Yeah, let's nerf vampires even more instead of sorc's or dk's op ulti reduction!! Or instead of changing the ulti reduction armor, nah it's all the vampires fault!

cwbriggs6ub17_ESO wrote: »

i have seen lots of post from non vampires who dont understand the minus's of being a vampire (fighters guild weakness, poor health regin, fire resistance and dependance upon finding huminiods to feed) about vampire being over powered in PVP. Some is based on emperor (emperess) vampires videos on Youtube appearing invincible. Lots of that video invoked other factors than Over powered vampire skills (1. she was emperiss too with emperor perks, 2. the people trying to kill her had no understanding of how to kill a vamp, could have been killed easily with 5 or 10 people who stayed out of bat form range. 3. there have been similar over powered situations with non vampire DK emperors, no ones talking about nerfing DK. I have to say PLEASE dont NERF the vampire abiltities in ESO. In both Oblivion and in Skyrim Vampires were very powerful in certain niches just like in ESO, they also had weaknesses just like eso. Alot of people play only to be vampire (ME). I dont think vampires are any bit more pvp powerful than KnightBlades or Dragonnights. Also even if i lose matched set of armor & all three jewelry slots to offset my weak health regin/fire resistance.... any one with fighters guild skills can take me out easy since i am weak too undead spells.

Also as for nerfing emporors, i dont care either way ...ill prolly never be one so if its nerfed it wont effect my game. On the other hand it doesnt bother one small bit if the emperor is GOD LIKE, seems really neat the emperor is all powerful ... there is only one emperor on the battlefield so people should deal with it... in chess the queen is god like too.

PLEASE dont nerf the vampire skill tree. (Rumor is u are gonna nerf it with the Craighorn release) we all ready have to lose three slots to various enchantments for our health & fire weakness and even with that vamps are fragile if u know how to attack em (fighters guild & stay out of melee range ... our health regin is weak). thats tactics and makes the game more fun i think.

Vampires have already been nerfed, it's too late, go take a look at the other thread discussion said nerfs. Reduced vampire skill reduction per stage down to 7%, Elusive mists speed increase down from 45% to 30%, Bat Swarm can no longer stck on a single vampire(This one was deserved) But effectively increasing the cost of all our skills by 3x is ridiculous.

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Yeah, let's nerf vampires even more instead of sorc's or dk's op ulti reduction!! Or instead of changing the ulti reduction armor, nah it's all the vampires fault!

DKs do not get an ult reduction passive. Sorcs ult reduction passive is only 15% compared to the 60% reduction that the vamp gets at the highest stage. Even after the nerf it is still the largest reduction in ultimate.

Noth wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Yeah, let's nerf vampires even more instead of sorc's or dk's op ulti reduction!! Or instead of changing the ulti reduction armor, nah it's all the vampires fault!

DKs do not get an ult reduction passive. Sorcs ult reduction passive is only 15% compared to the 60% reduction that the vamp gets at the highest stage. Even after the nerf it is still the largest reduction in ultimate.

The DK ability I was thinking of is battle roar, when activating an ultimate ability restores 35% of the ultimate abilities cost. The Problem is Sorcs stacking vampire stage 4 for 60% ulti reduction + 15% ulti reduction + emperor + ulti reduction set, the solution is to put a soft cap on ulti reduction, not nerf ALL vampire abilities. I don't think anyone is upset about the ulti reduction nerf for vampires, the nerf makes all of our abilities 3x more expensive than they are now, and they're pretty damn expensive to begin with, what they should've done is separate ulti reduction and skill reduction, ulti costs 21% less to cast at stage 4, active skills cost 40% less to cast at stage 4. What it is now, ulti cost is base 200, at stage 4 post nerf, it'll only cost 158 ulti to cast, instead of the 80 it's at now.

Noth wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Yeah, let's nerf vampires even more instead of sorc's or dk's op ulti reduction!! Or instead of changing the ulti reduction armor, nah it's all the vampires fault!

DKs do not get an ult reduction passive. Sorcs ult reduction passive is only 15% compared to the 60% reduction that the vamp gets at the highest stage. Even after the nerf it is still the largest reduction in ultimate.

The DK ability I was thinking of is battle roar, when activating an ultimate ability restores 35% of the ultimate abilities cost. The Problem is Sorcs stacking vampire stage 4 for 60% ulti reduction + 15% ulti reduction + emperor + ulti reduction set, the solution is to put a soft cap on ulti reduction, not nerf ALL vampire abilities. I don't think anyone is upset about the ulti reduction nerf for vampires, the nerf makes all of our abilities 3x more expensive than they are now, and they're pretty damn expensive to begin with, what they should've done is separate ulti reduction and skill reduction, ulti costs 21% less to cast at stage 4, active skills cost 40% less to cast at stage 4. What it is now, ulti cost is base 200, at stage 4 post nerf, it'll only cost 158 ulti to cast, instead of the 80 it's at now.

Tell me, how much do those Vampire skills cost without the reduction? Unless they have some crazy extra costs built in per level, they don't seem anymore expensive. I bet it isn't that much more than many of the class skills. Any class skills that I see that do similar things are in the 300+, some 400+ in costs. DO they cost much more than that?

You are still asking to nerf other things that are balanced when not combined with the vampire. The vampire is the issue with those abilities not the abilities themselves. Oh and the DK talent doesn't give ultimate back, only health, magic and stam.

And the vampire is also balanced when not combined with any of those things, the abilities are fine, At vrank 5, invigorating drain costs 248 magicka, stuns for 3 seconds(broken like any other stun) can only be sued once per target and restores health and stamina equal to 150% of the damage done, invig morph also restores ultimate, name one class skill comparable to this ability, I can't think of one but I only play a sorc and a nightblade. Mist form, 514 magicka deserving of it's nerf imho, but also deserving of a buff. Vampire is fine when not combined with emperor + sorc + ulti reduction set, an entire skill line shouldn't be gimped by a couple of cheaters but 1 class passive in 1 class tree can be nerfed down from 15% I think, and even then I'm saying it's okay to nerf cost reduction passives of the vampire stages, I just think it's unfair to increase the cost of abilities like Invig Drain and Mist form by 3* when they are both VERY situational, I stand by my suggestion, separate the ulti cost reduction and skill reductions, at stage 4 ulti cost is reduced by 21% but leave the active skills as is. You're asking to nerf an ENTIRE SKILL LINE for the sake leaving 1 passive as is. The problem here is ultimate spamming, not vampire spamming, and with this nerf to vampires, utlimate spamming is still possible by stacking sorc + emperor + ulti reduction set, devouring swarm was just the most obvious because of it's already low cost at stage 4 vampire(costed 80, now costs 158, that's extreme.)

The reason I don't think invig drain is op is because 1. Easily broken. 2. Leaves you vulnerable for the 3 seconds it takes to channel the ability, you can't dodge, can't block nothing so ultimately, while you're sitting there regening health, you're losing that health to the 2 other enemies bashing your face in. 3. It can only be used once per mob to get decent survivability from this skill you need to chain it from one mob to another to another to make up for all the health lost draining 1 enemy in the first place, at veteran ranks, 150% of the damage done is only about 50% of my health pool, the damage does not scale well and now they're increasing it cost. 4. It's a very close range ability that's easily broken by accident by side stepping or back peddling

Noth wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Yeah, let's nerf vampires even more instead of sorc's or dk's op ulti reduction!! Or instead of changing the ulti reduction armor, nah it's all the vampires fault!

DKs do not get an ult reduction passive. Sorcs ult reduction passive is only 15% compared to the 60% reduction that the vamp gets at the highest stage. Even after the nerf it is still the largest reduction in ultimate.

The DK ability I was thinking of is battle roar, when activating an ultimate ability restores 35% of the ultimate abilities cost. The Problem is Sorcs stacking vampire stage 4 for 60% ulti reduction + 15% ulti reduction + emperor + ulti reduction set, the solution is to put a soft cap on ulti reduction, not nerf ALL vampire abilities. I don't think anyone is upset about the ulti reduction nerf for vampires, the nerf makes all of our abilities 3x more expensive than they are now, and they're pretty damn expensive to begin with, what they should've done is separate ulti reduction and skill reduction, ulti costs 21% less to cast at stage 4, active skills cost 40% less to cast at stage 4. What it is now, ulti cost is base 200, at stage 4 post nerf, it'll only cost 158 ulti to cast, instead of the 80 it's at now.

Tell me, how much do those Vampire skills cost without the reduction? Unless they have some crazy extra costs built in per level, they don't seem anymore expensive. I bet it isn't that much more than many of the class skills. Any class skills that I see that do similar things are in the 300+, some 400+ in costs. DO they cost much more than that?

You are still asking to nerf other things that are balanced when not combined with the vampire. The vampire is the issue with those abilities not the abilities themselves. Oh and the DK talent doesn't give ultimate back, only health, magic and stam.

And the vampire is also balanced when not combined with any of those things, the abilities are fine, At vrank 5, invigorating drain costs 248 magicka, stuns for 3 seconds(broken like any other stun) can only be sued once per target and restores health and stamina equal to 150% of the damage done, invig morph also restores ultimate, name one class skill comparable to this ability, I can't think of one but I only play a sorc and a nightblade. Mist form, 514 magicka deserving of it's nerf imho, but also deserving of a buff. Vampire is fine when not combined with emperor + sorc + ulti reduction set, an entire skill line shouldn't be gimped by a couple of cheaters but 1 class passive in 1 class tree can be nerfed down from 15% I think, and even then I'm saying it's okay to nerf cost reduction passives of the vampire stages, I just think it's unfair to increase the cost of abilities like Invig Drain and Mist form by 3* when they are both VERY situational, I stand by my suggestion, separate the ulti cost reduction and skill reductions, at stage 4 ulti cost is reduced by 21% but leave the active skills as is. You're asking to nerf an ENTIRE SKILL LINE for the sake leaving 1 passive as is. The problem here is ultimate spamming, not vampire spamming, and with this nerf to vampires, utlimate spamming is still possible by stacking sorc + emperor + ulti reduction set, devouring swarm was just the most obvious because of it's already low cost at stage 4 vampire(costed 80, now costs 158, that's extreme.)

The reason I don't think invig drain is op is because 1. Easily broken. 2. Leaves you vulnerable for the 3 seconds it takes to channel the ability, you can't dodge, can't block nothing so ultimately, while you're sitting there regening health, you're losing that health to the 2 other enemies bashing your face in. 3. It can only be used once per mob to get decent survivability from this skill you need to chain it from one mob to another to another to make up for all the health lost draining 1 enemy in the first place, at veteran ranks, 150% of the damage done is only about 50% of my health pool, the damage does not scale well and now they're increasing it cost. 4. It's a very close range ability that's easily broken by accident by side stepping or back peddling

So your ability that stuns, deals damage, heals better than any other attack+heal in the game, and restores stamina costs less than most damage+CC abilities (usually 300+skill cost, stone fist being 365). Btw, CC in general cannot be used on bosses, it's not something unique to the vamp skill). 1 use per person is because it is a very very strong 1v1 skill. That limitation is practically pointless when fighting a group as you can use it on each member of the group. Just like all abilities in this game it is not meant to be usable to the max efficiency at all times. I've lost count of how many times that single Vampire skill would had kept my character alive in pve because of how strong it actually is.

I don't think you realize how much abilities actually cost in this game if you think the Vampire abilities cost a lot without the current reduction. Without the reduction they'd just about be in line with the costs of other skills.

You obviously ignored everything in my post so I'm going to do the same to you. I covered everything you brought up about drain, why not tackle the other points? Stone fist isn't comparable, Drain is a unique spell.

Noth wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

ArgonianAssassin wrote: »

Yeah, let's nerf vampires even more instead of sorc's or dk's op ulti reduction!! Or instead of changing the ulti reduction armor, nah it's all the vampires fault!

DKs do not get an ult reduction passive. Sorcs ult reduction passive is only 15% compared to the 60% reduction that the vamp gets at the highest stage. Even after the nerf it is still the largest reduction in ultimate.

The DK ability I was thinking of is battle roar, when activating an ultimate ability restores 35% of the ultimate abilities cost. The Problem is Sorcs stacking vampire stage 4 for 60% ulti reduction + 15% ulti reduction + emperor + ulti reduction set, the solution is to put a soft cap on ulti reduction, not nerf ALL vampire abilities. I don't think anyone is upset about the ulti reduction nerf for vampires, the nerf makes all of our abilities 3x more expensive than they are now, and they're pretty damn expensive to begin with, what they should've done is separate ulti reduction and skill reduction, ulti costs 21% less to cast at stage 4, active skills cost 40% less to cast at stage 4. What it is now, ulti cost is base 200, at stage 4 post nerf, it'll only cost 158 ulti to cast, instead of the 80 it's at now.

Tell me, how much do those Vampire skills cost without the reduction? Unless they have some crazy extra costs built in per level, they don't seem anymore expensive. I bet it isn't that much more than many of the class skills. Any class skills that I see that do similar things are in the 300+, some 400+ in costs. DO they cost much more than that?

You are still asking to nerf other things that are balanced when not combined with the vampire. The vampire is the issue with those abilities not the abilities themselves. Oh and the DK talent doesn't give ultimate back, only health, magic and stam.

And the vampire is also balanced when not combined with any of those things, the abilities are fine, At vrank 5, invigorating drain costs 248 magicka, stuns for 3 seconds(broken like any other stun) can only be sued once per target and restores health and stamina equal to 150% of the damage done, invig morph also restores ultimate, name one class skill comparable to this ability, I can't think of one but I only play a sorc and a nightblade. Mist form, 514 magicka deserving of it's nerf imho, but also deserving of a buff. Vampire is fine when not combined with emperor + sorc + ulti reduction set, an entire skill line shouldn't be gimped by a couple of cheaters but 1 class passive in 1 class tree can be nerfed down from 15% I think, and even then I'm saying it's okay to nerf cost reduction passives of the vampire stages, I just think it's unfair to increase the cost of abilities like Invig Drain and Mist form by 3* when they are both VERY situational, I stand by my suggestion, separate the ulti cost reduction and skill reductions, at stage 4 ulti cost is reduced by 21% but leave the active skills as is. You're asking to nerf an ENTIRE SKILL LINE for the sake leaving 1 passive as is. The problem here is ultimate spamming, not vampire spamming, and with this nerf to vampires, utlimate spamming is still possible by stacking sorc + emperor + ulti reduction set, devouring swarm was just the most obvious because of it's already low cost at stage 4 vampire(costed 80, now costs 158, that's extreme.)

The reason I don't think invig drain is op is because 1. Easily broken. 2. Leaves you vulnerable for the 3 seconds it takes to channel the ability, you can't dodge, can't block nothing so ultimately, while you're sitting there regening health, you're losing that health to the 2 other enemies bashing your face in. 3. It can only be used once per mob to get decent survivability from this skill you need to chain it from one mob to another to another to make up for all the health lost draining 1 enemy in the first place, at veteran ranks, 150% of the damage done is only about 50% of my health pool, the damage does not scale well and now they're increasing it cost. 4. It's a very close range ability that's easily broken by accident by side stepping or back peddling

So your ability that stuns, deals damage, heals better than any other attack+heal in the game, and restores stamina costs less than most damage+CC abilities (usually 300+skill cost, stone fist being 365). Btw, CC in general cannot be used on bosses, it's not something unique to the vamp skill). 1 use per person is because it is a very very strong 1v1 skill. That limitation is practically pointless when fighting a group as you can use it on each member of the group. Just like all abilities in this game it is not meant to be usable to the max efficiency at all times. I've lost count of how many times that single Vampire skill would had kept my character alive in pve because of how strong it actually is.

I don't think you realize how much abilities actually cost in this game if you think the Vampire abilities cost a lot without the current reduction. Without the reduction they'd just about be in line with the costs of other skills.

You obviously ignored everything in my post so I'm going to do the same to you. I covered everything you brought up about drain, why not tackle the other points? Stone fist isn't comparable, Drain is a unique spell.

You seem to think that the Vampire skills cost so much more than other abilities they warranted a huge reduction in cost. The fact is that it is simply not true. The drain does more and costs less than pretty much any other skill in the game. All skills are capable of being compared (in this case drain is basically a combination of three parts that costs as much as a combo of two parts while maintaining the same power level).

You example of why Drain is not OP is laughable. You can burst down one mob, CC another, then drain another. Oh wow, you are no longer getting damaged while draining. You can then freely drain the last one. With very basic tactics the drain is the best survivability skill in the game for a non ult. No other non ult does as much as drain for such a low cost.

As for Mist, you example in the other thread I have to ask, were you the tank? If you were then mist should not had been you OH *** button. If you weren't the tank, then 4 seconds should had been more than enough time for the tank to taunt the mob, or even the healer to get aggro. In PvP, it's not going to be the best, but not all skills will perform well in all situations, that is why they have 300+ skill points available in the game.

You issues with these skills are not unique to these skills. All skill have situations where they are not as useful or just flat out worthless.

Even after the nerf, the skills will still be useful, they will just be less useful than now and closer to what most other skills are like. I'm not saying all the other skills are balanced, because they are not, and they too will be balanced with time.

As for you broken passives, they will be fixed. If you held off balancing because of bugs, that could keep something overpowered for far longer than need be. No developer will say that something is too good, but you can keep it because of a bug elsewhere in the class.

There are many other ways they could have nerfed the vampire skill line that would be far far worse or better. But claiming that this nerf will make the skill line useless is just folly as the skills will remain potent when used correctly.

No I wasn't the tank and it wasn't a problem of aggro, it was the boss that creates the fire snake in vaults of madness, but whatever you've convinced me, sort of, we'll just have to wait and see how these balance changes play out, but I still don't think these 2 skills deserved to have their resource cost tripled. And I don't think your first suggestion of CC a mob and bursting another is valid, because in order to have cc on your bar you have to give up some of that burst, for example I use the morph prolonged agony, which is a 12 second cc and dot, teleport strike, flying blade and swallow soul, all of these skills quickly burn your resources and don't have high enough damage to be considered burst, and I barely scrape by fighting packs of mobs using invigorating drain at veteran it's healing and damage it noticeably reduced. In fact, it's so noticeable and I die so often(And I do block, knock enemies down, cc, dodge etc.) I've rerolled my character into a shadow knight(nightblade tank)

cwbriggs6ub17_ESO wrote: »

i have seen lots of post from non vampires who dont understand the minus's of being a vampire (fighters guild weakness, poor health regin, fire resistance and dependance upon finding huminiods to feed)

I love it when people make any of these sound like a penalty. Oh no, a sub skill that actually gets stronger the... weaker you get? (reduced cost of powers by starving) a regen system that stands out as doing relatively very little (if this was a healing penalty you would have a point but this is regeneration), and fire resistance... that thing that everyone seems to cap out anyways which means a vamp player might take a bit more damage than everyone else but hardly noticeable. And oh noes, the weakness to the fighter's guild.... relatively harmless for only a minor boost to damage.