still get big numbers; but that same level of skill on another class would translate into a 15k DPS increase.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · January 2023

xthrshx wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

How are you going to say that Templar was underperforming in the same breath you claimed you were hitting around 120k? When people ask for tri-fecta parses, they look for 100k+, clearly the class meets the requirement.

Because people at the same skill level were parsing 15% more or higher in other classes. Parses in the mid 130k+ range were plentiful on cro and sorc at the time.

And maybe your trifecta group looks for 100k. Mine was looking for 115k at a minimum. Yes, I meet the requirements. I got GS on my plar. But when we started progging SS I was asked to get on a cro, like every other DPS (barring one zenDK). This was not uncommon at all. Plars were not seen as desirable in trifecta groups. And the fact is their damage ceiling was as significantly below other classes. Yes, a skilled player could still get big numbers; but that same level of skill on another class would translate into a 15k DPS increase.

I recall this very well, as a Templar main myself. Templar wasn't wanted in almost any serious endgame trials group for sometime due to being outmatched by other classes.

The_Titan_Tim · January 2023

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

xthrshx wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

How are you going to say that Templar was underperforming in the same breath you claimed you were hitting around 120k? When people ask for tri-fecta parses, they look for 100k+, clearly the class meets the requirement.

Because people at the same skill level were parsing 15% more or higher in other classes. Parses in the mid 130k+ range were plentiful on cro and sorc at the time.

And maybe your trifecta group looks for 100k. Mine was looking for 115k at a minimum. Yes, I meet the requirements. I got GS on my plar. But when we started progging SS I was asked to get on a cro, like every other DPS (barring one zenDK). This was not uncommon at all. Plars were not seen as desirable in trifecta groups. And the fact is their damage ceiling was as significantly below other classes. Yes, a skilled player could still get big numbers; but that same level of skill on another class would translate into a 15k DPS increase.

I recall this very well, as a Templar main myself. Templar wasn't wanted in almost any serious endgame trials group for sometime due to being outmatched by other classes.

Templars weren’t wanted for no other reason than because they were melee. Now everyone is melee, so people go with whatever hits the hardest.

When 2/6 classes are doing leagues better than 4/6, the 4/6 aren’t underperforming… they are the standard, the 2/6 being the minority, are overperforming.

xthrshx · January 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Templars weren’t wanted for no other reason than because they were melee. Now everyone is melee, so people go with whatever hits the hardest.

When 2/6 classes are doing leagues better than 4/6, the 4/6 aren’t underperforming… they are the standard, the 2/6 being the minority, are overperforming.

No, this was the case when everyone was on daggers with a 2h back bar. Everyone was melee and Templars were still unwanted because their damage ceiling was lower. I’m not defending the logic here, just stating the fact.

I was hitting much higher on Templar than on Necro, personally, because I had practiced way more on my main. Believe me when I tell you, no one cared. Most end game groups would rather have a 110k cro over a 120k plar. It’s stupid, and I’m not defending it, but that’s how the game is. Imbalance in damage ceiling matters to people, and those imbalances are sometimes quite dramatic.