Lightning staffs fix suggestion !

SPR_of_HA_community · November 2022

With patch U35 HA builds were nerfed.

Players who play lightning staffs get more casual builds for HA in PVE and for PVP builds were nerfed.

Lightning staffs now are underperforming. You will not see a lot of exp players now use it. Because it just make less DPS than other weapons.

Even in same build and same rotation - damage will be 10% less on lightning staffs than on fire staffs.

It is bad, because lightning staffs are cool, they have very cool heavy attack, it looks much better for a lot of players than other weapons - this game force players to chouse for better numbers.

It is bad game balance.

I suggest to fix lightning stuffs HA and passive, to make all hits of HA be overtime damage. Or like it was before 3 overtime and last direct hit.

Increase number of HA hits on 1, like it was before - for the same time (even if summ DPS wil be the same as now from it for the same time).

It looked much better with 4 hits, it is not restoration staff, it feels worse than before with only 3 hits. 4 hits looks better and more complex attack.

The same time change passive that buff AOE damage of attacks with lightnibg staffs to buff over time damage (DOTs).

All builds use dots. Most of them are single target (so fire staff already buff them).

Some ground AOEs are DOTs too, so even if lightning staff lose some DPS on less effective LAs and spammable - it can be more playable on lightning HA and DOTs, so lose of damage will not be that much compare to as example fire stuffs and such weapon can be playable !

Now lightning staffs are underperforming.

It is one of the most beautiful weapons - because of underperforming passives and nerf of good lightning staff sets it is hard to use.

Lightning staffs deserves better passives and better place as DPS weapon, than it has now.

Even if it will do 2% less damage then fire staffs it would be OK, but now - it is too underperforming !

Buff lightning staffs pls !!!

AcadianPaladin · November 2022

I like the lightning staff as an AoE weapon and think the passives should simply lean into this more by buffing the AoE passive. I've no problem if a fire staff outperforms on a single target build but would like to see a lightning staff overperform on an AoE build. I agree that a big draw for me to the lightning staff is the continuous heavy attack instead of the wind up and wait attack of a fire staff. Therefore I lean into that and make AoE builds - and I quite like them. But that lightning staff passive certainly could use a buff.

SPR_of_HA_community · November 2022

The same time a lot of AOE damage is DOT like - it is ground AOE or has damage over time effect.

A lot of skills even have hints in it - it is AOE but it looks like it is more effective with fire weapon too as example. (It buffs with single target passive if I am correct)

The same time in current reality - on a lot of targets you do not need a lot of AOE damage. Because we have sets as example like dark convergence, plague breaker and etc.

So lightning staff will be underperforming if not buff single target damage.

In such way AOE ground skills and good single target dots will be buffed, so weapon can be usefull, if all famage over time will be buffed.

It will not overperform fire staff, but the same time would be good in single and AOE situations. And players do not always have a lot of AOE skills, so buffing AOE damage is not a good passive. But HA of lightning staff is good AOE, that player can use as good option even in not HA build, so such weapon would be really good in AOE situations.

I think it is a good option for this weapon.

It would be good too if plague breaker set delay would be shorten to 5-10 seconds from 20 seconds.

It is to big delay, that make this set bad on single target enemy's. And you do not have a lot of situations now, where you need such set. It is bad, because this set is really very cool too.

Paulytnz · November 2022

I think the Lightning staff is fine. In fact, I was testing it the other day vs a Fire staff and I found it did similar or more damage than the fire staff and the fire staff is supposed to have +12% more damage with one of the passive skills. Something weird was going on there.....

Also, for me with the lightning staff the true power comes from the fact it is almost instant damage and not a build up big hit like the others. How many times have you tried to heavy attack a boss or other creature with a Fire staff and never got to because every other joe did enough damage to it before you even scratched it? This is not an issue with the lightning staff and makes it a true beauty if you really like/need to "tag" monsters/bosses for credit/exp etc

Amottica · November 2022

For some reason I am thinking I have seen two other threads recently complaining about the same thing. Either this is hot topic or the same people are creating similar posts.

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Lightning staffs now are underperforming. You will not see a lot of exp players now use it. Because it just make less DPS than other weapons.

Since this quoted sentence is really the umbrella issue for this thread I will speak to this. There will always be one staff that outperforms the rest. It may be different in PvE vs PvP but often the same. Fire has always been on top except when a buff from lighting buffed overall DPS so much that everyone used it for that one buff. After that brief period of time fire staff became king again because it does more damage.

No matter what Zenimax does with the staves there is one fact that will never change. One staff will be used more than the rest because it performs better. Those experienced players use that weapon the most because of its performance and Zenimax cannot change that.

TaSheen · November 2022

Amottica wrote: »

For some reason I am thinking I have seen two other threads recently complaining about the same thing. Either this is hot topic or the same people are creating similar posts.

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Lightning staffs now are underperforming. You will not see a lot of exp players now use it. Because it just make less DPS than other weapons.

Since this quoted sentence is really the umbrella issue for this thread I will speak to this. There will always be one staff that outperforms the rest. It may be different in PvE vs PvP but often the same. Fire has always been on top except when a buff from lighting buffed overall DPS so much that everyone used it for that one buff. After that brief period of time fire staff became king again because it does more damage.

No matter what Zenimax does with the staves there is one fact that will never change. One staff will be used more than the rest because it performs better. Those experienced players use that weapon the most because of its performance and Zenimax cannot change that.

Oh.... WAY more than 2 threads. This person has posted - um - somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 threads in the last couple of weeks about the same non-issue.

FlopsyPrince · November 2022

I like the lightning staff because I don't have to have such precise focusing. I am either aimed the right place or I am not. Simple and clear.

I will probably keep using them regardless (except in my frost build), but knowing that a release claiming to even things out nerfed my preferred one is another bad sign. I am the very "not top" player they claimed to be helping.

Amottica · November 2022

TaSheen wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

For some reason I am thinking I have seen two other threads recently complaining about the same thing. Either this is hot topic or the same people are creating similar posts.

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Lightning staffs now are underperforming. You will not see a lot of exp players now use it. Because it just make less DPS than other weapons.

Since this quoted sentence is really the umbrella issue for this thread I will speak to this. There will always be one staff that outperforms the rest. It may be different in PvE vs PvP but often the same. Fire has always been on top except when a buff from lighting buffed overall DPS so much that everyone used it for that one buff. After that brief period of time fire staff became king again because it does more damage.

No matter what Zenimax does with the staves there is one fact that will never change. One staff will be used more than the rest because it performs better. Those experienced players use that weapon the most because of its performance and Zenimax cannot change that.

Oh.... WAY more than 2 threads. This person has posted - um - somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 threads in the last couple of weeks about the same non-issue.

Oh, so it is the same person.

boi_anachronism_ · November 2022

Amottica wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

For some reason I am thinking I have seen two other threads recently complaining about the same thing. Either this is hot topic or the same people are creating similar posts.

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Lightning staffs now are underperforming. You will not see a lot of exp players now use it. Because it just make less DPS than other weapons.

Since this quoted sentence is really the umbrella issue for this thread I will speak to this. There will always be one staff that outperforms the rest. It may be different in PvE vs PvP but often the same. Fire has always been on top except when a buff from lighting buffed overall DPS so much that everyone used it for that one buff. After that brief period of time fire staff became king again because it does more damage.

No matter what Zenimax does with the staves there is one fact that will never change. One staff will be used more than the rest because it performs better. Those experienced players use that weapon the most because of its performance and Zenimax cannot change that.

Oh.... WAY more than 2 threads. This person has posted - um - somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 threads in the last couple of weeks about the same non-issue.

Oh, so it is the same person.

Yes. It's multiple posts today and several on unrelated threads as well.

Dr_Con · November 2022

this is like saying that ice staff underperforms, or maces underperform, or swords underperform, or axes underperform.

all damage types got hit by u35 nerfs.

lightning staves are aoe and are a niche choice to do more damage to groups

fire staves are are not aoe and do more damage to single targets

you can enhance your lightning damage through sorc passives and the DOT damage through necro passives.

if you compare lightning HA builds to inferno HA builds on trial dummy you will do less damage with lightning. This is intentional. you should not be able to do more damage in AOEs than people can hit single targets for.

boi_anachronism_ · November 2022

Dr_Con wrote: »

this is like saying that ice staff underperforms, or maces underperform, or swords underperform, or axes underperform.

all damage types got hit by u35 nerfs.

lightning staves are aoe and are a niche choice to do more damage to groups

fire staves are are not aoe and do more damage to single targets

you can enhance your lightning damage through sorc passives and the DOT damage through necro passives.

if you compare lightning HA builds to inferno HA builds on trial dummy you will do less damage with lightning. This is intentional. you should not be able to do more damage in AOEs than people can hit single targets for.

I made this point exactly on the last post this person made. We DID have this at one point and it was massively op hence the original nerf. If you add up the damage done to each target it is overall more then inferno. Like maces a lot of people use in pvp because it provides a ton of penetration but no one uses them in trials because they get those pen buffs from their tanks, healers, sets ect. If you want to use it play with your build use a class that buffs it like Necro or sorc and run something with empower..

Necrotech_Master · November 2022

ive played with several people who use a lightning staff heavy attack build in vet trials that could parse upwards of 90k on the trial dummy

so clearly its fine, this build tends to work better on a sorc, but can still be useable on most any other class as well

if your talking about pvp, then you must have missed the meta with OP heavy attack builds 1 shotting people (or were one of those people and trying to bring it back), no thanks its in a good spot right now

Cazador · November 2022

Like I said in one of the previous posts made under the same topic, it makes sense that lightning staves do less damage as they have additional utility in hitting more targets. Ice staff does less as well but has a lot of utility. fire staff has the highest damage but no added utility. Any buff to lightning staves would make them dramatically overpowered compared to other destro staves.

Dr_Con · November 2022

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

this is like saying that ice staff underperforms, or maces underperform, or swords underperform, or axes underperform.

all damage types got hit by u35 nerfs.

lightning staves are aoe and are a niche choice to do more damage to groups

fire staves are are not aoe and do more damage to single targets

you can enhance your lightning damage through sorc passives and the DOT damage through necro passives.

if you compare lightning HA builds to inferno HA builds on trial dummy you will do less damage with lightning. This is intentional. you should not be able to do more damage in AOEs than people can hit single targets for.

I made this point exactly on the last post this person made. We DID have this at one point and it was massively op hence the original nerf. If you add up the damage done to each target it is overall more then inferno. Like maces a lot of people use in pvp because it provides a ton of penetration but no one uses them in trials because they get those pen buffs from their tanks, healers, sets ect. If you want to use it play with your build use a class that buffs it like Necro or sorc and run something with empower..

I really don't get what the OP is complaining about at this point, I find lightning staves easier to solo arena content at both normal and veteran levels with. It's great for trash clears. When I'm in a trial I much prefer inferno staff on single targets though.

Anyone using lightning staff heavy attacks in PVP is doing it wrong. It's like using resto attack heavy attacks- if you're doing it for resources that's one thing, but if you're doing it to do damage that's the worst possible thing you can do.

Different tools for different jobs.

I would like to see anyone complain about parse numbers on lightning staff if they put a few skeleton dummies around the arena boss dummy too.

Didgerion · November 2022

Dr_Con wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

this is like saying that ice staff underperforms, or maces underperform, or swords underperform, or axes underperform.

all damage types got hit by u35 nerfs.

lightning staves are aoe and are a niche choice to do more damage to groups

fire staves are are not aoe and do more damage to single targets

you can enhance your lightning damage through sorc passives and the DOT damage through necro passives.

if you compare lightning HA builds to inferno HA builds on trial dummy you will do less damage with lightning. This is intentional. you should not be able to do more damage in AOEs than people can hit single targets for.

I made this point exactly on the last post this person made. We DID have this at one point and it was massively op hence the original nerf. If you add up the damage done to each target it is overall more then inferno. Like maces a lot of people use in pvp because it provides a ton of penetration but no one uses them in trials because they get those pen buffs from their tanks, healers, sets ect. If you want to use it play with your build use a class that buffs it like Necro or sorc and run something with empower..

I really don't get what the OP is complaining about at this point, I find lightning staves easier to solo arena content at both normal and veteran levels with. It's great for trash clears. When I'm in a trial I much prefer inferno staff on single targets though.

Anyone using lightning staff heavy attacks in PVP is doing it wrong. It's like using resto attack heavy attacks- if you're doing it for resources that's one thing, but if you're doing it to do damage that's the worst possible thing you can do.

Different tools for different jobs.

I would like to see anyone complain about parse numbers on lightning staff if they put a few skeleton dummies around the arena boss dummy too.

And what DPS job is that to purely AOE or to purely single target?

DPS is a mix of both and how ZOS is balancing staff weapons doesn't make any sense.
Staff weapons should reflect 2H weapon, one should buff crit damage, another one should give more penetration and the third one should give more weapon damage.

Cadbury · November 2022

These endless requests for buffs and nerfs...

At the end of the day, ZOS is gonna do whatever it wants. This pursuit of "Balance" is just an endless cycle.

boi_anachronism_ · November 2022

Didgerion wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

this is like saying that ice staff underperforms, or maces underperform, or swords underperform, or axes underperform.

all damage types got hit by u35 nerfs.

lightning staves are aoe and are a niche choice to do more damage to groups

fire staves are are not aoe and do more damage to single targets

you can enhance your lightning damage through sorc passives and the DOT damage through necro passives.

if you compare lightning HA builds to inferno HA builds on trial dummy you will do less damage with lightning. This is intentional. you should not be able to do more damage in AOEs than people can hit single targets for.

I made this point exactly on the last post this person made. We DID have this at one point and it was massively op hence the original nerf. If you add up the damage done to each target it is overall more then inferno. Like maces a lot of people use in pvp because it provides a ton of penetration but no one uses them in trials because they get those pen buffs from their tanks, healers, sets ect. If you want to use it play with your build use a class that buffs it like Necro or sorc and run something with empower..

I really don't get what the OP is complaining about at this point, I find lightning staves easier to solo arena content at both normal and veteran levels with. It's great for trash clears. When I'm in a trial I much prefer inferno staff on single targets though.

Anyone using lightning staff heavy attacks in PVP is doing it wrong. It's like using resto attack heavy attacks- if you're doing it for resources that's one thing, but if you're doing it to do damage that's the worst possible thing you can do.

Different tools for different jobs.

I would like to see anyone complain about parse numbers on lightning staff if they put a few skeleton dummies around the arena boss dummy too.

And what DPS job is that to purely AOE or to purely single target?

DPS is a mix of both and how ZOS is balancing staff weapons doesn't make any sense.
Staff weapons should reflect 2H weapon, one should buff crit damage, another one should give more penetration and the third one should give more weapon damage.

Different tools for different jobs. You don't use staffs in the same situations as melee and you don't have to be in range of melee attacks either. Most crit buffs come from melee which completely makes sense. It's pure risk/reward. Why should range attacks have the same buffs as melee in VAS for example? They can sit at range and be mostly out of danger where as melee has to right on top of olms. If tank dies or loses agro for a second they are toast. And yeah some dps shine in single target and some in trash packs. NB is not as useful in a trash pack situation in SS compared to a templar for example. Same with weapons. You DO want to run an AOE trash mob DPS build for arenas and some folks swap out weapons in parts of trials for this reason too. I don't understand why you would want to homogenize weapons anyway. There is already too much of that. Staffs in general have more utility than melee thanks to their ranged interrupt which melee has to bash and hope they don't get smoked. You have to look at the whole picture not just one or 2 facets. It's not just about passives and damage.

Heartrage · November 2022

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I like the lightning staff as an AoE weapon and think the passives should simply lean into this more by buffing the AoE passive. I've no problem if a fire staff outperforms on a single target build but would like to see a lightning staff overperform on an AoE build. I agree that a big draw for me to the lightning staff is the continuous heavy attack instead of the wind up and wait attack of a fire staff. Therefore I lean into that and make AoE builds - and I quite like them. But that lightning staff passive certainly could use a buff.

This. Different weapons should have different uses and strengths. Lightning staves being the best aoe damage dealers while inferno staves are better on single targets should be the way to go. I would also extend this to martial weapons which should have their niche rather than be chosen based on the stat boost you need.

I think they should also account this when making content. Bosses that require a lot of strong aoe would make this lightning staves focus on aoe much more valuable.

Dr_Con · November 2022

Didgerion wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

this is like saying that ice staff underperforms, or maces underperform, or swords underperform, or axes underperform.

all damage types got hit by u35 nerfs.

lightning staves are aoe and are a niche choice to do more damage to groups

fire staves are are not aoe and do more damage to single targets

you can enhance your lightning damage through sorc passives and the DOT damage through necro passives.

if you compare lightning HA builds to inferno HA builds on trial dummy you will do less damage with lightning. This is intentional. you should not be able to do more damage in AOEs than people can hit single targets for.

I made this point exactly on the last post this person made. We DID have this at one point and it was massively op hence the original nerf. If you add up the damage done to each target it is overall more then inferno. Like maces a lot of people use in pvp because it provides a ton of penetration but no one uses them in trials because they get those pen buffs from their tanks, healers, sets ect. If you want to use it play with your build use a class that buffs it like Necro or sorc and run something with empower..

I really don't get what the OP is complaining about at this point, I find lightning staves easier to solo arena content at both normal and veteran levels with. It's great for trash clears. When I'm in a trial I much prefer inferno staff on single targets though.

Anyone using lightning staff heavy attacks in PVP is doing it wrong. It's like using resto attack heavy attacks- if you're doing it for resources that's one thing, but if you're doing it to do damage that's the worst possible thing you can do.

Different tools for different jobs.

I would like to see anyone complain about parse numbers on lightning staff if they put a few skeleton dummies around the arena boss dummy too.

And what DPS job is that to purely AOE or to purely single target?

DPS is a mix of both and how ZOS is balancing staff weapons doesn't make any sense.
Staff weapons should reflect 2H weapon, one should buff crit damage, another one should give more penetration and the third one should give more weapon damage.

No one is stopping anyone from carrying around an inferno staff for boss fights, and a lightning staff for trash clearing fights, and swapping right before the boss fight.

I do this often with my sets and abilities mid-trial as a tank. You have trash clearing sets, and boss tanking sets.

If you aren't doing this already you're going to get left in the dust as others do it. Stick with 1 build and you'll be a jack of all trades, master of none. Know how to adapt, and you can master each situation individually.