ZOS pls fix Vamp's ultimate and Passive Abilities

Walenok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq2-Zl1PETM
What you see in this video is the guy playing the current empress exploiting unintended mechanic that only works if a player meets certain requirements: 1) being a stage 4 vampire (60% spell cost reduction affecting ultimate ability!) 2) having a morphed vampiric self-healing ultimate ability 3) being a sorc or a dragon knight ( ultimate cost reduction passives) 4) having a specific armor set that also reduce ultimate cost 5) having a mist form 6) being an emperor
Now what is happening actually?
In short, if a player meets these requirements he can have ultimate ability cost reduced to 4 , even 0 in some cases. What does it mean? It means he can spam extremely strong self healing ability INDEFINITELY doing huge amount of damage
What;s worse. He can turn into a mist form that has 75% damage reduction AND receive ultimate self healing from the bat swarm which is not supposed to happen based on how the mist form works. A vampire in a mist form CANT get healing. BUT they missed that it doesn't affect ultimate ability bat swarm.
The thing is. The more people around the empress the more invulnerable she is.
We managed to kill her one time when she was alone avoiding being close to her , keeping distance and it took 50+ players. BUT it is IMPOSSIBLE to do if she is with her own group.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucmjldufa6U
It is totally broken mechanic exploiting mist form+ bat swarm
The title is a kinda misleading.
Vamp's ultimate needs a big fix. It destroy everything. Bad idea to make a little cost of ultimate. I hope Zenimax team will repair vamp mechanics and cut ultimate reduction out from the game.
Sorcs have incredibly good synergy with vamp abilities – both due to the ultimate/magicka cost reduction passives and the general ability for sorcs to get out of dodge when/if fire is an issue.
It will surely be fixed at some point, but right now it’s possible for a sorc @ vamp stage 4 to get the cost of bat swarm ultimate to under 10 ultimate cost. Combine that with impulse and you’re an AOE bomber from hell (both pvp and pve).

http://i.imgur.com/W6svXiO.jpg
It’s actually 200 – 120 (60% vamp stage 4) – 40 (20% item set bonus) – 30 (15% sorc passive) – 6 (3% seducer set) = bats cost 4 ultimate. Cost reduction for the ultimate is broken hence you can just spam it.
That 60% ultimate reduction is not going to last long.

ZENIMAX SAVE OUR LIVES AND PLAYS.

Futrix

There are soft/hard caps on a lot of stuff. Would that be the simplest fix here? Adding a cap on ultimate cost reduction?

Keapoe

You apparently haven't ran into a DK emporer*ess. Their banner does the same thing only better...

7788b14_ESO

Like fighting the early Jedi in SWG.

Walenok

One more video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtN-rB0OQVU

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

Small fix is to remove all those ultimate cost reduction effect from gear and class`end of the problem. Vampirism isn't overpowered even with the 67 ulti cost at stage 4 (when sorcerer) what is overpowered is the ability of player to reduce this already reduced cost so low that it can be spammed. If they raise the ultimate cost of vampirism it will not longuer be viable in builds without behing forced to constantly run in full akaviri set as a sorcerer with a seducer set while behing emperor. The issue isn't vampirism its the ability of player to reduce ultimate cost below an acceptable total.

How to fix this? what to remove?

1.Remove cost reduction on ultimate for emperor from the game and replace it with a magicka and stamina cost reduction on ability (this way ultimate cost remain the same)
Remove cost reduction on ultimate on set item such as akaviri and seducer and replace it with a magicka and stamina cost reduction on ability (aka what rings and amulet currently got)

2. Fix mist healing from the ultimate as to be unable to heal.


That way stage 4 vampirism ultimate cost never go below 67 (that is if you are a sorcerer) and we no longuer hear about invincible emperors with endless ultimate spams

Utildai

It would appear you all killed him, whats the problem?

Maverick827

DKs don't have an ultimate reduction passive.

Phoenix99

the ult cost reduction is BS to be honest. ppl already complain about for example DK standard cost of only 200 ult and we have vamps that can go with their AoE dmg and self heal ult to 67 and lower... the ult should not get cost reduction AT ALL aside of set items.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

Vampire having low ult cost is what makes it worth the 50% fire weakness in the first place. Its what also make it worth taking all those sacrifice. What must be removed from the game is the akaviri set and the emperor 200% ult gain NB already got an ult that cost 50 btway and Templar has one that has about 80 cost. vamp ult is pure raw damage with a little healer nothing to justify a high cost of 200

Balor

Well it seems that in most of the pvpers in the video did not understand the game mechanics and just kept getting in melee range. This is more of an example of not understanding a boss fight vs something being broken. Devouring Swarm does very little vs 1 target but if you are going to feed me 4 to 7 enemies it works wonders.

This is just an example of something catching the community off guard and they will be much better at dealing with it in the future.

Plus any emperor is a mini boss in their own right with the powers they get.

SeeD

Emperor buff is totally ***, the only thing a emperor should have and zenimax should have done it, is a leading buff for surronding allie like maybe +5% damage and vita or something in this line for allie in radius of 40meter or so and not a personal overpower *** statement they gave to him right now, is totlly broken

Mustaklaki

You don't need Emperor for it. How do you think they even get to Emperor...? They abuse these bugs.

Walenok

Mustaklaki wrote: »

You don't need Emperor for it. How do you think they even get to Emperor...? They abuse these bugs.

You are absolutely right. He got more 1kk cyrodiil points for 2.5 weeks.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

As I said they need to nerf the akaviri dragonguard armor set and the seducer set out of the game those ultimate reduction item realy don't help balance things out. Add to this the 200% ulti gain for emperor this is ridiculus. Vampirism is as fine as any ultimate with 80 cost would be in this game and god know theres a lot of them. Swarm doesn't have any usefull effect save for its healing morph last for a very short duration and only serve as a heavy damage nuke ability, its nothing so strong as to justify increasing the cost or to make the effects any weaker then they are right now (in wich case it would no longuer be a ultimate)

Vampire pays for these power with a very bad health regeneration wich force them to constantly carry at least 1 healing ability on their bar (more often then enough invigorating drain) and gear up entirely into fire resistance. Also this ultimate issue isn't only true for vampire... Im looking at mage guild shooting star ability right now. It provide 12 ultimate for each target hit and cost 200... Any damn emperor needs to hit only 9 target to instantly recover his full ultimate bar and cast again while raining destruction on the whole damn battlefield and in the case of a sorcerer wearing akaviri we rather talking about hiting 5 target or less (meteor storm time in alliance war?) go spam that at the entrance of a keep from the top of a wall you just destroyed an army!

shooting star
damage comparison: Crystal shard in the builder hit for 32 shooting star hit for 49 + 22 fire damage to all enemy (theoricaly this means that shooting star is the highest full damage hit spell in the game) soul strike 32 over 2.85 second (highest single target damaging ability in the game)
cost:200-30(daedric)-40(akaviri)-10(seducer)-10(emperor)=110
Ultimate gain: 12 per target x 200%= 24
Number of target to hit to instantly ult again: 110/24 = 5
Range of the spell: 28 meter

Anyone can do the math and see that any emperor who decide to play castle defence can just sit above the gate wall and spam Meteor on the people down here to wreck them to smithereens this spell alone hit insanely harder then crystal shard has a massive aoe effect and likely is instant cast (go ahead use a meteor every second and watch the world burn). Emperor is broken and that has nothing to do with behing a vampire or a dragonknight just remove those emperor ridiculus buff from the game. Even without behing emperor with all those fools siting around the gate any decent mage can just drop down his meteor on them and watch as they cry. You guys talking about vampire wrecking down your armies with a aoe dot? Im talking about a single guy 1 shoting them with a self recharging ult, if you think crystal shards sorc were op in pvp think it over what would happen if they ran shooting star in a ulti reduction setup!

(Damn I might have given a new idea for the rise of an unstoppable tyrant)

Klimarov

from what i see on video it really does looks OP, however the video raised few questions.

1. The vamp DK was VR10, and there bunch of low level guys trying to take him down.
2. he was clearly in heavy armor with sword and board - i guess he has some sort of tank spec.
3. from being a vamp my self i know that i don't get ultimate points from my bat swarm unless i actually kill people, if enemy is alive, i don't get ult. Many people there were Alive, clearly no way to re-pop Ult unless it costs 2 ultimate points.
4. for spamming that mist form, you need magika, which is not endless, and even dumping every thing in Magika wont make regen and pool be so high that it can be endlessly spammed, may be 8-10 times MAX you can get out of it. so eventually vamp runs out of mana.

In conclusion all i can say is that, bunch of lowbies tried to take down vr10 tank dk, who had some heals and of course had damage reduction abilities, and do you really think it's all just because of bat swarm? level up to his level and go fight him. A tank will be a tank, it'll be hard to take him down any ways but not impossible, and bat swarm has nothing to do with it. Currently it's bunch of low level flies trying to *** on elephant that is VR 10 and at least in full purple vr 10 gear.

Try and fight not a vampire VR 10 tank with full purple VR 10 gear, it'll be about the same.

Walenok

Klimarov wrote: »

from what i see on video it really does looks OP, however the video raised few questions.

Try and fight not a vampire VR 10 tank with full purple VR 10 gear, it'll be about the same.

Try to be a vampire VR 10 tank with full purple VR 10 gear in fair play. Ofc, it need about a few months.

cjtignub17_ESO

This video really doesn't show anything. This video has been analyzed quite extensively on reddit and the conclusions were:

1.) There are 2 pocket healers healing him. Based on animations it appears one is near constantly casting Resto staff ward on him which pretty much can keep anyone alive against a zerg bc its ridic strong

2.) He is a DK tank and emperor on top of that so all heals are 50% stronger and he has 200% HP and magicka. A DK tank even without emperor can soak up damage pretty amazingly add on emperor and you have a nearly unkillable class with a pocket healer
- HOWEVER, while he may appear unkillable it is important to point out he is doing near NO damage to any one else and is really not a threat he is just a meat shield that should really just be ignored until his healers/dps friends are nuked down (same as in PvE)

3.) He is a signif higher VR level than the people he is fighting

4.) He is barely even using vamp ultimate which negates the entire point of cheap ultimates. He is casting it at a regular rate that msot people can cast negate magic or OD or standard

5.) The screen shots of people getting 4 ultimate were photoshopped. That has been extesnively posted about on Reddit the lowest that it can be gotten to is 44 with 2x sets, vamp 4, sorc. The photoshopper removed a 4. We have tested this in cyrodiil and posted it to the Devs at vamp lvl 4. Sure the math comes out to 4 ultimate but that is not the case.
- Maybe with emperor ulti reduction it can be 4 but again that doesn't really matter bat swarm is crap. it only does 200 dmg aoe which can easily be outhealed and its heal on you is weak if the enemy spreads out and knows that they are doing. Against noobs its an effective heal but again its damage is weak,

Negate magic is far more effective given 18% heal and magicka regen per second plus another 5% from blood magic. That makes an unkillable class not batswarm.

cjtignub17_ESO

Also we killed him yesterday night at our pvp event with 3 people (me, evieve and healz). I think the entire pvp event was fraps so I'll try to find the footage its burried in 6 hours of video lol.

Anyways we just negated him and killed him thats also posted on reddit. He dropped pretty fast without his pocket healers and buffs.

Mustaklaki

You completely missed the point of the build... it's easy to kill them 3v1, obviously. Inside of Elusive Mist and spamming Devouring Swarm against a zerg? No, not so much.

cjtignub17_ESO

Uhh yeah it is have your group spread out doesn't matter if its 100 or 30 and focus fire him. If u sit in an AOE that heals what do u expect.... thats just common sense.

Shouldn't nerf a skill because people are noobs and don't know how to pvp

nimrod1984b16_ESO

STILL NOT FIXED maybe they are to busy to not LOOK into forums and wanny fix some more side quests instead of gamebreakers in PVP

Walenok

Half players in Cyrodiil use this *** broken vamp ult.

Mustaklaki

cjtignub17_ESO wrote: »

Uhh yeah it is have your group spread out doesn't matter if its 100 or 30 and focus fire him. If u sit in an AOE that heals what do u expect.... thats just common sense.

Shouldn't nerf a skill because people are noobs and don't know how to pvp

Don't know how to PvP lol. With Elusive Mist you can't run away, they move with +45% movement speed. And if you're with a bunch of randoms (what a zerg is), you try communicating properly and tell everyone to just run away. They probably won't even read your message. They only killed the Vamp in the OP's video because they had tons of healers and would just spam Silver Bolts until they got lucky and got the 5% chance to do tons of damage. That's not really a counter... that's getting lucky.

The second video someone else linked is a better representation of what happens in Cyrodiil.

ChampionSheWolf

nimrod1984b16_ESO wrote: »

STILL NOT FIXED maybe they are to busy to not LOOK into forums and wanny fix some more side quests instead of gamebreakers in PVP

Even if the devs were to say they are attempting to fix it, the solution would not happen immediately. They have to look at the code, which is not as easy as it sounds, not to mention figure out how to balance this without overly nerfing something or overly buffing something else and throwing the thread bare balance as it stands out of the window.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

How to balance it? Remove the 200 ult gain from emperor remove the 20 ult reduction from akaviri and the 5 from seducer and if you realy want to make it fair make it so the ult reduction of the sorcerer ONLY apply to conjuration end of the problem. Vamp ult isn't OP as it is for as long as you don't gain external ult reduction. Anyone with ult reduction can make close to all ult near permanent with emperor active.

By the love of lamae stop trying to nerf something that isn't bugged and work as intended and nerf the conditional stacking set items bonuses wich should never have existed in the first place. All those ragers who hardly even know what they asking for long as something gets nerfed are hardly looking at the root of the problem. It doesn't mather if you nerf bat swarm because tomorrow we will have shooting stars dragonknight banners and veil of blade spammers instead (or just any Doped ultimate spammer build because with the current emperor ultimate gain augmentation getting to 200 ultimate even without reduction can be done within seconds for anyone who use a build based on gathering ultimate point!). Emperor regardless of build or gear should not be able to keep ultimate permanently so remove ultimate reduction on gear and ultimate gain from emperor trait to begin with. If you realy wanna make a tanky emperor then add him a 50% damage reduction instead of the ulti gain this will fix the issue by making him hard to kill without impossible to kill.

If a guy can spam the assassination ult move or the aedric spear ult move as an emperor would you call that OP? Well right now its all the same as for vampirism. Stop trying to nerf skill based on a pvp exploit and nerf the pvp buff itself aka emperor akaviri set and seducer sets stacking.

Vraneon

Walenok wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq2-Zl1PETM
What you see in this video is the guy playing the current empress exploiting unintended mechanic that only works if a player meets certain requirements: 1) being a stage 4 vampire (60% spell cost reduction affecting ultimate ability!) 2) having a morphed vampiric self-healing ultimate ability 3) being a sorc or a dragon knight ( ultimate cost reduction passives) 4) having a specific armor set that also reduce ultimate cost 5) having a mist form 6) being an emperor
Now what is happening actually?
In short, if a player meets these requirements he can have ultimate ability cost reduced to 4 , even 0 in some cases. What does it mean? It means he can spam extremely strong self healing ability INDEFINITELY doing huge amount of damage
What;s worse. He can turn into a mist form that has 75% damage reduction AND receive ultimate self healing from the bat swarm which is not supposed to happen based on how the mist form works. A vampire in a mist form CANT get healing. BUT they missed that it doesn't affect ultimate ability bat swarm.
The thing is. The more people around the empress the more invulnerable she is.
We managed to kill her one time when she was alone avoiding being close to her , keeping distance and it took 50+ players. BUT it is IMPOSSIBLE to do if she is with her own group.
It is totally broken mechanic exploiting mist form+ bat swarm
The title is a kinda misleading.
Vamp's ultimate needs a big fix. It destroy everything. Bad idea to make a little cost of ultimate. I hope Zenimax team will repair vamp mechanics and cut ultimate reduction out from the game.
Sorcs have incredibly good synergy with vamp abilities – both due to the ultimate/magicka cost reduction passives and the general ability for sorcs to get out of dodge when/if fire is an issue.
It will surely be fixed at some point, but right now it’s possible for a sorc @ vamp stage 4 to get the cost of bat swarm ultimate to under 10 ultimate cost. Combine that with impulse and you’re an AOE bomber from hell (both pvp and pve).

http://i.imgur.com/W6svXiO.jpg
It’s actually 200 – 120 (60% vamp stage 4) – 40 (20% item set bonus) – 30 (15% sorc passive) – 6 (3% seducer set) = bats cost 4 ultimate. Cost reduction for the ultimate is broken hence you can just spam it.
That 60% ultimate reduction is not going to last long.

ZENIMAX SAVE OUR LIVES AND PLAYS.

I absolutely agree with you. And even if you arent an emperor, vampires can pretty much spam that damage reduction skill, which makes a campire in light armour/sorcerer count for like 4 players. There needs to be done something with those vampire skills! I know players who already started becoming vampire, just because you become massively stronger.


I SAY NO TO VAMPIRE EMPIRE !

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

The issue isn't the vampire skill. The 80 unreduced stage 4 cost is perfectly legit for a damage aoe effect that last 5 second and deals progressive damage

The ultimate is perfectly legit for the purpose of its effect, When calculating these maths It deals less damage then veil of blade provide no actual buff and needs to be morphed to actualy be usefull while providing no lasting effect save for health gained, It is just as legit as the aedric spear empowering sweep while requiring you to gimp yourself with a 50% fire damage increase its just normal for vampire ultimate to be slightly more powerful then a classic ult not to mention you need to force yourself in stage 4 and nearly nullify out of combat health regeneration because yes stage 4 vampire cannot heal out of combat save from their abilities.

The true issue comes from armor sets bonus wich shouldn't exist in the first place. While sorcerer 15% ultimate reduction is justified by the absence of ult generation ability in its lines theres no reason why a gear set wich is obtainable only for veteran rank 1 and lvl 22s should be so overpowered as to be better to wear then a vet 10 gearset! Players are wearing a shield helm sword chestpiece set for the +20% ult reduction on their endgame vampire build because the set is broken and gives a better bonus then a class main passive not because vampire is!

Even worse is the emperor 200% ultimate gain wich makes reaching a full ult bar even at 200 ridiculously easy, just REMOVE that or replace it by ''gain 1 more ultimate per attack''.

You want to nerf the vampire ultimate spell? fine go ahead but make sure you double the vampire power by giving them the endless ability to cast Essence drain on targets WITHEOUT cooldown or give us a damnable good reason to gimp ourselves with 50% fire weakness if we are to take a ultimate that is barely as good as what our class provides us!

Heck reduce the damage from that spell make it an ability that can be casted at will for a magicka cost and resplenish a fairly strong amount of health (aka better then the normal regeneration spell on resto staff) Then give us the ability to summon a Gargoyle pet that hits like a truck or to turn into a vampire lord killing machine in the Skyrim fashion. Vampire are meant to be stronger then normal character because of their specific weaknesses which limit their effectiveness in battle to situational fights. Theres no point to having weakness if there is no advantages to begin with. People pick vampirism because they agreed to gimp themselves with those weakness in exchange for the power they gain.

Regardless of how vampire is changed it must remain stronguer then a normal character in all situation that doesn't involve fire or undrainable targets.

Jaxom

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO wrote: »

The issue isn't the vampire skill. The 80 unreduced stage 4 cost is perfectly legit for a damage aoe effect that last 5 second and deals progressive damage

The ultimate is perfectly legit for the purpose of its effect, When calculating these maths It deals less damage then veil of blade provide no actual buff and needs to be morphed to actualy be usefull while providing no lasting effect save for health gained, It is just as legit as the aedric spear empowering sweep while requiring you to gimp yourself with a 50% fire damage increase its just normal for vampire ultimate to be slightly more powerful then a classic ult not to mention you need to force yourself in stage 4 and nearly nullify out of combat health regeneration because yes stage 4 vampire cannot heal out of combat save from their abilities.

The true issue comes from armor sets bonus wich shouldn't exist in the first place. While sorcerer 15% ultimate reduction is justified by the absence of ult generation ability in its lines theres no reason why a gear set wich is obtainable only for veteran rank 1 and lvl 22s should be so overpowered as to be better to wear then a vet 10 gearset! Players are wearing a shield helm sword chestpiece set for the +20% ult reduction on their endgame vampire build because the set is broken and gives a better bonus then a class main passive not because vampire is!

Even worse is the emperor 200% ultimate gain wich makes reaching a full ult bar even at 200 ridiculously easy, just REMOVE that or replace it by ''gain 1 more ultimate per attack''.

You want to nerf the vampire ultimate spell? fine go ahead but make sure you double the vampire power by giving them the endless ability to cast Essence drain on targets WITHEOUT cooldown or give us a damnable good reason to gimp ourselves with 50% fire weakness if we are to take a ultimate that is barely as good as what our class provides us!

Heck reduce the damage from that spell make it an ability that can be casted at will for a magicka cost and resplenish a fairly strong amount of health (aka better then the normal regeneration spell on resto staff) Then give us the ability to summon a Gargoyle pet that hits like a truck or to turn into a vampire lord killing machine in the Skyrim fashion. Vampire are meant to be stronger then normal character because of their specific weaknesses which limit their effectiveness in battle to situational fights. Theres no point to having weakness if there is no advantages to begin with. People pick vampirism because they agreed to gimp themselves with those weakness in exchange for the power they gain.

Regardless of how vampire is changed it must remain stronguer then a normal character in all situation that doesn't involve fire or undrainable targets.

/slowclap I couldn't have said it better myself. Zos, please hire this guy. Seriously.

Sezmu

Thread is poorly researched, Emporer/ress is designed to be like a raid boss, Hardly saw anything OP in the video. Major issue the "picture proof" is a photoshop job the guy even admitted it on reddit. the real cost is around 40 Ultimate.

Now there are sets and builds that can make that 40 ultimate seem like its 4 in crowds like that with Emporer buffs

Walenok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucmjldufa6U