Daily writ rewards spreadsheet available?

Tesman85 · September 2022

For starters, this post is about blacksmithing, clothing, woodworker and jewelry writs since the others seem to be self-sustaining or even better at any level. I am trying to maximize my temper and inspiration yield from crafting daily writs, but at the same time trying to keep it self-sustaining material spending wise. That is because I don't want to deal with the hassle of periodically buying materials just for writs (except for style materials, of course). Surveys are no answer to this because I want to keep a big supply of highest-level materials for set item crafting, and I am not sure if they would even cover the difference anyway.

So, I have to determine the level of writs where the reward materials are at least as much as the amount spent for doing the writs. Doing online research on this has proved to be almost impossible, however, since I can't find anywhere how much materials each reward tier will yield, except for the very lowest one. Does anyone have or know of a spreadsheet or a table of the writ rewards at each level? Or is the only way to test it out with some character and then having to deal with the skill reset hassle?

Nestor · September 2022

@tmbrinks probably does more crafting writs than anyone else. He has all the stats.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459690/tracking-daily-writ-reward-drop-rates-refining-rates/p1

I Can tell you from personal experience on my measly 17 Characters that Metal and Wood are self sustaining if you include Surveys and Cloth is a Net loss in Mats. But the Temper Return on Cloth makes it worthwhile.

tmbrinks · September 2022

Long story short.

You will make the best return on your writs doing them at the maximum level.

Master writs only drop at maximum. The odds of getting tempers are at their maximum. It is especially important for WW/BS/Clothing/Jewelry.

Yes, you may have a slight "burn" on materials, but the additional rewards FAR, FAR outweigh the lower drop rates at not-max levels. I don't do it for every level, but between max level and minimum level, the min level get only about 30% of the profit on writs as you would get on maximum. (And yes, this factors in the cost of the materials as well)

Tesman85 · September 2022

Thanks for replying, folks!

Nestor wrote: »

@tmbrinks probably does more crafting writs than anyone else. He has all the stats.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459690/tracking-daily-writ-reward-drop-rates-refining-rates/p1

I Can tell you from personal experience on my measly 17 Characters that Metal and Wood are self sustaining if you include Surveys and Cloth is a Net loss in Mats. But the Temper Return on Cloth makes it worthwhile.

I took a second look at my craft bag, and there are every max level material in the thousands (over 10 000 everything except the clothing materials). Looks like that after all I have no reason not to do the writs at max level material-wise, since I definitely don't need five-figure stacks of materials to outfit my characters.

tmbrinks wrote: »

Long story short.

You will make the best return on your writs doing them at the maximum level.

Master writs only drop at maximum. The odds of getting tempers are at their maximum. It is especially important for WW/BS/Clothing/Jewelry.

Yes, you may have a slight "burn" on materials, but the additional rewards FAR, FAR outweigh the lower drop rates at not-max levels. I don't do it for every level, but between max level and minimum level, the min level get only about 30% of the profit on writs as you would get on maximum. (And yes, this factors in the cost of the materials as well)

Profit-wise you must be correct. At least in jewelry writs the difference between tier 1 and max tier is astounding. I found the reward drop and material expenditure numbers for that and did some calculations. Even in a worst-case scenario where I had to buy all of the platinum and only sold the chromium grains, the profit of doing max level writs with 18 characters is 525 000 gold per week! With a conservative estimate of surveys producing 2/3 of the needed materials (and accounting for the chromium that produces), the figure might be over 800 000. When factoring in the potential selling of surplus zircon and other tempers, it might climb to a million gold more than just churning the lowest tier writs.

With other craft temper materials having more sensible prices, the difference must be smaller, but if the temper drop rates at different levels are similar to jewelry crafting, I can see how the max tier writs could easily net double or triple profit compared to the lowest tier ones.

Master writs are ATM more of a nuisance than help for me, because my crafter still lacks so many style pages that it's more likely I can't do the writ than that I can. I've been buying style pages in bulk, but the damned master writs seem to always be for other styles than those I know (and expensive styles, too). Thus, I can't factor them into the profit calculations until I've amassed more style pages.

Seems I have to revise my writ policy. The first thing now is to get every character's Engraver skill to the maximum tier, and after that to get them there in other crafts one by one. Heck, shows how you can always learn something new. I've been doing writs for well over a year, but never before thought to calculate just how much gold could be squeezed out of the "side-products".

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip · September 2022

Nestor wrote: »

Surveys and Cloth is a Net loss in Mats. But the Temper Return on Cloth makes it worthwhile.

I felt this for ages after the last increase in toons to 18...same for BSmithing actually.

I decided to buy a smallish buffer from guild stores (a couple k per craft max) and since then I have build up to more than equilibreum....a net gain on all base mats even when doing dailies on all and all non J master writs.....I don't have enough of a deep dive on it to explain/prove in detail but these days I do surveys coz I need the space or want the tempers to sell, not coz I can't do my dailies.

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip · September 2022

Nestor wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459690/tracking-daily-writ-reward-drop-rates-refining-rates/p1

Hmm...I just read his post and spreader....I notice refining is per 10?

I started to anecdotally notice that I had to refine 1000+ to get a good reward if tempers.

I did a little bit of analysis on this and tracking buying tempers vs buying base mats (different question but observing the same mechanics) and found this to be true.

I have gotten into mild disagreements about this on guild chat before - folks who feel 100 is the magic number . I don't really want to post my limited analysis and get into nickle and diming - it works for me and I feel they drop more in large quantities.

Not related to the base mats Q, but given this was quoted as a source of wisdom I thought I would post my dissenting experience - best bet is to try yourself and see what works.

Tesman85 · September 2022

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459690/tracking-daily-writ-reward-drop-rates-refining-rates/p1

Hmm...I just read his post and spreader....I notice refining is per 10?

I started to anecdotally notice that I had to refine 1000+ to get a good reward if tempers.

I did a little bit of analysis on this and tracking buying tempers vs buying base mats (different question but observing the same mechanics) and found this to be true.

I have gotten into mild disagreements about this on guild chat before - folks who feel 100 is the magic number . I don't really want to post my limited analysis and get into nickle and diming - it works for me and I feel they drop more in large quantities.

Not related to the base mats Q, but given this was quoted as a source of wisdom I thought I would post my dissenting experience - best bet is to try yourself and see what works.

I personally think that there is no "magic" number where the yield is greatest, because the chances of getting tempers are constant numbers, for gold tempers about 0,5 percent. Therefore, if one refines 10 at a time, most of the repetitions yield no gold materials. But if one refines 1000 at one go, there's almost guaranteed to be some. This creates a psychological effect where some raw material amount seem to give more. Still, mathematically the average remains at 5 gold tempers per 1000 raw materials. I refine materials usually a few thousand at one go, and in those amounts the yields generally approach the stated temper drop percentages.

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip · September 2022

Tesman85 wrote: »

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459690/tracking-daily-writ-reward-drop-rates-refining-rates/p1

Hmm...I just read his post and spreader....I notice refining is per 10?

I started to anecdotally notice that I had to refine 1000+ to get a good reward if tempers.

I did a little bit of analysis on this and tracking buying tempers vs buying base mats (different question but observing the same mechanics) and found this to be true.

I have gotten into mild disagreements about this on guild chat before - folks who feel 100 is the magic number . I don't really want to post my limited analysis and get into nickle and diming - it works for me and I feel they drop more in large quantities.

Not related to the base mats Q, but given this was quoted as a source of wisdom I thought I would post my dissenting experience - best bet is to try yourself and see what works.

I personally think that there is no "magic" number where the yield is greatest, because the chances of getting tempers are constant numbers, for gold tempers about 0,5 percent. Therefore, if one refines 10 at a time, most of the repetitions yield no gold materials. But if one refines 1000 at one go, there's almost guaranteed to be some. This creates a psychological effect where some raw material amounts seem to give more. Still, mathematically the average remains at 5 gold tempers per 1000 raw materials. I refine materials usually a few thousand at one go, and in those amounts the yields generally approach the stated temper drop percentages.

Yeh look - I totally pondered tackling this one in my reply - I even pondered trying to figure out if 1x 1/200 vs 1000x1/200 has any proven difference in mathematics or 'vegascience' more generally...I decided I was probably wrong and also I don't want to get into fights about this coz ultimately I am happy banking em and getting lots and lots of tempers and if you (the royal you) prefers doing a single survey and then crafting 10 (100) then go nuts)....I have done some semi-scientific comparisons and feel saving them drops better....given its semi-scientific though I am not gonna die over it. High chance it may be psychosomatic as you suggest

My bank balance is good as I assume TMbrinks's is, as I hope yours is....if only I could log back in to harvest some mats...

Tesman85 · September 2022

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

Tesman85 wrote: »

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459690/tracking-daily-writ-reward-drop-rates-refining-rates/p1

Hmm...I just read his post and spreader....I notice refining is per 10?

I started to anecdotally notice that I had to refine 1000+ to get a good reward if tempers.

I did a little bit of analysis on this and tracking buying tempers vs buying base mats (different question but observing the same mechanics) and found this to be true.

I have gotten into mild disagreements about this on guild chat before - folks who feel 100 is the magic number . I don't really want to post my limited analysis and get into nickle and diming - it works for me and I feel they drop more in large quantities.

Not related to the base mats Q, but given this was quoted as a source of wisdom I thought I would post my dissenting experience - best bet is to try yourself and see what works.

I personally think that there is no "magic" number where the yield is greatest, because the chances of getting tempers are constant numbers, for gold tempers about 0,5 percent. Therefore, if one refines 10 at a time, most of the repetitions yield no gold materials. But if one refines 1000 at one go, there's almost guaranteed to be some. This creates a psychological effect where some raw material amounts seem to give more. Still, mathematically the average remains at 5 gold tempers per 1000 raw materials. I refine materials usually a few thousand at one go, and in those amounts the yields generally approach the stated temper drop percentages.

Yeh look - I totally pondered tackling this one in my reply - I even pondered trying to figure out if 1x 1/200 vs 1000x1/200 has any proven difference in mathematics or 'vegascience' more generally...I decided I was probably wrong and also I don't want to get into fights about this coz ultimately I am happy banking em and getting lots and lots of tempers and if you (the royal you) prefers doing a single survey and then crafting 10 (100) then go nuts)....I have done some semi-scientific comparisons and feel saving them drops better....given its semi-scientific though I am not gonna die over it. High chance it may be psychosomatic as you suggest

My bank balance is good as I assume TMbrinks's is, as I hope yours is....if only I could log back in to harvest some mats...

Well, certainly there's no harm refining mats any way that makes one feel the best! In fact, I like to accumulate as much as I can before refining precisely because it makes me feel rich to see so many gold tempers dropping at once. It's like being a lottery winner

As for bank balance, I wish it was good. I just threw a few million gold into furnishing recipes and style motifs, and am approaching beggary (only some 2 000 000 gold left). That made me think on this topic, since I realized I'm probably not maximizing my writ profits. Good discussion, since it definitely made me rethink my approach and do some calculations.

I wish too I could log in, since I had gotten to a good start in training my characters' craft skills to max and was fired up to continue. Oh well, maybe it's good to take an occasional day off.

Nestor · September 2022

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459690/tracking-daily-writ-reward-drop-rates-refining-rates/p1

Hmm...I just read his post and spreader....I notice refining is per 10?

I started to anecdotally notice that I had to refine 1000+ to get a good reward if tempers.

I did a little bit of analysis on this and tracking buying tempers vs buying base mats (different question but observing the same mechanics) and found this to be true.

I have gotten into mild disagreements about this on guild chat before - folks who feel 100 is the magic number . I don't really want to post my limited analysis and get into nickle and diming - it works for me and I feel they drop more in large quantities.

Not related to the base mats Q, but given this was quoted as a source of wisdom I thought I would post my dissenting experience - best bet is to try yourself and see what works.

I have refined 200 Raws and earned 6 Gold Tempers, I have refined 1400 Raws and earned 4. It averages out to 1 Gold Temper per 200 Raws.

You still get a .5% chance for a temper with every 10 you refine, even if throw 1000 at the table. Larger Stacks just give you more pulls at the slot machine, as it were.

tmbrinks · September 2022

Long story short... because I've had to explain this so many times over the years.

You're wasting time refining "smaller stacks" to "game" the RNG. It. Doesn't. Matter.

The spreadsheet linked shows pre-MC (where you were forced to do them 10 mats at a time) and post-MC where you could do multiples. There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest there is a statistical difference between the two.

Save yourself time. Refine all you need at once, or everything at once.

(Now, there is an argument to keep your materials as raw materials if ZoS ever changes drop rates, like they did with Meticulous Disassembly... but they could lower the rates too, but you'd have forewarning of that on the PTS most likely)

wolfie1.0. · September 2022

tmbrinks wrote: »

Long story short... because I've had to explain this so many times over the years.

You're wasting time refining "smaller stacks" to "game" the RNG. It. Doesn't. Matter.

The spreadsheet linked shows pre-MC (where you were forced to do them 10 mats at a time) and post-MC where you could do multiples. There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest there is a statistical difference between the two.

Save yourself time. Refine all you need at once, or everything at once.

(Now, there is an argument to keep your materials as raw materials if ZoS ever changes drop rates, like they did with Meticulous Disassembly... but they could lower the rates too, but you'd have forewarning of that on the PTS most likely)

Sadly no matter how many times you provide people with the stats they will still insist that the numbers are wrong. I have provided that same spreadsheet to many players and many still insist its wrong somehow, and point to data instances that are smaller than what you have assembled.