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Templars: Trading "Blinding Light" for "Radiant Destruction"
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axi✭✭✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Yeah, Shards used to be a “Disorient,” a stun that went through block, it was extremely good, I honestly don’t know why they made that change to remove it.
Because it was slightly delayed stun and that allowed for combos that enemies sometimes could do nothing about other than die.0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Yeah, Shards used to be a “Disorient,” a stun that went through block, it was extremely good, I honestly don’t know why they made that change to remove it.
Because it was slightly delayed stun and that allowed for combos that enemies sometimes could do nothing about other than die.
It’s no different than a medium weaved Spec Bow on someone Off-Balance, in that sense.
Edit: Volcanic Rune is a slightly delayed AoE stun, as is the fear trap on Nightblade, and that CC is unblockable, undodgeable.Edited by The_Titan_Tim on January 5, 2023 1:17AM0 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Yeah, Shards used to be a “Disorient,” a stun that went through block, it was extremely good, I honestly don’t know why they made that change to remove it.
Because it was slightly delayed stun and that allowed for combos that enemies sometimes could do nothing about other than die.
It’s no different than a medium weaved Spec Bow on someone Off-Balance, in that sense.
Edit: Volcanic Rune is a slightly delayed AoE stun, as is the fear trap on Nightblade, and that CC is unblockable, undodgeable.
It is different. Shards had some decent amount of dmg on impact allowing for porportionally stronger combo then medium weave on off balanced target plus it was undodgable, unblockable stun when medium weave can be dodged or blocked. It's kinda similar to when rune cage started to deal guaranteed dmg and became broken because of that. A little bit of dmg can make a huge difference.
Rune and nb trap are completly different and very situational since You need to place them and count on luck that enemy will be still standing in that same small spot for a moment. You are unable to perfectly time a combo with them. Shards were just guaranteed stun whenever You needed, fast enough to be reliable and delayed enough to perform strong combo.Edited by axi on January 5, 2023 9:34PM0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Yeah, Shards used to be a “Disorient,” a stun that went through block, it was extremely good, I honestly don’t know why they made that change to remove it.
Because it was slightly delayed stun and that allowed for combos that enemies sometimes could do nothing about other than die.
It’s no different than a medium weaved Spec Bow on someone Off-Balance, in that sense.
Edit: Volcanic Rune is a slightly delayed AoE stun, as is the fear trap on Nightblade, and that CC is unblockable, undodgeable.
It is different. Shards had some decent amount of dmg on impact allowing for porportionally stronger combo then medium weave on off balanced target plus it was undodgable, unblockable stun when medium weave can be dodged or blocked. It's kinda similar to when rune cage started to deal guaranteed dmg and became broken because of that. A little bit of dmg can make a huge difference.
Rune and nb trap are completly different and very situational since You need to place them and count on luck that enemy will be still standing in that same small spot for a moment. You are unable to perfectly time a combo with them. Shards were just guaranteed stun whenever You needed, fast enough to be reliable and delayed enough to perform strong combo.
In the current game, an off-balanced med weave spec bow does more damage than our entire burst + ultimate on a Templar.0 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Yeah, Shards used to be a “Disorient,” a stun that went through block, it was extremely good, I honestly don’t know why they made that change to remove it.
Because it was slightly delayed stun and that allowed for combos that enemies sometimes could do nothing about other than die.
It’s no different than a medium weaved Spec Bow on someone Off-Balance, in that sense.
Edit: Volcanic Rune is a slightly delayed AoE stun, as is the fear trap on Nightblade, and that CC is unblockable, undodgeable.
It is different. Shards had some decent amount of dmg on impact allowing for porportionally stronger combo then medium weave on off balanced target plus it was undodgable, unblockable stun when medium weave can be dodged or blocked. It's kinda similar to when rune cage started to deal guaranteed dmg and became broken because of that. A little bit of dmg can make a huge difference.
Rune and nb trap are completly different and very situational since You need to place them and count on luck that enemy will be still standing in that same small spot for a moment. You are unable to perfectly time a combo with them. Shards were just guaranteed stun whenever You needed, fast enough to be reliable and delayed enough to perform strong combo.
In the current game, an off-balanced med weave spec bow does more damage than our entire burst + ultimate on a Templar.
Yeah but nb does not have off GCD burst ability, assasins will is dodgable and templar have the strongest execute in the game that is also undodgable. Things do not exist in a vaccum. And quite frankly templar have pretty decent stuns atm.Edited by axi on January 5, 2023 11:28PM0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Yeah, Shards used to be a “Disorient,” a stun that went through block, it was extremely good, I honestly don’t know why they made that change to remove it.
Because it was slightly delayed stun and that allowed for combos that enemies sometimes could do nothing about other than die.
It’s no different than a medium weaved Spec Bow on someone Off-Balance, in that sense.
Edit: Volcanic Rune is a slightly delayed AoE stun, as is the fear trap on Nightblade, and that CC is unblockable, undodgeable.
It is different. Shards had some decent amount of dmg on impact allowing for porportionally stronger combo then medium weave on off balanced target plus it was undodgable, unblockable stun when medium weave can be dodged or blocked. It's kinda similar to when rune cage started to deal guaranteed dmg and became broken because of that. A little bit of dmg can make a huge difference.
Rune and nb trap are completly different and very situational since You need to place them and count on luck that enemy will be still standing in that same small spot for a moment. You are unable to perfectly time a combo with them. Shards were just guaranteed stun whenever You needed, fast enough to be reliable and delayed enough to perform strong combo.
In the current game, an off-balanced med weave spec bow does more damage than our entire burst + ultimate on a Templar.
Yeah but nb does not have off GCD burst ability, assasins will is dodgable and templar have the strongest execute in the game that is also undodgable. Things do not exist in a vaccum. And quite frankly templar have pretty decent stuns atm.
You’re absolutely right, things don’t exist in a vacuum, which is why you have to consider the entire kit with which all classes have access when contemplating where a specific ability stands.
As is, every kit in the game has equal opportunity to ensure their hardest hitting ability is unblocked and undodged, as Off-Balance can be found in Dizzying Swing and through the use of a Lightning Staff. While yes, you may be able to block or dodge one medium attack, maybe 2 or 3, there is only one way you are avoiding the stun from an above average player when you get set Off-Balance, that’s CC immunity.
As of 2023, Templar needs a rework and perhaps looking to the past for answers to current problems isn’t such a bad idea, which is the entire reason I hopped on my Necromancer and casted Raise Dead on this forum.0 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Yeah, Shards used to be a “Disorient,” a stun that went through block, it was extremely good, I honestly don’t know why they made that change to remove it.
Because it was slightly delayed stun and that allowed for combos that enemies sometimes could do nothing about other than die.
It’s no different than a medium weaved Spec Bow on someone Off-Balance, in that sense.
Edit: Volcanic Rune is a slightly delayed AoE stun, as is the fear trap on Nightblade, and that CC is unblockable, undodgeable.
It is different. Shards had some decent amount of dmg on impact allowing for porportionally stronger combo then medium weave on off balanced target plus it was undodgable, unblockable stun when medium weave can be dodged or blocked. It's kinda similar to when rune cage started to deal guaranteed dmg and became broken because of that. A little bit of dmg can make a huge difference.
Rune and nb trap are completly different and very situational since You need to place them and count on luck that enemy will be still standing in that same small spot for a moment. You are unable to perfectly time a combo with them. Shards were just guaranteed stun whenever You needed, fast enough to be reliable and delayed enough to perform strong combo.
In the current game, an off-balanced med weave spec bow does more damage than our entire burst + ultimate on a Templar.
Yeah but nb does not have off GCD burst ability, assasins will is dodgable and templar have the strongest execute in the game that is also undodgable. Things do not exist in a vaccum. And quite frankly templar have pretty decent stuns atm.
You’re absolutely right, things don’t exist in a vacuum, which is why you have to consider the entire kit with which all classes have access when contemplating where a specific ability stands.
As is, every kit in the game has equal opportunity to ensure their hardest hitting ability is unblocked and undodged, as Off-Balance can be found in Dizzying Swing and through the use of a Lightning Staff. While yes, you may be able to block or dodge one medium attack, maybe 2 or 3, there is only one way you are avoiding the stun from an above average player when you get set Off-Balance, that’s CC immunity.
As of 2023, Templar needs a rework and perhaps looking to the past for answers to current problems isn’t such a bad idea, which is the entire reason I hopped on my Necromancer and casted Raise Dead on this forum.
You forget one thing. You can off balance people once every 21 seconds. You can stun them once every 7 seconds. Medium weave through off balance is not as reliable when it comes to combos as regular stuns like javelin are.0 -
ssewallb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »Such powerful necromancy.
...but yeah trading the class' only AOE CC for an execute was um... questionable.
In theory shards were also an AoE stun. Jabs could also count in some way.
Shards could only stun one target per cast even though the damage is AoE. I would've been awesome if it was an actual AoE stun. The jabs snare was ok-ish in PvP but not really useful in, say, a tank scenerio where you need to CC a pack of mobs quickly to keep the group from getting nuked. The untauntable wolves in MHK for example
Early version of the jabs had a stun tied to the last tick. As for shards being true AoE well I think it would be slightly too much since it was a delayed stun.
You mean the really early knockback spam with no CC immunity? Pretty sure that got removed before or with 1.6. After that is was just free CC immunity.0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »Such powerful necromancy.
...but yeah trading the class' only AOE CC for an execute was um... questionable.
In theory shards were also an AoE stun. Jabs could also count in some way.
Shards could only stun one target per cast even though the damage is AoE. I would've been awesome if it was an actual AoE stun. The jabs snare was ok-ish in PvP but not really useful in, say, a tank scenerio where you need to CC a pack of mobs quickly to keep the group from getting nuked. The untauntable wolves in MHK for example
Early version of the jabs had a stun tied to the last tick. As for shards being true AoE well I think it would be slightly too much since it was a delayed stun.
You mean the really early knockback spam with no CC immunity? Pretty sure that got removed before or with 1.6. After that is was just free CC immunity.
Right the free CC immunity from Jabs was extremely annoying as you couldn’t time your burst window well with it.0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Yeah, Shards used to be a “Disorient,” a stun that went through block, it was extremely good, I honestly don’t know why they made that change to remove it.
Because it was slightly delayed stun and that allowed for combos that enemies sometimes could do nothing about other than die.
It’s no different than a medium weaved Spec Bow on someone Off-Balance, in that sense.
Edit: Volcanic Rune is a slightly delayed AoE stun, as is the fear trap on Nightblade, and that CC is unblockable, undodgeable.
It is different. Shards had some decent amount of dmg on impact allowing for porportionally stronger combo then medium weave on off balanced target plus it was undodgable, unblockable stun when medium weave can be dodged or blocked. It's kinda similar to when rune cage started to deal guaranteed dmg and became broken because of that. A little bit of dmg can make a huge difference.
Rune and nb trap are completly different and very situational since You need to place them and count on luck that enemy will be still standing in that same small spot for a moment. You are unable to perfectly time a combo with them. Shards were just guaranteed stun whenever You needed, fast enough to be reliable and delayed enough to perform strong combo.
In the current game, an off-balanced med weave spec bow does more damage than our entire burst + ultimate on a Templar.
Yeah but nb does not have off GCD burst ability, assasins will is dodgable and templar have the strongest execute in the game that is also undodgable. Things do not exist in a vaccum. And quite frankly templar have pretty decent stuns atm.
You’re absolutely right, things don’t exist in a vacuum, which is why you have to consider the entire kit with which all classes have access when contemplating where a specific ability stands.
As is, every kit in the game has equal opportunity to ensure their hardest hitting ability is unblocked and undodged, as Off-Balance can be found in Dizzying Swing and through the use of a Lightning Staff. While yes, you may be able to block or dodge one medium attack, maybe 2 or 3, there is only one way you are avoiding the stun from an above average player when you get set Off-Balance, that’s CC immunity.
As of 2023, Templar needs a rework and perhaps looking to the past for answers to current problems isn’t such a bad idea, which is the entire reason I hopped on my Necromancer and casted Raise Dead on this forum.
You forget one thing. You can off balance people once every 21 seconds. You can stun them once every 7 seconds. Medium weave through off balance is not as reliable when it comes to combos as regular stuns like javelin are.
I only need to catch you with one, 21 seconds or 7, it doesn’t make a difference as battles aren’t attrition, but burst oriented. Medium weave stunning is way better as it insures your next attack is unreactable where someone can CC break and roll dodge after getting hit by the Javelin or any other CC that you have to engage because of the internal 1 second ability cooldowns that were added to the game.0 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Yeah, Shards used to be a “Disorient,” a stun that went through block, it was extremely good, I honestly don’t know why they made that change to remove it.
Because it was slightly delayed stun and that allowed for combos that enemies sometimes could do nothing about other than die.
It’s no different than a medium weaved Spec Bow on someone Off-Balance, in that sense.
Edit: Volcanic Rune is a slightly delayed AoE stun, as is the fear trap on Nightblade, and that CC is unblockable, undodgeable.
It is different. Shards had some decent amount of dmg on impact allowing for porportionally stronger combo then medium weave on off balanced target plus it was undodgable, unblockable stun when medium weave can be dodged or blocked. It's kinda similar to when rune cage started to deal guaranteed dmg and became broken because of that. A little bit of dmg can make a huge difference.
Rune and nb trap are completly different and very situational since You need to place them and count on luck that enemy will be still standing in that same small spot for a moment. You are unable to perfectly time a combo with them. Shards were just guaranteed stun whenever You needed, fast enough to be reliable and delayed enough to perform strong combo.
In the current game, an off-balanced med weave spec bow does more damage than our entire burst + ultimate on a Templar.
Yeah but nb does not have off GCD burst ability, assasins will is dodgable and templar have the strongest execute in the game that is also undodgable. Things do not exist in a vaccum. And quite frankly templar have pretty decent stuns atm.
You’re absolutely right, things don’t exist in a vacuum, which is why you have to consider the entire kit with which all classes have access when contemplating where a specific ability stands.
As is, every kit in the game has equal opportunity to ensure their hardest hitting ability is unblocked and undodged, as Off-Balance can be found in Dizzying Swing and through the use of a Lightning Staff. While yes, you may be able to block or dodge one medium attack, maybe 2 or 3, there is only one way you are avoiding the stun from an above average player when you get set Off-Balance, that’s CC immunity.
As of 2023, Templar needs a rework and perhaps looking to the past for answers to current problems isn’t such a bad idea, which is the entire reason I hopped on my Necromancer and casted Raise Dead on this forum.
You forget one thing. You can off balance people once every 21 seconds. You can stun them once every 7 seconds. Medium weave through off balance is not as reliable when it comes to combos as regular stuns like javelin are.
I only need to catch you with one, 21 seconds or 7, it doesn’t make a difference as battles aren’t attrition, but burst oriented. Medium weave stunning is way better as it insures your next attack is unreactable where someone can CC break and roll dodge after getting hit by the Javelin or any other CC that you have to engage because of the internal 1 second ability cooldowns that were added to the game.
It makes a big difference when You have undodgable execute. Medium weave have it's use but it will never be better than reliable stuns. And to make medium weave stun good it's also usefull to have some delayed burst ability which nb in particular does not have. His assasins will is basically his full combo.0
