With current dots length of 20/24 seconds may be weapon ground AOEs can be the same 20/24 seconds ?

SPR_of_HA_community · September 2022

Weapon ground AOEs are used to proc weapon glypghs and poisons.

It is not really comfortable to play with skills with length 4/5/10/14/15/18/20/24/35 seconds and etc.

May be at least ground weapon AOEs can get length of morphs of 20/24 seconds ?

And as example on DK class:
Total time of as example skills like Eruption from 18 second changed to 24 seconds ? (only change of DPS skill morph, not healing one)(the same as class dots length).

And Molten Armaments length change to Class dot time * 2 ?

This skill already lose unique buff in U35, 35 second is not comfortable time to use. The skill itself is lose of DPS. Make it atleast 24*2= 48+ seconds like 2 class dots are.

The same time passive like Mountain's Blessing works not 20 but 24 seconds (like class dots are in duration).

It can make game much more comfortable. Now rotations feels really bad. Very bad calldown timers on skills.

MurkyWetWolf198 · September 2022

They tried this, but the community correctly predicted how ineffective that would be. While it might be better on a dummy if everything lasted 20+ seconds, it creates problems for actual encounters. Ground AoEs don’t follow their targets. This matters because very few enemies, especially in difficult content, stay still long enough for a 20 second ground AoE to do enough damage to be worthwhile of casting. Hence, no one would run those abilities in content, and damage would drop even further.
Part of me wishes they made the timers more unified too. I would like everything to line up and be consistent in theory. But, more of me recognizes that the difficulty of parsing with hodgepodge timers is why I find it so satisfying, and learning the ins and outs of each skill is where improvement comes from. So, while I think some of the awkward things should be shifted around, overall I don’t want timers to change anymore than they have already

MurkyWetWolf198 · September 2022

Let’s be honest; if ZOS changes timers again, they’re likely gonna end up worse somehow lol

SPR_of_HA_community · September 2022

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

They tried this, but the community correctly predicted how ineffective that would be. While it might be better on a dummy if everything lasted 20+ seconds, it creates problems for actual encounters. Ground AoEs don’t follow their targets. This matters because very few enemies, especially in difficult content, stay still long enough for a 20 second ground AoE to do enough damage to be worthwhile of casting. Hence, no one would run those abilities in content, and damage would drop even further.
Part of me wishes they made the timers more unified too. I would like everything to line up and be consistent in theory. But, more of me recognizes that the difficulty of parsing with hodgepodge timers is why I find it so satisfying, and learning the ins and outs of each skill is where improvement comes from. So, while I think some of the awkward things should be shifted around, overall I don’t want timers to change anymore than they have already

Even if it would not do some thing - the same timers are more comfortable.

I do not ask to change all ground AOEs, at least part of them, the most important for me is weapon ability to proc Glyphs and poisons.

If even nothing change a lot - it will be much comfortable at least in some part of fights.

As example 18 second ground AOE do not lend in normal rotation at all. The same time buffs like Mountain's Blessing is shorter than class dots now. It is not comfortable to use at all.

MurkyWetWolf198 · September 2022

That’s more a problem of certain passives not having updated timers; the dots themselves don’t need a change in duration overall (albeit, tweaks to remove awkwardness of something’s would be welcome).
All class minor buffs that are given to group should honestly last 30 seconds or so, just to ease on uptimes. It’d be awkward to recast an ability early on just to refresh the group buff.
But enchants are fine. You don’t need to recast an ability to re-activate the enchant. For example, Stampede will continuously refresh a WD/SD enchant on your backbar for 20 seconds (go test this, watch the buff timer). No need to change what isn’t broken.
And maybe longer timers would help in some fights. But it lowers the viability of AoE dots in most content, especially when you realize that normal enemies in between bosses aren’t gonna live long enough to get the full duration of AoE dots even now.
Don’t extend the timers anymore

boi_anachronism_ · September 2022

When they extended timers for ground dots they ticked every 2 seconds(if it was every second damage would double which they didn't want) which meant they ended up doing about half damage or less unless the mobs/boss were pretty much stationary. 20 second ground dots in March of sacrifices for example wouldn't even be worth running I can think of probably a dozen other situations that are the same just off the top of my head. Cloudrest is one of the few that you could actually get full ticks. That's why it was pulled from the last patch, it just didn't make sense. Should timers line up better? Yes. Is 2 second ticks on dots that are stationary the way to go? Definitely not.

vgabor · September 2022

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

May be at least ground weapon AOEs can get length of morphs of 20/24 seconds ?

Nah, very few boss will stay in one place for that long in newer contents, and for non boss encounters they die way earlier then that. For ground AOE the 10-14 seconds looks like about the right length, anything more you most likely will waste some of the ticks...

WrathOfInnos · September 2022

Yeah the main issues when they tried this on PTS were:

- Tick rates were reduced (guessing to reduce server load over long duration), so they did not reliably proc other effects (enchants, status, sets)
- DPS was reduced to make up for the long durations, so most ground DoTs were not worth using for common enemies that die in 10-15s or any boss that moves or has immunity phases
- Rotations were very boring with about 4-5 casts of DoTs then 15-20 spammables in a row

I agree timers should line up better, they are a mess right now, but I think they should all be shorter. Some as low as 3-4s would be nice, and I'd say max 12-15s for DoTs. Buffs can be longer at 40-60s. Keep it all cohesive by making sure short and medium duration skills share a common multiple (like when Warden shalks were 3s and could be cast 4 times per 12s Winter's Revenge).

SPR_of_HA_community · September 2022

Better timers would be good. At least the same like they were before or like now with the same length.

Some classes have better timers, and some have like dk 4/14/15/18/20/24/35 second skills. Id do not feel comfortable to use. It feels really bad.

Jammy420 · September 2022

Absolutely not, if everything is 20 seconds and I have to spam one skill for 20 seconds I will fall asleep.

SPR_of_HA_community · September 2022

Jammy420 wrote: »

Absolutely not, if everything is 20 seconds and I have to spam one skill for 20 seconds I will fall asleep.

Sone classes have skills with +- same 20 second timers the same time.

They do it for accesability - goal was not achieved with such timers.

What was a reason to change than - some thing that was better and more comfortable ?

Older version was better, feels better and was more accessible.

If they do like it is in U35 - it is much worse and needs a change.

Jammy420 · September 2022

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Absolutely not, if everything is 20 seconds and I have to spam one skill for 20 seconds I will fall asleep.

Sone classes have skills with +- same 20 second timers the same time.

They do it for accesability - goal was not achieved with such timers.

What was a reason to change than - some thing that was better and more comfortable ?

Older version was better, feels better and was more accessible.

If they do like it is in U35 - it is much worse and needs a change.

A few timers of 20 seconds are fine. But if all of them suddenly got changed to 20 seconds, you would cast skills, spam one skill for 10 seconds.

SPR_of_HA_community · September 2022

Jammy420 wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Absolutely not, if everything is 20 seconds and I have to spam one skill for 20 seconds I will fall asleep.

Sone classes have skills with +- same 20 second timers the same time.

They do it for accesability - goal was not achieved with such timers.

What was a reason to change than - some thing that was better and more comfortable ?

Older version was better, feels better and was more accessible.

If they do like it is in U35 - it is much worse and needs a change.

A few timers of 20 seconds are fine. But if all of them suddenly got changed to 20 seconds, you would cast skills, spam one skill for 10 seconds.

It is better for me than spam the same skills but with different timers.

Current version of game play is the worst of all possible.

Old version with 10/14 second skills feels better, was more accessible and rotation looks more like rotation.

Trundik · September 2022

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

And as example on DK class:
Total time of as example skills like Eruption from 18 second changed to 24 seconds ? (only change of DPS skill morph, not healing one)(the same as class dots length).
.

20 is better.

But aoe duration tied to rotation and resource management. Its more than just random nubers. Short skills is better than long and actually you asking for make erruption worse.

Current version of game play is the worst of all possible.

Well, i like current. That is because my game is laggy. Every barswap have delay. 50% cases it won't work from 1st button push. So using yokeda with 5 seconds buff I must use no more than 2 skills at backbar. Longer dots -> less switches -> less dps drop.

Tannus15 · September 2022

The weird thing is they knew long ground dots are a problem, hence the change a while back to eruption so it can be recast on a new location with less penalty. The whole experiment in that direction made no sense to me when they have had to customise 1 skill already to make it more usable.

as far as timers go, I think 10/15 for ground with 20/30 for "sticky" and 30/60 for buffs is the way to go.
i'd very much prefer skills like degen and winters revenge were changed to match these timers.

delayed hit skills like prey and scorch and stack building skills like ba and focus are their own thing and can be left alone in my opinion.

Jammy420 · September 2022

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Absolutely not, if everything is 20 seconds and I have to spam one skill for 20 seconds I will fall asleep.

Sone classes have skills with +- same 20 second timers the same time.

They do it for accesability - goal was not achieved with such timers.

What was a reason to change than - some thing that was better and more comfortable ?

Older version was better, feels better and was more accessible.

If they do like it is in U35 - it is much worse and needs a change.

A few timers of 20 seconds are fine. But if all of them suddenly got changed to 20 seconds, you would cast skills, spam one skill for 10 seconds.

It is better for me than spam the same skills but with different timers.

Current version of game play is the worst of all possible.

Old version with 10/14 second skills feels better, was more accessible and rotation looks more like rotation.

As long as they dont all turn 20 seconds im ok. The combat is what drew me into this game, not spamming one skill 20 times in a row.

MashmalloMan · September 2022

Tannus15 wrote: »

The weird thing is they knew long ground dots are a problem, hence the change a while back to eruption so it can be recast on a new location with less penalty. The whole experiment in that direction made no sense to me when they have had to customise 1 skill already to make it more usable.

as far as timers go, I think 10/15 for ground with 20/30 for "sticky" and 30/60 for buffs is the way to go.
i'd very much prefer skills like degen and winters revenge were changed to match these timers.

delayed hit skills like prey and scorch and stack building skills like ba and focus are their own thing and can be left alone in my opinion.

This. So much this. That shound be the standard across the board. Lotus Flower/Channeled Acceleration already follow that 60 second rule with the opportunity for a more powerful version at 1/3rd the duration. That balancing act feels right. The duration times feel right for both options.

DK's 4s to Ardent Flame, NBs 2s to Shadow, Templar's 2s to Dawns Wrath, and 20% to Mages Guild. These all should of been reworked. I have no idea why ZOS left them in U35 where they claimed to be focussing on accessibility. How are we on the patch following that with no improvements based on that combat overhaul and the feedback given.

Surge, Molten Armaments, Betty, they should all folow that 20s (more power) vs 60s (longer duration) mantra.

What if Betty had 1 morph that gave mag or stam based on highest offensive pool, then the other morph did something completely new?

What if Crit Surge lasted 60s, but Power Surge at 20s was a much more potent aoe hot healers could actually rely on.

BretonMage · October 2022

I honestly don't see why sticky DoTs need to be 20s when static DoTs are 10s - it's obviously much easier to refresh both at the same time.

I think both static and sticky DoTs and AoEs could be kept at 10s or 12s, buffs at 3x that, and delayed hit skills like daedric prey are fine with short durations.