Status Update on Server Code Redesign?

edward_frigidhands · November 2022

Hello,

As the title states, I am curious about updates regarding the server code redesign that we had been told about almost a year ago in order to address the many server side performance issues when it came to:

- Trials
- PvP
- General play during prime time hours

It has been a while without any information or updates regarding what is happening on that end and what progress if any has been made.

I am hoping the devs can respond to this with something concrete regarding this matter.

LarsS · November 2022

It should be possible to give us at probable time plan like the one we got for the EU/PC hardwares uppgrade.

blktauna · November 2022

I, for one, would be very interested in hearing about their progress.

Amottica · November 2022

@ZOS_Kevin commented on this just a few weeks ago, which was a repeat of what they said just a few weeks before that. I will provide it here.

I did answer this in another thread a few weeks ago, but I'll answer here as well. We don't have any updates to share at the moment regarding the re-architecture. However, when the team has more concrete info to share, we will. As you may know, this is a delicate process that takes time to make sure we get this right. So while we don't have any updates now, we hope to share more in the future.

But we are passing on that players are asking for updates around the re-architecture.

Essentially that is all Zenimax will be saying until they reach a point they feel they are getting near the end of this process. The timeline of such a project is set in jello (project talk) since issues can come up that change the completion target.

I hope that when it is complete, the game will be in good shape for years to come. 🤞

@LarsS that comment basically says they will give us a probable timeline when they feel they are at a point they can give us a reasonable projection of a probable timeline. Zenimax is very consistent about not commenting on anything until they are ready to comment on it. Remember they spoke about Spell Crafting back in 2014 and see what happened with that.

blktauna · November 2022

Yes and I notice there is no spell crafting to this day.

Jaraal · November 2022

Code restructuring update should be here right after the U35 Q&A update….. so any time now.

Amottica · November 2022

Jaraal wrote: »

Code restructuring update should be here right after the U35 Q&A update….. so any time now.

This. I think we all expect that if it is not here by the EOY, we should see it early next year or an update explaining a delay.

With that, I think Rich or Matt do an EOY statement on the game, which would likely include information on this.

SkaraMinoc · November 2022

My guess is late 2024 at the earliest, or never at all.

Luede · November 2022

you really should not put any hopes into the code redesign, you can only be disappointed

Hotdog_23 · November 2022

Don’t expect any real update until we get our annual letter from Matt Firor in his Studio Director’s letter Retrospective for 2022 when it’s published sometime in December this year. If we get it, then.

Stay safe

Lebkuchen · November 2022

You will hear a lot of different infos and opinions, but the quintessence will always be: "Someone is working on something. And after further testing there will be things that will have to be adressed sometime in the future. That is something they really want to do, but there is no ETA on that right now."

edward_frigidhands · November 2022

Luede wrote: »

you really should not put any hopes into the code redesign, you can only be disappointed

Do you really feel that they would mislead people this way about something so important?

Luede · November 2022

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

you really should not put any hopes into the code redesign, you can only be disappointed

Do you really feel that they would mislead people this way about something so important?

when I look at the various performance tests and optimizations of the last few years, they have been misleading the players for years.

LarsS · November 2022

Amottica wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin commented on this just a few weeks ago, which was a repeat of what they said just a few weeks before that. I will provide it here.

I did answer this in another thread a few weeks ago, but I'll answer here as well. We don't have any updates to share at the moment regarding the re-architecture. However, when the team has more concrete info to share, we will. As you may know, this is a delicate process that takes time to make sure we get this right. So while we don't have any updates now, we hope to share more in the future.

But we are passing on that players are asking for updates around the re-architecture.

Essentially that is all Zenimax will be saying until they reach a point they feel they are getting near the end of this process. The timeline of such a project is set in jello (project talk) since issues can come up that change the completion target.

I hope that when it is complete, the game will be in good shape for years to come. 🤞

@LarsS that comment basically says they will give us a probable timeline when they feel they are at a point they can give us a reasonable projection of a probable timeline. Zenimax is very consistent about not commenting on anything until they are ready to comment on it. Remember they spoke about Spell Crafting back in 2014 and see what happened with that.

It's decades since I did any coding projects. What I do know thought is that if you want to keep your customers you need to inform them about the status of their product. Thus in the case of the server code rewrite, which is very important for the survivial of the game, you must show your customers that you do all you can to finish the project. I am well aware that there may be setbacks and most customers understand that. The present policy thought of giving no progress information, may lead to people leaving the game because they don't think ZOS can or want to do the work.

ProudMary · November 2022

The silence on this issue is deafening. And the quality control on the last three updates leaves a lot to be desired and does not instill any confidence in the ability of ZOS to competently achieve their stated goals on this topic.

rexagamemnon · November 2022

So this thread was posted yesterday on the USMC birthday, happy birthday fellow U.S Marines. Well wishes and brotherly love to the Marines of other countries as well! Also today is Veterans day in America, so happy Veterans day to all the fellow Military/Uniform Service Veterans as well as Happy American Veterans Day to our Allies around the world!

On to the thread subject at hand,
I am very much looking forward to some more communication about this. I understand the problems they have communicated about the servers. Im not a computer software/hardware expert of any kind, i have a hard enough time with basic PC operating beyond microsoft office suites. So i will take most of what the staff at ZOS says in regards to the servers at face Value.

Oakenaxe · November 2022

Jaraal wrote: »

Code restructuring update should be here right after the U35 Q&A update….. so any time now.

Amottica · November 2022

LarsS wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin commented on this just a few weeks ago, which was a repeat of what they said just a few weeks before that. I will provide it here.

I did answer this in another thread a few weeks ago, but I'll answer here as well. We don't have any updates to share at the moment regarding the re-architecture. However, when the team has more concrete info to share, we will. As you may know, this is a delicate process that takes time to make sure we get this right. So while we don't have any updates now, we hope to share more in the future.

But we are passing on that players are asking for updates around the re-architecture.

Essentially that is all Zenimax will be saying until they reach a point they feel they are getting near the end of this process. The timeline of such a project is set in jello (project talk) since issues can come up that change the completion target.

I hope that when it is complete, the game will be in good shape for years to come. 🤞

@LarsS that comment basically says they will give us a probable timeline when they feel they are at a point they can give us a reasonable projection of a probable timeline. Zenimax is very consistent about not commenting on anything until they are ready to comment on it. Remember they spoke about Spell Crafting back in 2014 and see what happened with that.

It's decades since I did any coding projects. What I do know thought is that if you want to keep your customers you need to inform them about the status of their product. Thus in the case of the server code rewrite, which is very important for the survivial of the game, you must show your customers that you do all you can to finish the project. I am well aware that there may be setbacks and most customers understand that. The present policy thought of giving no progress information, may lead to people leaving the game because they don't think ZOS can or want to do the work.

@LarsS

Exactly and they have. I not only provided the quote of their comment updating us but also a link to it.

They surprised me recently because they have replied to two different threads in the past couple of weeks asking for an update. That is more than I would expect since companies understandably refrain from repeating themselves over and over and over again. So they have clearly and undeniably shown their customers they are working on the project.

Oh, and as I noted above, the next new update is probably going to be in the year-end announcement Matt usually makes unless they finish the project sooner.

Regards

Lebkuchen · November 2022

Amottica wrote: »

[...] That is more than I would expect since companies understandably refrain from repeating themselves over and over and over again. So they have clearly and undeniably shown their customers they are working on the project. [...]

1 announcement, 1"update" and maybe a hand full of answers with no new info in a whole year is not exactly "repeating ... over and over and over again"

A year can be long if you are waiting for something broken to be fixed. Almost absolute radiosilence and no real info is not very reassuring. Especially when similar announcements did not end up improving anything. "Working on it, no ETA" just isn't enough for most people i have met in this game. They could not stand the performance issues and bugs anymore and left because of it. Some of them keep asking "did they fix it? can i come back?", but i always have to say "no, sorry". And that's a shame. Because the game has so much potential, and does not deserve to be held back by some easy to fix technical problems.

Amottica · November 2022

Lebkuchen wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

[...] That is more than I would expect since companies understandably refrain from repeating themselves over and over and over again. So they have clearly and undeniably shown their customers they are working on the project. [...]

1 announcement, 1"update" and maybe a hand full of answers with no new info in a whole year is not exactly "repeating ... over and over and over again" A year can be long if you are waiting for something broken to be fixed. Almost absolute radiosilence and no real info is not very reassuring. Especially when similar announcements did not end up improving anything. "Working on it, no ETA" just isn't enough for most people i have met in this game. They could not stand the performance issues and bugs anymore and left because of it. Some of them keep asking "did they fix it? can i come back?", but i always have to say "no, sorry". And that's a shame. Because the game has so much potential, and does not deserve to be held back by some easy to fix technical problems.

Weekly updates, which is what is being asked for, or even monthly updates are too frequent to be of value.

Again, the next update will be in December.

React · November 2022

Since my thread was locked and we were told to move our discussion to this thread, here is what I have to say regarding the code rewrite. Please note that this is not me attempting to "spam" the forums, I am doing exactly as we were instructed to do just now by @zos_psiion in https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/621657/creative-director-message-regarding-u36-disaster-we-want-to-hear-about-the-code-rewrite#latest, and moving my discussion to this thread.

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror

It has officially been 10 months since the "January PVP update" post regarding the state of the game. In this post we were promised that zenimax would undertake a massive project to rewrite the base code of the game, that would allow them to actually make changes to the combat system and "fix" the performance problems that have plagued us for years. This was estimated to take "most of 2022". It is November, and the only comment we have received on this was from @ZOS_Kevin one month ago, essentially telling us that the development team did not have an update to share as of yet.

We want to know the progress that has been made on this project. We want to hear, from the developers or from our creative lead, where the project is at and when the projected completion date is.

Firesong was such an insanely minor patch compared to most eso patches - there were almost no changes made to combat, and very little content added to the game. Despite that, this launch was seemingly one of the most catastrophic in history. Siege breaking and making cyrodiil unplayable, dragonknight standard allowing 500k+ DPS, budding seeds healing exponentially, block bugging out in MULTIPLE ways as a result of a minor bugfix, and probably the most crash-laden patch we have seen to date.

These issues are evidence that the code rewrite is absolutely necessary.

I know I'm beating a dead horse with this section of this post, but PVP needs representation somewhere and this needs to be mentioned. We were told there would be zero PVP content added to the game while this project was underway, and by the time the Q1 2023 patch releases it will have been four years since our last PVP content came out in the form of one single BG map. This is so beyond unacceptable. We are in arguably one of the worst PVP meta we have had in years, and coupled with the lack of content on the horizon, the population is rapidly dying. Even on PC NA where the performance improved significantly with our server improvement, we are seeing some of the lowest populations we've ever seen. Amidst all this, zenimax made the decision to cancel the imperial city event, one of the only 3 PVP events we get yearly.

Almost every PVP player that I know has either quit, or is at their wits end with the state of the game. We need updates on this project, and we need to know what 2023 holds for PVP so we can decide where to go from here. We are customers and loyal supporters of your game, and we deserve better than we have been given.

LordxSaura · November 2022

People who love to pvp in ESO, loves the game. For years, with ups and downs, they constantly played and support the game no matter what. I have never seen an any other mmo where the pvp had this many performance issues for exceeding amount of time and population still stuck around this patiently for years. PVP`rs love this game so much that they have been still supporting and playing the game hoping for the better.

But sadly those days are coming to an end. PVP population became alarmingly low and game is bleeding players. Even the most passionate, biggest lovers of the game starting to quit.

However I dont think its too late yet..

I think clear communication with the pvp community would go a long way. Mainly, people started quitting because they feel super neglected and not seen in most cases.

Like React said, not having any communication about something that was initially promised can just be the final nail in the coffin.

We are not sure what is the future in ESO pvp is going to look like, but if there is one thing about MMOs, people will stop investing into something that does not promise any kind of future. Not communicating about the code rewrite which is directly related to the future of the game might be final nail in the coffin for most people.

Lets help each other, lets communicate, lets work for the common goals that we all want.

brylars · November 2022

They are needing to do this and develop their new game, Starfield. Which one do you think is going to be the priority now? The tech industry is having labor issues and MMOs are struggling to keep players because they are all doing the same thing, the same mistakes.

I figured we are at the "take it or leave it stage" of this relationship. Personally, I am going to "take it." I have too much money, time, and friendships invested in the game to leave it now. I will probably stay till they flip the switch.

Destai · November 2022

Additional feedback posted here.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/621657/creative-director-message-regarding-u36-disaster-we-want-to-hear-about-the-code-rewrite#latest

Auldwulfe · November 2022

You know, we might be seeing some of the work being done - we had a number of glitches with U36, which didn't have a huge list of public changes, and seems to have had a LOT more bugs, than issues listed as being updated.

It's not going to be a fast process, nor an entirely smooth one, and definitely not going to always be perfect and clean ......
I would hope for more information, but as others have noted, it's pretty likely there are huge numbers of NDA's involved..... so hopefully it's in process.

Auldwulfe

React · November 2022

Auldwulfe wrote: »

You know, we might be seeing some of the work being done - we had a number of glitches with U36, which didn't have a huge list of public changes, and seems to have had a LOT more bugs, than issues listed as being updated.

It's not going to be a fast process, nor an entirely smooth one, and definitely not going to always be perfect and clean ......
I would hope for more information, but as others have noted, it's pretty likely there are huge numbers of NDA's involved..... so hopefully it's in process.

Auldwulfe

I don't think they would implement something like this without advising us that they intended to do so. They did say in their January post that they would "run tests on the PTS as soon as they are able".

Nyxenwhite · November 2022

I think that it’s come to a critical point where ZOS needs be more communicative with their playerbase - but most importantly listen to their community.
Let me preface that the countless proposed ideas, fixes, and vocalized/written frustrations are because players care about the game, not because they “want to whine and cry”.

Your top content creators are releasing videos on how bad the state of the game is. Many have even brainstormed great videos on “how to make eso better”. It baffles me from a business standpoint why you wouldn’t want try to give your audience what they want.
Your top players are frustrated, leaving, or have left. (You know, the ones that help out new players and teach them how to properly play, invite them to their guilds and discords, eventually turning them into paying eso+ subscribers). ESO is critically hemorrhaging players from all aspects of the game. We know this, and you know this. Yet, we hang on in dwindling hope that things will change.

ESO is a diamond of a game, and it is blatantly being treated as a common rock. Your playerbase WANTS the game to succeed. The action based combat and PVP is like no other. Why not have one of the greatest PVE and PVP games of all time?

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror
All we are asking for is regular updates - if there’s NDAs, simply state it out and we will understand. Tell us that it’ll have to wait after servers are up, or about how complicated and long the project is - believe it or not it’s actually interesting to us.

Please acknowledge us before we just, give up.
Right now it feels like you guys gave up on us.

gariondavey · November 2022

React wrote: »

Since my thread was locked and we were told to move our discussion to this thread, here is what I have to say regarding the code rewrite. Please note that this is not me attempting to "spam" the forums, I am doing exactly as we were instructed to do just now by @zos_psiion in https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/621657/creative-director-message-regarding-u36-disaster-we-want-to-hear-about-the-code-rewrite#latest, and moving my discussion to this thread.

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror

It has officially been 10 months since the "January PVP update" post regarding the state of the game. In this post we were promised that zenimax would undertake a massive project to rewrite the base code of the game, that would allow them to actually make changes to the combat system and "fix" the performance problems that have plagued us for years. This was estimated to take "most of 2022". It is November, and the only comment we have received on this was from @ZOS_Kevin one month ago, essentially telling us that the development team did not have an update to share as of yet.

We want to know the progress that has been made on this project. We want to hear, from the developers or from our creative lead, where the project is at and when the projected completion date is.

Firesong was such an insanely minor patch compared to most eso patches - there were almost no changes made to combat, and very little content added to the game. Despite that, this launch was seemingly one of the most catastrophic in history. Siege breaking and making cyrodiil unplayable, dragonknight standard allowing 500k+ DPS, budding seeds healing exponentially, block bugging out in MULTIPLE ways as a result of a minor bugfix, and probably the most crash-laden patch we have seen to date.

These issues are evidence that the code rewrite is absolutely necessary.

I know I'm beating a dead horse with this section of this post, but PVP needs representation somewhere and this needs to be mentioned. We were told there would be zero PVP content added to the game while this project was underway, and by the time the Q1 2023 patch releases it will have been four years since our last PVP content came out in the form of one single BG map. This is so beyond unacceptable. We are in arguably one of the worst PVP meta we have had in years, and coupled with the lack of content on the horizon, the population is rapidly dying. Even on PC NA where the performance improved significantly with our server improvement, we are seeing some of the lowest populations we've ever seen. Amidst all this, zenimax made the decision to cancel the imperial city event, one of the only 3 PVP events we get yearly.

Almost every PVP player that I know has either quit, or is at their wits end with the state of the game. We need updates on this project, and we need to know what 2023 holds for PVP so we can decide where to go from here. We are customers and loyal supporters of your game, and we deserve better than we have been given.

Amen brother

gariondavey · November 2022

Nyxenwhite wrote: »

I think that it’s come to a critical point where ZOS needs be more communicative with their playerbase - but most importantly listen to their community.
Let me preface that the countless proposed ideas, fixes, and vocalized/written frustrations are because players care about the game, not because they “want to whine and cry”.

Your top content creators are releasing videos on how bad the state of the game is. Many have even brainstormed great videos on “how to make eso better”. It baffles me from a business standpoint why you wouldn’t want try to give your audience what they want.
Your top players are frustrated, leaving, or have left. (You know, the ones that help out new players and teach them how to properly play, invite them to their guilds and discords, eventually turning them into paying eso+ subscribers). ESO is critically hemorrhaging players from all aspects of the game. We know this, and you know this. Yet, we hang on in dwindling hope that things will change.

ESO is a diamond of a game, and it is blatantly being treated as a common rock. Your playerbase WANTS the game to succeed. The action based combat and PVP is like no other. Why not have one of the greatest PVE and PVP games of all time?

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror
All we are asking for is regular updates - if there’s NDAs, simply state it out and we will understand. Tell us that it’ll have to wait after servers are up, or about how complicated and long the project is - believe it or not it’s actually interesting to us.

Please acknowledge us before we just, give up.
Right now it feels like you guys gave up on us.

Rich, Matt, please, help us out.

Amottica · November 2022

Lebkuchen wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

[...] That is more than I would expect since companies understandably refrain from repeating themselves over and over and over again. So they have clearly and undeniably shown their customers they are working on the project. [...]

1 announcement, 1"update" and maybe a hand full of answers with no new info in a whole year is not exactly "repeating ... over and over and over again"

@Lebkuchen

If you look at my quote Kevin repeated what they said just a few weeks prior which was repeating what the devs said not long before that and stated there was nothing new to report. That is the definition of repeating themself over and over again.

Jaimeh · November 2022

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

you really should not put any hopes into the code redesign, you can only be disappointed

Do you really feel that they would mislead people this way about something so important?

I mean, the year of performance was anything but...