ESO The Most Expensive Non-P2W MMORPG Around

kargen27 · September 2022

"-DLC (which are seperate from expansions instead of X.1, X.2 etc in similar games for some reason)
-A subscription ("Optional" but lets be real here, inventory management will be literal trash without it which is important for anyone not playing casually)"

You can only count one or the other. A subscription gets you the DLCs.

Everything else is optional and most can eventually be gained through the subscription.

If you play four hours a month ESO with subscription give you a better per hour price than seeing one movie. And that is without popcorn at the theater.

SilverBride · September 2022

Why shouldn't ESO have some cost to it?

Dracuhl · September 2022

Troodon80 wrote: »

Box price and subscription pricing is highly debatable. Perhaps it depends where you are in the world. In my case, for example, FFXIV costs around £7.69 / 10.99 € per month (for 180 day billing). For 12 months, that's £92.28 / €131.88. Updates are free, but chapters are not (until they get included in the base Standard price).

To compare, without looking at the cash shop:

If we include things like Skyshard and Guild skips, I would be remiss not the point out that FFXIV also has Hero's Journey skips for chapters and jobs.

The difference being, that for a higher annual price, you get more cosmetics included as standard -- that being, earnable in-game. While ESO has a lower annual pricing, it relies more on the cash shop. You cannot have your cake and eat it. If we wanted more "free" earnable items, then base pricing (or annual pricing) must go up. FFXIV offers a slightly more modular pricing system with retainers (which by itself is already a massive inconvenience since it's not just one big shared bank, it's like ESO's storage containers rather than just additional bank slots). If you're starting out, you probably won't have any additional retainers, but once you get more jobs levelled and you start doing any sort of end game content, even down to crafting, then you'll want those extra retainers (I tend to stick to 2 additional paid retainers).

Once you include cash shop, then generally ESO is more predatory with FOMO. Which one could argue that, without a mandatory subscription model, it needs to be in order to make money. Contrast that to FFXIV, where there is no in-game cash shop and the cash shop is completely external to the game.

However, the topic is misleading in that regard. Comparing just base game with subscription, ESO is quite a bit cheaper than FFXIV, just as an example, and definitely not "Most Expensive."

Though I dont agree with it I love your reply! A few above didnt even read the title. Yes ONLY comparing box price ESO is cheaper. But when comparing the 2 in their entirety ESO is much more. For example you brought up that XIV has job skips and chapter skips and the like. The difference is with XIV you can experience the ENTIRE game on one toon (Which you can play the base game completely free along with the first expansion). With ESO you cant play the other classes like you can in XIV which means for every toon you would "have" to get the boosts for. Skyshard skips per zone add up quick when you do the same for a 3rd alt, 4th alt, etc.

Though this in not about XIV vs ESO I will also bring up that in XIV if you are NA and make a friend in EU you can play together without needing a new character. Same thing for if you wanted to play on pc one day and ps on the other (though you would have to buy the box title again) which would be $10 where to do the same with ESO that would mean another box price PLUS everything again, including cosmetics this time, if you wanted it.

To wrap it up in summary yes ESO has to make money [snip] The same 4 horses that have been in the game since launch are the same only early obtainable mounts without anything else bought. If you bought the DLCs there have only been 3 added for a whopping total of 7 earnable mounts in game. I dont think asking for more than 7 earnable mounts in a total of 9 years, 4 of which are basic horses just reskinned, is going to bankrupt ZOS.

[edited for bashing]

Kiralyn2000 · September 2022

Hmm, let's see...

Dracuhl wrote: »

It is ridiculous the amount they try to make you pay to enjoy the game:
-Box price

I think mine was $10 back in 2016.

-Expansions

Got Summerset & Morrowind for one price when Summerset released. $30? $40?
Got everything from Blackwood back to Summerset last fall for whatever the upgrade sale price was.

-DLC (which are seperate from expansions instead of X.1, X.2 etc in similar games for some reason)

Got TG & DB for 500Cr each during sales. Orsinium during a sale. Murkmire for free. You couldn't pay me to get the Dungeon DLC.

-A subscription ("Optional" but lets be real here, inventory management will be literal trash without it which is important for anyone not playing casually)

Been playing without sub just fine for the last several years. I subbed a couple months when I first started the game, because I knew I'd be playing a whole lot.
(and, of course, if you sub, you can ignore the previous entry, DLC. And all the Expansions aside from the current one.)

-Lootboxes [snip]

Meh, not much in loot boxes that I care about. I've never bought one, Endeavors covers it just fine.

-Items that can only be obtained using a currency from buying lootboxes (Really bro? [snip])

A handful of really ugly mounts and skins? Oooh, aaah. Very very necessary for play. /s

-Mounts (You can get 4 basic horses with gold and then another like 4 from putting time and effort in the game compared to the hundreds compared to other games)

Personally, I find all the glowy mounts to be ugly as sin. And the 'regular' ones are quite achieveable with Endeavors.
(not that I've gotten any. I actually find 95% of the mounts ugly. Been using a basic black horse on all my characters but one since I started playing. I got a few fancy mounts from free lootboxes, I pulled them out once to look at them. And I grabbed a single Indrik.)

-Mount upgrades (You could do it in game. Itll take a long time because its super time gated and for some reason its per character. [snip])

I am continually amazed whenever I hear people say that they actually wasted money/crowns on these things. Why the heck would you want to do that, when you can just train in-game for gold? Blows my mind.

-Houses (They offer a few for gold that are basic. You want that awesome looking vampire themed or daedric themed or whatever house? Better fork up well over $100)

I've got somewhere around a dozen houses. No crowns.

-Furniture for the houses (Dont look at the cool target dummies just dont)

Furniture that you get in-game from vendors or crafting? There's lots of that. Sure, there's a few things for Crowns, but they're very skippable.

-Armor, weapon skins, costumes, single use dyes for the costume, jewelry, hair options, etc

I've bought a handful of 500Cr costumes over the years. And I've been grabbing them from lootboxes ever since with free gems & Endeavors. Dyes? Weapon skins? Meh. They're all pretty ugly.

-Sky Shard skips (Another thing that should be account wide [snip])
-Event tickets so when you have to consume that cool item to make a new item you can buy more tickets to get the original item back as well

These go in the same "why would anyone actually buy these?" category with mount training.

There are many though who enjoy being able to show off accomplishments from the game with a mount or an armor set not to be reminded that you are poor useless broke trash in irl compared homie over here on a store armor set with a lootbox mount in a +$100 house that has all crafting tables and a bank and a store and a transmute station in it etc.

Who cares what some other dude is doing?
(and if you want to show off your "accomplishments", then why would you care about store-bought stuff? There's no accomplishment there, they still don't have that trial skin that you got from hardmodes/etc.)

Honestly, most of the stuff you list is "a fool and his money are soon parted" junk. Not remotely "required", even for people wanting to look nice.

(and yes, I played WoW back in the day, and farmed up a variety of mounts. Wintersaber, Netherdrake, elite Raptors... still don't see the big problem. Yes, it'd be nice if there were a few more in-game mounts - like, say, one basic one of each racial type - but it's not that big a deal. /shrug)

[edited to remove quote]

Kiralyn2000 · September 2022

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Also, on Playstation and Xbox you also have to pay for Gold/Gamepass/PS+ to play ESO so such expense exists for FFXIV on console. So in reality for many people the cost of playing ESO is like $130 more than what you quoted per year.

I have to wonder how many people get Gold/PS+ just for a single game?

Dracuhl wrote:

Though I dont agree with it I love your reply! A few above didnt even read the title. Yes ONLY comparing box price ESO is cheaper. But when comparing the 2 in their entirety ESO is much more. For example you brought up that XIV has job skips and chapter skips and the like. The difference is with XIV you can experience the ENTIRE game on one toon (Which you can play the base game completely free along with the first expansion).

That sounds awful. Why would I want to do everything on one character/make just one character?

With ESO you cant play the other classes like you can in XIV which means for every toon you would "have" to get the boosts for. Skyshard skips per zone add up quick when you do the same for a 3rd alt, 4th alt, etc.

Skyshard skips and other boosts cost nothing, because why would you ever get any of them? Why would you pay to not play a game?

Dawnblade · September 2022

tmbrinks wrote: »

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

Remember when ZOS said there wouldn't be a cash shop?
Remember when ZOS said there wouldn't be lootboxes?
Pepperidge Farms remembers.

Remember when ESO was subscription only?

I remember that too.

You can't have both

I remember when they said all DLC would be included with a subscription, then gave us TG, DB, and Orsinum, only to decide that Morrowind was a chapter and not a DLC so they could sell it on top of a sub.

psychotrip · September 2022

Paralyse wrote: »

How, exactly, do players propose that ZOS raises the revenue needed every year (presumably multiple millions of dollars) to keep the game running if they're supposed to just give everything to everyone for free?

...Not to be rude, but do you really think most of the money you spend goes back into maintaining/improving the game? I wasnt aware people still believed this.

[they said I was bashing before and deleted my comment. Trying to be clear here that I dont mean offense.]

Dawnblade wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

Remember when ZOS said there wouldn't be a cash shop?
Remember when ZOS said there wouldn't be lootboxes?
Pepperidge Farms remembers.

Remember when ESO was subscription only?

I remember that too.

You can't have both

I remember when they said all DLC would be included with a subscription, then gave us TG, DB, and Orsinum, only to decide that Morrowind was a chapter and not a DLC so they could sell it on top of a sub.

Wow, I had forgotten the Morrowind controversy. when you put it like that it feels straight up predatory. It's insane how these companies slowly ease you into the grift. Before you know it, you're spending WAY more than you ever would with a sub, and you're thanking them for it.

This industry needs to change, man.

RicAlmighty · September 2022

I'll never understand the point of threads like these. If the game does not offer an appealing value proposition to you then don't play it, or don't buy what you perceive to be a poor value. I have been playing since Summerset and I have not spent one penny on the Crown Store that wasn't part of ESO+. I kept the sub for two years and then stopped it. I can still play the game fine. I've bought the new chapters on sale each year and to me the game provides a lot of value for what I've paid for it. If it does not for you , then move on. Entertainment costs money, whether it is worth it or not is purely subjective. But starting a thread complaining is not going to change a thing.

Jman100582 · September 2022

I would personally argue that pvp is p2w. A lot of the strongest sets have come from dlc, and jewelry crafting needs to be unlocked in order to even transmute jewelry which is a must if you want to perform at the highest level in “competitive” pvp (I use competitive loosely, it’s not like there’s cash prizes or any real prize for winning a campaign or anything like that)

TheGreatBlackBear · September 2022

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Also, on Playstation and Xbox you also have to pay for Gold/Gamepass/PS+ to play ESO so such expense exists for FFXIV on console. So in reality for many people the cost of playing ESO is like $130 more than what you quoted per year.

I have to wonder how many people get Gold/PS+ just for a single game?

Dracuhl wrote:

Though I dont agree with it I love your reply! A few above didnt even read the title. Yes ONLY comparing box price ESO is cheaper. But when comparing the 2 in their entirety ESO is much more. For example you brought up that XIV has job skips and chapter skips and the like. The difference is with XIV you can experience the ENTIRE game on one toon (Which you can play the base game completely free along with the first expansion).

That sounds awful. Why would I want to do everything on one character/make just one character?

With ESO you cant play the other classes like you can in XIV which means for every toon you would "have" to get the boosts for. Skyshard skips per zone add up quick when you do the same for a 3rd alt, 4th alt, etc.

Skyshard skips and other boosts cost nothing, because why would you ever get any of them? Why would you pay to not play a game?

It doesn’t matter how many games you play. The fact remains that it’s additional cost that’s required to play ESO. And it’s not a an insignificant fee either. Also the idea of ESO which is a MMO (a genre notorious for monopoliing someone’s time and attention) being the only/main game that someone plays is not that crazy. People could very well be spending 10-15 bucks a month to play ESO alone.

Nightowl_74 · September 2022

I've always thought a lot more cosmetics should be available in-game as rewards, simply because it's much more fun than buying them with crowns. As expense goes, it probably depends on how someone plays but I have personally spent a lot more money on ESO than FFXIV and that's with ESO being my admittedly "secondary" MMO. Does it have to be that way? Absolutely not, I could get by without a sub or ever spending crowns. It's a choice and everyone is different, but for me to get somewhere near the same value from both games there's no doubt ESO is more expensive. The value of a game is very subjective, but that's my perspective.

tmbrinks · September 2022

.

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Also, on Playstation and Xbox you also have to pay for Gold/Gamepass/PS+ to play ESO so such expense exists for FFXIV on console. So in reality for many people the cost of playing ESO is like $130 more than what you quoted per year.

I have to wonder how many people get Gold/PS+ just for a single game?

Dracuhl wrote:

Though I dont agree with it I love your reply! A few above didnt even read the title. Yes ONLY comparing box price ESO is cheaper. But when comparing the 2 in their entirety ESO is much more. For example you brought up that XIV has job skips and chapter skips and the like. The difference is with XIV you can experience the ENTIRE game on one toon (Which you can play the base game completely free along with the first expansion).

That sounds awful. Why would I want to do everything on one character/make just one character?

With ESO you cant play the other classes like you can in XIV which means for every toon you would "have" to get the boosts for. Skyshard skips per zone add up quick when you do the same for a 3rd alt, 4th alt, etc.

Skyshard skips and other boosts cost nothing, because why would you ever get any of them? Why would you pay to not play a game?

It doesn’t matter how many games you play. The fact remains that it’s additional cost that’s required to play ESO. And it’s not a an insignificant fee either.

Where do you stop though?

I need to have internet to play the game... do I add that cost in as well?

Things indirectly required (Gamepass/Internet/Computer Parts/Console Cost) I feel should not be included in a conversation like this.

FluffWit · September 2022

Don't understand why you're buying the smaller dlcs and subbing @Dracuhl

TheGreatBlackBear · September 2022

tmbrinks wrote: »

.

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Also, on Playstation and Xbox you also have to pay for Gold/Gamepass/PS+ to play ESO so such expense exists for FFXIV on console. So in reality for many people the cost of playing ESO is like $130 more than what you quoted per year.

I have to wonder how many people get Gold/PS+ just for a single game?

Dracuhl wrote:

Though I dont agree with it I love your reply! A few above didnt even read the title. Yes ONLY comparing box price ESO is cheaper. But when comparing the 2 in their entirety ESO is much more. For example you brought up that XIV has job skips and chapter skips and the like. The difference is with XIV you can experience the ENTIRE game on one toon (Which you can play the base game completely free along with the first expansion).

That sounds awful. Why would I want to do everything on one character/make just one character?

With ESO you cant play the other classes like you can in XIV which means for every toon you would "have" to get the boosts for. Skyshard skips per zone add up quick when you do the same for a 3rd alt, 4th alt, etc.

Skyshard skips and other boosts cost nothing, because why would you ever get any of them? Why would you pay to not play a game?

It doesn’t matter how many games you play. The fact remains that it’s additional cost that’s required to play ESO. And it’s not a an insignificant fee either.

Where do you stop though?

I need to have internet to play the game... do I add that cost in as well?

Things indirectly required (Gamepass/Internet/Computer Parts/Console Cost) I feel should not be included in a conversation like this.

Trivialise it all you want but the cost exists and especially in these times people can see it adding up. You buy FFXIV and a sub for $30 dollars for 60 days ($15 per month) and you have access to every dungeon and area. If you wanted to do that with eso you’d have to buy ESO plus for $15 per month then pay the console tax of $10 per month. The fact of the matter is if you want to have a comparable experience in the two game on console ESO will objectively cost more. That’s not up for discussion. It’s not a differing POV. It’s a fact.

tmbrinks · September 2022

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

.

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Also, on Playstation and Xbox you also have to pay for Gold/Gamepass/PS+ to play ESO so such expense exists for FFXIV on console. So in reality for many people the cost of playing ESO is like $130 more than what you quoted per year.

I have to wonder how many people get Gold/PS+ just for a single game?

Dracuhl wrote:

Though I dont agree with it I love your reply! A few above didnt even read the title. Yes ONLY comparing box price ESO is cheaper. But when comparing the 2 in their entirety ESO is much more. For example you brought up that XIV has job skips and chapter skips and the like. The difference is with XIV you can experience the ENTIRE game on one toon (Which you can play the base game completely free along with the first expansion).

That sounds awful. Why would I want to do everything on one character/make just one character?

With ESO you cant play the other classes like you can in XIV which means for every toon you would "have" to get the boosts for. Skyshard skips per zone add up quick when you do the same for a 3rd alt, 4th alt, etc.

Skyshard skips and other boosts cost nothing, because why would you ever get any of them? Why would you pay to not play a game?

It doesn’t matter how many games you play. The fact remains that it’s additional cost that’s required to play ESO. And it’s not a an insignificant fee either.

Where do you stop though?

I need to have internet to play the game... do I add that cost in as well?

Things indirectly required (Gamepass/Internet/Computer Parts/Console Cost) I feel should not be included in a conversation like this.

Trivialise it all you want but the cost exists and especially in these times people can see it adding up. You buy FFXIV and a sub for $30 dollars for 60 days ($15 per month) and you have access to every dungeon and area. If you wanted to do that with eso you’d have to buy ESO plus for $15 per month then pay the console tax of $10 per month. The fact of the matter is if you want to have a comparable experience in the two game on console ESO will objectively cost more. That’s not up for discussion. It’s not a differing POV. It’s a fact.

Sorry, just can't get behind comparing PC to Console in that way. Especially since you knew when you bought a console that you'd have that additional required monthly cost from Sony/Microsoft. It's a disingenuous argument. That's not an "ESO" cost. It's a "gaming" cost across the entire industry, much like internet is, much like the equipment you play the game on is.

psychotrip · September 2022

tmbrinks wrote: »

.

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Also, on Playstation and Xbox you also have to pay for Gold/Gamepass/PS+ to play ESO so such expense exists for FFXIV on console. So in reality for many people the cost of playing ESO is like $130 more than what you quoted per year.

I have to wonder how many people get Gold/PS+ just for a single game?

Dracuhl wrote:

Though I dont agree with it I love your reply! A few above didnt even read the title. Yes ONLY comparing box price ESO is cheaper. But when comparing the 2 in their entirety ESO is much more. For example you brought up that XIV has job skips and chapter skips and the like. The difference is with XIV you can experience the ENTIRE game on one toon (Which you can play the base game completely free along with the first expansion).

That sounds awful. Why would I want to do everything on one character/make just one character?

With ESO you cant play the other classes like you can in XIV which means for every toon you would "have" to get the boosts for. Skyshard skips per zone add up quick when you do the same for a 3rd alt, 4th alt, etc.

Skyshard skips and other boosts cost nothing, because why would you ever get any of them? Why would you pay to not play a game?

It doesn’t matter how many games you play. The fact remains that it’s additional cost that’s required to play ESO. And it’s not a an insignificant fee either.

Where do you stop though?

I need to have internet to play the game... do I add that cost in as well?

Things indirectly required (Gamepass/Internet/Computer Parts/Console Cost) I feel should not be included in a conversation like this.

I think it stops whenever the company stops getting a cut. Simple. If the company receives money from the player, then that counts as additional monetization. Thats common sense, right?

Question is whether ZOS gets a cut from ps+ / xbox live. I dont use those because its stupid to pay twice for internet access so I dont know. But thats the determining factor for me.

But I feel like we need to dispell this idea that most of this monetization goes into developer wages / improving the game.

It doesn't.

They're just using additional monetization to put more money back into executive pockets, directly or otherwise. They could provide the same experience with less monetization if their corporate structure was more efficient. They choose not to because they know people will defend them even as they're getting fleeced.

So many of these arguments rely on the premise that all this money is going toward a better experience. It's a faulty premise.

Ittrix · September 2022

[snip]

Ya'll ever played an indie dev game? I bought shovel knight. They added multiplayer for free and I got to share it with my friends. Then they added not one, not two, not three, but four new games all of which I got for free since I bought it during early access.

In the meantime eso wants me to buy the base game for 20 bucks, pay them monthly to keep the servers running, buy dlcs and chapters every few months, buy cosmetics, pay money to skip grinds like mages guild and alliance war...

Players are treated pretty poorly all things considered. ZoS has a ton of PR disasters one after another. I'm certain I'll get edited for bashing, but maybe ZoS should edit a certain dev for allowing autism bashing on their stream?

[edited for bashing]

Jaimeh · September 2022

OP, I agree about the game being very expensive, and having a problematic monetization system. The crates->apex->radiant apex->gem exclusive build-up is a good example of making a bad thing worse. However, just a heads up, you can get everything in your list except ESO+ and newly released chapters with in-game gold via crown gifting. You can also get the chapter this way after it becomes a DLC. I play without ESO+ and I can attest that it's very doable, and although inventory management takes up a lot of time, it gets easier if you have alt characters. The only thing that you can't make up for without a sub is the housing slot limit, for everything else you can find solutions. Having said that, I do think they should lower pricing for some things, especially houses, and of course scrap the crate system.

MaraxusTheOrc · September 2022

DigiAngel wrote: »

Oakensoul was clearly pay to win. I think everyone can agree on that now.

I do not agree. New, powerful items are what expansions have done for *decades.*

Paralyse · September 2022

Community managers are not game developers. They have no control over anything related to u35 or how the game is being marketed. That's like getting mad at a tech support phone worker at Verizon (for example) because you think Verizon is charging way too much for your cell phone service and you should be getting more perks and benefits . Totally separate and unrelated.

ZOS is a business, they have a right to make a living and a profit and an obligation to conduct their business in a way that maximizes profits for their employees and shareholders. For now, they seem to think that the business model of an optional paid subscription program with purchasable in-game currency is the best way to achieve those goals and provides the best balance between free and paid content.

If you don't agree with the way they are conducting business, take your money somewhere else.
Same thing if you think your money is being wasted on executive compensation instead of game development.
The wallet is the best voting tool ever invented.

Personally, I consider ESO to be an excellent value for the money spent, certainly far better than WoW. If you don't think you are receiving that same level of value for the money you're spending, why are you still giving them your money?

kargen27 · September 2022

"They're just using additional monetization to put more money back into executive pockets, directly or otherwise. They could provide the same experience with less monetization if their corporate structure was more efficient. They choose not to because they know people will defend them even as they're getting fleeced."

Where and when did ZoS make their accounting books available to the public? I would like to view them also.

LannStone · September 2022

Of all the things to complain about with this game, cost is the complaint of the day? That wouldn't even make my list.

Jaimeh · September 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

"They're just using additional monetization to put more money back into executive pockets, directly or otherwise. They could provide the same experience with less monetization if their corporate structure was more efficient. They choose not to because they know people will defend them even as they're getting fleeced."

Where and when did ZoS make their accounting books available to the public? I would like to view them also.

I'd argue the fact that chapter quality has dropped considerably since Elsweyr points to not investing back into the game as much.

markulrich1966 · September 2022

have 2 accounts on xbox, one eso+, one without.
I lately mainly play the one without, even think about unsubbing the other, as I don't really use it atm.

Bought lots of cosmetics on the eso+ account, on the second I don't, just the stuff I like most (like 2 or 3 dresses), mainly with gold from crownsellers, and seals of endeavour.
I rarely play dungeons, so bought Blackwood full last year, and high Isle upgrade this year. An advantage of ESOs modular pricing. Just pay what you really play.

Playing this way, eso is pretty cheap.
Even when I invested more, on the old account, I spent less money than before, as it saved me buying three AAA games each year, and 10-20 icecream per month in an icecafe in summer (8 Euro each).

Concerning xbox gold:
it is "infrastructure", not part of the game. I am ok to buy it, as it allows me to run ultracheap hardware instead of a comparable PC that costs 6 times more.
If you really want to include the price for xbox gold in your calculation, you also need to take the hardware cost in account (250 vs 1500 Euro, plus the electricity as PC has higher power consumption).
I indeed did this calculation, it was the reason to switch from PC to xbox after 25 years of gaming on PC.

Amottica · September 2022

Loot boxes are not necessary nor help in game play. As such, they are not relevant in the cost of playing any aspect of ESO.

Additionally, including both DLC costs and ESO+ cost is double dipping to pad the costs of playing ESO. Even the expansion cost is not required as that zone becomes part of ESO+ a year later.

So let's compare the actual cost of playing ESO without the unitary extras to FF14 and show that as far as AAA MMORPGs go how ESO+ truly stands.

ESO+ sub 14.99 USD
FF14 sub 14.99 USD

High Isle Upgrade 39.99 USD
FF14 End Walker 39.99 USD

The cost of purchasing all ESO DLCs published in a given year is less than a year subscription at the yearlong price of 139.99 USD.

So the facts do not support the claim that ESO is the most expensive non-P2W MMORPG around. Given the choice of purchasing the DLCs at a discount (not including that they can be purchased via gold by trading with a player) that ESO+ is actually quite the bargain for a AAA MMORP.

Amottica · September 2022

Dracuhl wrote: »

SWTOR is a f2p MMORPG that has the craft bag unlocked for everyone regardless if you are/were subscribed or not. It is a problem that they created to sell you the solution for and you see it as a benefit.

SWTOR is a game that is on life support and was when they added the crafting bag. It is also a game that sets fairly large restrictions on a true F2P player. Even a "preferred" player, who has spent at least some money on the game, has some heft restrictions such as being locked out of end game and limited PvP. They cannot even wear the best gear.

I point this out as that game is not worthy of comparing to ESO or any AAA game.

Sandman929 · September 2022

After the broken soul chapter, "non p2w" doesn't really apply to ESO anymore.

merpins · September 2022

tmbrinks wrote: »

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

Remember when ZOS said there wouldn't be a cash shop?
Remember when ZOS said there wouldn't be lootboxes?
Pepperidge Farms remembers.

Remember when ESO was subscription only?

I remember that too.

You can't have both

It was 15 dollars a month for the sub. It's also 15 dollars a month for ESO Plus. I'd wager at least 75% of players subscribe, so I doubt they're losing money switching to a "sub if you want to" monetization plan. Really, the cash shop is manipulative. It's designed to be that way to get people to buy things they don't need, or to fix a minor inconvenience that was built into the game to sell the fix for it. That's normal in MMOs and mobile games. We know that they aren't against doing stuff like that in a even more hard core way; just look at Elder Scrolls Blades.

I'd wager the game would be much healthier of the loot box didn't exist and you could earn mounts and cosmetics through playing the game. RNG rewards from monster drops, crafting, bosses, anchors, material gathering. Look at WoW and Runescape, they both do this to different levels of success. Achievement based cosmetics, quest based ones. Holiday and event mounts and cosmetics (more than they currently do)... If you want to get your players to engage with the game for longer, incentivize it. The cash shop doesn't do that. Or really the loot boxes don't, a cash shop can exist without it being unhealthy for the game, but with the current design, it relies on whales which is never healthy and will eventually spell the end of the game. A healthy cash shop would have those minor inconvenience fixes in there. Sure it's manipulative, but it's fine to an extent. Banker, merchant, they make sense. Selling you back stuff you've unlocked on other characters, like skill lines and sky shards, that sucks but again you can't rely on whales with that kind of stuff, and players are more likely to spend more money on stuff like that. Some cosmetics that are exclusive to the cash shop are also fine. But the extent this game goes into it is just not player friendly, and doesn't increase game retention, in fact I'd wager it decreases game retention.

Ittrix · September 2022

Paralyse wrote: »

Personally, I consider ESO to be an excellent value for the money spent, certainly far better than WoW. If you don't think you are receiving that same level of value for the money you're spending, why are you still giving them your money?

I'm not. Which is also why I'm complaining.

Ittrix · September 2022

Amottica wrote: »

Loot boxes are not necessary nor help in game play. As such, they are not relevant in the cost of playing any aspect of ESO.

I don't think you get to throw those out. It's not *required* but hey, neither is playing all the DLCs or getting the sub.
Fact of the matter is that ESO *did* put lootboxes in. They did put in a bunch of microtransactions that let you skip annoying questlines to get your skills filled out, to get your skillpoints, and to get your research done. You can't just say none of that counts for anything because you don't *need* it. They are hoping you'll pay for all of this in addition to the sub which keeps the server running and the chapters and DLCs which reward the developers for the time investment to this game.
Literally all you'd need is the ingame store to set people off in the indie dev industry.
[snip]

[edited for bashing]