Please stop putting leads behind treasure maps or at least give us a way to farm them

HappyDan · November 2022

I'm pretty sure this isn't the first post, ever since they put mytic leads (for motifs and now a lead for the skin) maps drop anywhere in the game there is no dedicated loot sources, there are so many maps overall the odds of find a map for the new zone is really like find a treasure this just creates a map cartel, look at prices now 1 mil per map (what in tarnation), and that's just at a chance for a lead this is ridiculous time gating leads into treasure maps is just frustrating and not immersive, at least give us a way to farm those maps. I mean I don't want to wait for 6-8 months for the market to relax to buy that map that zone will be dead by then.

Kappachi · November 2022

It won't be dead because this encourages people to revisit content when you do find that map 6-8 months from now. No map in this game is dead, ZOS knows what they're doing and I hope they continue to keep every zone populated with their decisions, even the first DLC zones still have people always in them doing content.

Carcamongus · November 2022

HappyDan wrote: »

I'm pretty sure this isn't the first post, ever since they put mytic leads (for motifs and now a lead for the skin) maps drop anywhere in the game there is no dedicated loot sources, there are so many maps overall the odds of find a map for the new zone is really like find a treasure this just creates a map cartel, look at prices now 1 mil per map (what in tarnation), and that's just at a chance for a lead this is ridiculous time gating leads into treasure maps is just frustrating and not immersive, at least give us a way to farm those maps. I mean I don't want to wait for 6-8 months for the market to relax to buy that map that zone will be dead by then.

I believe you're mistaken: yesterday someone in Galen explained the maps went for TWO million.

Remember picking water plants in Shadowfen? Remember fighting for lockboxes in Murkmire? Now rejoice as the gauntlet becomes even worse! It's been about a year since the Deadlands went online and I've gotten that zone's maps 18 times (4 of which yielded motif leads). I loot chests and troves a lot and make sure to grab the daily Dragonguard freebies every day, yet only 18 maps were found.

In sum, awful ways to acquire leads aren't going away.

Necrotech_Master · November 2022

i probably wouldnt mind the leads in treasure maps if the chances to get them were significantly higher

Hapexamendios · November 2022

Treasure chest leads are some of the worst in the game. You have to deal with RNG in getting the map or buying at expensive prices. Then when you have the map you have to deal with RNG in getting the lead. Not a good system imo.

Jaimeh · November 2022

Oh gosh did they really put a lead behind a treasure map?? And here I thought the lead behind jewellery surveys was a bad design... There has been so much outcry about mythic leads and ZOS decides to put a lead behind an extra RNG step

Carcamongus · November 2022

All the maps have the same odds of dropping. However, Galen has two and the entire game (unless I got the count wrong) has 186. That means 1,075% chance of getting either of that zone's maps. As far as I know, the leads aren't guaranteed, so there's another, unknown, percentage to take into consideration. This is what the devs have given us.

Kappachi · November 2022

Carcamongus wrote: »

HappyDan wrote: »

I'm pretty sure this isn't the first post, ever since they put mytic leads (for motifs and now a lead for the skin) maps drop anywhere in the game there is no dedicated loot sources, there are so many maps overall the odds of find a map for the new zone is really like find a treasure this just creates a map cartel, look at prices now 1 mil per map (what in tarnation), and that's just at a chance for a lead this is ridiculous time gating leads into treasure maps is just frustrating and not immersive, at least give us a way to farm those maps. I mean I don't want to wait for 6-8 months for the market to relax to buy that map that zone will be dead by then.

I believe you're mistaken: yesterday someone in Galen explained the maps went for TWO million.

Remember picking water plants in Shadowfen? Remember fighting for lockboxes in Murkmire? Now rejoice as the gauntlet becomes even worse! It's been about a year since the Deadlands went online and I've gotten that zone's maps 18 times (4 of which yielded motif leads). I loot chests and troves a lot and make sure to grab the daily Dragonguard freebies every day, yet only 18 maps were found.

In sum, awful ways to acquire leads aren't going away.

Probably me, the demand outweighs the supply and I was trying to warn people of selling their maps for 800k since 1.5-2m was their market value at that time and I didn't want them to lose out on a huge chunk of change; I like these kinds of things though since they provide a motivation to return to the zone once maps are cheaper or if you find one yourself you make some major profit.

Arunei · November 2022

Kappachi wrote: »

Carcamongus wrote: »

HappyDan wrote: »

I'm pretty sure this isn't the first post, ever since they put mytic leads (for motifs and now a lead for the skin) maps drop anywhere in the game there is no dedicated loot sources, there are so many maps overall the odds of find a map for the new zone is really like find a treasure this just creates a map cartel, look at prices now 1 mil per map (what in tarnation), and that's just at a chance for a lead this is ridiculous time gating leads into treasure maps is just frustrating and not immersive, at least give us a way to farm those maps. I mean I don't want to wait for 6-8 months for the market to relax to buy that map that zone will be dead by then.

I believe you're mistaken: yesterday someone in Galen explained the maps went for TWO million.

Remember picking water plants in Shadowfen? Remember fighting for lockboxes in Murkmire? Now rejoice as the gauntlet becomes even worse! It's been about a year since the Deadlands went online and I've gotten that zone's maps 18 times (4 of which yielded motif leads). I loot chests and troves a lot and make sure to grab the daily Dragonguard freebies every day, yet only 18 maps were found.

In sum, awful ways to acquire leads aren't going away.

Probably me, the demand outweighs the supply and I was trying to warn people of selling their maps for 800k since 1.5-2m was their market value at that time and I didn't want them to lose out on a huge chunk of change; I like these kinds of things though since they provide a motivation to return to the zone once maps are cheaper or if you find one yourself you make some major profit.

That doesn't really work like that. For one, how is it good for the game's health for a zone to die out for months? Because yes, zones do die. Treasure maps don't encourage the kind of return to a map that's actually meaningful. People aren't coming back to do actual content, they're coming back for all of five seconds before moving on, regardless of whether they were lucky or not.

For another, it's bad for the long-term health because this continued insistence on putting Leads behind several layers of RNG frustrates more and more people the longer it goes on. More people being frustrated more often means fewer people engaging in that content for any considerable amount of time.

This is just a bad business model, and you'd think they'd learned their lesson after the Shadowfen water node debacle about making Leads too rare and hard to obtain.

SeaGtGruff · November 2022

We're talking about a lead for a skin? If that's correct, is it some kind of BIS/META skin that gives you legendary/mythical superpowers? What is it about this skin that has so many players so obsessed with it?

Necrotech_Master · November 2022

Jaimeh wrote: »

Oh gosh did they really put a lead behind a treasure map?? And here I thought the lead behind jewellery surveys was a bad design... There has been so much outcry about mythic leads and ZOS decides to put a lead behind an extra RNG step

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

We're talking about a lead for a skin? If that's correct, is it some kind of BIS/META skin that gives you legendary/mythical superpowers? What is it about this skin that has so many players so obsessed with it?

in galen there is the lead for the skin, and a lead for the "eldertide shoulders" collectible (not sure if this is an outfit style or a cosmetic unlock)

then you got to account for the many zones with motifs from treasure map chests also at a low drop rate (theres the 3 original ancestral motifs from base game zones, then they have been adding ancestral motifs for almost every chapter and dlc zone since (skyrim, the reach, blackwood, deadlands, high isle)

technically speaking there are a huge amount of leads behind treasure maps lol

im still missing 4 of the original motif leads codex entries because they just wont drop, since theres the RNG for the map, RNG for the lead, RNG for a lead im looking for, its just a mess

CGPsaint · November 2022

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

im still missing 4 of the original motif leads codex entries because they just wont drop, since theres the RNG for the map, RNG for the lead, RNG for a lead im looking for, its just a mess

I've completed all of the Ancestral motifs from leads except for the Daedric style which from what I can tell has the absolute most abysmal drop rate of any of the Ancestral leads. At this point I'm seeing in excess of 10 maps for each lead that I get, and of the 7 leads that I have gotten, 3 have been gloves, so there's that. At this point I'm over it and will not be engaging with any leads that require treasure maps going forward. Zenimax clearly doesn't value or respect player's time, because if they did they would listen to all of the negative feedback and make adjustments.

Necrotech_Master · November 2022

CGPsaint wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

im still missing 4 of the original motif leads codex entries because they just wont drop, since theres the RNG for the map, RNG for the lead, RNG for a lead im looking for, its just a mess

I've completed all of the Ancestral motifs from leads except for the Daedric style which from what I can tell has the absolute most abysmal drop rate of any of the Ancestral leads. At this point I'm seeing in excess of 10 maps for each lead that I get, and of the 7 leads that I have gotten, 3 have been gloves, so there's that. At this point I'm over it and will not be engaging with any leads that require treasure maps going forward. Zenimax clearly doesn't value or respect player's time, because if they did they would listen to all of the negative feedback and make adjustments.

yeah i have not bothered actively farming them, if i get the right map, ill go try dig it up, if i get a lead then nice, if i dont its just annoying, but those treasure map leads are one of the few things i dont particularly care about getting all of the codex entries for

twev · November 2022

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i probably wouldnt mind the leads in treasure maps if the chances to get them were significantly higher

I have no intention of getting High Isle, and the fact that fully 33% of the active leads i have at any given time are gold High Isle leads isn't making me want to change my mind.
In fact, it's increasingly annoying me.

Kappachi · November 2022

Arunei wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

Carcamongus wrote: »

HappyDan wrote: »

I'm pretty sure this isn't the first post, ever since they put mytic leads (for motifs and now a lead for the skin) maps drop anywhere in the game there is no dedicated loot sources, there are so many maps overall the odds of find a map for the new zone is really like find a treasure this just creates a map cartel, look at prices now 1 mil per map (what in tarnation), and that's just at a chance for a lead this is ridiculous time gating leads into treasure maps is just frustrating and not immersive, at least give us a way to farm those maps. I mean I don't want to wait for 6-8 months for the market to relax to buy that map that zone will be dead by then.

I believe you're mistaken: yesterday someone in Galen explained the maps went for TWO million.

Remember picking water plants in Shadowfen? Remember fighting for lockboxes in Murkmire? Now rejoice as the gauntlet becomes even worse! It's been about a year since the Deadlands went online and I've gotten that zone's maps 18 times (4 of which yielded motif leads). I loot chests and troves a lot and make sure to grab the daily Dragonguard freebies every day, yet only 18 maps were found.

In sum, awful ways to acquire leads aren't going away.

Probably me, the demand outweighs the supply and I was trying to warn people of selling their maps for 800k since 1.5-2m was their market value at that time and I didn't want them to lose out on a huge chunk of change; I like these kinds of things though since they provide a motivation to return to the zone once maps are cheaper or if you find one yourself you make some major profit.

That doesn't really work like that. For one, how is it good for the game's health for a zone to die out for months? Because yes, zones do die. Treasure maps don't encourage the kind of return to a map that's actually meaningful. People aren't coming back to do actual content, they're coming back for all of five seconds before moving on, regardless of whether they were lucky or not.

For another, it's bad for the long-term health because this continued insistence on putting Leads behind several layers of RNG frustrates more and more people the longer it goes on. More people being frustrated more often means fewer people engaging in that content for any considerable amount of time.

This is just a bad business model, and you'd think they'd learned their lesson after the Shadowfen water node debacle about making Leads too rare and hard to obtain.

as a long time player, whenever i pick up a map or a scry, i stay in that location for a bit, do the dailies, make take on the dungeon/trial of that area and so forth before moving on. I see many people who do the same, or something similar, it all leads to the continued health of older zones and why people keep going back to old zones, because there's things to do and rewards to be had.

Necrotech_Master · November 2022

twev wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i probably wouldnt mind the leads in treasure maps if the chances to get them were significantly higher

I have no intention of getting High Isle, and the fact that fully 33% of the active leads i have at any given time are gold High Isle leads isn't making me want to change my mind.
In fact, it's increasingly annoying me.

i think thats a bit of a different issue than the leads in treasure maps

but i agree that "double locking" antiquities behind 2 chapters is probably not a good way to handle it (antiquity system itself locked behind greymoor, and then the dlc new leads need to be dug up in the dlc zone)

Kappachi · November 2022

I love the antiquities system and I own every DLC in the game because I love every zone the game has, every new dungeon DLC and so on... If you don't want to participate in certain content you don't have to, but the leads do drop from that source and if you ever do sub to ESO+ when High Isle is part of it or buy High Isle outright then you can remember like, Wayrest Sewers II final boss drops a Galen lead, or something like that.

Paulytnz · November 2022

So, we have a few issues here, it's not just that the leads are behind treasure maps. I will try to explain them briefly:

1 - Treasure maps for a while seemed not worth bothering with. But then came Antiquities which helped a bit because they put some furniture behind them, I think? As well as the leads. So, in this sense having some leads behind them is a good thing because it adds value in doing them (treasure maps) again (not just monetary), but then we move to my next point.

2 - Not ALL zones treasure maps have a chance at giving something nice or new. This is a BIG mistake. This seems to be the case with the older DLC zones. I don't think it's a matter of simply waiting for them to bring in new Ancestral Motives for these other zones either. They seem to be just leaving it as it is for now.

3 - It's only 1 zone now that is dropping the chance for the newer ancestral leads due to the fact that they are related to each new zone that comes with the new DLCs. I mean it does make sense but sometimes in games it's not always a good thing for things to make sense.

What I think they should/could do for now is to expand on the zones that give the leads for certain things. I would suggest leaving the base game zones alone since they already have all the original ancestral motives tied to them. Simply expand the chance to get these new ancestral motive leads as well as any others that are tied to a single zone Treasure Map to ALL DLC Zones Treasure Maps.

Doing this would not only increase the chances of getting the leads but it will also finally give some worth to those DLC zone treasure maps that are sorely needed. If they do finally get around to bringing in more ancestral motif or other leads/rewards for those zones they could simply just scale back on which of those DLC zones give the current leads we are talking about.
Example if they brought in a new ancestral Khajiit motif for the Elsweyr zones, they could remove the chances at getting the other motif leads for the 2 Elsweyr zones.

heng14rwb17_ESO · November 2022

Do not give up.
Patient and determination will be rewarded.

SeaGtGruff · November 2022

There sort of already are ways to farm treasure maps. You sometimes get them from treasure chests, and you can also get them from [I'm not going to say] rewards. If you know what I'm talking about, then I salute you!

Neither source is guaranteed, and both give random maps, but I did receive a map for Galen on both servers that way.