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How are these add-ons allowed?
Sleeping_OwI
✭✭✭
Every time i watch an eso video or stream on PC, it baffles me that they have all these add-ons that make content so much easier by tell you about incoming mechanics BEFORE they happen, they tell you when to block, when to dodge, when to swap bars, etc. Every difficult mechanic in a dungeon or trial is made easy by these add-ons that make sure the player doesn't forget or miss them. The whole point of mechanics is that the player should remember and deal with them WHILE everything else is happening, that's the hard part, the pressure and the multitasking. Obviously a simple press of a dodge or block button itself isn't hard, it's remembering where and when to do it in the heat of the moment while tanking/dpsing the boss that is difficult. And all of that challenge is thrown down the drain with these lazy easy mode add-ons that have accurate timers for every single mechanic: a text AND a bell sound effect for every time you need to dodge direct attacks, exact timers for the orbs in Graven Deep final boss HM, giant text with the targeted player's name on the screen BEFORE Lady Thorn's one-shot teleport move happens, all those times in cloudrest where you need to stack or kite Aoes or or block etc, exact timers and notifications for when abilities need to be refreshed on the dummy, incoming waves in coral aerie, the spreading Aoes in shipwright's Braddigan,... and so on and on...
PC players have add-ons for all of them, holding their hands, conveniently telling them exactly when to do every important mechanic. This literally and simply makes hard content MUCH easier, it makes it much harder to make mistakes or forget things. When you literally have a device/program telling you when to do mechanics, how is that any different than cheating? How on earth are these add-ons allowed in the game?
Edited by ZOS_Lunar on September 28, 2022 8:23PM PC players have add-ons for all of them, holding their hands, conveniently telling them exactly when to do every important mechanic. This literally and simply makes hard content MUCH easier, it makes it much harder to make mistakes or forget things. When you literally have a device/program telling you when to do mechanics, how is that any different than cheating? How on earth are these add-ons allowed in the game?
12
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ellmarie✭✭✭✭Yeah, I was also watching a video, and all of a sudden, I see <Block> come up. And I'm like whaaaa? You mean you get told to block? I was trying to see if there was a setting in nameplates to turn this on for console, but no. I feel like I'm definitely learning the game playing on a console. Hell I have all the survey locations memorized by now, I don't need an add on. Although I can't argue too much because I would definitely like some of these add ons. Not sure how I feel about the mechanic ones.Xbox X- NA3 -
Arthtur✭✭✭✭✭
✭Last time i checked, there were still a lot of players who arent able to do DLC dungeons on normal... If just getting this addon would make the game so much easier there would be more players taking part in harder content.
Also there is another reason for using such addons. When i tanked vRG, there was somebody wiping the group all the time on the second boss. Group leader had to install addon like that to see who is doing it and kick him. So addon saved this group from disbanding because of 1 player.
And no, i dont use it because i dont need it. I thought about getting it tho, after that situation in RG. Other players are clearly the most dangerous mechanic....5 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, I was also watching a video, and all of a sudden, I see <Block> come up. And I'm like whaaaa? You mean you get told to block? I was trying to see if there was a setting in nameplates to turn this on for console, but no. I feel like I'm definitely learning the game playing on a console. Hell I have all the survey locations memorized by now, I don't need an add on. Although I can't argue too much because I would definitely like some of these add ons. Not sure how I feel about the mechanic ones.
Yeah, weirdly I’m fine with all the other addons but that one specifically is where I draw the line, so I turned that setting off (assuming we’re talking about the same thing, anyway). But hey, if it gets more people into tanking maybe it’s worth it. A lot of (but not all) of the contents of mechanic addons show mechanics you can already see or get a rhythm for, just in a different (and more obvious) way.
Edited by Soarora on September 28, 2022 1:05PMPC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
- Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
- Trials: 9/12 HMs - 4/8 Tris
- Dungeons: 32/32 HMs - 25/26 Tris
- All Veterans completed!
View my builds!
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freespirit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As a distinctly average player I have a couple of those addons that tell you what to do when BUT they don't make you a better player!
If like me you are not a brilliant keyboard user, telling me when I need to do what just makes me panic and ultimately misclick all the time!
I was told I needed these addons but honestly they cause me more anxiety than they actually help me! :'(When people say to me........
"You're going to regret that in the morning"
I sleep until midday cos I'm a problem solver!5 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭On PC, and have NO combat addons. The game itself tells you when to dodge, block, break free (if you have Combat Cues on in the Combat section of Gameplay in Settings).
They were on by default (I think - long time back now) when I started play, and I just never turned them off. I don't even notice them any more, so probably I really should just disable them.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....7 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Last time i checked, there were still a lot of players who arent able to do DLC dungeons on normal... If just getting this addon would make the game so much easier there would be more players taking part in harder content.
Also there is another reason for using such addons. When i tanked vRG, there was somebody wiping the group all the time on the second boss. Group leader had to install addon like that to see who is doing it and kick him. So addon saved this group from disbanding because of 1 player.
And no, i dont use it because i dont need it. I thought about getting it tho, after that situation in RG. Other players are clearly the most dangerous mechanic....
Or, and hear me out, the game should be balanced around in game things, and not third party add-ons. If players with base game UI cannot complete DLC normal dungeons, then maybe the dungeons themselves should be adjusted rather than expecting players to essentially cheat the mechanics using addons.8 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I play on PC with almost no combat addons. One allows me to rearrange the bits of info on the UI so things are where I want to see them. The other simply shows me both bars all the time so I can see the status of timed skills on my off bar. I find that while those minor tweaks to how info is presented is helpful, it is easy to get info-overloaded right into confused inaction. The You Tube vids with a screen full of UI would simply confuse me and result in lower performance.
Bigger picture wise, addons allow more options to suit individual taste - which is a good thing. PC players who want to use zero addons can certainly do so. Console players don't have any choice so they are stuck playing how someone else wants them to play.PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo2 -
Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭On PC, and have NO combat addons. The game itself tells you when to dodge, block, break free (if you have Combat Cues on in the Combat section of Gameplay in Settings).
They were on by default (I think - long time back now) when I started play, and I just never turned them off. I don't even notice them any more, so probably I really should just disable them.
I was thinking the same, I don't use any combat addons and I get things coming up sometimes telling me to dodge or whatever and which button it is, but I couldn't remember where the setting is.
I assume the addon version is more extensive though. I've never used it, but if it was exactly the same as what's in the game by default I can't see why someone would have taken the time to make it.PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"2 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Personally I am against all add-ons. And do not use them, on PC EU.
The ones telling players when to block/dodge/evade in dungeons aren't harmful, they actually benefit the players they are grouped with as well. Making dungeons/trials a smoother experience. Using these add-ons in PvP is another matter though.
Add-ons in content where you basically compete with other players(PvP, farming nodes, thieves troves, treasure chests, etc), should be a big no-go and should immediately be banned in my opinion. Same goes for e-brag add-ons like damagemeters and other add-ons like that, should be banned as well to create a more friendly environment. Add-ons that spy on other players should also be banned immediately, there is no reason players should ever see another player's gear, stats, skills, cp, loot, etc. These only create hostility for no reason.
ZOS should really look into add-ons and disable most of them, in my opinion.
But I do feel ZOS should add helpful combat mechanics/hints for dungeons/trials to the base game itself, as we are currently having so many dungeons it becomes impossible to remember all mechanics for all bosses in them.Edited by Sarannah on September 28, 2022 2:40PM2 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fortunately for most of us, @Sarannah, there aren't many of you who are that extreme in attitude. I don't use addons for harvesting etc. I don't need them as I know after so many years pretty much where everything is (including skyshards, thieves troves and treasure chests, not only resource nodes), so I don't need addons for that. All of my addons are QOL tweaks - I've been playing CRPGs since the mid-80s, and I'm not interested in games I can't tweak to how I expect them to look and play as to UI.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....7 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭Sleeping_OwI wrote: »Every time i watch an eso video or stream on PC, it baffles me that they have all these add-ons that make content so much easier by tell you about incoming mechanics BEFORE they happen, they tell you when to block, when to dodge, when to swap bars, etc. Every difficult mechanic in a dungeon or trial is made easy by these add-ons that make sure the player doesn't forget or miss them. The whole point of mechanics is that the player should remember and deal with them WHILE everything else is happening, that's the hard part, the pressure and the multitasking. Obviously a simple press of a dodge or block button itself isn't hard, it's remembering where and when to do it in the heat of the moment while tanking/dpsing the boss that is difficult. And all of that challenge is thrown down the drain with these lazy easy mode add-ons that have accurate timers for every single mechanic: a text AND a bell sound effect for every time you need to dodge direct attacks, exact timers for the orbs in Graven Deep final boss HM, giant text with the targeted player's name on the screen BEFORE Lady Thorn's one-shot teleport move happens, all those times in cloudrest where you need to stack or kite Aoes or or block etc, exact timers and notifications for when abilities need to be refreshed on the dummy, incoming waves in coral aerie, the spreading Aoes in shipwright's Braddigan,... and so on and on...
PC players have add-ons for all of them, holding their hands, conveniently telling them exactly when to do every important mechanic. This literally and simply makes hard content MUCH easier, it makes it much harder to make mistakes or forget things. When you literally have a device/program telling you when to do mechanics, how is that any different than cheating? How on earth are these add-ons allowed in the game?
If what you're saying here was accurate, people wouldn't be struggling to complete vDSR HM like they are and veteran trials would be a breeze. Considering that isn't actually the case, this comes off as nothing more than sour grapes. Even with addons 60% of the player base still can't manage to complete a veteran dungeon and even fewer can do competitive DPS.Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"4 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PC cannot and is not competing with consoles, why do you care?
That's not entirely accurate.
The game is balanced across all platforms. If PC players using addons are skewing completion numbers and ZOS is using that data alongside console data to perform balance passes for content, those addons are directly, negatively, impacting console players. Not just for content either, but also for overall DPS.9 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maybe if some players didn't use so many addons they wouldn't complain that everything was too easy? Just a thought.5 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the only combat related addons i use are like combat metrics, and FTC for the scrolling combat log, but i dont use any of the combat alert ones lol
i dont necessarily think they are needed with the way the game provides you informationplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
Kirawolfe✭✭✭✭✭Before these add-ons were available, people used to call these alerts out for their groups doing bosses. They still do on some of the harder runs we've done. Not much difference between people calling it out, and the add-ons, except that the add-ons do it for everything.
I'm actually more likely to react to someone calling it out, than the add-on.1 -
Sleeping_OwI✭✭✭Last time i checked, there were still a lot of players who arent able to do DLC dungeons on normal... If just getting this addon would make the game so much easier there would be more players taking part in harder content.
Also there is another reason for using such addons. When i tanked vRG, there was somebody wiping the group all the time on the second boss. Group leader had to install addon like that to see who is doing it and kick him. So addon saved this group from disbanding because of 1 player.
And no, i dont use it because i dont need it. I thought about getting it tho, after that situation in RG. Other players are clearly the most dangerous mechanic....
Or, and hear me out, the game should be balanced around in game things, and not third party add-ons. If players with base game UI cannot complete DLC normal dungeons, then maybe the dungeons themselves should be adjusted rather than expecting players to essentially cheat the mechanics using addons.
The dungeons and content are fine, it's the combat tutorial that is very lacking and needs changing. It is the reason why so many players suck in harder content because they dont know. They game never taught them anything after the first basic "here's how to block, bash, light attack, you're now good to go!"3 -
Sleeping_OwI✭✭✭Sleeping_OwI wrote: »Every time i watch an eso video or stream on PC, it baffles me that they have all these add-ons that make content so much easier by tell you about incoming mechanics BEFORE they happen, they tell you when to block, when to dodge, when to swap bars, etc. Every difficult mechanic in a dungeon or trial is made easy by these add-ons that make sure the player doesn't forget or miss them. The whole point of mechanics is that the player should remember and deal with them WHILE everything else is happening, that's the hard part, the pressure and the multitasking. Obviously a simple press of a dodge or block button itself isn't hard, it's remembering where and when to do it in the heat of the moment while tanking/dpsing the boss that is difficult. And all of that challenge is thrown down the drain with these lazy easy mode add-ons that have accurate timers for every single mechanic: a text AND a bell sound effect for every time you need to dodge direct attacks, exact timers for the orbs in Graven Deep final boss HM, giant text with the targeted player's name on the screen BEFORE Lady Thorn's one-shot teleport move happens, all those times in cloudrest where you need to stack or kite Aoes or or block etc, exact timers and notifications for when abilities need to be refreshed on the dummy, incoming waves in coral aerie, the spreading Aoes in shipwright's Braddigan,... and so on and on...
PC players have add-ons for all of them, holding their hands, conveniently telling them exactly when to do every important mechanic. This literally and simply makes hard content MUCH easier, it makes it much harder to make mistakes or forget things. When you literally have a device/program telling you when to do mechanics, how is that any different than cheating? How on earth are these add-ons allowed in the game?
If what you're saying here was accurate, people wouldn't be struggling to complete vDSR HM like they are and veteran trials would be a breeze. Considering that isn't actually the case, this comes off as nothing more than sour grapes. Even with addons 60% of the player base still can't manage to complete a veteran dungeon and even fewer can do competitive DPS.
That is because of the game's lackluster combat tutorial that many players can't clear basic content. Add-ons is a whole other thing and it can make a lot of difference in higher levels, but PC players love to downplay it yet can't live without it lol.Edited by Sleeping_OwI on September 28, 2022 4:06PM2 -
Sleeping_OwI✭✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »I play on PC with almost no combat addons. One allows me to rearrange the bits of info on the UI so things are where I want to see them. The other simply shows me both bars all the time so I can see the status of timed skills on my off bar. I find that while those minor tweaks to how info is presented is helpful, it is easy to get info-overloaded right into confused inaction. The You Tube vids with a screen full of UI would simply confuse me and result in lower performance.
Bigger picture wise, addons allow more options to suit individual taste - which is a good thing. PC players who want to use zero addons can certainly do so. Console players don't have any choice so they are stuck playing how someone else wants them to play.
I dont mind the quality-of-life add-ons at all, in fact I'd love to have those on console. I'm just against those that reduce combat difficulty and challenge by calling out every mechanic ahead of time.Edited by Sleeping_OwI on September 28, 2022 4:09PM3 -
Androrix✭✭✭✭I have never used an add on. I agree with freespirit that the combat addons would probably just make me anxious. It does not bother me that other players use them.
The only add on I have seen that does bother me is the creepy one that lets other players see what drops you get in dungeons. That one seems, well, like I said...creepy.5 -
boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Before these add-ons were available, people used to call these alerts out for their groups doing bosses. They still do on some of the harder runs we've done. Not much difference between people calling it out, and the add-ons, except that the add-ons do it for everything.
I'm actually more likely to react to someone calling it out, than the add-on.
I'm gonna say no to this point. Having a program that is never wrong do your call-outs in big bold words across your screen vs having players try to remember to do call-outs at the correct time is iffy at best. They certainly don't give a reliable countdown like they do with the jump mechanic is vas for example. They get missed a lot or mistimed and you see this in action on console all the time. It's a big reason that teams wipe. It also interrupts a least one members dps as their primary concern becomes watching mechanics instead of their role. For example sometimes I have to leave group to see where the reef guardian has disappeared to so I can call out for portals in vdsr.
Personally I don't care if people use add-ons. I personally would only use QL ones given the option like seeing both bars at once ect. That said add-ons definitely give advantages in some scenarios, especially for high end players where mer seconds of dps count.Edited by boi_anachronism_ on September 28, 2022 4:31PM3 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can we just stop with the Console vs PC wars. I will tell you right now, addons do a lot less harm to the game than trying to dumb down a PC game for consoles. You want to play with addons, play on PC. You want a better performance experience, even without addons, play on PC. If you dont, play on console, thats fine. Nobody on PC cares what you do over there. Just stop already. Addons help on the margins for score runs, but they dont play the game for you.
The vast majority of addon use by PC players are simply QOL addons that address obvious flaws in the base game.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on September 28, 2022 5:24PM19 -
oregonrob✭✭✭Since I play exclusively in first person, I find the combat addons to be distracting and I never use them. The rest of the addons I use are for mainly crafting and to help me keep track of things. However, I have no issue with others using combat addons or other types of addons because it helps make the game special for each PC player.
The consoles technology is old, and I suspect the reason that a lot of the quality of life addons are not in the game is because the consoles are the limiting factor. If the game was solely PC, we probably would have a better experience.
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Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It wouldn't surprise me if a significant number of PC players don't use addons, because I think most people playing any game don't research it online or use external resources to learn about it, so they don't know what addons are available or where to get them.
Mods have been popular with TES players for decades, but I've met far more people who play the games with no mods at all than ones who use them, for exactly that reason - they buy the game, they play it, they don't go out of their way to find out what they could add to it and so never encounter them.
I suspect it's more common among people who spend a lot of time in trials, vet dungeons etc. because they're more likely to research the game and more likely to encounter people who will tell them about addons, but even so I'm sceptical it has much impact on things like balance decisions.PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"1 -
Carcamongus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For most of my ESO career (so to speak) I've used no addons. However, I had to get some combat addons when I started doing vet trials. In my view, the mods help, but they don't make actually knowing mechanics unnecessary. If you don't know what you're doing, the alerts won't do the job for you.
What about people who have difficulty seeing some mechanics are about to go off or whose reflexes aren't the best? Combat addons can help compensate for defficiencies that aren't the player's fault.
I have to agree, though, that those addons that allow other people to see what you loot are bad.Imperial DK and Necro tank. PC/NA
"Nothing is so bad that it can't get any worse." (Brazilian saying)3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I suspect it's more common among people who spend a lot of time in trials, vet dungeons etc. because they're more likely to research the game and more likely to encounter people who will tell them about addons, but even so I'm sceptical it has much impact on things like balance decisions.
I don't participate in any end game but I use add-ons. Combat isn't the only reason for them. They provide a lot of quality of life features.
PCNA3 -
ZOS_SuserialadminGreetings,
We understand that people will not always agree and have their own opinions they want to express, but we also want the forums to be a constructive platform for ESO and its community. It’s all right to disagree or even debate with each other, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, antagonizing, trolling, etc. Is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. This is a friendly reminder to remain on topic and civil when posting.
If the thread moves off-topic or post's violate the Community Rules it will be closed.
Thank you
The Elder Scrolls Online - ZeniMax Online Studios
Community Rules | Code-of-Conduct | Terms-of-Service | ESO-Home | ESO-Help1 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_Suserial wrote: »Greetings,
We understand that people will not always agree and have their own opinions they want to express, but we also want the forums to be a constructive platform for ESO and its community. It’s all right to disagree or even debate with each other, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, antagonizing, trolling, etc. Is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. This is a friendly reminder to remain on topic and civil when posting.
If the thread moves off-topic or post's violate the Community Rules it will be closed.
Thank you
Please review the phrasing of the OP, then, especially the last paragraph. How is accusing PC players as a whole of cheating because they (all, apparently?) use add-ons - for which ZOS directly provides and audits the API - constructive or likely to lead to constructive dialogue?
You rightfully do not permit PC players to bash console players by virtue of their chosen platform. Why do PC players deserve to be accused of cheating because their chosen platform allows the use of ZOS-enabled and -approved add-ons?5 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭Sleeping_OwI wrote: »Sleeping_OwI wrote: »Every time i watch an eso video or stream on PC, it baffles me that they have all these add-ons that make content so much easier by tell you about incoming mechanics BEFORE they happen, they tell you when to block, when to dodge, when to swap bars, etc. Every difficult mechanic in a dungeon or trial is made easy by these add-ons that make sure the player doesn't forget or miss them. The whole point of mechanics is that the player should remember and deal with them WHILE everything else is happening, that's the hard part, the pressure and the multitasking. Obviously a simple press of a dodge or block button itself isn't hard, it's remembering where and when to do it in the heat of the moment while tanking/dpsing the boss that is difficult. And all of that challenge is thrown down the drain with these lazy easy mode add-ons that have accurate timers for every single mechanic: a text AND a bell sound effect for every time you need to dodge direct attacks, exact timers for the orbs in Graven Deep final boss HM, giant text with the targeted player's name on the screen BEFORE Lady Thorn's one-shot teleport move happens, all those times in cloudrest where you need to stack or kite Aoes or or block etc, exact timers and notifications for when abilities need to be refreshed on the dummy, incoming waves in coral aerie, the spreading Aoes in shipwright's Braddigan,... and so on and on...
PC players have add-ons for all of them, holding their hands, conveniently telling them exactly when to do every important mechanic. This literally and simply makes hard content MUCH easier, it makes it much harder to make mistakes or forget things. When you literally have a device/program telling you when to do mechanics, how is that any different than cheating? How on earth are these add-ons allowed in the game?
If what you're saying here was accurate, people wouldn't be struggling to complete vDSR HM like they are and veteran trials would be a breeze. Considering that isn't actually the case, this comes off as nothing more than sour grapes. Even with addons 60% of the player base still can't manage to complete a veteran dungeon and even fewer can do competitive DPS.
That is because of the game's lackluster combat tutorial that many players can't clear basic content. Add-ons is a whole other thing and it can make a lot of difference in higher levels, but PC players love to downplay it yet can't live without it lol.
"PC players love to downplay it yet can't live without it"
This is painfully ironic considering the game is dumbed down for console.
Just more sour grapes.Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"3
This discussion has been closed.