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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Sets that buff heavy attack damage and channeled heavy attacks
FrancisCrawford
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What do damage-buffing sets buff in channeled heavy attacks these days? Every tick? Just the final one?
Obvious examples are Undaunted Infiltrator/Unweaver. Sergeant's Mail is of course another.
Draugrkin's Grip could be another, especially if the answer for it is somehow different that that for the sets that call out heavy attacks explicitly.
https://eso-sets.com/set/undaunted-unweaver
https://eso-sets.com/set/sergeants-mail
https://eso-sets.com/set/draugrkins-grip
Obvious examples are Undaunted Infiltrator/Unweaver. Sergeant's Mail is of course another.
Draugrkin's Grip could be another, especially if the answer for it is somehow different that that for the sets that call out heavy attacks explicitly.
https://eso-sets.com/set/undaunted-unweaver
https://eso-sets.com/set/sergeants-mail
https://eso-sets.com/set/draugrkins-grip
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FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭And while I'm at it -- is the infamous lightning heavy attack bug still around and, if so, what exactly does it do?
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Minnesinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭The wind is cold where I live,
The blizzard is my home,
Snow and ice and loaded dice, the Wizard lives alone.0 -
Aces-High-82✭✭✭Best combo I found so far is Sergeants plus Noble Duelist. I slapped on 1p Slime and Oaken. 66k holding one Button in blie/purple gear seems fine to me.0
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SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »What do damage-buffing sets buff in channeled heavy attacks these days? Every tick? Just the final one?
Obvious examples are Undaunted Infiltrator/Unweaver. Sergeant's Mail is of course another.
Draugrkin's Grip could be another, especially if the answer for it is somehow different that that for the sets that call out heavy attacks explicitly.
https://eso-sets.com/set/undaunted-unweaver
https://eso-sets.com/set/sergeants-mail
https://eso-sets.com/set/draugrkins-grip
All of this sets buff each hit of HA.
HA is : (not fully charged part and fully charged part)
If set say that it buff fully charged heavy attack it is added to last hit of it, other way to buff full HA it needs buff each part of it.
HA of lightning staff is channeled. Fist part of it is dot damage and last hit is direct hit.Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on August 31, 2022 4:08PM2 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »And while I'm at it -- is the infamous lightning heavy attack bug still around and, if so, what exactly does it do?
Now it is 2 bugs:
1) HA lose one hit with no trace in patch notes, that make scale from this sets 25%less. Maelstorm staff was reworked, so HA lose even more damage. (Lightning staff has bad numbers on HA, bad passives and bad stats - and now have no option to get some where more damage to HA, and is weaker than other sources of HA
and LA damage and is now possible to dodge !).
So such sets and weapons gives less than just ordinary META sets for good DPS with HA rotation.
2) Some times attack can just do not start, so you just stand and do not hit.
So you need to try repeat doing HA again and again and you just stand all that time and do no damage.
(It do not start casting)
The same bug appears with LA before, but it was fixed for a short time. On ha the same bug already exist about a year. We just wait all this time in hope it would be fixed. But ... . It looks like it was not and we just get one more problem again
Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on August 31, 2022 4:06PM3 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Minnesinger wrote: »
Thanks!
Actually, my goal here is to exploit easier access to Empower such as from Oakensoul, the DK class skill, or the Templar class skill.
E.g., doing damage in a healing build is constrained by bar space (definitely) and sustain (possibly as well).
DK healing could be intriguing for the first time in years.
Bonus in the healing case: You can heavy attack w/ lightning or resto as makes sense for the needs of the fight.0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Aces-High-82 wrote: »Best combo I found so far is Sergeants plus Noble Duelist. I slapped on 1p Slime and Oaken. 66k holding one Button in blie/purple gear seems fine to me.
66K? Against which dummy or other target? Before or after U35?
And literally one button? So you had bar space for, say, Critical Surge heals?0 -
Aces-High-82✭✭✭SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »What do damage-buffing sets buff in channeled heavy attacks these days? Every tick? Just the final one?
Obvious examples are Undaunted Infiltrator/Unweaver. Sergeant's Mail is of course another.
Draugrkin's Grip could be another, especially if the answer for it is somehow different that that for the sets that call out heavy attacks explicitly.
https://eso-sets.com/set/undaunted-unweaver
https://eso-sets.com/set/sergeants-mail
https://eso-sets.com/set/draugrkins-grip
All of this sets buff each hit of HA.
HA is : (not fully charged part and fully charged part)
If set say that it buff fully charged heavy attack it is added to last hit of it, other way to buff full HA it needs buff each part of it.
HA of lightning staff is channeled. Fist part of it is dot damage and last hit is direct hit.
I think Unweaver/Infiltrator were nerfed some time ago and add the 5p dmg only applies to the final HA tick.2 -
Aces-High-82✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »Aces-High-82 wrote: »Best combo I found so far is Sergeants plus Noble Duelist. I slapped on 1p Slime and Oaken. 66k holding one Button in blie/purple gear seems fine to me.
66K? Against which dummy or other target? Before or after U35?
And literally one button? So you had bar space for, say, Critical Surge heals?
Tested on U35 on the buffed dummy.Highelf sorc, thief mundus, 2xbloodthisty 1x infused spell dmg, 1h1m5l all divine, max mag food.
Precise staff with dmg glyph (this is golded tho). Skills: Crit Surge, ele drain (those ofc don't matter on the dummy), twilight tormentor, unstable wall, flawless dawnbreaker. Tried other skill combos but you want to proc off balance on CD as your damage will spike significantly (105k final ticks). You can minmax this further by equipping a resto. In real combat ensure you are attacking always targets during off-balance for better splash damage.Edited by Aces-High-82 on August 31, 2022 9:10PM1 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭if your going for a heavy attack build you also want to consider being able to set the target off balance, as that + empower can greatly increase heavy attack dmg
my WW toon with oakensoul hitting a target with only empower and target being off balance can do upwards 38-42k dmg crits in a single hit (and because its the WW berserker, 50% of that is splash dmg)0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »if your going for a heavy attack build you also want to consider being able to set the target off balance, as that + empower can greatly increase heavy attack dmg
my WW toon with oakensoul hitting a target with only empower and target being off balance can do upwards 38-42k dmg crits in a single hit (and because its the WW berserker, 50% of that is splash dmg)
How much of a buff does Off-Balance give? (Not considering CP)
And how often can a single enemy be set off-balance? I want to say once every 25 seconds, for 7 seconds at a time.
The obvious off-balance tactic is to get them concussed. I can handle that. I'm playing with ideas to impose status effects anyway, rather than leaning into a pure heavy attack DPS build. Any good alternatives I'm not thinking of? DK is one of the classes I'm looking at, but the Lava Whip way of doing it seems overcomplicated. Birds of course on a Warden, but I was looking at other classes first.
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SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »if your going for a heavy attack build you also want to consider being able to set the target off balance, as that + empower can greatly increase heavy attack dmg
my WW toon with oakensoul hitting a target with only empower and target being off balance can do upwards 38-42k dmg crits in a single hit (and because its the WW berserker, 50% of that is splash dmg)
How much of a buff does Off-Balance give? (Not considering CP)
And how often can a single enemy be set off-balance? I want to say once every 25 seconds, for 7 seconds at a time.
The obvious off-balance tactic is to get them concussed. I can handle that. I'm playing with ideas to impose status effects anyway, rather than leaning into a pure heavy attack DPS build. Any good alternatives I'm not thinking of? DK is one of the classes I'm looking at, but the Lava Whip way of doing it seems overcomplicated. Birds of course on a Warden, but I was looking at other classes first.
Off balance gives +50% to HA and some numbers more resource generation with it.
It can be put on target about 22 delay and lasts about 7seconds. (need to check it - do not remember correct numbers).
Target with off balance can be stunned and fall to the ground with HA if it was not block.
HA builds combination of (lightning glyph) status effect and lightning wall of elements for that.
Now there are a lot of sources for that on different classes.
The same tactick was used before on 2 handed weapons with dithing swing+ha.Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on September 1, 2022 9:23AM1 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »if your going for a heavy attack build you also want to consider being able to set the target off balance, as that + empower can greatly increase heavy attack dmg
my WW toon with oakensoul hitting a target with only empower and target being off balance can do upwards 38-42k dmg crits in a single hit (and because its the WW berserker, 50% of that is splash dmg)
How much of a buff does Off-Balance give? (Not considering CP)
And how often can a single enemy be set off-balance? I want to say once every 25 seconds, for 7 seconds at a time.
The obvious off-balance tactic is to get them concussed. I can handle that. I'm playing with ideas to impose status effects anyway, rather than leaning into a pure heavy attack DPS build. Any good alternatives I'm not thinking of? DK is one of the classes I'm looking at, but the Lava Whip way of doing it seems overcomplicated. Birds of course on a Warden, but I was looking at other classes first.
Off balance gives +50% to HA and some numbers more resource generation with it.
It can be put on target about 22 delay and lasts about 7seconds. (need to check it - do not remember correct numbers).
Target with off balance can be stunned and fall to the ground with HA if it was not block.
HA builds combination of (lightning glyph) status effect and lightning wall of elements for that.
Now there are a lot of sources for that on different classes.
The same tactick was used before on 2 handed weapons with dithing swing+ha.
So best possible uptime isn't a lot over 20%. So DPS increase is probably under 10% (if the 50% bonus is additive), and that's only on the heavy attack part of damage.0 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »if your going for a heavy attack build you also want to consider being able to set the target off balance, as that + empower can greatly increase heavy attack dmg
my WW toon with oakensoul hitting a target with only empower and target being off balance can do upwards 38-42k dmg crits in a single hit (and because its the WW berserker, 50% of that is splash dmg)
How much of a buff does Off-Balance give? (Not considering CP)
And how often can a single enemy be set off-balance? I want to say once every 25 seconds, for 7 seconds at a time.
The obvious off-balance tactic is to get them concussed. I can handle that. I'm playing with ideas to impose status effects anyway, rather than leaning into a pure heavy attack DPS build. Any good alternatives I'm not thinking of? DK is one of the classes I'm looking at, but the Lava Whip way of doing it seems overcomplicated. Birds of course on a Warden, but I was looking at other classes first.
Off balance gives +50% to HA and some numbers more resource generation with it.
It can be put on target about 22 delay and lasts about 7seconds. (need to check it - do not remember correct numbers).
Target with off balance can be stunned and fall to the ground with HA if it was not block.
HA builds combination of (lightning glyph) status effect and lightning wall of elements for that.
Now there are a lot of sources for that on different classes.
The same tactick was used before on 2 handed weapons with dithing swing+ha.
So best possible uptime isn't a lot over 20%. So DPS increase is probably under 10% (if the 50% bonus is additive), and that's only on the heavy attack part of damage.
Even if uptime is about 30% of time - yes - values are not to big, but on small 7seconds amount it can be a little burst.
In PVE HA builds - HA do less than 50% of damage, so even if it is 30% uptime and off balance buff is about 15% DPS to HA , values you get are less than 8%.Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on September 1, 2022 5:47PM1 -
ssewallb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭In my tests running lightning wall and a shock glyph always has lowest opportunity cost if you're not getting off-balance from a group. 8-10% damage is actually quite a lot.
There are actually still some really cool healers out there that proc off-balance on cooldown. It's worth watching out for that.1 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »In my tests running lightning wall and a shock glyph always has lowest opportunity cost if you're not getting off-balance from a group. 8-10% damage is actually quite a lot.
There are actually still some really cool healers out there that proc off-balance on cooldown. It's worth watching out for that.
I used to do that when it was meta, for the CP 1 version of Exploiter. The problem now is that not everybody gets the same benefit from Off-Balance.
I am looking at refocusing on causing status effects in healing builds: Definitely a Force Shock morph, possibly Charged rather than Infused, possibly an ice staff mainly for Brittle. Perhaps even the extreme of Serpent's Disdain.
Obviously, ice staff and heavy attack damage are in tension, unless I go to a no-resto build ... which is something else I'm looking at.
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Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Afaik OFF Balance has 7sec duration and a target gets 15sec immunity after OffBalance ends, which also happens after a completed Heavy Attack.
In addition, I am pretty sure it is 70% bonus to a completed heavy attack and the bonus damage of Resto and Lightning. It used to be 50%. I think it was U29 that changed that as well. 🤔
If you check UESP editor, I think you can see the OffBalance debuff under the buff tab, subsection "target".Edited by Zodiarkslayer on September 2, 2022 11:22AMread, think and write.In that order.0 -
Hamish999✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nobody has mentioned Infallible Mage. I think it's a good choice for a 2 bar heavy attack build (paired with Sergeant's Mail).
https://eso-sets.com/set/infallible-magePC-EUDo'Zahra - Khajiit - StamDK - AD
Narese Telvanni - Dunmer - Petsorc - EP
Anastasie Chastain - Breton - Magplar - DC
Gashnakh the Lusty - Orc - Stamsorc - AD
Stands-In-Stoopid - Argonian - Warden Tank - AD
Talia al-Morwha - Redguard - Stamden - AD
Makes-Fier-Wrong - Argonian - Stamblade - AD
Busty-Argonian-Maid - Argonian - Templar Healer - AD
Alaru Telvanni - Dunmer - Stamplar - AD
Ko'Raehsi - Khajiit - Magsorc - AD
Torhild Rock-Chucker - Nord - StamDK - AD
Drusilla Larouche - Breton - MagDK - AD
Ko'Khanni - Khajiit - Magden - AD
Ilithyia Ectorius - Imperial - DK Tank -AD
Keyboard and mouse FTW!2 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭Nobody has mentioned Infallible Mage. I think it's a good choice for a 2 bar heavy attack build (paired with Sergeant's Mail).
https://eso-sets.com/set/infallible-mage
On last patches relequin + storm master was one of the best combinations.
Some HA players had about 95-100k on it.
Infallible-mage (Aether) + Undaunted Infiltrator was first sets HA starts from, they work and was played by a lot of people and was considered as "classic ha builds". So even having better sets a lot of players use them. They pass a lot of content on it and they were promoted like good (not best stats or META) sets for comfortable play. Players close solo dunguans, trials, some hard achivments in it and even go PVP.
Some of our famous HA players already leave the game 1-2 patches ago:
https://youtu.be/G1VHiadvbqc
If compare sets - relequin has really good damage and stats. HA sets are a little worse than that. The closest set to it is storm master, that can have some little problem with activation on small adds.
Relequin is old META set, so if you try to do HA as example in Relequin + some other good META set you may be even get better numbers now.
The same time you can try to do it with the same rotation but with other weapons - now it is possible to get even better numbers. Lightning staffs are to overnerfed this patch in every possible aspects. In PVE and PVP.
And with change of HA - that is a bug, with no trace in patch notes (bug in HA or in patch notes) - HA set scale lose 25% of damage.
Even if compare it with new empower 100%+40% against (100+80)*3/4%
You get even more lose if you calculate it with CP.
HA sets already were worse than meta on LA,but with maelstorm staff and on HA can be better than that.
Now with current changes META sets can do more DPS on LA and HA than HA builds, lightning staffs become complete useless.
The most big part HA players do not really like about this is that ZOS the same time say about "Love" and "Better for US".
We do not see really any better, the same we see no love, may be love to META builds only.
All we see game lose any possible options and only 5-10 sets are only possible best choise. With such changes, game lose any variability in skills and sets.
And any meaning to play it for us.
Thats why we are only interested now: was it done on purpose or is it a bug ?
We will base our next decision on that.
Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on September 2, 2022 1:54PM1 -
Crom_CCCXVI✭✭✭✭✭Fully Charged was the key...
and as a PvPer, these were my staple since 2015 on my MagDk, especially after the massive nerfs to all DOT damage, the CC immunity, etc.,.
Now I just have 100+ pieces of Gold Gear turned to trash...0 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »Fully Charged was the key...
and as a PvPer, these were my staple since 2015 on my MagDk, especially after the massive nerfs to all DOT damage, the CC immunity, etc.,.
Now I just have 100+ pieces of Gold Gear turned to trash...
The same situation. Collection of gold jewelry for dead sets
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