Thoughts to assist with the PvP vs PvE Issue: Amplify

Mr_Stach · October 2022

So I've been juggling some different Ideas for a long time, mostly on Warden because that's what I have been trying to improve for a long time it seems, this post is related to but it's related to all classes and skills.

In U35 Zos retooled Empower to only apply to Monsters allowing for some interesting new ideas, but it only applied to melee attacks. But it opened the door for an Idea:

Amplify:
Increase Damage an ability does to Monsters by 20%

By adding this effect to a Skill, Zos could essentially buff a skill that is underperforming in PvE to allow it to hit the needed level of damage without making the ability completely broken in PvP.

For Example:

Northern Storm:
Twist a violent storm around you, dealing 1161 Frost Damage every 1 second for 8 seconds to enemies around you and reducing their Movement Speed by 40% and increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 300 for 30 seconds. You and nearby allies gain Major Protection, reducing your damage taken by 10%. You also gain Amplify, Increasing the Damage this Ability does to Monsters by 20%

With this buff it does not Blanket buff all of your abilities, but is a direct ability buff.

Anyway, just my thoughts, hopefully y'all like it. Just biding time while Zos is hopefully considering to remove Frost Staff from Piercing Cold and Winter's Revenge.

acastanza_ESO · October 2022

Congratulations! Welcome to the club of people who've spent about 100X more time thinking about how to balance PVE without unbalancing PVP than ZOS has.

But in all seriousness, this is actually a pretty good idea!

chessalavakia_ESO · October 2022

I think Battle Spirit level changes are better than item/buff level because it provides a more clear set of rules that you can easily access.

As for Sleet Storm and it's morphs they may or may not need minor adjustments due to the changes to Glacial Presence.

My very brief PTS testing had Permafrost running closer to Northern Storm than I expected when it came to DPS but, it's been months since I last used them on live so I'm not sure if my expectation was wrong or Glacial Presence was pumping it up significantly more.

Turtle_Bot · October 2022

I like this idea, especially since you can tack on similar buffs to any ability to give it a different functionality for each mode (something a lot of players have been talking about for a while now).

It might be easier to tie it to battle spirit since you can just have a generic condition on skills that checks for if battle spirit is active or not instead of making dozens of new buffs/debuffs etc.

Mr_Stach wrote: »

For Example:

Northern Storm:
Twist a violent storm around you, dealing 1161 Frost Damage every 1 second for 8 seconds to enemies around you and reducing their Movement Speed by 40% and increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 300 for 30 seconds. You and nearby allies gain Major Protection, reducing your damage taken by 10%. You also gain Amplify, Increasing the Damage this Ability does to Monsters by 20%

from your example it could be worded:
Northern Storm:
Twist a violent storm around you, dealing 1161 Frost Damage every 1 second for 8 seconds to enemies around you and reducing their Movement Speed by 40% and increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 300 for 30 seconds. You and nearby allies gain Major Protection, reducing your damage taken by 10%. If battle spirit is not active, this skill deals 20% additional damage to monsters.

or take the changes surprise attack went through in the U35 pts, where it was originally a guaranteed crit on every cast on a flanked enemy, they could have left that as the effect on the skill but added a condition to it: If battle spirit is active, the guaranteed crit only works once every 4 casts on a flanked enemy. This way it's very strong for pve, but won't be completely overpowered for pvp.

It could also be used to buff skills that need it, such as dark deal/dark conversion. if battle spirit is active, this skill cannot be interrupted. Or mages wrath: if battle spirit is active, this skill cannot be dodged.

This would make it so much easier for them to balance the 2 modes (pve/pvp) and create a lot less outcry when a class gets nerfed/buffed as the nerf/buff would only really apply to 1 mode and not both as well as only needing to do smaller hits instead of sweeping changes that will likely completely break or ruin a class.
It would also make it a lot easier to target and tweak the nerfs/buffs to focus on specific parts or numbers of an ability instead of taking a sledgehammer to an entire class if it has 1 or 2 abilities that are too strong.

Mr_Stach · October 2022

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I like this idea, especially since you can tack on similar buffs to any ability to give it a different functionality for each mode (something a lot of players have been talking about for a while now).

It might be easier to tie it to battle spirit since you can just have a generic condition on skills that checks for if battle spirit is active or not instead of making dozens of new buffs/debuffs etc.

Mr_Stach wrote: »

For Example:

Northern Storm:
Twist a violent storm around you, dealing 1161 Frost Damage every 1 second for 8 seconds to enemies around you and reducing their Movement Speed by 40% and increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 300 for 30 seconds. You and nearby allies gain Major Protection, reducing your damage taken by 10%. You also gain Amplify, Increasing the Damage this Ability does to Monsters by 20%

from your example it could be worded:
Northern Storm:
Twist a violent storm around you, dealing 1161 Frost Damage every 1 second for 8 seconds to enemies around you and reducing their Movement Speed by 40% and increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 300 for 30 seconds. You and nearby allies gain Major Protection, reducing your damage taken by 10%. If battle spirit is not active, this skill deals 20% additional damage to monsters.

or take the changes surprise attack went through in the U35 pts, where it was originally a guaranteed crit on every cast on a flanked enemy, they could have left that as the effect on the skill but added a condition to it: If battle spirit is active, the guaranteed crit only works once every 4 casts on a flanked enemy. This way it's very strong for pve, but won't be completely overpowered for pvp.

It could also be used to buff skills that need it, such as dark deal/dark conversion. if battle spirit is active, this skill cannot be interrupted. Or mages wrath: if battle spirit is active, this skill cannot be dodged.

This would make it so much easier for them to balance the 2 modes (pve/pvp) and create a lot less outcry when a class gets nerfed/buffed as the nerf/buff would only really apply to 1 mode and not both as well as only needing to do smaller hits instead of sweeping changes that will likely completely break or ruin a class.
It would also make it a lot easier to target and tweak the nerfs/buffs to focus on specific parts or numbers of an ability instead of taking a sledgehammer to an entire class if it has 1 or 2 abilities that are too strong.

That's a good point mixing the amplify idea with battle spirit could be a perfect way for Zos to split the difference.

I also like the idea that it's not a generic amplify does X thing, but makes it so that amplify adjusts the skill however it needs to be in or out of pvp.